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Topic: World Debt Clock by nations. (Read 554 times)

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legendary
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November 02, 2023, 08:08:38 PM
#64
Days per trillion could be a new measurement of speed.  If we compare something like Argentina inflation at 100% and their situation it might be surprising how slow their debt is yet they are in dire consequences.  The biggest difference is vast usage of Dollar world wide where as Ive never seen an Argentina note and probably never will.   Countries that have no money or no regular internal economy at least have dollar to trade and its helpful to them FIAT with utility despite its many flaws and losses.
  Perhaps if people are expecting to call a tide change they would have to guess when Dollar usage is likely to be lower, this year Ive heard multiple times complaining there arent enough dollars in circulation for them to use limiting their economy its all ironic I guess.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
November 02, 2023, 07:41:29 PM
#63
best 30second video to show how national debt works with many nations
remember the guy in middle is told he is in debt at start. then see where the money lands at the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pENxsLVR_Xs

when you look at world debt and realise countries owe each other in a circle, it will make sense that the debt numbers are just that, numbers
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
November 02, 2023, 12:44:02 PM
#62
....

A specific indicator to be honest. Lending funds is directly proportional to the growth of many other indicators - from population to investment in the military-industrial complex and economic growth. And during this period, these indicators also increased, some more and some many times. If the graph looked more informative, you should add the indicated indicators to it, and then the correlation will be visible and it won’t look so “scary” Smiley

Well, whether they succeeded well or badly can be judged by inflationary processes, unemployment rates and other indicators of the “quality of the economy.” Something that many other countries cannot boast of.
legendary
Activity: 1372
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November 02, 2023, 12:36:59 AM
#61
Quote
How quickly is the US national debt increasing?

In 1986, it took 1642 days to go from the 1st trillion in debt added to the 2nd trillion ~ 4.5 years.

In 2023, it took 92 days ~ 0.25 years. 🤯

That means debt is increasing 18x faster.

The money is broken. Go with Bitcoin


No, actually it's not as easy as taking 1642 and dividing it by 92, you also have to factor in compound interest for inflation. According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ the cumulative inflation would be 180% between those two years, and it is logical to think that they are based on official inflation data, so we can assume that the real inflation is even higher. Taking this into consideration we can safely assume that the debt is now increasing at least 6 times faster but not as much as 18x.
full member
Activity: 392
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November 01, 2023, 09:38:25 PM
#60
This is largely a consequence of covid and post-covid stagnation, where the state was forced to "print money" to support the population. Read how much money was given to the population in the US in the form of monthly guaranteed financial aid....
They made things worse exponentially since the pandemic Covid-19 but they did not make good things before the pandemic. History shows governments and central banks always make their bad management to harm Purchasing power of their fiat currencies. It happens many decades, not only started since the pandemic.

Quote
How quickly is the US national debt increasing?

In 1986, it took 1642 days to go from the 1st trillion in debt added to the 2nd trillion ~ 4.5 years.

In 2023, it took 92 days ~ 0.25 years. 🤯

That means debt is increasing 18x faster.

The money is broken. Go with Bitcoin

legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
November 01, 2023, 02:21:49 PM
#59
Two big countries, the USA. and the UK. have very high Inflation Rate Aggregated (last 3 years).

The USA: 23.67%
The UK: 32.08%
source from truflation.com

The world is covered by abundant fiat currencies from central banks but we are living in a high inflationary time.




This is largely a consequence of covid and post-covid stagnation, where the state was forced to "print money" to support the population. Read how much money was given to the population in the US in the form of monthly guaranteed financial aid....

And here is the full "ranking" of countries by inflation rate (2020-2023 +/-). Over the last year.  I've chosen countries with inflation rates above 15%.

LIST OF COUNTRIES BY INFLATION RATE FOR THE YEAR
Country / Period / Value / Unit / Previous value
Venezuela Sep. 2023 318 % 395
Lebanon Aug. 2023 230 % 252
Syria Aug. 2020 139 % 134
Argentina Aug. 2023 124 % 113
Sudan Feb. 2023 63.3 % 83.6
Turkey Sep. 2023 61.53 % 58.94
North Korea Jul. 2013 55 % 70
Suriname Aug. 2023 53.8 % 56.6
Sierra Leone Aug. 2023 50.94 % 44.98
Cuba 2023 41.77 % 44.98
Haiti Jul. 2023 39.8 % 43.9
Iran Sep. 2023 39.5 % 39.8
Ghana Sep. 2023 38.1 % 40.1
Egypt Sep. 2023 38 % 37.4
Pakistan Sep. 2023 31.4 % 27.38
Burundi Aug. 2023 28.74 % 24.76
Malawi Aug. 2023 28.6 % 28.4
Ethiopia Aug. 2023 28.2 % 28.8
Nigeria Aug. 2023 25.8 % 24.08
Laos Sep. 2023 25.69 % 25.88
Sao Tome and Principe Jun. 2023 25.4 % 23.2
Comoros 2023 20.2 % 19.9
Gambia Aug. 2023 18.41 % 18.36
Zimbabwe Sep. 2023 18.4 % 17.7
Rwanda Sep. 2023 18.4 % 17.4
full member
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November 01, 2023, 08:58:18 AM
#58
If a country's debt crisis is severe enough it can result in a sharp economic recession in the country that inhibits economic growth elsewhere in the world. Inflation is the rising cost of food and other goods and services as the government prints money to finance its spending. Austerity measures need to be imposed to help countries become debt free in order to sustain people's livelihoods. The measures taken by the leaders became very unpopular, but eventually the crisis was dealt with financial stability in the area and how to prevent another crisis. Debt burden has become a poverty trap for many countries current borrowing means increasing the future tax burden on taxpayers. Therefore developing countries have the opportunity to spend more of their annual revenue to, accelerate economic development.
  We have seen inflation rise in some of the above countries mentioned by the OP, the united state with all their money still complains about inflation. Money is created against the debt for the purpose of paying back the debt. (Insane? Yes, but this is how the system was designed.) The population then works for the money, to pay their bills AND to pay taxes to pay back the debt. The amount of money created is in direct proportion to the amount of debt created.All governments on earth sold labor forward. Example: Government promises to pay $100,000 in 30 years. Bank prints $100,000 and government spends it today. Government taxes the population to pay back the $100,000. Yes, it is insane. It is a slavery system. And it was designed to be a slavery system.
   The reason any independent country ends up in debt is almost entirely through the ignorance, corruption and/or stupidity of the people who get to control the legislative body of the nation. That applies to both the people who get elected and the people who are responsible for electing them. The vast majority of “money” in today’s world is created, completely unnecessarily, as interest-bearing debt. This has happened because the private banking cartels have, over the past couple of centuries, managed to corrupt and control governments around the world. It has reached the stage when no politician has the guts to challenge the system because the central banking system is so powerful that they will impose sanctions on any nation that tries to buck the system.
full member
Activity: 392
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October 31, 2023, 09:16:23 PM
#57
Two big countries, the USA. and the UK. have very high Inflation Rate Aggregated (last 3 years).

The USA: 23.67%
The UK: 32.08%
source from truflation.com

The world is covered by abundant fiat currencies from central banks but we are living in a high inflationary time.

full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 116
October 30, 2023, 08:08:39 PM
#56
I doubt austerity measures are going to be taken, government spending is a great part of the economy so any reduction there will immediately lead to a recession, and this is a scenario governments dread to face so we can forget about any decrease on the government spending, so what could be done to try to reduce the debt of governments? Nothing, the system will continue on its current inertia and changes will only come once the system becomes too unstable to work out, but no one knows when this could happen.
Do governments and central banks fix anything?

They do not and you need examples, I can give you the USA. and FED.
They printed a lot of money and they tried to fix it by increasing interest rate that does not fix anything but trigger the collapse of banks as consequences for increasing interest rate and inverted bond yield curve.



United States FED fund rate
World government bonds, yield and inverted yield curves.
hero member
Activity: 2884
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October 30, 2023, 04:29:45 PM
#55
If a country's debt crisis is severe enough it can result in a sharp economic recession in the country that inhibits economic growth elsewhere in the world. Inflation is the rising cost of food and other goods and services as the government prints money to finance its spending. Austerity measures need to be imposed to help countries become debt free in order to sustain people's livelihoods. The measures taken by the leaders became very unpopular, but eventually the crisis was dealt with financial stability in the area and how to prevent another crisis. Debt burden has become a poverty trap for many countries current borrowing means increasing the future tax burden on taxpayers. Therefore developing countries have the opportunity to spend more of their annual revenue to accelerate economic development.
I doubt austerity measures are going to be taken, government spending is a great part of the economy so any reduction there will immediately lead to a recession, and this is a scenario governments dread to face so we can forget about any decrease on the government spending, so what could be done to try to reduce the debt of governments? Nothing, the system will continue on its current inertia and changes will only come once the system becomes too unstable to work out, but no one knows when this could happen.
full member
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October 29, 2023, 06:14:40 AM
#54
The measures taken by the leaders became very unpopular, but eventually the crisis was dealt with financial stability in the area and how to prevent another crisis.
It is very popular and the world has many countries with government debt. It is very popular, not unpopular. Governments take action and policies that only create a crisis after another, endless. Debt becomes bigger with time and crisis becomes bigger with time too.
sr. member
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October 29, 2023, 05:17:04 AM
#53
If a country's debt crisis is severe enough it can result in a sharp economic recession in the country that inhibits economic growth elsewhere in the world. Inflation is the rising cost of food and other goods and services as the government prints money to finance its spending. Austerity measures need to be imposed to help countries become debt free in order to sustain people's livelihoods. The measures taken by the leaders became very unpopular, but eventually the crisis was dealt with financial stability in the area and how to prevent another crisis. Debt burden has become a poverty trap for many countries current borrowing means increasing the future tax burden on taxpayers. Therefore developing countries have the opportunity to spend more of their annual revenue to accelerate economic development.
full member
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October 29, 2023, 03:39:06 AM
#52
A video on the US. government debt that goes up to $32T from $16T within only 10 years.
A snapshot from the video.

Watch there.
hero member
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October 28, 2023, 03:54:21 PM
#51
Unfortunately, in today's conditions many countries are under a serious debt burden that we cannot predict or even imagine and when we carefully examine the macro data a much more serious crisis awaits us compared to the 2008 crisis. Due to the ever-increasing debts of many governments, unfortunately, every newborn baby starts their life with debt and the debts of every individual who continues his daily life (debt per capita) increases day by day. Especially considering the past years, we often saw that citizens of developing countries had concerns about the their future. Unfortunately, this has become a problem for all citizens of the world in today's conditions and unfortunately it is getting worse every day.

Economic conditions, which are getting worse day by day, unfortunately, cause many individuals to spend money on debt in order to continue their lives and we see that the debt amounts of individuals are increasing day by day instead of decreasing.
legendary
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October 28, 2023, 03:22:03 PM
#50
That's the sophisticated clock for sure and I am wondering from where the data is getting fetched. Is it the US government that is injecting this live feed? (How?) Those are remarkable figures but I am still confused about how they can not recover their debts in time considering they also have strong exponential ongoing GDP growth. That should be taking care of that but somehow I feel that's not how it works when returning the money. Moreover, since every country has a GDP to Debt ratio of almost 100% it seems that nullifies the entire competition in the economic circle with good breathing space to return the debts. It's strange how these things work but whats amusing is, if any of the countries started going towards lower debts then does it mean it will become a powerful nation and put down the US just like that?
The more you gain, the more you create debt to get richer. So lets assume you have 1 billion income, you can get as much as 3 billion in debt, so you grow and because of that debt you start to use it for making more and now you make 2 billion, now they give you 6 billion in debt, so you use that loan to grow and now you are making 4 billion income, and they give you 12 billion in debt. See how that works? They are growing for sure but because they are making more money that means they have the credit to get more debt as well and they keep growing their debt to grow their income as well.

This is what companies do as well, they do not really wish to pay all their debt, they want to make more and more debt to increase their revenue.
hero member
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October 28, 2023, 11:28:27 AM
#49
That's the sophisticated clock for sure and I am wondering from where the data is getting fetched. Is it the US government that is injecting this live feed? (How?) Those are remarkable figures but I am still confused about how they can not recover their debts in time considering they also have strong exponential ongoing GDP growth. That should be taking care of that but somehow I feel that's not how it works when returning the money. Moreover, since every country has a GDP to Debt ratio of almost 100% it seems that nullifies the entire competition in the economic circle with good breathing space to return the debts. It's strange how these things work but whats amusing is, if any of the countries started going towards lower debts then does it mean it will become a powerful nation and put down the US just like that?

Quote
If you already understand the debt of the old America then that is not different from the new America or any other country right now. No need to confuse yourself anymore.

Exactly my point, the debt of the old is quite considerate and how it came up was crystal clear. My wonder is, with the luxury of printing as much USD as America wants, how is their debt rising to heights never seen before and they still print more. One will expect their debts to reduce as they print USD.


Huh? Print the money how? That will create more debts because they cant print out of thin air. If they started printing money just like that then inflation is the bitch that will make it's beautiful entry mate.
hero member
Activity: 1694
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October 28, 2023, 09:55:03 AM
#48

Central Government Debt Map in 2022 from International Monetary Fund (IMF).
It is shared by jasonjm.


Thank you for posting the overview, it's a very interesting and also alarming website and map. How can the whole world be so much in debt? Even a country like Switzerland is almost at 50% debt levels. I can understand from an economic point of view that running some public debt is good to increase growth by funding infrastructure projects, but seeing debt levels of close to 100% feels wrong to me. How can a country ever pay back so much debt? Even trying to grow out of it and repay in the future seems very unrealistic and I wonder why the interest rates on public debt aren't higher. A big surprise from the list is Turkey, I always thought that they are struggling a lot and their high inflation rates makes a big problem for the economy. But seeing that their public debt is only at 48%, doesn't this give them a lot of room to increase debt to grow out of the inflation trap? I think that economist recommend a public debt level around 60%, which puts most countries so far above that level. Why isn't there more pressure on politicians to fix their budgets and not run deficits every year?
sr. member
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October 28, 2023, 03:03:22 AM
#47
Quote
If you already understand the debt of the old America then that is not different from the new America or any other country right now. No need to confuse yourself anymore.

Exactly my point, the debt of the old is quite considerate and how it came up was crystal clear. My wonder is, with the luxury of printing as much USD as America wants, how is their debt rising to heights never seen before and they still print more. One will expect their debts to reduce as they print USD.
hero member
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October 28, 2023, 01:35:05 AM
#46
The World is owing the World!

These debts are still in the hands of the world. When I hear countries like America being in debt, I'm forced to ask, what is a country with liberty to print as much as they want to, to finance whatever they deem fit, doing with debt clock on themselves. I can understand the debt of the then days America, when they had to borrow $100m from J.P.Morgan but for today's America, I'm still left in awe.
The one that owns the world are the humans. We already dealt a lot of damage to it. The debts are on our own hands, not in the world. But the whole country or the whole world is now experiencing it because the life now is getting tougher and tougher. Solving the debt via printing numerous amounts of cash is not the perfect solution to it, but it will only worsen the problem. If you already understand the debt of the old America then that is not different from the new America or any other country right now. No need to confuse yourself anymore.
full member
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October 27, 2023, 12:11:48 PM
#45
This is like the n'th thread about world debt in recent times which is weird since global debt has, will and shall always be a thing which the world has gotten used to. This isn't some doomsday scenario or something.

The US will simply keep raising the debt ceiling again and again and they will be fine as we have observed time and time again.
hero member
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October 27, 2023, 11:53:14 AM
#44
Country expenses is too high so the leaders of the country need to seek assistance from other so they can build the things they need for the community to sustain their current living and give a lot of opportunities to their people, we cannot avoid having this debt reason why there's a lot of country seeking it and giving those because they have some rights to have a percentage of the income if the country does not have the capability, one of those listed is my country too even the child not yet old enough they have a debt need to pay. Additionally with it is inflation that increases the price of the things you can see in the market, there's an inflation but theres no increase in the salary to get a balance reason towards the country gets more lower GDP.
legendary
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October 27, 2023, 09:51:59 AM
#43
Gold demand is the most shocking one to me, there are some rich nations that doesn't really demand gold apparently, I wonder what other method they prefer? I mean if you are a rich nation like for example lets say Norway, and you are not in the gold demand but you are in the list and have a high GDP as well, then what is it that you are requiring in that situation? They could demand a lot more gold than many other nations in that list but they are not, which means that they must have figured out something else that they could request, what is it?

Gold demand for reserves is just 1/8 of the total gold demand, at 22 million ounces is just 40 billion globally for all CB, Norway made $50.2bn just in 2022 from oil and gas, and Apple sold $205.49 billion of iPhones. Even for countries that buy a lot of gold compared to others, the numbers are just tiny compared to their whole economy. What you see in India and China is just domestic demand, people like gold, people like jewelry, just as in some parts of the Middle East, in Japan gold jewelry for example has no traction whatsoever, nor does it in Northern Europe.

As for what they use the cash for is mostly direct savings in savings accounts, treasury bonds and pension funds.
Saving money via rare metals is a pretty scarce method in Europe, and if they do they do it in the form of jewelry, not bars!

With a >135% public debt ratio, should I start thinking on moving from Spain? (definitely not to Portugal, with an even higher ratio...).

Or you could move to Nigeria, it has only 21% debt to GDP ratio,  but somehow I think this might be misleading.
Just to make sure, go to Congo, it has only 16%, I think you will have a way better life there than in Spain...

This sort of debt clock is a bit of a joke really, but it makes good entertainment for some people it seems.

It has always been like that.
If I'm indebted to you $100 000 , I have a wage of $100 000 a year but I have $600 000 in savings, am I in trouble?
I'm pretty sure Japan is taking notes about managing its debt from Afghanistan which has only a 7% debt-to-GDP ratio, I heard they are moving their entire Gundam production line there!
sr. member
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October 27, 2023, 04:15:19 AM
#42
The U.S. is still the world's leading debtor; should the US be happy that they are the world's most indebted country? The question is, can the US pay off such a huge debt of 33 trillion dollars?
The US is borrowing money from their own banks so they really aren't that quick to paying those debts plus if you are a country that has loaned to US, I am sure that paying the debt isn't the best thing you can do, favors go far more than just a lump sum payment of the debts they've incurred. What I mean by the favors is that the US will be on your good side or you can ask for a different kind of payment, you know like a military hardware to upgrade your own military. To answer your question about them paying that back, I don't think so, they're probably just going to raise the debt ceiling so they can justify printing more dollars to circulate on the global market.
legendary
Activity: 3752
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October 27, 2023, 03:57:39 AM
#41
Sounds to me like "U.S. government debt." it is more an object for mental self-satisfaction, envious of the U.S., but .... but not ready to improve their country. Look at the countries with a small national debt compared to the US. And not only in total, but also per capita. There are a lot of countries with "excellent" indicators. But ... none of you will want to move there.) At the same time, people go to the US year after year from all countries, including those where "there is no such terrible debt and no collapse ahead" Smiley Don't count other people's debts - make life better in your own country !
legendary
Activity: 3178
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October 26, 2023, 11:01:29 PM
#40
The slope of the chart which indicates the rate at which the national debt is increasing, is the scariest thing here. There doesn't seem to be any effort being made to "fix the economy" in the past 40 years, each government's solution is to print more money and the more they print the more they'll end up needing!

The even scarier part is the way the world is seeing US dollar these days as they are slowly dumping it. They are also dumping the US bonds (the debt they had bought) which is slowly but surely burying US economy...
After they printed money, they can not get it back because an economy works more complicated than simply making a phone call and you will get all money you printed back.

Their failed monetary policies only cause the economy worse. From Positive Yield Curve to Negative Yield Curve (Inverted Yield Curve), they actually pull trigger to cause many bankruptcies for commercial banks and deaths of many companies.

World Government Bonds, Yields and Inverted Yields
26 countries have an inverted yield curve according to https://www.worldgovernmentbonds.com
The idea was to basically slow it down and try to just increase the rates, which would put the money in the banks and not out in the market, and that would result with less money in the market. This would mean that inflation would slow down because there isn't money spreading to everyone, and when the inflation drops to good levels they would lower the rate a bit, which would make money go into markets slowly and gradually and they would be able to say it was a success.

Obviously, it failed and it got the inflation high AND money out of the markets, which caused a level of recession, nut a huge one but still some. This is why I believe that we are going to end up with terrible results and why this debt is so huge.
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 03:45:12 PM
#39
I remember seeing this "debt clock" for the first time a few years ago.  I wonder how accurate it truly is.  That being said I actually just had a discussion with a client the other day about the US national debt.  I stated to her that "US treasury bonds are considered the safest investment on the planet".  She sort of fired back "Oh I don't know, we have more debt that anyone /any country in the world".

What many fail to understand is this is the case because the US has the worlds best economy by far, therefore are able to have such high debt (not that I don't think it should be lowered as is getting a bit out of control). 
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 03:07:08 PM
#38
Gold demand is the most shocking one to me, there are some rich nations that doesn't really demand gold apparently, I wonder what other method they prefer? I mean if you are a rich nation like for example lets say Norway, and you are not in the gold demand but you are in the list and have a high GDP as well, then what is it that you are requiring in that situation? They could demand a lot more gold than many other nations in that list but they are not, which means that they must have figured out something else that they could request, what is it?

Maybe we could switch to that as well, maybe what they found is a lot better than gold and could return as a good idea? We need to stop asking for gold all the time because it is not really helping as much as people think it does.

Norway is engaged in a lot of external investment portfolios with high returns and managed risks. Plus, their economy is robust, which resulted in a currency that is stable enough to not need any support from a hedge like gold. I think what we can 'request' for is a country with good governing figures that believe in the importance of ethical governance that promotes transparency and accountability rather than leaders who are trying to amass as much money as they can while they are seated.

You can't have that nowadays unfortunately, especially if the citizens remain misinformed about their choices in their leaders. Norway managed to not have any dependency in gold because they have leaders who are dependable when it comes to policy making and running the economy.
hero member
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October 26, 2023, 02:51:46 PM
#37
The U.S. is still the world's leading debtor; should the US be happy that they are the world's most indebted country? The question is, can the US pay off such a huge debt of 33 trillion dollars?

Who are the developed countries? They are the ones with big debts to the central banks. And they are given loans because of the good economic performance of their countries and the high interest that they also give to those who will lend them money.

You can't run a country debt free. They are different kinds of debts like domestic debts, where countries borrow from private individuals. These loans can't be paid. It's what keeps the country going. It's not that simple to run a nation. The money required is enormous. Especially for a US government. The only beneficiary is the business or resources the lender would enjoy in the country. Looking at it, the possibility relies on the amount of money the country generates with the borrowed funds. US is a country that can easily clear off those debts if it was mandatory. Or would affect the growth of the nation. I don't think those loans are being paid with fiats like we think. Most times natural resources or products are issued to the nation in return. It's not a thing of shame. Even top rich men borrow money to sustain their businesses. Despite having lots of money. You'd see that those loans add momentum to the already existing funds. Imagine the number of allies attached to US government. Such an amount won't be a problem. It's better to borrow when you have money, than when you don't. Borrowing doesn't signify that the receiver is broke or poor. Like the perspective I've seen on some responses. As a government, they need to think 20times ahead of the citizens. To be able to efficiently protect and run the country. Remember they control the money. Pay thousands or millions of citizens; salaries. Maintain facilities that entice people; electricity, water etc. You'd see that, with the few minor things needed to operate a society, it' never, no matter what we think, easy to run a country.
legendary
Activity: 2646
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October 26, 2023, 02:47:50 PM
#36
The world is under massive debts by national governments and central banks's monetary over prints.

The website with stats for national debts, USA. state debts, Gold supply and demand by nations.

This sort of debt clock is a bit of a joke really, but it makes good entertainment for some people it seems. The debt limits that countries impose on themselves are part of good governance and symbolic of a responsible country with politicians who are trying to keep the books in balance. Anyone can spend money like crazy (look at certain countries in the middle east who have a seemingly endless stream of revenue from oil reserves) but trying to balance income with outgoings, while running a sensible debt load that other countries are still interested in purchasing, is truly the hardest part of running a successful country. It's interesting to see the stats for sure, but you're just doing advertising for them as it's only useful information to a certain point.
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 02:41:32 PM
#35
Gold demand is the most shocking one to me, there are some rich nations that doesn't really demand gold apparently, I wonder what other method they prefer? I mean if you are a rich nation like for example lets say Norway, and you are not in the gold demand but you are in the list and have a high GDP as well, then what is it that you are requiring in that situation? They could demand a lot more gold than many other nations in that list but they are not, which means that they must have figured out something else that they could request, what is it?

Maybe we could switch to that as well, maybe what they found is a lot better than gold and could return as a good idea? We need to stop asking for gold all the time because it is not really helping as much as people think it does.
legendary
Activity: 1246
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October 26, 2023, 01:05:33 PM
#34
Clearly, the US is doomed!!!
Nigeria also faces this impending doom with how much debt that the country is into. Bad leaders borrowing just for any reason when Nigeria is so blessed that we should be the country lending to other countries.

Nigeria is indebted to China heavily, then France, India, Germany, Japan.

As at March 2023, Nigeria owes $5.16Billion, higher than the figures from December 2022 where it was still $5.07billion.

Nigeria owes China - $4.34bn
France - $593.75m
Germany - $144.75m
Japan - $62.02m
India - $26.64m

 source
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 12:35:31 PM
#33
I think what the IMF map shows is that the amount of debt a country's in doesn't correlate, neither positively nor negatively, with how well the country's doing economically. The US is world's #1 economy, and it's in the most debt. The UK's also strong and in a lot of debt. At the same time, there are lots of African countries that are doing very poorly, but are in less debt, and Norway with a small amount of debt and doing really well.
I'm not saying that taking debt seriously isn't important, but debt itself clearly doesn't seem to mean much, unless other things are factored in, and an economy can be strong with a lot of debt, weak with little debt, and a lot of other things.
legendary
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Blackjack.fun
October 26, 2023, 12:29:24 PM
#32
Again one of those alarmist charts where the world is doomed, the US will turn poor, the soveits will reign supreme as....
Yeah, 89 garbage being deflated over and over!

Instead of focusing on GDP one should focus on those tiny letters no doomsday lover wants to mention, so let's look at both the current one and the 2000 chart!
https://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html
https://www.usdebtclock.org/2000.html

2000:
Debt per citizen, $19 000!
Now
Debt per citizen $100 000!

2000:
Assets per citizen, $190 000
Now
Assets per citizen, $650 000!

So, if we look at assets - debt per citizen we had
2000 > $171 000!
Now  > $460 000!

Clearly, the US is doomed!!!
Imagine your assets after debt tripling in 20 years, clearly a sign of a catastrophe, probably triggered by this wave of sarcasm!
sr. member
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October 26, 2023, 12:20:43 PM
#31
The U.S. is still the world's leading debtor; should the US be happy that they are the world's most indebted country? The question is, can the US pay off such a huge debt of 33 trillion dollars?
Most of their debts are from their own banks so they really don't have to hustle it out to pay those debts and the US government owns the Treasury anyway, I don't think that we're going to see US ever paying those debts.
We should consider that it is growing and that it can quickly snowball into a huge problem, if the country has to go to war. (USA are already funding several wars all over the world)  Roll Eyes
They've considered that a long time ago, I don't think that the debt will go in the trillions if the government knows it's going to be bad for them. Oh, they're not funding those wars, they're selling those arsenals that they've sent there, it's not charity that they're doing in those warzones, the US is doing business there, what they're funding are covert ops or rebellions because they're cheaper compared to a real war, why release all these money when you already have the weapons that you can rent to them.
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 10:10:05 AM
#30
With a >135% public debt ratio, should I start thinking on moving from Spain? (definitely not to Portugal, with an even higher ratio...).

On the other hand, one could think that colours in the "Central Government Debt Map" are wrong: why is it worse blue or green than orange?

But taking these data alone we can't know the whole picture: debt is not desirable at first glance, but it can lead to growth in the mid term if the money is well used. You could prefer to have a loan to create your company rather than being jobless, so why would it be necessarily bad for a country to have (non-estructural, if you want) public debt?
hero member
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October 26, 2023, 10:01:08 AM
#29
It’s crazy that we are conditioned to accept this, open your eyes & buy bitcoin.

This is not only debt incurred by one person; I think that the debt of most of those countries is a big debt from the World Bank. For example, my country is owes some billions of dollars on that debt list. They claim they have used the money for some project work in the state. This same government is made up of people who are not in support of Bitcoin; they don't want citizens to freely adopt Bitcoin, and as such, they would not want to invest in it unless they were doing it secretly without anyone knowing. But I get your point: if they invest in Bitcoin and hold it until the bull market, they would definitely have enough profit to repay some of those debts.
full member
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October 26, 2023, 07:16:56 AM
#28
The slope of the chart which indicates the rate at which the national debt is increasing, is the scariest thing here. There doesn't seem to be any effort being made to "fix the economy" in the past 40 years, each government's solution is to print more money and the more they print the more they'll end up needing!

The even scarier part is the way the world is seeing US dollar these days as they are slowly dumping it. They are also dumping the US bonds (the debt they had bought) which is slowly but surely burying US economy...
After they printed money, they can not get it back because an economy works more complicated than simply making a phone call and you will get all money you printed back.

Their failed monetary policies only cause the economy worse. From Positive Yield Curve to Negative Yield Curve (Inverted Yield Curve), they actually pull trigger to cause many bankruptcies for commercial banks and deaths of many companies.

World Government Bonds, Yields and Inverted Yields
26 countries have an inverted yield curve according to https://www.worldgovernmentbonds.com
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 06:29:52 AM
#27
The slope of the chart which indicates the rate at which the national debt is increasing, is the scariest thing here. There doesn't seem to be any effort being made to "fix the economy" in the past 40 years, each government's solution is to print more money and the more they print the more they'll end up needing!

The even scarier part is the way the world is seeing US dollar these days as they are slowly dumping it. They are also dumping the US bonds (the debt they had bought) which is slowly but surely burying US economy...
full member
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October 26, 2023, 02:22:14 AM
#26

The Total Public US. Debt crosses $33 trillion but will it stop there? Unfortunately, it won't stop there and we will see many new all time highs for US. Debt.

Consequently of national debts, purchasing powers of fiat currencies decrease with time like the US. dollar.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time
Data is from
Bureau of Labor Statistics – Consumer Price Index
Morris County Library of Historic Prices

Quote
Year   Event   Purchasing Power of $1   What a Dollar Buys
1913   Creation of the Federal Reserve System   $26.14   30 Hershey’s chocolate bars
1929   Stock market crash   $15.14   10 rolls of toilet paper
1933   Gold possession criminalized   $19.91   10 bottles of beer
1944   Bretton Woods agreement   $14.71   20 bottles of Coca-Cola
1953   End of the Korean War   $9.69   10 bags of pretzels
1964   Escalation of the Vietnam War   $8.35   1 drive-in movie ticket
1971   End of the gold standard   $6.39   17 oranges
1987   "Black Monday" stock market crash   $2.28   2 boxes of crayons
1997   Asian financial crisis   $1.61   4 grapefruits
2008   Global Financial crisis   $1.20   2 lemons
2020   COVID-19 pandemic   $1.00   1 McDonald’s coffee
legendary
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October 26, 2023, 01:56:46 AM
#25
The United States Government debt accounted for 121.6 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Jun 2023, compared with the ratio of 120.1 % in the previous quarter. US government debt to GDP ratio data is updated quarterly, available from Mar 1969 to Jun 2023. = Source : https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-states/government-debt--of-nominal-gdp

We should consider that it is growing and that it can quickly snowball into a huge problem, if the country has to go to war. (USA are already funding several wars all over the world)  Roll Eyes
STT
legendary
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October 25, 2023, 07:59:03 PM
#24
I thought Norway had a national wealth fund rather then a national debt but perhaps they have both.   Apparently they have invested 70k for every citizen where as USA just has the debt of owing 70k per citizen though for sure every country has assets in its favor and USA has great commodity wealth. I think the country will be fine but the currency will not, you can see how much the interest payment already rose and there is no benefit returned unlike various spending programs which form part of the GDP.

Quote
special case because USD is still considered the world's reserve currency
Before that it was GBP also very special case as an empire easily the worlds reserve currency, highly held in reserve and it failed over some decades to keep that value and we moved on to the next special case.   USA was 50% of the worlds trade when it became the reserve, nobody can take over in that fashion so I dont know who'd be the reserve next.
legendary
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October 25, 2023, 08:37:26 AM
#23
The World is owing the World!

These debts are still in the hands of the world. When I hear countries like America being in debt, I'm forced to ask, what is a country with liberty to print as much as they want to, to finance whatever they deem fit, doing with debt clock on themselves. I can understand the debt of the then days America, when they had to borrow $100m from J.P.Morgan but for today's America, I'm still left in awe.


Excellent point, USA should be considered a special case because USD is still considered the world's reserve currency by most nations on Earth (which might change soon), with many central banks keeping considerable reserves of USD as part of their policy.

USA being in tremendous debt means they will keep printing unlimited dollars, and so the rest of the world will bear the brunt of this burden as their own USD reserves will get inevitably diluted and devalued...

The organization who has the mandate to print unlimited USD will be the least affected group, naturally, until such time that USD loses its reserve currency / safe haven influence on the world economy...
sr. member
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October 25, 2023, 05:25:01 AM
#22
The World is owing the World!

These debts are still in the hands of the world. When I hear countries like America being in debt, I'm forced to ask, what is a country with liberty to print as much as they want to, to finance whatever they deem fit, doing with debt clock on themselves. I can understand the debt of the then days America, when they had to borrow $100m from J.P.Morgan but for today's America, I'm still left in awe.
full member
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October 25, 2023, 03:26:41 AM
#21
Two more charts for US debt. Post-Pandemic Debt Dynamics is terrible for US. citizens.

legendary
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October 24, 2023, 06:24:33 PM
#20
The biggest thing to look for in National Debt isn't only the size of the debt (or even the ratio with GDP). The important thing to look for is where the money is going!
You see in some cases printing money out of thin air is not the worst thing but only as long as that money is entering a healthy economy and goes into production. But when the money is being printed to cover some deficit, pay for extra costs that never existed before (like starting a couple of very costly wars), etc. that is when it becomes problematic because the government would be increasing liquidity WITHOUT increasing the size of the economy. That means higher inflation.

This is exactly why US has a very high interest rate these days. All the money they've been printing has been increasing the inflation and to battle that they are desperately manipulating the interest rates which is not working as well as it should while causing recession at the same time...

They started beautifully and essentially, and directly but "hidden" pointed at Russia, and then stupidly jumped to ... USA Smiley
I will explain the problem with your position. The US, yes I do not deny it, prints DOLLAR quite easily. But the market that consumes the dollar:
- Is the US domestic market, with actually the largest consumption of anything and everything by the entire US population.
- The DOLLAR is the currency of the world economy, which is many times larger than the US economy and consumption, and will absorb almost any amount of "printed dollars"
- The USA, participating in bringing order, where the principles of legality, democracy, law and other human values are violated, does not print money that becomes "ashes", as for example Russia does now, where about 40% of GDP (according to official figures, but not officially more), within 1-6 months turns into ashes, rust and ... corpses.
- The USA INVEST in its economy, because even "non-refundable aid" brings benefits to the USA.
- Plus, in the context of the topic - calculate the balance of the size of the US debt, and the size of the world's obligations to the US Smiley
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 04:43:45 PM
#19
All this shows me is that the fiat ponzi scheme is slowly coming to an end of life. Any system that simply creates, prints money as an antidote to spiralling debt is doomed to failure. It’s crazy that we are conditioned to accept this, open your eyes & buy bitcoin.
hero member
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October 24, 2023, 12:29:48 PM
#18
Over the past few years, debt is continuously increasing globally. The COVID-19 pandemic fueled this graph. Debt trap is a global phenomenon, and we have seen this first time when China acquired a port in Sri Lanka a few years ago. The debt to GDP ratio of different countries is on the rise, and we will see many countries default on their loans and subsequently, the lender will acquire an important strategic location or a natural resource.



As you can see from the above statistics, every country in the World has some amount of debt, and this will trouble them in the future.

With all this growing debt burden, we are looking at more and more inflation and unemployment. I am particularly thinking about the underdeveloped African and Asian countries; their debt-to-GDP ratio is on the higher side, and they are taking more and more loans to pay back their debt. They are trapped in this cycle forever. 
For an in-depth analysis of the debt trap and capitalist mindset, I suggest you read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.
legendary
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keep walking, Johnnie
October 24, 2023, 12:26:52 PM
#17
~snip
In 10-20 years, they will add a bitcoin to these monitoring sites and to pictures with statistics on countries. And then the national debt of various countries will be expressed in bitcoins. Or have you decided that if the bitcoin is accepted at the global level by all states (let's imagine this possibility for a moment), then government debts will disappear on their own? Smiley

The most paradoxical thing is that the country with the largest public debt has one of the strongest economies in the world and one of the highest standards of living of the population. This world is not subject to reasonable and logically rational assessment.
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 11:37:21 AM
#16
The biggest thing to look for in National Debt isn't only the size of the debt (or even the ratio with GDP). The important thing to look for is where the money is going!
You see in some cases printing money out of thin air is not the worst thing but only as long as that money is entering a healthy economy and goes into production. But when the money is being printed to cover some deficit, pay for extra costs that never existed before (like starting a couple of very costly wars), etc. that is when it becomes problematic because the government would be increasing liquidity WITHOUT increasing the size of the economy. That means higher inflation.

This is exactly why US has a very high interest rate these days. All the money they've been printing has been increasing the inflation and to battle that they are desperately manipulating the interest rates which is not working as well as it should while causing recession at the same time...
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 10:58:20 AM
#15
I'm not an economist, but I've read several times that Japan tested some very strange economic models in the past that led to exactly these results. In addition, I think that Japan (as well as some other countries) actually owe most of these debts to themselves, because it is about borrowing money that happened between various domestic institutions.

You can check about that on https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html on the right hand side where it says: 'external debt to GDP ratio' where you can see that of the 300% debt to GDP it has, 'only' 110% (lol) is owed to foreign creditors. In the end, the curious thing about these watches is that they seem to have no reverse gear, they are like time that always goes forwards. The debt system seems to be built in such a way that it cannot stop growing.
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
#14
It is also worth noting that all these indicators should not be taken as "everything is bad and critical".
They are indicators of :
How much everyone owes everyone else
and also
How much we owe to ourselves

Just dry figures in the perception of "they owe someone 1005008000 dollars", do not quite objectively describe the real situation Smiley
sr. member
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October 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AM
#13
I'm not an economist, but I've read several times that Japan tested some very strange economic models in the past that led to exactly these results. In addition, I think that Japan (as well as some other countries) actually owe most of these debts to themselves, because it is about borrowing money that happened between various domestic institutions.

I read a while ago about how the Japanese react to the price change in Japan and how it has slowed down their economy.
Presently, Japan has an inflation rate of just over 2% and they've maintained that rate for over a decade, but studies have shown that only a very small percentage of people in Japan will buy a product or service if there is a slight price increase, meanwhile the cost of production increases.

So an increased cost of production with no change in the price of the commodity will only reduce the profit of businesses and this affects the economy because it can either force the business to employ fewer people, pay lesser salaries, produce inferior products, discourage foreign investors, etc.
As a buyer, it's good for the individuals, but it weakens the economy.
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 09:48:57 AM
#12
Global debt has accelerated sharply over the last 10 years due to the Corona pandemic, monetary stimulus packages, and geopolitical conflicts, and it is likely to continue accelerating due to the military buildup between countries. Citizens and taxpayers often pay the price either by increasing taxes or by decreasing exchange rates (the value of the currency), so it increases. Labor strikes and the feeling that salaries are no longer what they were in the past, and this tension often leads to revolutions or wars. Therefore, all countries do not pay attention to the debt crisis, which is often passed on to future generations or borne by the middle and poor classes.
sr. member
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October 24, 2023, 09:43:14 AM
#11
Everyone should by now understand how much the foreign reserves have in store, that's not enough still, as compared to this huge deficits I can see on the chart. It has become one common norm to see the richest or most developed country in much more debt than can be repaid. Taking loans just becomes easier than using whats left in the purse or what's gotten from tax to develop or implement good projects for development.

full member
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October 24, 2023, 09:29:07 AM
#10
The U.S. is still the world's leading debtor; should the US be happy that they are the world's most indebted country? The question is, can the US pay off such a huge debt of 33 trillion dollars?

Who are the developed countries? They are the ones with big debts to the central banks. And they are given loans because of the good economic performance of their countries and the high interest that they also give to those who will lend them money.
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October 24, 2023, 08:18:27 AM
#9
Yeah, it's concerning how governments and central banks have piled up massive debts and overprinted money. I've seen those debt clocks online and they can be pretty eye-opening even here. The USA's national debt is staggering and China's huge gold demand reflects its economic strength. I mean I think the comkon thing about these two is that they both constantly adapt policies to maintain economic stability and the specifics involve complex strategies and decisions made by their governments and central banks. It's crucial for any country to find a balance and address these financial challenges for a stable global economy. I hope our country does an improvement too even at a minimum.
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 08:06:44 AM
#8

TL;DR: You ask for a loan, the bank writes a "check" for you with that amount on it, and they give it to you. They don't pay any money or give any collarteral to third parties to write the check. It's just created electronically from thin air.

All of the money from loans is technically described as credit, to you and me, it is correct to just call it debt.

Quote
The ratio of debt to GDP is much more important than the value of debt

Yeah.

And by using Bitcoin, you can opt out of debt/GDP ratios.
hero member
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October 24, 2023, 07:28:29 AM
#7
National debts have become dangerous for international trade and the economic trajectory of countries. The fact that the USA, with the largest debt, is constantly raising the borrowing limit and being forced to do so raises the question of how long this will continue. USA debt is the foundation of global trade, built on decades of trust, but this is about to lead to a dead end for capitalism. A USA default would be tantamount to the end of capitalism.

If this is not to happen, national debt must be reduced. With the pandemic, the system was severely damaged and the increase in the debt limit was a good thing for global trade but with the exit from the pandemic, it became clear that this was not a good situation at all. The dominance of the dollar in global trade is among these reasons. For example, countries started to work on common currencies in global trade as the system started to get bogged down.
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 06:55:25 AM
#6
It's funny how Russia has the best debt/GDP ratio, while Japan has the worst. I used to remember that the Japanese people were pretty motivated at saving more money, but on the other hand, the Japanese government has enormous debt.
~snip~

I'm not an economist, but I've read several times that Japan tested some very strange economic models in the past that led to exactly these results. In addition, I think that Japan (as well as some other countries) actually owe most of these debts to themselves, because it is about borrowing money that happened between various domestic institutions.

Of course, it is very strange that we see such numbers in a country where people are very hardworking, mostly very honest and have a sense of business - but since the time of capitulation in the Second World War, they have been greatly influenced by those who defeated them, and this is the case even today. I read that part of the Japanese population is even protesting and demanding the departure of US military forces from Japan, but Japanese politics is anything but sovereign and free to make such a move.
full member
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October 24, 2023, 06:52:32 AM
#5
The ratio of debt to GDP is much more important than the value of debt
Good point that I definitely agree with you.

I don't defend myself because I did not pay my attention on it, appreciate your help. After I read your post, think a while, I think that Debt to GDP ratio is for deep analysis. First with the National Debt, we can focus on countries with biggest economic sizes and their debts. After that if we want to check deeper, we can look at their Debt/GDP ratios.
hero member
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October 24, 2023, 03:33:21 AM
#4
I really like the design of those lists.
It's funny how Russia has the best debt/GDP ratio, while Japan has the worst. I used to remember that the Japanese people were pretty motivated at saving more money, but on the other hand, the Japanese government has enormous debt. China also has big hidden debts.
We might be heading towards mass government default in the near future. I don't see it as a tragedy. A mass default and a global Great Depression will be necessary for the global economy to get rid of all this debt. The world will sooner or later find an alternative to the fiat/banking/debt oriented/money printing financial system.
hero member
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October 24, 2023, 03:25:26 AM
#3
Thanks for sharing this, but without wasting time, the national debt is insignificant in most ramifications, it doesn't prove the strength and health of the economy of a nation in most cases, particularly for those developed countries. If you look closely, there's one thing that is so common in the statistics of the national debt, and that is the fact that it's the rich countries of the world that take the first seats in there.

Nevertheless, do not forget that the money didn't fall from heaven, they are collecting it from somewhere, and they are also the chief contributors there (where the loans originate from).

This means a win-win for them than how it looks on the surface.
legendary
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October 24, 2023, 03:04:51 AM
#2
The world is under massive debts by national governments and central banks's monetary over prints.

People have been excited about these numbers for at least 30 years. "The first National Debt Clock was installed on February 20, 1989" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Debt_Clock It doesn't change anything. They keep going up and the average joe has no idea what they mean except that it's such a large number that it's hard for him to read it.

It is difficult for these numbers not to increase with the growing demand for cash (resulting from the growing number of goods) and new money in circulation is issued only through debt

It's not just central banks that print. Every retail bank granting regular loans prints this to a much much greater extent. Thats how current monetary system works. Even a commercial banks can lend money it does not have ("Lend into existance")

This article explains how the majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial banks making loans


The ratio of debt to GDP is much more important than the value of debt
full member
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October 24, 2023, 01:46:58 AM
#1
The world is under massive debts by national governments and central banks's monetary over prints.

The website with stats for national debts, USA. state debts, Gold supply and demand by nations.

World Debt Clock
US. Debt Clock
Gold demand by countries in ounces

USA. has biggest national debt, China has biggest gold demand.






Central Government Debt Map in 2022 from International Monetary Fund (IMF).
It is shared by jasonjm.
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/CG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CHN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA

Two more charts for US debt. Post-Pandemic Debt Dynamics is terrible for US. citizens.



source from truflation.com

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