Write a song with your seed phrase | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: JoyMarsha on November 17, 2022, 04:17:32 PM

Since you are turning your seed phrase into lyrics of a song, don't forget that the moment you miss any letter word of the seed phrase(the way it's arranged) you have lost access to your wallet automatically.

Human beings are bound to miss a lyrics of a song when it is not played for long their hearing.

Yes.. I agree with what you just said above because turning the seed phrase of our wallet into lyrics of a song is not a bad idea, but not writing it down or documenting it elsewhere, relying only on the brain alone will be the worst thing to ever do. Turning seed phrases into lyrics of a song should be a tertiary or secondary way of storage, that can be easily remembered, while the primary method should be either by writing it on a piece of paper or metal, which can't be easily erased

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Quote from: glendall on November 17, 2022, 06:08:22 PM

I think printing it will be safer because someone's memory will definitely be obsolete and easy to forget which is consumed by time and our age.

Printing the seed phrase (or in this case, the "seed-song") is not recommended, because you introduce third parties, such as the closed-source firmware and software of the printer firm. Just write them down in a piece of paper, with a simple pencil.

Quote from: Smartvirus on November 17, 2022, 04:35:58 PM

The easiest ways to secure your seeds remains to write it down and then, you worry about ensuring what you've written down is safe.

Suggestion: use back-ups. It's more likely to have yourself locked out of your money, than to have a stranger / burglar steal it from you.

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I can never trust to save the seed as a song because human memory is prone to error and forgetting and therefore you can lose all your assets, it is better to write it on a piece of paper and keep it in a safe place in your home, there are many cases of lost accounts and wallets caused by forgetting the password composed of A word or two, so how if it is the case with a seed consisting of 12 or 24 words, the probability of forgetting will be much greater.
Also, if you intend to give the seed to your wife or son for future use after your death, then in this case you are obliged to write it down on a piece of paper.

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You know if one is really smart and dedicated this really would be the best way to go about owning and strong your bitcoin. I mean what a powerful thing that would be to have figured out how to train your brain to remember your seed phrase in a song and or as well as your private key. Sadly I’m going to just admit I don’t think I have what it takes to make this a reality, but hats off to those who do.

glendall

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Apart from writing it as song lyrics, I think printing it will be safer because someone's memory will definitely be obsolete and easy to forget which is consumed by time and our age.
anyways for seed phrases very unrelated like songs have to add the word it will make it harder for us to remember it isn't it
the point is I won't do this and will do the old-fashioned way of recording and printing it and then saving it and that's it

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Quote from: JoyMarsha on November 17, 2022, 04:17:32 PM

Since you are turning your seed phrase into lyrics of a song, don't forget that the moment you miss any letter word of the seed phrase(the way it's arranged) you have lost access to your wallet automatically.

Human beings are bound to miss a lyrics of a song when it is not played for long their hearing. The way they do remember it is when is being played to them once in a while. To avoid such mistakes, write the seed phrase on a piece of paper, in case any time you forget a word from the composed lyrics of your seed phrase, you go back to where it is written for a refreshed memory

The only way of doing this safely would be chronological order since the more complex you make it, the more likely you're to make mistakes or forget it. I already think it's a little bit too complex, when really you just need to assure the physical security of your seed, and you'll probably be alright in the majority of cases. There's plenty of ways to mitigate the risks of storing something like this physically, without actually making it more complex than it needs to be.

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Clearly not an option for at OP. Maybe for some but know that, these words are not something that is born out of your emotions. They would always remain something you push through for the sake of making the lyrics rhythm in some manner and that might be some ears to be forgetful.

The easiest ways to secure your seeds remains to write it down and then, you worry about ensuring what you've written down is safe. It's pretty much a hard copy you and the rest is a matter of placement, avoid destructions and ensuring privacy. That might come by some means but in all, you just do what's best for you.

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I have never thought of this but it's a good idea but this isn't advisable for those that can easily forget. You might also forget on which part of the song is your recovery words/seeds.
But the crazier part and advise that I'll never do is to memorize the entire words through my mind only. I saw someone suggested that and when you forgot it, your assets are gone forever.

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Quote from: Doan9269 on November 17, 2022, 08:52:27 AM

If i can consider the security of assets with bitcoin i don't think it's advisable to openly publish my seed phrase on the open forum like this, to me it's not safe enough to use the seed phrase in writing a song on a platform like this, someone could easily spy up the keys and further with some actions to aim on attacking the user, there are more secured ways to permanent keep our keys without any compromised, such is in using an encrypted device whereby you can write them and lock the access, or get yourself a hardware wallets if having problem with keeping the keys in a safe way.

But, who says that you will post it here? If you are concerned about the OP, don't worry because I think the seeds that he wrote in the first page is not his personal but it was only an example. Seed phrases shouldn't be posted in public because it was like a password to open up our wallet.

The two ways that you suggested there to secure our keys are great however I only follow one of it at the moment and that is by using an encrypted device. I am using my laptop, usb flash drive and mobile phone. I don't have a hardware wallet for now but I am planning of owning one soon. Apart from these, the op's idea is also cool. I think I will also try it.

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Since you are turning your seed phrase into lyrics of a song, don't forget that the moment you miss any letter word of the seed phrase(the way it's arranged) you have lost access to your wallet automatically.

Human beings are bound to miss a lyrics of a song when it is not played for long their hearing. The way they do remember it is when is being played to them once in a while. To avoid such mistakes, write the seed phrase on a piece of paper, in case any time you forget a word from the composed lyrics of your seed phrase, you go back to where it is written for a refreshed memory

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Nothing is perfect and it all depends on how much we can secure it, and to memorize 12-24 recovery seed words as a song actually only works in the short term and for the long term, are we still memorizing it.

Personally, I think the safest way is to store that seed offline, and never store it in any way digitally unless that digital device is never allowed to connect to the internet.
and lots of people have found creative ways to do this, writing it on paper is fine but prone to damage, so think more physical methods like etching a rock or metal.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 17, 2022, 03:24:22 PM

It can be fine, but it's not the best thing you can do. Even if it's an air-gapped device, hard disks are known for having a few years long lifetime.

I was mainly referring to plainly written down, so I probably should've worded that better. I personally believe in physical, non digital storage. Then securing that physically is really your main concern.

As you mention, failing hard drives are one thing that's pretty unpredictable. However, also corruption, and not outright failure can obviously lead to problems too. Ideally, you'd have multiple non digital back ups, that aren't stored in the same place. However, not many people have the resources to do that, at least securely.

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier.

You should try whatever fits your character and mood. Satoshi gave us bitcoin, what we do with it and how well we can protect it is up to us.

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

In short, it's a song about regret and depression, like most of his songs. It's either melancholy or sadness in there, or both.

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on November 17, 2022, 02:49:20 PM

I do not remember saying that I know more than the experts who study encryption algorithms for years. I do not think I made it sound like that.

I didn't say you did. I just answered on your question, which was if it'd be good idea to come up with your own encryption scheme.

Quote from: goldkingcoiner on November 17, 2022, 02:49:20 PM

And if you noticed I also said that writing it down, either as an encryption, in a song or plain text is not a good idea. But you must have missed that part of my post.

I didn't miss it. I'm not talking about you anyway-- broadly, about people who would might have the same question about encryption scheme.

Quote from: Welsh on November 17, 2022, 02:52:58 PM

Plain text can be fine.

It can be fine, but it's not the best thing you can do. Even if it's an air-gapped device, hard disks are known for having a few years long lifetime.

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Quote from: Odusko on November 17, 2022, 03:06:07 PM

also misspellings of the seed phrase as time goes on, but why do I need to write them down in a song when I can simply have them written down in a save place either none paper or other means of securing them.

Any mistakes in spelling should be easy to rectify. You could easily just Google the correct spelling, unless you've made an absolute mess of things, but most people are competent enough not to do that. I guess the only exception would be a non English speaker, that's using the English word seeds.

For your later point, it's usually okay to do so for most people. Obviously, people have different threat models, and comfort levels. So, it's going to differ from person to person, and there's no real correct answer. I prefer the approach of not over complicating things so much that it introduces problems, rather than solves them.

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Song lyrics can serve as a good means to store some words for a long time and are easy to remember those phrases, but again we should take time to understand and evaluate the risk involved in having the written as song lyrics since humans can make the mistake of forgetting things or also misspellings of the seed phrase as time goes on, but why do I need to write them down in a song when I can simply have them written down in a save place either none paper or other means of securing them.

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on November 17, 2022, 02:49:20 PM

I also said that writing it down, either as an encryption, in a song or plain text is not a good idea. But you must have missed that part of my post.

Plain text can be fine. Depends how you store it, basically you need a back up that isn't just convenient, but also has a high degree of physical security. Therefore, the most important part about a physical backup, is how you store it, and what sort of security you implement. You can make it digitally as strong as you want, but if you don't approach the physical side of things with the same scrutiny, that digital protection could all be for nothing.

Luckily, generally most of us can devise a pretty good standard of protection physically without doing anything too fancy.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 17, 2022, 02:41:57 PM

Quote from: goldkingcoiner on November 17, 2022, 02:15:35 PM

Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that?

Because it's unlikely you know more than the experts who're studying about encryption algorithms for years.

I do not remember saying that I know more than the experts who study encryption algorithms for years. I do not think I made it sound like that.

What I am saying is that, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a seed phrase song just a kind of algorithm in itself? That's basically what I meant, because it seems like to me that a song would just be easier to crack if someone knew what to look for? Again, I am not calling myself an algorithm expert. Far from it.

And if you noticed I also said that writing it down, either as an encryption, in a song or plain text is not a good idea. But you must have missed that part of my post.

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Quote from: Jatiluhung on November 17, 2022, 01:01:17 PM

I write on special paper using a white crayon. so the text is not visible. and will only be visible when washed with other color paint.

I've not researched this, but generally Crayon isn't known to last very long. Are you sure that this would last potentially decades? Nothing has been tried, and tested more than normal ink. Crayon on the other hand, probably wouldn't last as long, especially if it was subjected to frequent handling. Ideally, you wouldn't be handling it very often, but I don't know your setup so it could potentially be handled or stored with other important documents which could effect it.

I'm sure you've considered it, but thought it might be worth mentioning. I personally wouldn't want to use crayon. I'm sure if it's just white crayon it would be able to be seen via shining a light on it or holding it up to light, right?

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on November 17, 2022, 02:15:35 PM

Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that?

Because it's unlikely you know more than the experts who're studying about encryption algorithms for years.

Quote from: Jatiluhung on November 17, 2022, 01:01:17 PM

Remembering 12 personal wallet phrase codes I don't think is as difficult as you think.

Let's do an experiment then. Generate a seed phrase, try memorizing it, don't touch it for a year, and come back in this thread to tell me that you do remember it. Maybe it isn't as easy as it seems.

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

EDIT

I am not suggesting this to be your only option for storing your seed phrase. I just thought it could be helpful to remember your seed phrase, in case you lose your backups.

Do not joke on something serious because it will bring disaster to us.
We as humans are created perfect when compared to other creatures on earth. We have reason and with reason we are required to think.

We understand that making as you say is to help remember the 12 word phrase. But we must also understand that when we experience a disaster such as a car accident that causes problems in the brain, are we still able to remember even though we have made it into a song?

It's better to save the phrase in some place offline that we can read.

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Sorry but I must say that this is the worst idea of ways to store seed phrases, though unique in its way.
Personally, if since 2015 I got into crypto, I've not had issues finding or remembering my seed phrases I wrote on paper, I don't see any reason why I should start writing a song using my seed phrase, besides, what's the essence of writing a song that will never be recorded, waxed and released to the public?
I will rather continue in my old style of writing my seed phrase in a piece of paper and keeping it safe, releasing a song with my seed phrase as part of the lyrics is a risk I would never take, don't ever underestimate how knowledgeable and smart people can be.

goldkingcoiner

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A seed phrase song? Seems like encryption but a bit lazier. Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that? Not that I am condoning writing down seed phrases in any way or form. I still think its a bad idea. Surely 12 words are not that hard to commit to memory long term? Just recite it everyday until you have it in your long term memory. OR better yet, every time you access your wallet, access it with your seed phrase. If you do that everyday at some point that phrase will become indented into your memory. No need to leave physical or digital storage.

The Cryptovator

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I'm not recognizing What is the difference between writing a seed phrase and writing a song with your seed phrase? Because we can't recall our seed phrase, how can we recall song along with seed phrase? How will my seeds be identified if I write seed phrases with songs? That we have to memorize. I'm not certain that if I understood the OP correctly.

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Remembering 12 personal wallet phrase codes I don't think is as difficult as you think. But if the 12 phrases are only stored in memory then it is not recommended. because a memory is sometimes affected by its forgotten name, even a memory can be a little mistaken. but if we write it on a special paper and stored in a place that we think is safe then that's better. But actually I personally do both.

I write on special paper using a white crayon. so the text is not visible. and will only be visible when washed with other color paint.
I also remember the first 2 letters of the phrase my personal wallet which is specifically used for storing my long term investment assets.
I haven't thought about turning it into a song lyric. I prefer the way I do it myself.

Bitstar_coin

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Whether a song or poem it is still important to put it down in writing in a safe place that is only accessible to you. Memory can fail someone but if you can back it up somewhere it will be better.
Am not sure this is something I would do since I have my seed phrase written down and lock up somewhere, but I do find the idea interesting and probably useful in a way, memorizing a phrase in the form of a song or poem can make room for easy access instead of always trying to reach them anytime they are required.

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I believe it's a good idea only if you keep this song hidden from everyone else like you would keep your secret words written on a paper, because if someone have access to your song they can copy it and try opening your wallet with the words containing on it until they match the correct ones and their correct sequence. I guess it wouldn't be a hard task for a hacker to decipher the secret behind a short song of probably few verses with very discordant words from each other.

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 17, 2022, 11:28:35 AM

Yes, I wouldn’t recommend creating a song out of the word list. I meant once you have your seed phrase (perhaps given to you by your wallet), then creating a melody with those words.

I do get that, but if you had this written down somewhere, it could potentially be guess if it only contained the words in your seed. Since, there's some words that stand out in the list, which aren't commonly used, and might accidentally indicate to whoever happens upon this piece of paper that it's a backup technique. It's not a technique that's unheard of.

That's if you write it down, if you solely rely on memory that has it's own issues. Again, it comes down to physical security, and while a well executed song of your seed might add a extra layer of security, it's probably unnecessary if your physical security is already substantial, which it ideally should be.

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Quote from: Welsh on November 17, 2022, 11:02:33 AM

Quote from: wxa7115 on November 16, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

It is not a bad idea as this is a very old trick used to remember all kind of information that people have known for a very long time, but it should not replace traditional backups and at best it should be used as a last resort.

Well, it could be. Obviously, users here have already mentioned the memory problem, however what about not adding enough entropy. Since, seed words are well known at this point, and it's open source anyhow. Therefore, if you don't put words that are in that list, and aren't part of your seed, the entropy is actually terrible. Obviously, this only goes for if you're writing this down, but generally to remember something as complex as this you'd need to write it down.

Besides, as long as you look after your physical security, then you don't need to complicate things further by doing something like this.

Yes, I wouldn’t recommend creating a song out of the word list. I meant once you have your seed phrase (perhaps given to you by your wallet), then creating a melody with those words.

BTCapsule

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 17, 2022, 11:18:32 AM

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 17, 2022, 10:47:15 AM

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase?

You rely on human brain and memory, both of which are proven improper for this job. There have been countless of incidents of people who just forgot a few words, or the order of the words years later, and got locked off their wallet. It gives you a false sense of security. You should better find a secure alternative.

Yes, I understand why relying on memory is a terrible idea, but I’m not suggesting that you rely on this technique; just that it could help people remember in case they lose their physical copies. It seems if you lose your physical copies, and also forget the lyrics to the song you wrote, then you’re in no worse position than if you lose your physical copies and never attempted to memorize your seed phrase.

Asiska02

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This might be a pretty effective technique to retain it in your memory, however I think memory lapses occasionally, and if that happens, I suppose your seed phrase is lost. There's a good chance you'll forget it in 3-6 months if you don't sing it frequently because you don't get to sing it constantly in your mind because it is not necessary.

The lack of rhymes in the seed phrase you use to put it together is another example that comes from memorizing this in the brain. The sentences could not fit together to create a musical rhyme that the brain can grasp. As a result, some pronouns or words will be added, which could cause the seed phrase to completely change and include a term that wasn't originally there.

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Good point on entropy from Welsh, and I would add that adding an extra word or two, particularly in non-english languages with recognised romanised spelling, to yr phrase can help with that, can help with a song, and anyway deters cracking using recognised dictionaries.

I don't know well enough if that's bad practice but no one has ever pointed out to me it is, I do know that it has been pointed out it doesn't actually improve the security of an already properly randomised seed selection.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 17, 2022, 10:47:15 AM

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase?

You rely on human brain and memory, both of which are proven improper for this job. There have been countless of incidents of people who just forgot a few words, or the order of the words years later, and got locked off their wallet. It gives you a false sense of security. You should better find a secure alternative.

Quote from: xSkylarx on November 17, 2022, 11:12:40 AM

Good idea, but I am not really into memorizing it; I am always the guy who is putting it on paper or storing it in my drive as it is accessible to me.

Storing the seed phrase to a hard drive is also non-recommended.

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I find the general idea of hiding a pass phrase in art appealing. A friend of mine once used a fictional text and inserted the passphrase there as words of one character where a character did not speak clearly. It took some time to find the phrase, of course, but it's possible when you know where to look. Making a song with the words also sounds like a creative idea, but if a song is known to anyone, people can probably brute force the pass phrase quite fast (given that all the right words are already in a very small text), whereas if a song is only known by the person who made the lyrics, there's a good chance of just forgetting it. Have you never written some poetry but have now zero idea of the words in those verses? I think it's a pretty common issue, unless one has an incredibly reliable memory. With mine, I wouldn't risk it.

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

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Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

EDIT

I am not suggesting this to be your only option for storing your seed phrase. I just thought it could be helpful to remember your seed phrase, in case you lose your backups.

Good idea, but I am not really into memorizing it; I am always the guy who is putting it on paper or storing it in my drive as it is accessible to me. I will try it when I create a wallet soon. But the problem is if I forget it? I am a very forgetful person, though I can see the advantages of this if you need to use it like you don't have a physical copy of your seed phrase, and it is not accessible to the one you've saved on your computer. This is nice in this kind of situation

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Quote from: wxa7115 on November 16, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

It is not a bad idea as this is a very old trick used to remember all kind of information that people have known for a very long time, but it should not replace traditional backups and at best it should be used as a last resort.

Well, it could be. Obviously, users here have already mentioned the memory problem, however what about not adding enough entropy. Since, seed words are well known at this point, and it's open source anyhow. Therefore, if you don't put words that are in that list, and aren't part of your seed, the entropy is actually terrible. Obviously, this only goes for if you're writing this down, but generally to remember something as complex as this you'd need to write it down.

Besides, as long as you look after your physical security, then you don't need to complicate things further by doing something like this.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 17, 2022, 10:29:46 AM

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

I am not suggesting this to be ~~your only~~ an option for storing your seed phrase at all.

FTFY.

It is repeatedly told that storing a seed phrase in a non-standard way is prone to error. What's so hard to comprehend about that? You don't store your seed phrase into your head, or write a song about it, or write a book about it, or paint a board about it, or keep each word in distant places, or convert the seed into emojis, or use the hash of a password of your choice as seed etc., etc., etc. You can think of a billion "fun" ways to take care of your seed phrase, but it's irresponsible the least to avoid the known, simple ones everybody uses.

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase? I definitely understand why depending on a brain wallet is a bad idea, but as a last resort backup, I’m not sure I understand why this is discouraged.

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Using your seed phrase in such capacity is not bad but I think being able to keep memorizing it on daily basis is. Can you be able to do that every day as long as time passes by in years as the case maybe as long as you have that wallet in usage. Come to talk of it, there are lots of activities one gets him or herself involved in on daily basis so tell me if you get entangled with things on daily basis would you be able to memorize your key phrase everyday after a hectic time and keep doing this over and over. The best thing you can do is to keep record of your seed phrase in a particular place where only you can access it at any point in time while you do your memorising work as that phrase is the key to your assets.

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

I am not suggesting this to be ~~your only~~ an option for storing your seed phrase at all.

FTFY.

It is repeatedly told that storing a seed phrase in a non-standard way is prone to error. What's so hard to comprehend about that? You don't store your seed phrase into your head, or write a song about it, or write a book about it, or paint a board about it, or keep each word in distant places, or convert the seed into emojis, or use the hash of a password of your choice as seed etc., etc., etc. You can think of a billion "fun" ways to take care of your seed phrase, but it's irresponsible the least to avoid the known, simple ones everybody uses.

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That is not something that works always,how many times our memory fails us in the most important part of an exam for example,the same thing can happen to your seed if you forget about it after a long time of creating such a melody.

What I do is to keep 4 words of the seed in an offline Laptop that I almost never use,4 words of it in my phone and 4 words of it in a document in another PC to make it difficult for attackers while I have access to all these devices.I have also a small safe and a paper with all the 12 words if anything bad (failure) happens to my devices.

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What if i like nursery poems haha 🤣. Bro what are are really doing thats one of the most stupid thing i have ever sceen as you did mentioned that your are not encouraging but still what are you doing haha what you actually want to prove if these are your writing skill then you are admired.

DdmrDdmr

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Activity: 2338

Merit: 10802

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Though it should never be the one of the main ways of storing a seed phrase, I wouldn’t discard it’s use under certain circumstances. Say for example one needs to flee from his country, wishes to keep his seed handy, but has a chance that anything physical he carries (cyphered or not) can be confiscated or stolen along the way. One could try to memorize it, and a poem or a song seem like the easiest ways to convey the seed to memory, though it has to be well committed and tested, and it’s certainly not exempt from risks.

Often though, people may have more than one seed, and the song scenario is likely not going to be feasibly scalable to accommodate more than one seed. Additionally, one has to make sure not only to include the words from the mnemonic in order, but also to asses that he doesn’t include additional words from BIP 39’s wordlist alongside those from the seed in the said song.

Doan9269

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 560

If i can consider the security of assets with bitcoin i don't think it's advisable to openly publish my seed phrase on the open forum like this, to me it's not safe enough to use the seed phrase in writing a song on a platform like this, someone could easily spy up the keys and further with some actions to aim on attacking the user, there are more secured ways to permanent keep our keys without any compromised, such is in using an encrypted device whereby you can write them and lock the access, or get yourself a hardware wallets if having problem with keeping the keys in a safe way.

Plaguedeath

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 663

As long as the song is really nice and easy to sing, it will make you easier to remember your seed phrase. The thing is your seed phrase is randomly generated, you would get a word that you didn't really understand the meaning or really hard to include it for your song, this make it's not good to write a song with your seed phrase. Don't really depends with your song, you need to back up your seed phrase using steel plate or other solid material.

m2017

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1296

Crypto Casino and Sportsbook

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 16, 2022, 04:49:50 PM

You can write a song with your seed phrase, but know that the memory can fail someone at anytime, what you think you know might be forgetting, or the brain not able to accurately process the correct words completely. What you can rely on is to just backup the seed phrase offline on paper or metallic sheet. Backup on paper is the easiest while you can have the backup in two or three different locations, but there are metallic sheet you can purchase which are designed for seed phrase backup as well. Have the backup in at least two or three different locations. You can make the song the fourth backup, but never rely on it.

I also support your opinion that relying only on memory to save seed-phrases is very risky. But what if you combine your proposal for a backup on paper or metal with OP's proposal? That is, in the backup, write not just the words from the seed-phrase, but write it as the text of the song. If you forget or mix up the lyrics of your seed-song, then the correct version will be in the backup. And also, it will create an insignificant, but still protection from prying eyes. Well, who would be interested in a simple song embossed on a piece of metal?

Victorik

member

Activity: 994

Merit: 14

Nicely done. But, not everyone is as talented as you to be able to write a song with some random words.

I would love to do something like this with my seed phrase tho.

However, hope you know that writing a song with your seed phrase doesn't guarantee that you will remember it. You might still forget a word or two, so my best bet is to write it down on paper, that way you never get to forget except you misplace the paper.

Rruchi man

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1116

Top-tier crypto casino and sportsbook

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

Making music out of things that are difficult to keep to memory is a really good way not to forget things. I remember that when we were in the high school then and were trying to learn about the first twenty elements in chemistry and also the periodic table, Our teacher made us sing a song that she formed using the name and symbol of these elements. It was the surest way for us not to ever forget, because I actually never did till date, whenever I remember the melody, I remember the elements in the right order. If songs were able to help us learn the very long periodic table, turning your seed phrase into a melody can be another good way to always remember them. You can even go the extra to record or write this song so even if you face experience memory loss, you will not be left completely blank.

Ucy

sr. member

Activity: 2674

Merit: 403

Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything’s my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua sea foam shame
Sunburn freezer burn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy"

- All Apologies by Nirvana

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

I wouldn't advise people to memorize things like that, especially secret keys that can be used to access valuable private data or assets. People could give them away sub-consciously or in the dream. I have no problem with memorizing public info, or private info that is not too valuable

Cryptmuster

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1176

Glory To Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!

Compiling a song from the words of a seed phrase is not so easy, there must be a rhyme in the verses, and for this you will most likely have to use additional words and you will need to somehow know the words from the seed phrase and where are the other additional words. Because remembering everything will not work, our memory is not so perfect to remember everything. I doubt this method, because it still requires the use of memory, and it can let us down at the most crucial moment.

Sarah Azhari

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 737

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything’s my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua sea foam shame
Sunburn freezer burn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy"

- All Apologies by Nirvana

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

I will be confused when memories the lyrics song at the same time and have to remember the melody too. And because the BIP39 seed word is unavailable in my local language, I shouldn't follow your suggestion. It's hard to memorize the lyric song where you unusually use that language. Are you creating another backup?, if not, you have to prepare to lose the money.

lovesmayfamilis

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 4265

✿♥‿♥✿

OP, in addition to your idea, get a parrot and teach it your song. Parrots are long-lived; if you are accidentally hit in the head, and you forget your song, then the bird will restore your memory.
But seriously, good methods of saving passphrases have already been mentioned thousands of times. It is always said that the best is the enemy of the good. If keeping a record of the seed phrase on paper works, but for the paranoid on steel, why complicate it even more?

johnsaributua

sr. member

Activity: 812

Merit: 257

PredX - AI-Powered Prediction Market

a song, simple but who doesn't like it. one way to remember it by liking. but behind it I think there is a risk that it could leak at any time about phrases or sensitive things about security even though it is difficult to memorize at least there are other ways, for example writing or sculpting. If the lyrics of the song are not the same (mixed with 12 word phrases) it will be awkward in the ears of some people and trigger suspicious questions. easier to remember but risky and in my opinion phrases can be made in the form of paintings etc

wxa7115

hero member

Activity: 2814

Merit: 734

Bitcoin is GOD

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything’s my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua sea foam shame
Sunburn freezer burn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy"

- All Apologies by Nirvana

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

It is not a bad idea as this is a very old trick used to remember all kind of information that people have known for a very long time, but it should not replace traditional backups and at best it should be used as a last resort.

This way if for some reason you lost access to your wallets and your backups you will still have some chances to recover your coins by having your seed words in your memory, however it is an unreliable method, and most likely just when you need it the most you will not remember all your seed words.

tbct_mt2

hero member

Activity: 2366

Merit: 838

Bad idea. Human memory is limited and it is very hard to remember what words in your song are parts of your wallet seed.

Maybe you will have your encrypting method to note that what words are for your seed. Only you can recognize them but I am doubtful if you put a dot on seed word or anything similar, others can see it too and make their guess.

I don't support this idea because at the end, if you store your backup safely and very secretly, you don't actually need this misleading method that might cause trouble to yourself too.

btc78

full member

Activity: 2520

Merit: 214

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Yeah we humans love to sing no doubt about that , but not all of us has that memorization ability in which some of us even their favorite songs cannot fill their mind so they forget it .
But I love your Idea and like me that also loves to right , I think now I have Idea how to keep safe my Seed , but will try this deeper for sure because we are talking about our holding here that may lose in the air if we fail to remember the seed without writing it down.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: Hispo on November 16, 2022, 09:10:18 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on November 16, 2022, 08:36:13 PM

~snip~

My personal trick to keeping it in mind is to practice at least once or twice a month.
However, i can agree that memorizing one's seed is a solution which can be very situational, it would be useful to pass savings through borders or keep one's money save in a place which is very anti-Bitcoin or cryptography, like China for example.

In the end, for most of situations keeping it safe somewhere engraved on metal should be enough.

As for me, I totally forgot about it. I can't even remember a single word from my seed phrase. But I think this is totally understandable knowing that you don't make use of it every now and then. The last time I made use of it was years ago; that was years before the pandemic. That's a recovery phrase and recovery doesn't happen all the time.

I think it helps crossing very unfriendly boarders not to raise suspicion about listed words or words engraved on a piece of metal. So writing sentences or poems or, yeah, songs that contain those words might help.

dansus021

copper member

Activity: 2156

Merit: 983

Part of AOBT - English Translator to Indonesia

there is actually ton of idea about how we save the seed phrase including this one Grin

I also heard about implant in teeth. the best way is mage 2-3 and spread it ex. 1 in hardware wallet 1. paper and secure it etc. i think this is the best solution

Hispo

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 2025

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Darker45 on November 16, 2022, 08:36:13 PM

Well, to each his own, but I don't think I'd go as far as this in order to memorize my seed phrase. As a matter of fact, even if I successfully memorized it because of this strategy, it will just be a matter of time before I forget it. After all, I probably won't be singing it every single day. And, if worst comes to worst, and you'll experience memory loss, there's nothing to remember anymore. So the best way would still be writing it down in multiple copies and keep it in different hidden places.

My personal trick to keeping it in mind is to practice at least once or twice a month.
However, i can agree that memorizing one's seed is a solution which can be very situational, it would be useful to pass savings through borders or keep one's money save in a place which is very anti-Bitcoin or cryptography, like China for example.

In the end, for most of situations keeping it safe somewhere engraved on metal should be enough.

ZoeSamantha

newbie

Activity: 19

Merit: 0

I don't think it's a good idea to make it into a song. It's better to just memorize the words and save it. My memory is not enough for me to make it into a song and memorize it in my head.

meser#

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Reminds me of an episode of Chuck.

Spoilers:
The firing code of a weaponized satellite was placed at the end of an atari game. It was impossible to get to the end of this game. The person who coded this game and added the password, can get to end of game with rhythm of the music. So only he could pass the game and reach the password.

So, you can cypher your seed phrase with lyrics, but how much can be efficient? You can store it safely but when u need to use it, can it be save you from hacker or etc. ? If you are successful in this, congratulations you can keep your investments safe

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Well, to each his own, but I don't think I'd go as far as this in order to memorize my seed phrase. As a matter of fact, even if I successfully memorized it because of this strategy, it will just be a matter of time before I forget it. After all, I probably won't be singing it every single day. And, if worst comes to worst, and you'll experience memory loss, there's nothing to remember anymore. So the best way would still be writing it down in multiple copies and keep it in different hidden places.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4410

Merit: 4788

if people think their homes are not secure enough to invaders, burglars, or family. where you fear an outsider/insider stealing a piece of paper..
then:
a. i guess you have no large screen TV or wifes jewellery in your house out of fear of theft
b. you dont trust your family

to which. get a better door lock.
and get a divorce and find someone to live with you can trust

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

If you can't memorize the 12 words, then any lifehacks like making songs aren't going to help you in the long run. The problem with memorizing is not being able to bring it up from memory in one week, but keeping something in memory for many years. It's easy to forget refreshing your memory because of some events in life, and then realize that you forgot your seed because you didn't repeat it in a while.

Human memory was not created to store data the way computers do, our memory was designed for storing concepts and associations, not raw bits of data in precise order. Anyone who decides to store their seed in their memory need to understand that it's so unreliable that they should treat this backup as if it doesn't exist and rely on other methods first.

gantez

full member

Activity: 1736

Merit: 121

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything’s my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua sea foam shame
Sunburn freezer burn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy"

It is looking difficult if you try to memorize the passphrase of your wallet in song. This is dangerous to rely on only. You have need to save or store somewhere again to avoid misplace of words. If you look into your first line

Quote

"I wish I was like you

5th line

Quote

I'll take all the blame

they look foreign to what passphrase can look, so how do you think you won't be confused in 2 years if you want to login to it.

harapan

sr. member

Activity: 1736

Merit: 306

Maybe one way that will work better for me is to use my twelve seed phase to form a football team that way I will never forget it even if you wake me up from the sleep I will have them at all times. Everyone has his own way to go about it but I go with the names of footballers. But from your lyrics don't you think someone can unscramble those seed phase Cheesy

Better write them safe in a laminated paper and check them after three months regularly you can also share to your wife or kids if you trust them

Mahanton

hero member

Activity: 2730

Merit: 632

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

Not a bad idea but i would rather be sticking into traditional ways considering that storing or saving up your keys via song is never been that ideal.You could eventually forget these things on long runs.
I would rather be saving it on a steel plate and would be hiding it as much as possible away from others attention which could really be a devastating thing if someone do find out your keys.
Well, if someone do find this seed phrase song integration is something that convincing on someones approach then its up to them but not for me.
There are things which is more sensible rather than on doing this.

Charles-Tim

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 4795

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 05:25:13 PM

I definitely think it’s a good idea to write it down, but if it’s written down as a song, it may be a lot harder for someone to realize what they’re looking at if the paper falls into the wrong hands.

If you think like that, why not just go for passphrase instead, it is no more convenient for me to setup a wallet without passphrase, while also still making sure my seed phrase is protected and secure enough to damages and attacks. Once I know that if the passphrase is forgotten, I will lose my coins, I have the passphrase backup separately and yet using the letters, numbers and characters that I can easily remember.

BTCapsule

member

Activity: 74

Merit: 83

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 16, 2022, 04:49:50 PM

You can write a song with your seed phrase, but know that the memory can fail someone at anytime, what you think you know might be forgetting, or the brain not able to accurately process the correct words completely. What you can rely on is to just backup the seed phrase offline on paper or metallic sheet. Backup on paper is the easiest while you can have the backup in two or three different locations, but there are metallic sheet you can purchase which are designed for seed phrase backup as well. Have the backup in at least two or three different locations. You can make the song the fourth backup, but never rely on it.

I definitely think it’s a good idea to write it down, but if it’s written down as a song, it may be a lot harder for someone to realize what they’re looking at if the paper falls into the wrong hands.

Adbitco

hero member

Activity: 1428

Merit: 653

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Despite writing a song with it there should be a place where you could save and protect it more better, okay what if you have a memory disorderliness something similar occurs like accident in a way you couldn't get back the memories of remembering your song or the melody. So to me I think printing it out would be more better storing it into where you could get more access is more preferred.

Charles-Tim

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 4795

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

You can write a song with your seed phrase, but know that the memory can fail someone at anytime, what you think you know might be forgetting, or the brain not able to accurately process the correct words completely. What you can rely on is to just backup the seed phrase offline on paper or metallic sheet. Backup on paper is the easiest while you can have the backup in two or three different locations, but there are metallic sheet you can purchase which are designed for seed phrase backup as well. Have the backup in at least two or three different locations. You can make the song the fourth backup, but never rely on it.

BTCapsule

member

Activity: 74

Merit: 83

"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything’s my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua sea foam shame
Sunburn freezer burn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy"

- All Apologies by Nirvana

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

EDIT

I am not suggesting this to be your only option for storing your seed phrase. I just thought it could be helpful to remember your seed phrase, in case you lose your backups.

Topic: Write a song with your seed phrase (Read 566 times)