Author

Topic: World debt hits new record: good for BTC (Read 702 times)

newbie
Activity: 252
Merit: 0
August 02, 2018, 09:14:55 PM
#78
Yes debt can kill you more towards poverty,,,many suffers poor or rich got into debt we are all shadowed by this killer(debt). But as what ive noticed by joining campaigns in bitcoin they paid already their debts so they were so thankful by this.,but be sure to join in a legit campaign.
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 794
I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!
I wouldn't say that world debt hitting an ATH will have a direct positive impact, but in times of economic difficulties, as we saw in Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Argentina, etc., Bitcoin would be incredibly useful in holding its value, unlike the fiat currency. That's why I'm personally invested in BTC.

The weakest countries are always the first to slide, where after a while the trail of destruction will even hit what people right now consider to be stable countries. The wealthier you are the longer it takes to slide, but eventually you will have to admit defeat as country. Money that you have in reserve can delay that process, printing money to fill up gaps can delay that process, but with delaying everything you are only buying time while you know that at some point everything will come to an end. The world debt in current stage is an unstoppable force where more and more people start to realize that. Why do people hoard gold? Why do people take their money off their bank accounts and buy real estate? These are preparations for what has to come, but we only don't know when....
True, richer countries can afford bigger distortions in the market, this is the main reason why the US can print so much currency and still be in one piece, any other country that was not the US would have suffered a huge economic crises already, but while this may seem like a good thing it is not, once the crisis hit the US it will be unstoppable and it will be way bigger than if they suffered the crisis years before, so the only thing people around the world can do is to try to protect themselves with traditional investments but now bitcoin is an option as well.
member
Activity: 434
Merit: 10

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin


Government think's its not enough because they are just stealing money from people and because of that, cryptocurrency should be widely used in order for different people to have more ways of earning money.

That could be the scenario, believing it's not enough but behind that reason is definitely they have a bad intention. That value is pretty big and it is much more enough to pay the debt of the world. Well, as we all know, we can do nothing but pray that the Government will be honest to the people.
member
Activity: 308
Merit: 10
the 2008 financial crisis was a great timing for btc to be born as it gave an alternative to the banking system whereas everybody thought for themselves and provided transparency and this new record of debt may be something like a new boost of course.
member
Activity: 166
Merit: 12
Any unreported news about the stock market is positive news in the world of crypto. perhaps in the current state of the market this will affect negatively, but in general any gaps in the stock market are an ideological victory for crypto.
full member
Activity: 533
Merit: 100
I didn't know that debt is that high.
Very big numbers indeed.
newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
Price has since pulled back and is around $6,111 on Monday morning
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
I think it's hard to say which events affect the bitcoin price directly and how. One thing is obvious: in the long term, the value of bitcoin will only grow. Therefore, you need to buy these coins now)

legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1283
That's why I think bitcoin is such an interesting investment, and also a very attractive one for the long term holders.

Bitcoin is simply independent from any financial system, which is something that we don't see at all in other investments. It is also decentralized, and there is a limit on the amount that can ever exist. Not to mention that it is one of the most fungible currencies available due to its anonymity.

I wouldn't say that world debt hitting an ATH will have a direct positive impact, but in times of economic difficulties, as we saw in Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Argentina, etc., Bitcoin would be incredibly useful in holding its value, unlike the fiat currency. That's why I'm personally invested in BTC.

I've also heard some speculation about a possible increased interest in crypto from Italy, since the country is on its way to financial crisis.
If Italy ever leaves the eurozone, however unlikely it may be, it might drive people towards crypto.

This is the article:
https://www.businessinsider.nl/bitcoin-price-crypto-making-comeback-italy-political-crisis-mounts-2018-5/?international=true&r=US
copper member
Activity: 364
Merit: 4
There is no way they can repay those debts, even with the best businessman in the world as the president they can't recover. Money will be dead and a new currency born - bitcoin!
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1091
I wouldn't say that world debt hitting an ATH will have a direct positive impact, but in times of economic difficulties, as we saw in Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Argentina, etc., Bitcoin would be incredibly useful in holding its value, unlike the fiat currency. That's why I'm personally invested in BTC.

The weakest countries are always the first to slide, where after a while the trail of destruction will even hit what people right now consider to be stable countries. The wealthier you are the longer it takes to slide, but eventually you will have to admit defeat as country. Money that you have in reserve can delay that process, printing money to fill up gaps can delay that process, but with delaying everything you are only buying time while you know that at some point everything will come to an end. The world debt in current stage is an unstoppable force where more and more people start to realize that. Why do people hoard gold? Why do people take their money off their bank accounts and buy real estate? These are preparations for what has to come, but we only don't know when....
jr. member
Activity: 96
Merit: 1
Nice Trip With Us

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin


Talking about the potential of bitcoin, everyone has their own opinion and I think the latest achievement you share is very unreasonable if for the near term but for a long period of time it might happen even though I am still pessimistic because it is more likely that the potential is like speculation against future bitcoins that cannot be guaranteed to occur.
jr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 1
It is possible that the growth of the world debt will serve as an impetus for the world crypt revolution. The more debt the greater interest in BTC and other crypto, because with the growth of debt the standard of living of the population of all countries is only going down.
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 794
I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

It is good for bitcoin, but i think that at this point people don't care about this whole thing, i mean government could do whatever they want, just thinking about how we went from money backed by gold into just using just paper that has value because they said so, and because they have the power to do that, and it is what bitcoin faces right now, and that is governments have the power to ban it and potentially bring it down.
It is true that many people do not care about what the government do but at some point to actions of the governments have consequence that can be felt in the economy, just look at the example of Venezuela and when that happens people will begin to care about the actions of the government but by that time it will be too late and the damage to the economy will take decades to be undone.
sr. member
Activity: 324
Merit: 250
Most people do not even care about that, so i do not even hesitate to explain this to more people because they will never understand. More people think that USD is inmune to debt.. and yes, i am serious.
sr. member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 283

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

It is good for bitcoin, but i think that at this point people don't care about this whole thing, i mean government could do whatever they want, just thinking about how we went from money backed by gold into just using just paper that has value because they said so, and because they have the power to do that, and it is what bitcoin faces right now, and that is governments have the power to ban it and potentially bring it down.
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 794
I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

Since bitcoin is an alternative system of payments and a currency anything that weakens the current system is good for bitcoin, the problem is that even with that huge level of debt people still trust in the system and somehow think everything is going to be alright when in my opinion we have reached a point of no return where the system cannot avoid to crash.
full member
Activity: 378
Merit: 100
When Football meets Crypto

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin


Government think's its not enough because they are just stealing money from people and because of that, cryptocurrency should be widely used in order for different people to have more ways of earning money.
hero member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 596
That's why I think bitcoin is such an interesting investment, and also a very attractive one for the long term holders.

Bitcoin is simply independent from any financial system, which is something that we don't see at all in other investments. It is also decentralized, and there is a limit on the amount that can ever exist. Not to mention that it is one of the most fungible currencies available due to its anonymity.

I wouldn't say that world debt hitting an ATH will have a direct positive impact, but in times of economic difficulties, as we saw in Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Argentina, etc., Bitcoin would be incredibly useful in holding its value, unlike the fiat currency. That's why I'm personally invested in BTC.
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 260
The world debt has been there since the inception of IMF and this figure keep growing and growing until we are were we are today. I think bitcoin should be the best form of money that will be a beneficial to us and the governments if we can actually come together and work for the development of blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies in particular. The world debt can be reduced if we are using bitcoin as money because the cost of producing paper money is too high.
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 579
Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com
This is a large amount of money and how can the world will be able to pay this on instant? or they really have a plan to pay on this one?

To have a counter initiation of getting out of the debt is having bitcoin, getting a decentralized investment which isn't belongs to the debt of the world will bring us more money. They will never stop borrowing money so there's a huge impact on world's economy.
sr. member
Activity: 1463
Merit: 265
Pepemo.vip

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

It is and it will be bigger for me in this speed we could hit even 10% more in near years, 2022-25 will be crypto years and then prices will be real surprise for everyone.
newbie
Activity: 103
Merit: 0
I think it all will not affect that problem
full member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 100
Being realistic, it is going to take a lot of work and discipline to fight against debt. If you can get in the right mind set then you will be on the right track to getting out of debt.

Everything thing need welcome and appreciation so Bitcoin had that features ability when a new growth will always a best for its users and investors so this my opinion about this topic.
we should be able to see opportunities, when famous bitcoin, many people have already made use of this moment long time before that. and they are the ones who are lucky and get financial freedom
newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
Different countries facing debt and individual debts are huge problems today. Sad to see some people happy for this as it gives them  a chance to make some money.
member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 38
Being realistic, it is going to take a lot of work and discipline to fight against debt. If you can get in the right mind set then you will be on the right track to getting out of debt.

Everything thing need welcome and appreciation so Bitcoin had that features ability when a new growth will always a best for its users and investors so this my opinion about this topic.
jr. member
Activity: 187
Merit: 2

LOL..What the f*** man?? Are you like a real person or a bot or are just using google translate??!! Whatever it is, you clearly need some holding hands here.. The post is not a topic about someone fretting about his personal "debt". It's the Goddamn World debt of the governments we are talking about Roll Eyes

But great advice mate. Maybe all the state heads should learn to play a musical instrument. I would love to see Donald Trump giving short one hour lesson to his friend Narendra Modi or even Kim. Ohh wait. They are already having some music and dance classes with each other..LOL

I am as real as you. You can check by reading my pasts posts or if you are still doubtful, you can drop me a pm. In fact, going by your username, i think you are from same country as me so we can even met some day if you want. Smiley

Regarding me posting about ways to handle personal debt, don't you think it is related to government debt as well. Why do you think that governments in developing countries, go in debt quite often. This is to support fictionally weaker sections who need compensations and relief programs. If those people eliminate their debts, governments will not have to ask for loans from world bank.
newbie
Activity: 196
Merit: 0
Looking at the huge amount of debt, can't help but wonder the accuracy of those numbers. When it comes to trillions, a deficit margin of billions would be significant. If ever everything is digitized like bitcoin, it would be easier to keep track and accuracy would be greater.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1285
Flying Hellfish is a Commie
I mean, I wouldn't say this is good for bitcoin. We have a massive amount of debt right now (the us and the world combined) but that doesn't mean the world is on the edge of an economic collapse. People don't really seem to care about the debt, they're not doing anything about it and politicians have no rhyme or reason to try to stop it. If you really think about it, these older politicans have no reason to try -- they're going to die before the debt becomes a real problem or the public makes it a problem.

Who knows who will benefit from this, but I don't think fiat currencies are to blame here.
hero member
Activity: 1484
Merit: 516
The world's debt is so great I just found out,it's not a small amount right will BTC be the best for future assets or will BTC be part of the assets in the world's legitimate economy?prefer the best that will arise in the future with the existence of a legal BTC.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1159
Most of times people focus on saving money to fight debt. If you need more money than you are currently making then there are options to help gain this extra income like another job.

You need to increase your income to tackle debt. If you have time, then you should try getting a second job. This will only be until you are out of debt, but if you feel you can handle two jobs then it be a good way to save money. But if you are too tied up to work a part-time job then put your skills to work. If you have any special talent or expertise then uses it.

For example, if you know how to play a musical instrument then you can give a short one hour lesson every week to some one. Or if you are good with English, Math, or any other school subject, then you could become a tutor.

Also, please stop posting like this you guys. Otherwise, you'll soon be unable to earn any merit and rank up with such patterns of posting for the sake of completing post counts.

You will then be crying like the countless other about the merit system. Here is some advice you should take. Your language skills seem good enough but you are in the danger of falling into the other kind of trap that makes it evident that you are account farmers trying to milk bounty/ signature campaigns.

Just some advice. Your choice to take it or ignore. Peace out.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1159
You need to increase your income to tackle debt. If you have time, then you should try getting a second job. This will only be until you are out of debt, but if you feel you can handle two jobs then it be a good way to save money. But if you are too tied up to work a part-time job then put your skills to work. If you have any special talent or expertise then uses it.

For example, if you know how to play a musical instrument then you can give a short one hour lesson every week to some one. Or if you are good with English, Math, or any other school subject, then you could become a tutor.

LOL..What the f*** man?? Are you like a real person or a bot or are just using google translate??!! Whatever it is, you clearly need some holding hands here.. The post is not a topic about someone fretting about his personal "debt". It's the Goddamn World debt of the governments we are talking about Roll Eyes

But great advice mate. Maybe all the state heads should learn to play a musical instrument. I would love to see Donald Trump giving short one hour lesson to his friend Narendra Modi or even Kim. Ohh wait. They are already having some music and dance classes with each other..LOL
hero member
Activity: 1890
Merit: 831
164 trillion is huge pile of money. As per the latest data, the GDP of world is 133 trillion in terms of purchasing power parity. So the debt is increasing the GDP by almost 23%. That's a matter to worry for sure for global economics.

However, it certainly doesn't correlate with crypto market. Because Bitcoin's market cap is mainly dependent on the retail investors like us. The organized sector has not yet invested in bitcoin in a significant level. So I am sure that crypto market will remain as it is and will continue to grow.

Because this huge amount of debt is accumalted by the governments and organized financial sector. Even though banks and governments are going to recover that debt from normal people like us, any large impact on bitcoin market is not warranted at least now. Because this amount of debt was existing since last few years and within the same time, we have seen enormous growth in bitcoin market.

I believe, people will be more interested in bitcoin during an economic slowdown because bitcoin and crypto market is usually not influenced by the governments.

I do think that more or so government will somehow allow the Bitcoins to help them strengthen their economy since there are so many people involved in here in Bitcoins that they really could use all the sources that they have .

This economic slowdown could prove to be beneficial for us as a whole and help the market to intervene with the traditional ones making it stronger.
member
Activity: 238
Merit: 11
It is kind of sad to think of that government sees that huge pile of money is still small enough and continues to borrow even more money. Seriously, if they all died and still have not managed to fix issues of debt, younger generations will have to suffer.
It is important to definitely take the worth on everything and efficiently expend money individually.
jr. member
Activity: 187
Merit: 2
You need to increase your income to tackle debt. If you have time, then you should try getting a second job. This will only be until you are out of debt, but if you feel you can handle two jobs then it be a good way to save money. But if you are too tied up to work a part-time job then put your skills to work. If you have any special talent or expertise then uses it.

For example, if you know how to play a musical instrument then you can give a short one hour lesson every week to some one. Or if you are good with English, Math, or any other school subject, then you could become a tutor.
full member
Activity: 479
Merit: 100
Enter the future of gaming
That's true this situation is good for bitcoin, when this frail system begins to collapse people will rush into bitcoin in order to protect their savings which will, in turn, drive the price of btc up drastically.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
What the economists have shrewdly achieved is to paint these "tools" of taxation and interest as some sort of holy grail for constant growth. When constant growth and consumerism shouldn't even be the sole target of societies.

Chasing perpetual growth is the fundamental flaw in modern economics.  If you proposed a new perpetual motion machine to a physicist, prepare to be laughed out of the room.  But talk about perpetual growth to an economist and suddenly you're perfectly sane and rational.  It's farcical.  There's no sense to it at all.  Clearly the only way to support perpetual growth is to have perpetual debt, which makes both things purely conceptual abstractions.  Effectively just meaningless numbers.  IOUs enforced by authority.  But that's not a revelation.  We already know this.  It's just that no one wants to admit it because it might make society crumble if everyone understood the reality.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
member
Activity: 238
Merit: 10
 it may actually be good for btc but not for humanity. because when the economical crises has rused slot , after that big war will follow this. unfortunately it always had happenned in the pass and will be in the future. We don't have to pray for an economic crisis but rather find ways to save yourself from it.  I think the best way is making use of bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1159
Because you  don't have instruments to controll the monetary system. Deflation can be way more harmfull then the inflation. It will completely kill the macro economy of the country. Economists have to struggle it.
Controlling the monetary system is very much a Bretton-woods invention. World economy had been running through the years when you did not have these 'monetary controls', albeit with crashes and depressions. Crashes still happen today.  The problem is, economists have convinced themselves and the world that this model works the best. Even when there is an alternative emerging for the taking, they are more interested in disparaging it than actually informing the media and public about both sides. It's a battle of perception than a case of one being superior over other.

A capped reserve gives much less wiggle room to central banks(like the Federal Reserve) forcing them, the Politicians and the Investment bankers on their management boards to actually do their job. While with an unlimited reserve, you can always "Quantitatively Ease" your way out of any fuck-up.
Bretton-woods system ahould ba able to clear the mess after the hard times and make economies more connected with each other. At the 2nd half of the XX sentury economic science was way more developped then it was years ago, it became an established science rather then just an exchange. Economists started using different econometric tricks that did not exist before.
First, Economies have so many variables ranging from the social, psychological and political that economics cannot really be considered "Science". It is still very much a "Social Science"; a Humanities topic, if you will.
You used the phrase 'econometric tricks'. The same thing as "Financial Engineering". Money is ultimately about power and control. The power to control taxation and interest for governance. What the economists have shrewdly achieved is to paint these "tools" of taxation and interest as some sort of holy grail for constant growth. When constant growth and consumerism shouldn't even be the sole target of societies.

The real problem of US economy (as highly affects the global economy) is welfare. This is a huge beast and politicians still keep feeding it (and probably will continue doing it). Insane amounts of money are wasted for nothing. If anyone think that the current global economical system works bad then he can eliminate welfare before dealing with the other things.

This seems to be coming from the laissez-faire, anti-welfare school. I don't think there is anything wrong with welfare as long as it is not used for political gains. The problem is that this "insane amount of money" has no basis and no accountability.
Imagine a country where all "welfare allocations" were transparent on the blockchain and every single Satoshi spent was accounted for. There won't be an unlimited amount to allocate because, well, you won't have an unlimited reserve currency to fall back on.

Right now, it's fair game for all sort of organisations that take their share of the pie from the debt financed US budget. The money goes in and nothing comes out. That debt-financed money ultimately reaches the top 1% of people via their companies. The burden of debt is borne by the middle classes in the form of higher taxes, higher inflation.
A transparent, decentralized currency is quite a solution for this whole problem. We never hear the media talk about that. The economists are free to wax eloquent about "fiscal policy", "monetary policy", quantitative easing" and what not. Fancy terms to make people realize that it's all too complicated and the trio of Govts, Banks and Businesses is doing a fine job.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1283
I'm not entirely sure of the correlation.. although debt.. particularly nations debt is a subject that fascinated me but also confuses me. I don't think there will ever be some huge sway to crypto due to a mistrust in traditional finacial systems.

There is already an impact do to mistrust in financial systems, just look at the trading volume increase that's happening in Venezuela right now.
that's fully due to mistrust in their local financial system, the same thing could easily happen in other countries.

Bitcoin could easily replace gold as a safe store of value in the future and I'm sure there are already many people who have switched over.

It's not called digital gold for nothing...
sr. member
Activity: 547
Merit: 250
And in the end again the average person will be screwed and the banks will walk away with billions...
Watch the movies "Inside Job", its really good one.
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 103

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

I think that this moment will soon come, if it is certainly not yet coming. Now the governor will start paying attention to crypto-currencies, and most likely will make decisions.
full member
Activity: 350
Merit: 125
I'm not entirely sure of the correlation.. although debt.. particularly nations debt is a subject that fascinated me but also confuses me. I don't think there will ever be some huge sway to crypto due to a mistrust in traditional finacial systems.
full member
Activity: 364
Merit: 106
The world debt is increasing every year but actually, that is not becaise of the continuous lending or borrowing of money. It is in fact, because most borrowers tends to fail to pay the interest of their borrowed money, thus, it is being accumulated into a great sum of, well, debt. It is true the paper money is already losing its value. Tje only reason that our economy can still stand is because of the inflation and when this is over, we are going to need to look for another means of currency. That is where the relationship between the world debt and cryptocurrency's kicks in.

For a better understanding about this, you can read this article, http://www.businessinsider.com/deutsche-bank-end-of-fiat-money-2017-11?r=UK&IR=T .
hero member
Activity: 2702
Merit: 716
Nothing lasts forever
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers
$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

Wow  Shocked $164 Trillion is really a big number and i think things are going to worsen in coming years because the GDP is increasing at a rapid speed by almost 22.7% and we need to think on this issue of global economics. Even though Bitcoin and crypto market has nothing connected to it because it is decentralized and till now there is no governing body connected to it and In fact, i would see the cryptomarket growing side by side. But if there is a huge amount of participation in the crypto market and if the government plans to regulate and use the cryptomarket then the debt can decrease to a certain extent which is a good sign.
full member
Activity: 924
Merit: 148
Because you  don't have instruments to controll the monetary system. Deflation can be way more harmfull then the inflation. It will completely kill the macro economy of the country. Economists have to struggle it.
Controlling the monetary system is very much a Bretton-woods invention. World economy had been running through the years when you did not have these 'monetary controls', albeit with crashes and depressions. Crashes still happen today.  The problem is, economists have convinced themselves and the world that this model works the best. Even when there is an alternative emerging for the taking, they are more interested in disparaging it than actually informing the media and public about both sides. It's a battle of perception than a case of one being superior over other.

A capped reserve gives much less wiggle room to central banks(like the Federal Reserve) forcing them, the Politicians and the Investment bankers on their management boards to actually do their job. While with an unlimited reserve, you can always "Quantitatively Ease" your way out of any fuck-up.
Bretton-woods system ahould ba able to clear the mess after the hard times and make economies more connected with each other. At the 2nd half of the XX sentury economic science was way more developped then it was years ago, it became an established science rather then just an exchange. Economists started using different econometric tricks that did not exist before.
The real problem of US economy (as highly affects the global economy) is welfare. This is a huge beast and politicians still keep feeding it (and probably will continue doing it). Insane amounts of money are wasted for nothing. If anyone think that the current global economical system works bad then he can eliminate welfare before dealing with the other things.
hero member
Activity: 2366
Merit: 793
Bitcoin = Financial freedom
Meanwhile market cap for all crypto still 0.36 trillion, and bitcoin 0.14 trillion.. what a gap!
And mainstream media echoing about bubble in crypto

I think bubble is in fiat!  Grin

The borrow from many sites will give an insecure feel for all investors and it cause a big disadvantage for crypto currency and cause huge loss and fall in the value of it.
copper member
Activity: 2324
Merit: 2142
Slots Enthusiast & Expert
Meanwhile market cap for all crypto still 0.36 trillion, and bitcoin 0.14 trillion.. what a gap!
And mainstream media echoing about bubble in crypto

I think bubble is in fiat!  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 259
If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Let's think different a little.
If it will be a crash, I think that Bitcoin pricing will also drop a lot.
Basically the price of Bitcoin is how much people want to pay for it.
If there's a crash, people would sell Bitcoin and stocks to cover other needs.
We've seen already Bitcoin falling just before the stocks have fallen too. Many use Bitcoin in a similar way to stocks.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. But.. what if I'm right?
I think that's better for everybody, for now, to not pray for a new crisis.

It's really vary, because you are talking here about different aspects.
If the price of USD goes down, it is no longer an indicator to bitcoin's price, and we will need to indicate bitcoin's price with a more stable currency or even an asset such as gold.
I am pretty sure that the purchasing power of 1BTC will skyrocket(and will even more skyrocket if we compare it to the falling currency of USD).
full member
Activity: 392
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That’s why the theory of www||| is in discussion nowadays it is meanly because the financial crisis is on our door knocking. USA is in full movement to hide this buy bombing Syria even with the threat of Russia.

With the big dept of America to China the reality is Uncle Sam is dying and in verge of passing the slogan “The great country” goes to an Asian country member.

I do believe that in the fall of fiat currency will emerge the bitcoin currency as at the center.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 259
It's still confusing how this will affect bitcoin expect if you means, that the government will probably 'borrow' peoples' money unknowingly in the bank to clear up their debts. Isn't that what they often do? It's not about borrowing the money that's the main concern, but paying people their required interest when done. I personally had nor needed a motivator to tell me to invest in bitcoin.

Huge debt means less trust in the traditional currencies and economy which means higher chances of getting your currency dropped.
People who knows about this risk may decide to put a part of their money in exotic currencies such as bitcoin, which may resulted in an increase in bitcoin's price.
Assets are going to be those who profits in case of currency explode as they are not directly connected to traditional currencies beside trading against them.
legendary
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Two important parts of the article:
Quote
High levels of sovereign debt could make it difficult for governments to refinance when their debt reaches maturity, especially if financing conditions tighten, the IMF said. Large debts also impede the ability of nations to increase spending if their economies fall into recession, and may cause a drag on growth
If governments cannot refinance their debts, the burden eventually falls on public spending. On education, healthcare and infrastructure. This upward spiral of debt and downward spiral of "funds available for the tax-payer" are directly related.

Quote
The combination of last year’s tax cuts and increased government spending in a recent U.S. budget deal will benefit all income groups, the IMF said. However, those in the top quintile of incomes would benefit the most, followed by those in the bottom quintile, the fund said. As a result, the measures may contribute to the further “hollowing out” of middle-class incomes, it said.
Bitcoin supporters have been saying this for long enough. Creative firefighting measures made possible by an unlimited, inflationary currency will  ultimately, always take their toll on the middle class.
How is this fair?? Why do we keep hearing arguments AGAINST a capped reserve currency with comparisons made to the gold standard and effectively no noise against this tiger of unlimited debt that the governments keep riding at the expense of middle classes. Any economists listening to this?



Have you read this Book, "Why we want you to be rich" - by Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki

The book warns the reader that the American middle class strata is shrinking due to multiple factors including oncoming retirement of the baby boomers, rising costs of light crude oil, decreasing employer pay to employees, increasing national debt of the United States, and a declining power of the United States dollar. Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Want_You_to_Be_Rich

Rich people know that the middle class must survive for them to survive.

Governments all around the world have tapped out most of the rich people in their countries already and the lion share of taxes are being dumped onto the middle class now. This is why more and more people are moving from being middle class to being poor.



legendary
Activity: 1904
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How is this fair?? Why do we keep hearing arguments AGAINST a capped reserve currency with comparisons made to the gold standard and effectively no noise against this tiger of unlimited debt that the governments keep riding at the expense of middle classes. Any economists listening to this?
Because you  don't have instruments to controll the monetary system. Deflation can be way more harmfull then the inflation. It will completely kill the macro economy of the country. Economists have to struggle it.
Controlling the monetary system is very much a Bretton-woods invention. World economy had been running through the years when you did not have these 'monetary controls', albeit with crashes and depressions. Crashes still happen today.  The problem is, economists have convinced themselves and the world that this model works the best. Even when there is an alternative emerging for the taking, they are more interested in disparaging it than actually informing the media and public about both sides. It's a battle of perception than a case of one being superior over other.

A capped reserve gives much less wiggle room to central banks(like the Federal Reserve) forcing them, the Politicians and the Investment bankers on their management boards to actually do their job. While with an unlimited reserve, you can always "Quantitatively Ease" your way out of any fuck-up.

$164 trillion in deficit and debt is much more dangerous to national security and the welfare of the public than terrorists "laundering money" via bitcoin. Unfortunately deficit and debt are unlikely to be acknowledged as a legitimate issue as it empowers wealth redistribution and makes it easier for the rich to become richer at the expense of everyone else.

The agenda based media has been discussing a "bitcoin bubble" when in reality they would discuss a "global debt bubble" if they did their jobs and reported on real issues which affect you and I.

If economists like Robert Shiller and Paul Krugman did their jobs they would be warning the public about the negative long term consequences $164 trillion in global debt can have on everyone. Unfortunately, they don't seem to do anything unless they get paid for it. And there appear to be many who will pay for them to *invent* negative stories about bitcoin, rather than report on legitimate issues.

Exactly! This is what we are talking about. Why can't there be a real debate on these topics:

  • How much "wiggle room" for monetary control do the central banks, governments and businesses need?
  • Why should it at be at expense of middle classes and their lives' savings??
  • Why should the rich keep getting richer while the public expenditures on welfare measures for the poorest are forced to cut beyond recognition in the name of austerity measures??

When you create a circle-jerk where businesses, politicians and central banks are only interested in keeping each other protected, you will never have enough 'budget' to help the poor. Demagoguery based democracies like India and USA, with their humongous disparity are a prime example of this phenomena.
member
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Yes, I do think it is good for bitcoin (and metals like gold and silver).

Any libertarian and/or enthusiast of austrian economics should agree with that. Government keep printing money to sustain such artificial levels, destroying the purchasing power of Dollar and other currencies (mainly EUR)  and when you look at what really matters, like producitivy, we are nothing seeing any progress within years.

Bitcoin fits really well against such manipulation and as hedge of government-shit.
member
Activity: 168
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An alternative market appears, at least its core. I think that when the next reserve currency system is developed, it will be digital now almost all the major national banks are implementing blocking technologies and various crypto-currencies in their business models.
sr. member
Activity: 994
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

All the world economy is based on debt so I'm not really surprised to see that number, the governments of the world think that they can keep borrowing money without any kind of backlash, but that is simply impossible in fact if you remember bitcoin was created just a few weeks after an economic crash and when a economic crash happens again bitcoin popularity will go up exponentially.
full member
Activity: 406
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I dont see any correlation beteeen the world debt to bitcoin. Every country looks at debt in a way to sustain their countries projects and also as form of alliance between countries. $164 is an awful lot of debt.

Bitcoin on the other hand boasts for its 21m supply. The closer we get to that last coin mined, the higher the price of bitcoin becomes.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441
$164 trillion in deficit and debt is much more dangerous to national security and the welfare of the public than terrorists "laundering money" via bitcoin. Unfortunately deficit and debt are unlikely to be acknowledged as a legitimate issue as it empowers wealth redistribution and makes it easier for the rich to become richer at the expense of everyone else.

The agenda based media has been discussing a "bitcoin bubble" when in reality they would discuss a "global debt bubble" if they did their jobs and reported on real issues which affect you and I.

If economists like Robert Shiller and Paul Krugman did their jobs they would be warning the public about the negative long term consequences $164 trillion in global debt can have on everyone. Unfortunately, they don't seem to do anything unless they get paid for it. And there appear to be many who will pay for them to *invent* negative stories about bitcoin, rather than report on legitimate issues.
full member
Activity: 924
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I wish OP could bother himself by clerifying why the collapse of the world economy is good for bitcoin. We are stil living in the real economy and buying everything for fiat money. I havent seen someone proving the corellation between BTC price and USD devaluation and nothing guarantees that cryprocurrencies will become more established after the collapse of the world economy.

How is this fair?? Why do we keep hearing arguments AGAINST a capped reserve currency with comparisons made to the gold standard and effectively no noise against this tiger of unlimited debt that the governments keep riding at the expense of middle classes. Any economists listening to this?
Because you  don't have instruments to controll the monetary system. Deflation can be way more harmfull then the inflation. It will completely kill the macro economy of the country. Economists have to struggle it.
full member
Activity: 686
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I don’t see how this is good for BTC, or good for anyone in fact. If the world debt continues to increase and the government is unable to spend, then this would affect everyone even for those who use bitcoin and maybe bitcoin itself will get affected badly. When it reaches up to the point where the govrnment runs out for public spending  then many sectors of society will be affected such as education, infrastucture, industries etc. then shit hits the fan when this happens.
hero member
Activity: 1330
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin


The rulers and managers of the economies of this world are good at one thing which is breaking new records and this is another one to be joyous about. It is not also not an informed choice to blame the leaders alone because in most societies, its always because of the people that this money are being borrowed. Over here, citizens complained of no good roads, electricity, hospitals but they cannot cough out all the needed funds in terms of taxes and government would be insensitive to tax citizens such huge amount. Any government that tries that, wont win during the next election so they are left with no other choice than to borrow, and when they do that and we have to incur debt for the upcoming generations, same people will clamor on what the money borrowed is being used for.

Now to bitcoin, I still don't see how bitcoin would come to save the day in this kind of situation because its not free money, so also does not mean that to perform all of the functions above, they won't borrow, neither will they tax their citizens to death or because of that the citizens stop asking for more, its still going to be the same situation all over again.
legendary
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Stocks are nothing more than an investment tool. Bitcoin is a multifunctional tool, and is something that you don't necessarily need to convert to fiat in order to sustain yourself. If merchant adoption picks up in the forthcoming years, and that will very likely happen with LN, people are able to conveniently do grocery shopping, pay bills with Bitcoin, etc. The difference between Bitcoin as investment tool and a currency tool won't endlessly remain as massive as it might be right now. Stability, or something close to that will do miracles. It takes time, I know, but everything takes time in the end.

At some point there will be a time where you have to pay a nasty, like really nasty premium in order to convince people to sell their coins to you for fiat.

Indeed, there will come such a time. But until then Bitcoin is not strong enough. You are right in theory, but imho the reality is not like that, not yet.
"If merchant adoption picks up in the forthcoming years".. contains two big keywords: IF and YEARS. And you also admitted it takes time.
In that time is quite likely the world will face more than one crisis, and the first one will not be nice with us either.
member
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BountyMarketCap
is this the beginning of the government start legalizing bitcoin and start investing in bitcoin for their benefit and also the state? of course this is good news, because along with the demands on the bitcoin that keeps increasing, then the price will keep at the pump.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
If there's a crash, people would sell Bitcoin and stocks to cover other needs.
We've seen already Bitcoin falling just before the stocks have fallen too. Many use Bitcoin in a similar way to stocks.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. But.. what if I'm right?

Stocks are nothing more than an investment tool. Bitcoin is a multifunctional tool, and is something that you don't necessarily need to convert to fiat in order to sustain yourself. If merchant adoption picks up in the forthcoming years, and that will very likely happen with LN, people are able to conveniently do grocery shopping, pay bills with Bitcoin, etc. The difference between Bitcoin as investment tool and a currency tool won't endlessly remain as massive as it might be right now. Stability, or something close to that will do miracles. It takes time, I know, but everything takes time in the end.

At some point there will be a time where you have to pay a nasty, like really nasty premium in order to convince people to sell their coins to you for fiat.
hero member
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actually it may good for btc but not for humanity. because when the economical crises has raised , after that big war will follow this. unfortunately it always had happenned in the back and will be in the future.
so without peaceful world richness is nothing.  Undecided
nice point there,being rich wont save anyone in war..so i guess this will only strengthen the cryptocurrency but not the whole community..but eventhough i still betting for bitcoin and willing to buy much more if having another funds.
newbie
Activity: 89
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actually it may good for btc but not for humanity. because when the economical crises has raised , after that big war will follow this. unfortunately it always had happenned in the back and will be in the future.
so without peaceful world richness is nothing.  Undecided
legendary
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If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Let's think different a little.
If it will be a crash, I think that Bitcoin pricing will also drop a lot.
Basically the price of Bitcoin is how much people want to pay for it.
If there's a crash, people would sell Bitcoin and stocks to cover other needs.
We've seen already Bitcoin falling just before the stocks have fallen too. Many use Bitcoin in a similar way to stocks.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. But.. what if I'm right?
I think that's better for everybody, for now, to not pray for a new crisis.
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 100
The debt is moving upwards. As reported by IIF that’s a $16 trillion increase on debt levels at the end of 2016 and more than three times the size of the global economy. According to the IIF, $68 trillion belongs to non-financial companies and $63 trillion to governments. Ask this question who is this money owed to then the ans is 'We people'. So if the world government fail they print the money and pays to the lenders causing hyperrinflation. Bitcoin does not have elastic supply and thus cant be cheated. Bitcoin will be the most trusted currency in the coming years.

newbie
Activity: 69
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Maybe by the used of bitcoin all debts from government would soon disappear, because I see the quality of bitcoin and their value as an instrument which used to solve all debts from governments.
sr. member
Activity: 476
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April 19, 2018, 06:47:19 AM
#9
The debt keeps on moving upward, but it's still not going to prevent the US to keep printing money.
I beleive that soon enough there are going to be some steps to prevent this rapid grow in the debt rate, but it's only going to block a part of the increase rate and we are still going to suffer from the debt.
Only a massive scale crash can solve this debt problem , like we had in 2008, it was a crazy year for the financial system.
hero member
Activity: 3164
Merit: 937
April 19, 2018, 06:33:37 AM
#8
I think it is good yes. The more they print the more money there is that can go into BTC. I think btc is designed to suck up fiat and well this is happening! Lets see what happens but I can see bitcoin coming out kind in a hyper inflationary environment

No.It isn`t happening.The bitcoin price isn`t growing fast and there`s no huge army of newbies,who buy bitcoins for the first time in their lifes.The banksters will try to control the crypto markets and,if they can`t,they will just force the governments to mass ban all cryptocurrencies.
The world debt represents the desire of all governments and nations to pump their economic growth on steroids.It`s just money, that we borrow from our children. Sad
member
Activity: 238
Merit: 11
April 19, 2018, 06:13:28 AM
#7
Policy and cryptocurrency thing principle incompatible. The main feature of bitcoin is its decentralization. Bitcoin was created as a free currency. Bitcoin was created in 2008. And who remembers how many years there is a world debt? The difference between GDP and debt was but it had acceptable norms. Recently, debt is increasing and this gap is growing. And how can you have "spent" the money you converted to bitcoin?
jr. member
Activity: 60
Merit: 4
April 19, 2018, 06:01:57 AM
#6
I think it is good yes. The more they print the more money there is that can go into BTC. I think btc is designed to suck up fiat and well this is happening! Lets see what happens but I can see bitcoin coming out kind in a hyper inflationary environment
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1159
April 19, 2018, 05:47:00 AM
#5
Two important parts of the article:
Quote
High levels of sovereign debt could make it difficult for governments to refinance when their debt reaches maturity, especially if financing conditions tighten, the IMF said. Large debts also impede the ability of nations to increase spending if their economies fall into recession, and may cause a drag on growth
If governments cannot refinance their debts, the burden eventually falls on public spending. On education, healthcare and infrastructure. This upward spiral of debt and downward spiral of "funds available for the tax-payer" are directly related.

Quote
The combination of last year’s tax cuts and increased government spending in a recent U.S. budget deal will benefit all income groups, the IMF said. However, those in the top quintile of incomes would benefit the most, followed by those in the bottom quintile, the fund said. As a result, the measures may contribute to the further “hollowing out” of middle-class incomes, it said.
Bitcoin supporters have been saying this for long enough. Creative firefighting measures made possible by an unlimited, inflationary currency will  ultimately, always take their toll on the middle class.
How is this fair?? Why do we keep hearing arguments AGAINST a capped reserve currency with comparisons made to the gold standard and effectively no noise against this tiger of unlimited debt that the governments keep riding at the expense of middle classes. Any economists listening to this?

Ctn
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 259
April 19, 2018, 05:31:36 AM
#4
Yes, I agree there's no direct relation but it shows the real economy, the economy we're living in is built on debt. In several countries, debt is larger than GDP, more and more economists think that this is just too much, it will never be paid back...

On the other hand, BTC, with its limited supply, will only be stronger and stronger.

That could happen only if the government allows us to use it legally or the government itself acquire control over the BTC. The net effect would be splitting of the money in the form of bitcoin as we go on dumping billions of dollars into it. The more use of it the more is the redirected flow of the same into the BTC.

Off course this will increase huge demand of the same and decreased supply causing the market to pump heavily in zero time. But that is one of the reason why government doesnt allow the direct use of BTC or why they are trying to restrict it at many places. The national economy gets disturbed with it no matter what you say about it.
legendary
Activity: 3066
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Your country may be your worst enemy
April 19, 2018, 05:00:26 AM
#3
Yes, I agree there's no direct relation but it shows the real economy, the economy we're living in is built on debt. In several countries, debt is larger than GDP, more and more economists think that this is just too much, it will never be paid back...

On the other hand, BTC, with its limited supply, will only be stronger and stronger.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1500
April 18, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
#2
164 trillion is huge pile of money. As per the latest data, the GDP of world is 133 trillion in terms of purchasing power parity. So the debt is increasing the GDP by almost 23%. That's a matter to worry for sure for global economics.

However, it certainly doesn't correlate with crypto market. Because Bitcoin's market cap is mainly dependent on the retail investors like us. The organized sector has not yet invested in bitcoin in a significant level. So I am sure that crypto market will remain as it is and will continue to grow.

Because this huge amount of debt is accumalted by the governments and organized financial sector. Even though banks and governments are going to recover that debt from normal people like us, any large impact on bitcoin market is not warranted at least now. Because this amount of debt was existing since last few years and within the same time, we have seen enormous growth in bitcoin market.

I believe, people will be more interested in bitcoin during an economic slowdown because bitcoin and crypto market is usually not influenced by the governments.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
April 18, 2018, 11:00:49 AM
#1

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin
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