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Topic: World risk - global (Read 543 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 286
May 12, 2021, 02:10:24 AM
#62
Well for me, --most of the climate, environment, science are actually the real risk we had to be ready for. As this is very much uncontrollable right away. Comparing it to massive destruction, proper negotiation, and avoiding international conflict could avoid, nature which won’t really give as much mercy if in case it happens. It would also affect all of the sectors we have on an economic basis massively. Resources being wasted, harvest being damaged and non-edible, properties being reduced to almost zero, and so on and so forth. The infographic somehow has a point and almost accurate. I really like how they did it and the evidence of having it studied is great.
It's definitely the most alarming issue, in which no immediate action can be taken against it to instantly stop it. All those years of irresponsibility and environmental negligence, wars, nuclear weapons and so on, not caring about the consequences altogether, has lead the planet to a point of no return.
One day, the world will run out of natural resources due to the abuse a lot of people are doing. Climate change will also be a factor that may cause massive increase on death count. The world really needs healing because if the are just going to disregard all of this risks, it can be the cause of the end of humanity. The pandemic as well imposes risk that will make a huge impact in the future not only in every individual's lives but also to the economy of each country. There are a lot of risk that we fail to notice and if we would stay ignorant on all of it, we will surely lose hope in the future.
legendary
Activity: 2044
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May 09, 2021, 12:21:36 AM
#61
The global risk posed by hacking bitcoin, has the nature like weapons of mass destruction., that is, it is unlikely to occur but the impact is very large and attacks many people. when Bitcoin dumps price 10% in one day then we can see all the crypto prices are collapse, How about if bitcoin is hacked ... it will destroy the cryptocurrency civilization.

If bitcoin died there are plenty of others to take its place. And it's hard to buy the argument that bitcoin disappearing would have wide-spread impact since the vast minority of people in the world have any exposure to bitcoin at all. It may affect some people immensely, but overall the impact would be quite small when measuring on a global scale.
hero member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 904
May 04, 2021, 04:35:33 AM
#60
The global risk posed by hacking bitcoin, has the nature like weapons of mass destruction., that is, it is unlikely to occur but the impact is very large and attacks many people. when Bitcoin dumps price 10% in one day then we can see all the crypto prices are collapse, How about if bitcoin is hacked ... it will destroy the cryptocurrency civilization.
That's quite unlikely, there's no beingness in your claim. It's not something that is practically nor theoretically possible, Bitcoin is decentralized, what's about it that can be hacked? The worst case scenario would be if a major exchange gets hacked, such as Bitstamp or Binance.
sr. member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 254
United Crowd
May 03, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
#59
The global risk posed by hacking bitcoin, has the nature like weapons of mass destruction., that is, it is unlikely to occur but the impact is very large and attacks many people. when Bitcoin dumps price 10% in one day then we can see all the crypto prices are collapse, How about if bitcoin is hacked ... it will destroy the cryptocurrency civilization.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1252
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May 03, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
#58
We can see how climate change or most likely those who are hard to be controlled are into the high risk part of the chart which includes infectious diseases for even with the advancement of technology and modern medication, it is still hard to find and resolve modern mutation of virus that creates diseases transferred to living things. Maybe the reason why weapons of mass destruction is in the less high risk is because it is found to be a potential mass threat that can still be manageable but considering the damage it would cause, probably it will line up along the high level risk near climate change.

Regarding Bitcoin hacks, I think it can be considered to belong into asset bubble or into cybersecurity failure for both concerns the nature of it and can range the risks included on potential hacks.
legendary
Activity: 2044
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May 02, 2021, 08:24:28 AM
#57
Things that humans do. We refuse to act collectively on climate change but agree on reports that flag these concerns on top. I can see there are quite a few deniers in the forum itself but their opinions don't matter. What is surprising is that although the most powerful people are judging fossil-fuel related climate change as catastrophic, there is very little that actually happens on the ground. A lot keeps getting said about renewables but biggest consumers like China continue to burn coal. Hence, imo, this risk analysis really has no utility except being an academic curiosity.

It isn't even that well thought of. For example, the impact of "mental health deterioration" is lower than that of "price instability" or "industrial collapse". If every person on earth was to suffer from mental health issues, lose their efficiency and become a bit sadder in general, these people judge that it wouldn't have the same impact as industry collapse. I feel that it is a reflection of values that we now hold dear as a consumerist, capitalist society.

Consumption, Industry and economics is more important that human happiness and mental stability. Such times.



The process is still useful whether people are listening to it or not. Exxon Mobile has only moved to a position that publicly acknowledges climate change because of years of public pressure, so an informed public is worth pursuing.  China doesn't give a shit because China's main economic and military goal is to reach parity with the United States, and they will literally poison their own population in order to do it.  Your mistake is assuming that China's values the environment more than economic and military might and is just choosing to ignore the obvious ramifications of their actions, and it's not the case.

This infographic accompanied a report which you haven't read yet concluded it wasn't well thought out. You're making a judgement in a vacuum without a good understanding. It's your assessment that isn't well thought out, not the conclusions of the researchers.
legendary
Activity: 2044
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May 01, 2021, 08:16:39 AM
#56
For those unfamiliarised, this is a risk quadrant depicting the world level risks. How important the risk is is based on how likely is to materialise (likelyhood or frequency) and how bad is it (impact or severity).

For example something that is likely to happen and is disastrous will be on the top right corner. Risks that are unusual but terrible would be top left. In the inforgraphics you can see how climate change is quite likely and has severe consequences whereas weapons of mass destruction are less likely and even just equally as bad.

Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?



I am going to have to disagree with some of those choices simply due to the "cried wolf syndrome"    and massive media hype.  I will point to the global warming(originally global cooling(look it up!)) as a primary example of OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE hype for the last 40 years.   Exactly zero percent of the climate crisis has resolved. All previous prediction have come and gone and all have been not only wrong but just flat out lies.  (BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!)   Actually.  That's not how science works.  Its the skeptics that make the advances generally. Science attempts to disprove itself that's literally how it works

This economic problem we currently have with the least deadly pandemic ever is entirely due to massive incompetence and yet more media hype.   That isn't to say there wont be a real problem in the future.  Just look back and see how badly handled the mild pandemic was =>

Nuclear weapons numbers have dropped from 65,000 city killers to only a stunning 9,000 city killers worldwide.  so yah that's a positive..  sorta... I also don't think that number is truthful if you built nukes would YOU tell people how many you had?  Cooler heads (even if they are greedy buggers) are more common now.

In any case, I don't think that map is accurate and some of it isn't even real.  like the "backlash against science"  BS, its Backlash against BS science. 

You're flat wrong about all the climate denialism you just posted.  "All previous prediction (sic) have come and gone and all have been not only wrong but just flat out lies."  Obviously all it would take to disprove such a recklessly stupid claim would be to post one example of a climate change prediction that was accurate, right?  Surely, none of the thousands of climate scientists working over the past century has ever made an accurate climate prediction!  That's such an obviously self-defeating statement I don't have to go find any of the thousands of studies that have been validated over time.  
sr. member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 339
April 30, 2021, 03:08:37 PM
#55
Insecurities is a thing that affect societies irrespective the management of the particular environment, really the major institution that is creating pollution and making people to lost some of their product today is base of insecurities, economy of the country having a lobe hole is because of security purposes, from this scenario hacking of Bitcoin account and government sector is due to lacks of security, so the world entirely is lacking security from my perspective, I don't really know from any one from any angle  intention about these.
I don’t think the problem is that they can’t provide that security, I believe they can provide the security , but they are failing to do what they are supposed to do. This is the problem with governments in most places, they don’t do what they are supposed to do, they have failed the people and that’s the problem we are having and it’s a difficult one for us to correct it.

A lot of countries are struggling today because of what their leaders has done. Most of the leaders are interested in getting the power and doing whatever pleases them and getting rich, and in doing so they end ruining the economy.
sr. member
Activity: 2520
Merit: 280
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April 29, 2021, 10:01:08 PM
#54
It infrastructure collapse is less likely to happen in 2021 while it is not a developing one too due to the pandemic but in the next few years like less than 5 years most of the IT will be transferred to AI so there will be a huge breakdown in the economic activity and the unemployment rate, I am not sure that is going to happen in reality but if m assumptions are right the this is going to be one of the major impact.
hero member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 904
April 29, 2021, 03:56:22 PM
#53
I have watched the BBC video about India and things are looking not so good there at all. I mean I am not saying that other nations are doing fine, all nations are in trouble, hell we are living in a world where going outside without a mask on could mean that you may end up dying, how crazy is that? No seriously you may have lived the past year this way and maybe get used to it, but think about it for a second if you go outside without a mask on that means you could die. That is like a thing from a Hollywood movie type of disaster.

However India is living the worst of it, even though other nations are going through hard time, India is literally out of oxygen and that is the most serious thing you could ever have in a pandemic. There are people who die not because they got covid, but because they couldn't get the care, there are people who could have been saved given enough care that die because they can't get the care they otherwise could have if it wasn't this big right now. It is really looking gloom there.
That's why India has been decimated by the pandemic, facing more than 300,000 new cases and almost 4,000 deaths on a daily basis. These numbers are extreme. The living conditions in many parts of their nation are terrible, with millions being deprived of a water source and a toilet, while living on top of each other. That's how infectious diseases start and spread faster than the speed of light.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 711
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April 29, 2021, 02:21:22 PM
#52
Insecurities is a thing that affect societies irrespective the management of the particular environment, really the major institution that is creating pollution and making people to lost some of their product today is base of insecurities, economy of the country having a lobe hole is because of security purposes, from this scenario hacking of Bitcoin account and government sector is due to lacks of security, so the world entirely is lacking security from my perspective, I don't really know from any one from any angle  intention about these.
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
April 29, 2021, 01:51:52 PM
#51
Well for me, --most of the climate, environment, science are actually the real risk we had to be ready for. As this is very much uncontrollable right away. Comparing it to massive destruction, proper negotiation, and avoiding international conflict could avoid, nature which won’t really give as much mercy if in case it happens. It would also affect all of the sectors we have on an economic basis massively. Resources being wasted, harvest being damaged and non-edible, properties being reduced to almost zero, and so on and so forth. The infographic somehow has a point and almost accurate. I really like how they did it and the evidence of having it studied is great.

when i see all this eventually everyone will die from something, we can still choose  Huh
legendary
Activity: 3710
Merit: 1170
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April 29, 2021, 11:45:47 AM
#50
I have watched the BBC video about India and things are looking not so good there at all. I mean I am not saying that other nations are doing fine, all nations are in trouble, hell we are living in a world where going outside without a mask on could mean that you may end up dying, how crazy is that? No seriously you may have lived the past year this way and maybe get used to it, but think about it for a second if you go outside without a mask on that means you could die. That is like a thing from a Hollywood movie type of disaster.

However India is living the worst of it, even though other nations are going through hard time, India is literally out of oxygen and that is the most serious thing you could ever have in a pandemic. There are people who die not because they got covid, but because they couldn't get the care, there are people who could have been saved given enough care that die because they can't get the care they otherwise could have if it wasn't this big right now. It is really looking gloom there.
full member
Activity: 1358
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April 29, 2021, 11:00:05 AM
#49
There is a lot of hardship in some countries right now, that will make their government to do everything possible to educate their citizens on cryptocurrency to reduce the hardship and also help the economy to grow faster. Since some countries just came out from lockdown, they have learnt a lesson from the pandemic not to reject decentralized currency in their country than to make it legalized to their citizens to also enjoy the benefits attached to it.
full member
Activity: 862
Merit: 100
April 29, 2021, 08:46:18 AM
#48
Covid-19 information in India is very popular in all countries, seeing the people there experiencing very bad things, but I saw that the country had not previously paid much attention to Covid-19. I got the information that people in India didn't really care about the virus a few months ago. But bad things are happening now and can't be avoided. That's right, that the economy is very supportive of the virus that is happening at this time. disease will continue to grow if you are unable to eat.
It is horrible for every nation. Sure there are some that have more than others places like USA, India, UK, Brazil, France these are all doing bad right now. As you can see it is not about finances or how developed you are, India and Brazil are seen as developing nations and most westerners would assume that those nations are not good places to live if you asked them, but the reality is that as much as underdeveloped nations are in trouble, the highly developed ones as well, USA is literally leading in cases and they are the most developed nation in the world.

Europe, UK all are doing bad Russia is doing horrible as well. Long story short every nation in the world is in trouble and it is a proof that we need to find out a method that will be much better for our future, something that will prevent or at least help recover quicker in the future because we may see something like this again one day.

This is a parasite for everyone in the world, it is true that USA, India, UK, Brazil, France are developed countries that continue to grow with good economies but I see that India is a bad country in news information on television and on social media. In my opinion India is only progressing in their country but I see they are not very clean when it comes to food. I saw the news on social media. How will you be healthy if the food you eat is not good for you. Perhaps it was one of the triggers for the fast-growing Covid-19 in them as their body defenses deteriorated.
legendary
Activity: 2394
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April 29, 2021, 05:20:19 AM
#47

The COVID current situation in India shows that the risk of diseases and biological risks are by no means underestimated. Perhaps the risk should be considered on a country by country basis, but insofar as the number of people affected, we cannot deny that an uncontrolled disease with no cure and quick to expand and with potential to infect pretty much anyone has been proven to cause not only a substantial number of deaths in poor countries, but also a deterioration of the economy that will also kill people due to lack of attention, food, living conditions...

Covid-19 information in India is very popular in all countries, seeing the people there experiencing very bad things, but I saw that the country had not previously paid much attention to Covid-19. I got the information that people in India didn't really care about the virus a few months ago. But bad things are happening now and can't be avoided. That's right, that the economy is very supportive of the virus that is happening at this time. disease will continue to grow if you are unable to eat.

TBH it is one of the few countries in which I have heard that you could get tested, have a positive and have the lab itself offering you to certify a negative for the equivalent to 10 USD extra. This type of mentality is going not only to bring a disaster for the country, but also generate new variants that may have a strong influence in world economy. India may be at risk of having any foreign travel banned if they continue to act as the "petri dish" for disease spread of the world.
full member
Activity: 658
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April 29, 2021, 03:34:20 AM
#46
Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?
I'd place it next to weapon of mass destruction. It'll stop the world for sure specially if a major hack would happen on major stock exchanges or even in Bitcoin, fortunately it wont happen due to the fact that its secure unlike any other centralized currencies.
full member
Activity: 826
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April 29, 2021, 02:21:49 AM
#45

The COVID current situation in India shows that the risk of diseases and biological risks are by no means underestimated. Perhaps the risk should be considered on a country by country basis, but insofar as the number of people affected, we cannot deny that an uncontrolled disease with no cure and quick to expand and with potential to infect pretty much anyone has been proven to cause not only a substantial number of deaths in poor countries, but also a deterioration of the economy that will also kill people due to lack of attention, food, living conditions...

Covid-19 information in India is very popular in all countries, seeing the people there experiencing very bad things, but I saw that the country had not previously paid much attention to Covid-19. I got the information that people in India didn't really care about the virus a few months ago. But bad things are happening now and can't be avoided. That's right, that the economy is very supportive of the virus that is happening at this time. disease will continue to grow if you are unable to eat.
I think maybe the government in India has given a warning, but this is a religious ceremony, where sometimes the government is difficult to prevent, and when this happens, of course the country is increasingly experiencing economic decline, because health hazards lurk
legendary
Activity: 2660
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April 28, 2021, 02:02:58 PM
#44
Covid-19 information in India is very popular in all countries, seeing the people there experiencing very bad things, but I saw that the country had not previously paid much attention to Covid-19. I got the information that people in India didn't really care about the virus a few months ago. But bad things are happening now and can't be avoided. That's right, that the economy is very supportive of the virus that is happening at this time. disease will continue to grow if you are unable to eat.
It is horrible for every nation. Sure there are some that have more than others places like USA, India, UK, Brazil, France these are all doing bad right now. As you can see it is not about finances or how developed you are, India and Brazil are seen as developing nations and most westerners would assume that those nations are not good places to live if you asked them, but the reality is that as much as underdeveloped nations are in trouble, the highly developed ones as well, USA is literally leading in cases and they are the most developed nation in the world.

Europe, UK all are doing bad Russia is doing horrible as well. Long story short every nation in the world is in trouble and it is a proof that we need to find out a method that will be much better for our future, something that will prevent or at least help recover quicker in the future because we may see something like this again one day.
full member
Activity: 862
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April 28, 2021, 08:05:03 AM
#43

The COVID current situation in India shows that the risk of diseases and biological risks are by no means underestimated. Perhaps the risk should be considered on a country by country basis, but insofar as the number of people affected, we cannot deny that an uncontrolled disease with no cure and quick to expand and with potential to infect pretty much anyone has been proven to cause not only a substantial number of deaths in poor countries, but also a deterioration of the economy that will also kill people due to lack of attention, food, living conditions...

Covid-19 information in India is very popular in all countries, seeing the people there experiencing very bad things, but I saw that the country had not previously paid much attention to Covid-19. I got the information that people in India didn't really care about the virus a few months ago. But bad things are happening now and can't be avoided. That's right, that the economy is very supportive of the virus that is happening at this time. disease will continue to grow if you are unable to eat.
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin
April 28, 2021, 06:15:06 AM
#42

--snip-- Regarding diseases, I am sure that we will be able to to address it if we continue to improve in terms of medicine.
Over the last century, we have been able to control diseases a lot. Average life expectancy went up due to antibiotics and other medical advances. Yet, it seems like nature is in an arms race with human race. We are running out of new antibiotics as microbes are developing resistances. Nothing needs to be said about the SARS-CoV2. The efficacy with which it is killing off some of the victims has left medical experts bewildered. Now, it seems like it is mutating.

Getting rid of diseases and disability would be such a boon for human existence. It'd be literally heaven on earth if somehow every human was assured of a disease-free existence. It'd probably be too costly for everyone to afford but if such technology could ever exist (The kind they featured in the movie Elysium), it'll be a time of celebration. I doubt we are anywhere near that or can even ever reach there. For every answer that delving into the micro-world provides, it throws up another question.
Diseases and natural disasters are indirectly a result of man made actions. Overpopulation, food shortages that lead to eating animals or insects we shouldn't (see bats, rats, cats and many more), terrible living conditions in many areas, which is unacceptable in the age we live in, (Such as the poorest parts of India, Thailand, Asia and Africa in general). All these circumstances create an ideal environment for infectious diseases to be developed.

Moreover, most natural disasters, such as floods or wildfires, are purely result of our own actions.

The COVID current situation in India shows that the risk of diseases and biological risks are by no means underestimated. Perhaps the risk should be considered on a country by country basis, but insofar as the number of people affected, we cannot deny that an uncontrolled disease with no cure and quick to expand and with potential to infect pretty much anyone has been proven to cause not only a substantial number of deaths in poor countries, but also a deterioration of the economy that will also kill people due to lack of attention, food, living conditions...
hero member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 904
April 28, 2021, 06:02:09 AM
#41

--snip-- Regarding diseases, I am sure that we will be able to to address it if we continue to improve in terms of medicine.
Over the last century, we have been able to control diseases a lot. Average life expectancy went up due to antibiotics and other medical advances. Yet, it seems like nature is in an arms race with human race. We are running out of new antibiotics as microbes are developing resistances. Nothing needs to be said about the SARS-CoV2. The efficacy with which it is killing off some of the victims has left medical experts bewildered. Now, it seems like it is mutating.

Getting rid of diseases and disability would be such a boon for human existence. It'd be literally heaven on earth if somehow every human was assured of a disease-free existence. It'd probably be too costly for everyone to afford but if such technology could ever exist (The kind they featured in the movie Elysium), it'll be a time of celebration. I doubt we are anywhere near that or can even ever reach there. For every answer that delving into the micro-world provides, it throws up another question.
Diseases and natural disasters are indirectly a result of man made actions. Overpopulation, food shortages that lead to eating animals or insects we shouldn't (see bats, rats, cats and many more), terrible living conditions in many areas, which is unacceptable in the age we live in, (Such as the poorest parts of India, Thailand, Asia and Africa in general). All these circumstances create an ideal environment for infectious diseases to be developed.

Moreover, most natural disasters, such as floods or wildfires, are purely result of our own actions.
legendary
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April 28, 2021, 05:09:56 AM
#40
The only thing I care about in this chart is the climate action failure. I guess people focus on making money that they forget how awful we treat the environment. In a couple of years, with the current pace of development, Earth will be full of trash and climate change. There will be no place for the organism to live, except the human. I do not applause humans for being the only creature to continue to exist but rather feel sad. Human is capable to survive throughout a variety of recession, disasters because they can do outstanding things. Yet, animals are not on the list of Human protection. Because of the high ego, being selfish, They only care about money, politics, and human right (Human rights are good, but it is just an advocate for claiming that human are better than other creatures)
legendary
Activity: 1904
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April 28, 2021, 03:03:32 AM
#39
I get increased social anxiety,when it watch this chart.
What the hell is "digital inequality"?Does it have something to do with the big tech companies having a monopoly over the high tech industry?
So the biggest problems of the world are weapons of mass destruction,climate change and infectious deceases?Will any country in the world give up on storing nuclear weapons?Nope..
Are we fighting climate change?Nope...
Do we have an infectious decease going on around the world?Yes...
The world will fall apart and there's nothing we can do about it.Let's get drunk. Grin
We all get anxious on these things. Some of us lesser mortals get drunk, LOL. Others call this feeling of anxiety as "existential crisis" and start thinking of doing something to contribute towards solving these issues. Elon Musk is probably the most famous example of this who literally started SpaceX, Tesla, BORING company and all out of his existential crisis about the human species.

When you are in your 20s, all these issues drive you towards imagining solutions. People who are able to put that energy towards solving these issues generally tend to have great careers and I guess, don't waste their 30s contemplating about these. Rather, they are out in the battlefield getting their hands dirty and solving these problems. I, for one, envy these people and wish that more of us had the luck/ opportunity to spend our lives actually changing things rather than having to face anxiety due to them.

--snip-- Regarding diseases, I am sure that we will be able to to address it if we continue to improve in terms of medicine.
Over the last century, we have been able to control diseases a lot. Average life expectancy went up due to antibiotics and other medical advances. Yet, it seems like nature is in an arms race with human race. We are running out of new antibiotics as microbes are developing resistances. Nothing needs to be said about the SARS-CoV2. The efficacy with which it is killing off some of the victims has left medical experts bewildered. Now, it seems like it is mutating.

Getting rid of diseases and disability would be such a boon for human existence. It'd be literally heaven on earth if somehow every human was assured of a disease-free existence. It'd probably be too costly for everyone to afford but if such technology could ever exist (The kind they featured in the movie Elysium), it'll be a time of celebration. I doubt we are anywhere near that or can even ever reach there. For every answer that delving into the micro-world provides, it throws up another question.
member
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April 28, 2021, 02:38:21 AM
#38
I get increased social anxiety,when it watch this chart.
What the hell is "digital inequality"?Does it have something to do with the big tech companies having a monopoly over the high tech industry?
So the biggest problems of the world are weapons of mass destruction,climate change and infectious deceases?Will any country in the world give up on storing nuclear weapons?Nope..
Are we fighting climate change?Nope...
Do we have an infectious decease going on around the world?Yes...
The world will fall apart and there's nothing we can do about it.Let's get drunk. Grin
If we continue to tolerate tech companies, I am sure that they will get a stranglehold of government because they will have a big influence. I don't think that countries will ever get rid of their nuclear stockpile because they know that when war brokes out and they lose, they have to make a stand to do a mutual assured destruction. Regarding diseases, I am sure that we will be able to to address it if we continue to improve in terms of medicine.
hero member
Activity: 3164
Merit: 937
April 28, 2021, 02:01:23 AM
#37
I get increased social anxiety,when it watch this chart.
What the hell is "digital inequality"?Does it have something to do with the big tech companies having a monopoly over the high tech industry?
So the biggest problems of the world are weapons of mass destruction,climate change and infectious deceases?Will any country in the world give up on storing nuclear weapons?Nope..
Are we fighting climate change?Nope...
Do we have an infectious decease going on around the world?Yes...
The world will fall apart and there's nothing we can do about it.Let's get drunk. Grin
legendary
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April 27, 2021, 10:25:12 PM
#36
The scale makes absolutely no sense. How do weapons of mass destruction have a lower impact compared to the pandemic?

Seems as if they just plotted a bunch of potential events arbitrarily along the axes.

It's interesting that they rank "asset bubble burst" as both a more likely and serious event compared to public infrastructure failure, though. Whilst the equities markets are indeed going to be very prone to collapse at such heights, it's barely even in the same neighbourhood of influence as if electricity suddenly went out worldwide.

Because weapons of mass destruction are localized and infectious disease (not the pandemic specifically) can go global far easier.  Plus, it's only marginally higher by a couple percentage points when you notice the graph axes are truncated. 

As for the other point, I'm sure there's actual research and projections that accompanies this info graphic, it's not just a bunch of points plotted with no reasoning or forethought. It just so happens that only the infographic was posted.
hero member
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April 27, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
#35
Climate change right now is very alarming, but the Government seems doesn't care about it. The planet provides, and we destroy everything for our own selfishness "needs", how unfair is that. Maybe some of you would say that we need to remove something in order to put something else, but for me, it's not worth it since money and fame won't save us if mother Earth collapses,  we are all gonna die when that time happens.

So it is now or never, this pandemic lockdown is a living proof that if we try, we can heal our planet.
I don't think it's a government issue. Climate change is a global thing, and it requires the attention of everyone, from citizens to governments. It requires worldwide cooperation, and it's not the easiest thing to do, especially with the current situation. Don't get me wrong, I believe it's the most alarming issue and the most crucial one, for many decades ahead.
sr. member
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April 27, 2021, 08:59:55 AM
#34
Climate change right now is very alarming, but the Government seems doesn't care about it. The planet provides, and we destroy everything for our own selfishness "needs", how unfair is that. Maybe some of you would say that we need to remove something in order to put something else, but for me, it's not worth it since money and fame won't save us if mother Earth collapses,  we are all gonna die when that time happens.

So it is now or never, this pandemic lockdown is a living proof that if we try, we can heal our planet.
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April 27, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
#33
I'd put it near the asset bubble burst. Though bitcoin saw a lot of crashes through the years, it's no denying that a lot of people right now are getting involved in the digital currency.
I think that it is the appropriate place but considering the damage that it can do, I am sure that when this happens, a lot of things are going to devastated and it will take a long time before we can recover to this even if bitcoin was to go back up.

Maybe it will be a clear recovery this year to see people still holding out to invest in Bitcoin and other virtual currencies. But with catastrophic factors such as Covid-19, bitcoin has increased from the end of 2020 to the present. Maybe people are starting to be afraid to go out and find food by investing in crypto.
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The Standard Protocol - Solving Inflation
April 26, 2021, 04:09:01 PM
#32
Personally, I'd say the most critical risk of bitcoin is cybersecurity failure. Cybersecurity failure, if it happens, will not necessarily be targeted at bitcoin. It's something that'll affect the whole Internet and since bitcoin is on the Internet, it will be affected and this may be the end of bitcoin.
However,  just the chart showed, it is highly improbable compared to other financial risks and this means that it would takes years if not decades before this will happen.
legendary
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Blackjack.fun
April 26, 2021, 08:23:53 AM
#31
I was thinking more of the use of other types of mass destruction, such as chemical or biological, which could fall into the wrong hands - and it is possible that a nuclear attack with a home-made bomb can happen at any time.
~
The fact is that there is a huge amount of weapons of mass destruction, and that is a huge risk given that there are always those who would be happy to use them against their enemies.

I didn't deny the possibility of it happening, of course it's possible but there was a ranking in here and that was my argument for it, no attack has ever happened, if we ignorer small scale one like the one in Japan with the Aum sect for half a century while the others are happening frequently. There is a hurricane season every year, there are catastrophic tsumanis and earthquakes happening if not yearly at least every 4-5,  and while some attacks or war can be prevented you can't stop earthquakes and there is nothing that can be done with economic and politically cycles either.

Of course, it's possible we might have one such event even next month but the chances are pretty slim while for extreme weather, how is that a possibility, we have it already. On that scale of 1:5 which is even linear, I would have rated it under 1, as the poll for it was for:
Existential threats Long-term risks (5 – 10 years)
These happening 5 - 10 years from now on? No!
legendary
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April 26, 2021, 12:31:24 AM
#30
Things that humans do. We refuse to act collectively on climate change but agree on reports that flag these concerns on top. I can see there are quite a few deniers in the forum itself but their opinions don't matter. What is surprising is that although the most powerful people are judging fossil-fuel related climate change as catastrophic, there is very little that actually happens on the ground. A lot keeps getting said about renewables but biggest consumers like China continue to burn coal. Hence, imo, this risk analysis really has no utility except being an academic curiosity.

It isn't even that well thought of. For example, the impact of "mental health deterioration" is lower than that of "price instability" or "industrial collapse". If every person on earth was to suffer from mental health issues, lose their efficiency and become a bit sadder in general, these people judge that it wouldn't have the same impact as industry collapse. I feel that it is a reflection of values that we now hold dear as a consumerist, capitalist society.

Consumption, Industry and economics is more important that human happiness and mental stability. Such times.

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April 26, 2021, 12:25:45 AM
#29
For those unfamiliarised, this is a risk quadrant depicting the world level risks. How important the risk is is based on how likely is to materialise (likelyhood or frequency) and how bad is it (impact or severity).

For example something that is likely to happen and is disastrous will be on the top right corner. Risks that are unusual but terrible would be top left. In the inforgraphics you can see how climate change is quite likely and has severe consequences whereas weapons of mass destruction are less likely and even just equally as bad.

Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?



I am going to have to disagree with some of those choices simply due to the "cried wolf syndrome"    and massive media hype.  I will point to the global warming(originally global cooling(look it up!)) as a primary example of OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE hype for the last 40 years.   Exactly zero percent of the climate crisis has resolved. All previous prediction have come and gone and all have been not only wrong but just flat out lies.  (BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!)   Actually.  That's not how science works.  Its the skeptics that make the advances generally. Science attempts to disprove itself that's literally how it works

This economic problem we currently have with the least deadly pandemic ever is entirely due to massive incompetence and yet more media hype.   That isn't to say there wont be a real problem in the future.  Just look back and see how badly handled the mild pandemic was =>

Nuclear weapons numbers have dropped from 65,000 city killers to only a stunning 9,000 city killers worldwide.  so yah that's a positive..  sorta... I also don't think that number is truthful if you built nukes would YOU tell people how many you had?  Cooler heads (even if they are greedy buggers) are more common now.

In any case, I don't think that map is accurate and some of it isn't even real.  like the "backlash against science"  BS, its Backlash against BS science. 
sr. member
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April 26, 2021, 12:00:56 AM
#28
I may be mistaken but before we suffer from the extreme weather we are going to suffer from super bacteria and viruses. The covid is a clear example of this, in a short time it spread and in months the whole world was at a standstill.
I agree that the whole world may come to a standstill because the economy is hampered by the epidemic. The history of the epidemic is as old as human civilization infectious diseases have spread to certain areas at different times sometimes worldwide which is hurting the economy of the poor in addition to the corona virus various diseases have taken the form of epidemics at different times. Climate is also a risk for the global economy.
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April 25, 2021, 04:14:26 PM
#27
I may be mistaken but before we suffer from the extreme weather we are going to suffer from super bacteria and viruses. The covid is a clear example of this, in a short time it spread and in months the whole world was at a standstill.
sr. member
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April 25, 2021, 05:29:00 AM
#26
I'd put it near the asset bubble burst. Though bitcoin saw a lot of crashes through the years, it's no denying that a lot of people right now are getting involved in the digital currency.
I think that it is the appropriate place but considering the damage that it can do, I am sure that when this happens, a lot of things are going to devastated and it will take a long time before we can recover to this even if bitcoin was to go back up.
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April 24, 2021, 06:59:11 PM
#25
Now that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are doing a good role in the economy and it has attracted the attention of some institutions and I am sure that more will come to join.
Climate change is a latent problem that as well as we support the digital assets that we represent, it is also our problem to give our contribution in search of the solution to reduce these problems by demanding the use of environmentally friendly energy.


Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk agree on bitcoin's green credentials

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/technology-56844813.amp
hero member
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April 22, 2021, 04:31:57 PM
#24
The scale makes absolutely no sense. How do weapons of mass destruction have a lower impact compared to the pandemic?

Up until recently, I guess, nobody realized what a big impact a pandemic can have on the world economy. A couple of years ago they probably wouldn't put it that high on a scale. But weapons of mass destruction, come to think of it, may not have such a big impact, as a pandemic.
Whoever intends to use weapons of mass destruction would use it locally, probably just as a tool for threat and intimidation, to show the power and seriousness. But there's no point in wiping out half of the planet, everyone knows that. So this would probably end in millions of people dying, local disaster, but, as cynically as it may sound, the world would carry on and nothing would happen on a global scale. While the pandemic affects all of the countries at once.
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April 22, 2021, 05:25:57 AM
#23
The scale makes absolutely no sense. How do weapons of mass destruction have a lower impact compared to the pandemic?

Seems as if they just plotted a bunch of potential events arbitrarily along the axes.

It's interesting that they rank "asset bubble burst" as both a more likely and serious event compared to public infrastructure failure, though. Whilst the equities markets are indeed going to be very prone to collapse at such heights, it's barely even in the same neighbourhood of influence as if electricity suddenly went out worldwide.
I get what you are saying, but my guess would be that weapons of mass destruction (Nuclear bombs etc) can be avoided/stopped if such an event is close to happen while an infectious pandemic can hardly be controlled. Any measures to constrain a disease might be uncertain and won't have an immediate effect. Take SARS for instance, it is one of the successful attempts in disease control, although it still affected thousands.
legendary
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April 22, 2021, 04:58:54 AM
#22
I rank the nuclear war at the same risk, close to zero compared with the others, and my argument would be that in the last 70 years with nukes on our had none got used in a real war, even when things were far more serious like Korea or Vietnam or close to a war like Cuba, as for the rest to a smaller or greater degree they already happened and some not just once.

I was thinking more of the use of other types of mass destruction, such as chemical or biological, which could fall into the wrong hands - and it is possible that a nuclear attack with a home-made bomb can happen at any time. States are very cautious on this issue because they know that any attack will provoke a sharp counterattack and that no one emerges victorious from a nuclear war.

You must be familiar with the movie The Peacemaker, so even though it’s just a movie, if anyone had the desire to do it, I believe it would be feasible today. Of course, the question is how to get to the most important components - but given what is happening in Russia - Russian 'doomsday' plane's radio equipment stolen by thieves, I think anything can be bought or stolen for the right price.

The fact is that there is a huge amount of weapons of mass destruction, and that is a huge risk given that there are always those who would be happy to use them against their enemies.
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April 21, 2021, 09:35:12 PM
#21
I think it's already there as "cybersecurity failure".

That's also one of those diamonds that looks like it's both too high and too low and should probably be split into finance and other infrastructure.
It can still be restored because there is still electricity, to me, I would say that if we lost electricity then we will essentially go back to stone age.

The scale makes absolutely no sense. How do weapons of mass destruction have a lower impact compared to the pandemic?
Well, most WMD aren't going to get armed anytime soon compared to pandemic. I mean we can prevent wars via diplomacy but pandemic is something that occurs in nature. Not to mention that WMD will kill us all in one fell swoop while pandemic does the opposite.
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April 21, 2021, 09:01:53 PM
#20
The scale makes absolutely no sense. How do weapons of mass destruction have a lower impact compared to the pandemic?

Seems as if they just plotted a bunch of potential events arbitrarily along the axes.

It's interesting that they rank "asset bubble burst" as both a more likely and serious event compared to public infrastructure failure, though. Whilst the equities markets are indeed going to be very prone to collapse at such heights, it's barely even in the same neighbourhood of influence as if electricity suddenly went out worldwide.
legendary
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Cashback 15%
April 21, 2021, 06:55:42 PM
#19
I'd put it near the asset bubble burst. Though bitcoin saw a lot of crashes through the years, it's no denying that a lot of people right now are getting involved in the digital currency. And we're no longer talking about billions of $ in growth, but rather hundreds of billions. The impact may not be severe should bitcoin sees itself falling back down to pre-2020 levels, but still is enough to make waves on the financial industry especially the big names who have lots of stake in the cryptocurrency and are the key movers of it currently.
legendary
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April 21, 2021, 06:27:17 PM
#18
Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?



....

Quote
Federal Reserve Hacked More Than 50 Times In 4 Years

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve detected more than 50 cyber breaches between 2011 and 2015, with several incidents described internally as “espionage,” according to Fed records.

The central bank’s staff suspected hackers or spies in many of the incidents, the records show. The Fed’s computer systems play a critical role in global banking and hold confidential information on discussions about monetary policy that drives financial markets.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hackers-breach-federal-reserve-50-times_n_574ee0d5e4b0757eaeb1194c


In Kevin Mitnick's (2003) cybersecurity book "The Art of Deception" it is claimed that more than 80% of businesses with an internet presence are electronically compromised at some point in time. With a high percentage of attacks executed by current or former employees. I would guess the state of affairs in 2021 is far worse. With states and governments having accumulated stockpiles of electronic vulnerabilities/attacks coupled with a greater integration of internet and electronic warfare.

These days it would appear that everything is being hacked.

A better question to ask could be: what isn't hacked -- there is a shorter list of candidates and it is easier to answer.

...

That is an interesting infographic published by the world economic forum btw. Segments of it could be disputed if efforts are made to separate the political elements from the science.
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April 21, 2021, 06:12:39 PM
#17
I would put this risk somewhere near "Weapons of mass destruction", but lower, around 3.5 on this scale. The likelihood of a Bitcoin hack or problem with a financing network on a global scale is very low, but the consequences of such events would be severe. Money is everything in our world and too many people and companies lately are involved with Bitcoin, thus, such an event would have a very serious impact on the global economy.
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April 21, 2021, 06:09:49 PM
#16
Well for me, --most of the climate, environment, science are actually the real risk we had to be ready for. As this is very much uncontrollable right away. Comparing it to massive destruction, proper negotiation, and avoiding international conflict could avoid, nature which won’t really give as much mercy if in case it happens. It would also affect all of the sectors we have on an economic basis massively. Resources being wasted, harvest being damaged and non-edible, properties being reduced to almost zero, and so on and so forth. The infographic somehow has a point and almost accurate. I really like how they did it and the evidence of having it studied is great.
It's definitely the most alarming issue, in which no immediate action can be taken against it to instantly stop it. All those years of irresponsibility and environmental negligence, wars, nuclear weapons and so on, not caring about the consequences altogether, has lead the planet to a point of no return.
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April 21, 2021, 03:23:44 PM
#15
Well for me, --most of the climate, environment, science are actually the real risk we had to be ready for. As this is very much uncontrollable right away. Comparing it to massive destruction, proper negotiation, and avoiding international conflict could avoid, nature which won’t really give as much mercy if in case it happens. It would also affect all of the sectors we have on an economic basis massively. Resources being wasted, harvest being damaged and non-edible, properties being reduced to almost zero, and so on and so forth. The infographic somehow has a point and almost accurate. I really like how they did it and the evidence of having it studied is great.
hero member
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April 21, 2021, 02:48:40 PM
#14
For those unfamiliarised, this is a risk quadrant depicting the world level risks. How important the risk is is based on how likely is to materialise (likelyhood or frequency) and how bad is it (impact or severity).

For example something that is likely to happen and is disastrous will be on the top right corner. Risks that are unusual but terrible would be top left. In the inforgraphics you can see how climate change is quite likely and has severe consequences whereas weapons of mass destruction are less likely and even just equally as bad.

Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?


Great post, the diagram itself is very informative. It's quite depressing that the terrorist attacks have so high probability of happening throughout 3021. Quite a few others don't surprise at all, such as extreme weather, climate action failure or infection diseases (See Covid-19, and there are probably more to come in the future).

I would also add immigration crisis, if I am not mistaken, it's not in the chart, it was a pretty controversial subject throughout years 2019-2020, and it's an occurring matter as we speak.
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April 21, 2021, 06:36:42 AM
#13
A big bitcoin exchange hack I would put on the to left corner. With the bitcoin price being between 50-60,000 USD there is a lot of money being invested. If news would spread that a big exchange got hacked than the prices would probably fall. And when the stolen coins are being dumped into the market than the coins would fall even further. So the impact would be severe while the chances are not that high. We have seen big hacks in the past and the companies upgraded their security.
sr. member
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April 21, 2021, 04:45:22 AM
#12
Climate problem is so severe yet the world is not doing anything about it. There are a lot of people who believe it is a hoax as well, we are literally dying as species because of it but nobody cares, the world will become more and more inhabitable place in the near future, it used to be something dangerous but right now we are already way beyond that, now we are at a point where it is guaranteed that the world will have a big trouble, but are we going to all die as humanity or not that is where we are right now, if we can start doing something we can actually maybe die in billions but not as a whole, but if we do not do anything then we will all die, there will no longer be any humans on earth in 50 years if this keeps going on.

I know this is not about bitcoin hack or network failure I am sorry but it just bothers me so much to see people not caring about it.
That's because they are lobbied to not change a thing about the energy sources, also it is really expensive to change from fossil fuel to renewable sources or nuclear, and there is also the unreliability of renewable sources in terms of electricity, we have to also innovate on power reserves like more efficient batteries to store energy, and in terms of nuclear, we don't have a lot of innovations in that field after the Cold War, most are old models and building a new one can take years but if the government has the will to do it and has the money and support, I think that we can see some changes.

I would probably put in the mid tier but not likely to happen because in the likely event that we lose money, financial collapse is going to happen but to happen takes planning and technology to pull it off.
legendary
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April 20, 2021, 05:18:51 PM
#11
For those unfamiliarised, this is a risk quadrant depicting the world level risks. How important the risk is is based on how likely is to materialise (likelyhood or frequency) and how bad is it (impact or severity).

For example something that is likely to happen and is disastrous will be on the top right corner. Risks that are unusual but terrible would be top left. In the inforgraphics you can see how climate change is quite likely and has severe consequences whereas weapons of mass destruction are less likely and even just equally as bad.

Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?



First, the axis is cut off so the graph is truncated and skewed to the upper right as displayed.  That said, I'd place breaking the Bitcoin encryption very low likelihood axis and moderately low on the impact axis.  It would be low enough on both that it wouldn't show on this graph, down in the lower left corner of an expanded graph.  On a global scale, the impact would be fairly minimal at this point, but the likelihood would be far lower due to the calculations how how much computing power it would take to crack the encryption and how many years it would take.
legendary
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April 20, 2021, 03:27:29 PM
#10
Climate problem is so severe yet the world is not doing anything about it. There are a lot of people who believe it is a hoax as well, we are literally dying as species because of it but nobody cares, the world will become more and more inhabitable place in the near future, it used to be something dangerous but right now we are already way beyond that, now we are at a point where it is guaranteed that the world will have a big trouble, but are we going to all die as humanity or not that is where we are right now, if we can start doing something we can actually maybe die in billions but not as a whole, but if we do not do anything then we will all die, there will no longer be any humans on earth in 50 years if this keeps going on.

I know this is not about bitcoin hack or network failure I am sorry but it just bothers me so much to see people not caring about it.
legendary
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Blackjack.fun
April 20, 2021, 12:04:21 PM
#9
For example, if there are huge extreme weather impact it may be followed by a industry collapse, debt crisis (as government will spend more money to recover economy), which will lead to Youth disillusionment (because they will have no jobs)  and so on....

I would put "youth disillusionment" in the far left bottom corner, youths are always disillusioned when they grow up, it happens with every generation, there is no "risk" is a sure thing and it will be the same for every generation no matter what you try to do, it's unavoidable.

It is not serious to me that anyone thinks that the risk of weapons of mass destruction is not likely given the amount of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons that will sooner or later be in the hands of some fanatics who will use them.


I rank the nuclear war at the same risk, close to zero compared with the others, and my argument would be that in the last 70 years with nukes on our had none got used in a real war, even when things were far more serious like Korea or Vietnam or close to a war like Cuba, as for the rest to a smaller or greater degree they already happened and some not just once.
We had state collapse, we had a natural disaster with hundreds of thousands of deaths, we had a crisis with every resource from copper to oil, migration (and not only recently) basically everything there.

I don't understand why they think the illicit economic activity is less probable than some of those, that one is one that is bound to our economy, it will never get away no matter what you try.


legendary
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bitcoindata.science
April 20, 2021, 09:53:56 AM
#8
I expect them to push very hard Climate Change agenda

many of the "top risks" are from the climate change agenda.

Take a look at those:

-Natural Resources Crisis
-Biodiversity loss
-Human Environmental damage
-Extreme Weather
-Climate Action failure (the top one)
-backlash against science (which is the same as backlash against climate change agenda)

Actually, nearly all of the risks mentioned in the infographic are related.

For example, if there are huge extreme weather impact it may be followed by a industry collapse, debt crisis (as government will spend more money to recover economy), which will lead to Youth disillusionment (because they will have no jobs)  and so on....
legendary
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April 20, 2021, 09:39:57 AM
#7
I would never trust any World Economic Forum reports or anything their founder Klaus Schwab said.
Just remember their 2030 report agenda titled You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy or listen some of the recent Klaus Schwab interviews.
I expect them to push very hard Climate Change agenda and that could be one of the high risk factors, and like Klaus Schwab said himself, possible Cyber Attack would make complete halt to power supply, transportation, hospitals and covid19 would look like a small disturbance compared to this.

hero member
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April 20, 2021, 09:34:56 AM
#6
I feel that cyber crime is indeed a threat but as long as technology exists, hacking behavior accounts for only a few percent of the success of the technology.  Hackers are geniuses when it comes to bad things but there are many more geniuses who support and protect the good.  Hacking is sure to happen but this will not be very massive and will make the whole technology destroy instantly.  An act of this magnitude does require coordination from the many parties involved.  So, I still think this cyber risk will only occupy 3.0 points.  The category is still not that bad, only the impact will be very big later.
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April 20, 2021, 08:37:32 AM
#5
It is not serious to me that anyone thinks that the risk of weapons of mass destruction is not likely given the amount of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons that will sooner or later be in the hands of some fanatics who will use them. I would move that risk at least in the middle or even further, but I agree that the risks in the upper right corner are already practically a done deal, and it's just a matter of their intensity when it comes to climate and dangerous weather phenomena that everyone can already feel on their skin.

When it comes to hacking Bitcoin, I don't think any option is likely in the near future, and I mean that someone manages to hack someone's private key and apply it en masse - because the technology behind Bitcoin is quite complex - and 51% an attack is an endeavor that is theoretically possible, but would require an incredible amount of money and coordination to perform. I would place that risk in Likelihood less then 2.5.
legendary
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April 20, 2021, 08:15:57 AM
#4
I would put it up there with "Asset Bubble burst" .... even though it is not a asset. Let's not forget that the Bitcoin price is determined by Supply & demand and any bad event or even government intervention..will have a detrimental impact on the price.

A government like the USA can ban Crypto currencies and it will cause a ripple affect on the demand side and the price can go into a downward spiral, like it did just after 2017.... when it went down to $3000+

As we have recently seen with fake tweets, spreading misinformation and causing the price to react negatively.  Roll Eyes
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April 20, 2021, 07:41:09 AM
#3
The bitcoin risk for me is the price instability and this is surely what some are scared about and miss out in the benefit. For the risk takers, they are the investors that have eventually benefitted from bitcoin. Well about the price instability, a better knowledge about the purpose of bitcoin will teach us that we can't do anything about it. Either we take the risk or stay back while others go in. Is a choice however that we make that determines how we ball in the future.
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April 20, 2021, 07:15:16 AM
#2
I think it's already there as "cybersecurity failure".

That's also one of those diamonds that looks like it's both too high and too low and should probably be split into finance and other infrastructure.

I'd have enough not in crypto to be able to trade my way up to what I've got over the course of about a year - diversifying isn't just assets, it can be skills too...

legendary
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April 20, 2021, 06:58:42 AM
#1
For those unfamiliarised, this is a risk quadrant depicting the world level risks. How important the risk is is based on how likely is to materialise (likelyhood or frequency) and how bad is it (impact or severity).

For example something that is likely to happen and is disastrous will be on the top right corner. Risks that are unusual but terrible would be top left. In the inforgraphics you can see how climate change is quite likely and has severe consequences whereas weapons of mass destruction are less likely and even just equally as bad.

Now, where would you place the risk of a bitcoin hack o network problem in your finances and in the world finances?

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