Topic: WTB/WTT Honey Samples (Conditions inside!) (Read 1247 times)

So today the Student Union communications officer informed me of this: http://asiancorrespondent.com/111839/oxford-brookes-university-architecture-student-conducting-honey-bee-research/
(He has a google alerts for anything about the union).

My response was 'Da fuk?!'

Like it's been stated it eliminates selection bias. Although I can use all the samples from a single hive because I'm looking for long term pollutants (lead, neonics etc).
These should be present in all the honey/comb in roughly the same quantities. The random 3/5 selection from throughout the hive simply confirms this.

Its a pain in the arse, but that's what the head of Microscopy said I need to do. Capped comb is perfect. Exactly what I need to be honest.

I wasn't too keen in ripping apart my own hive, but I probably have a slight advantage to as I use warre hives. I can just slice a bit from the edge of the comb in different boxes (probably the comb connected to the box) and it's done. I was planning on taking the comb samples from: 1 x top (oldest comb), 2 x 2nd box, 2 x 3rd box. This has the advantage of not touching the brood comb.

You can see my bees here. (Yes, I have coverable windows in my Warre boxes!)

let's ask him 

I understand the importance of randomization, but sampling from the same thing... is the same thing, and there is no possibility of bias because there is no difference between any of the samples.  Publishing a paper is pretty strict, and methods need to be clear, like making sure replicates are truly replicates, and randomization is used appropriately.  I occasionally am asked to review papers, (most recently the Journal of Economic Entomology) and this would be one of my first questions.

What I am really asking is for clarification on the methods of collection of the samples.  I think he wants to have 5 samples from different locations from the hive and not 5 samples from the same frame.

If he doesn't need the samples from different locations, then it would be much easier to pop open the lid and take out 1 frame and get all the samples without hardly disturbing the hive. And the two extra samples would be unnecessary...saving time and postage expenses.

Collecting from different locations, requires a much more invasive pillaging of the hive.  Taking samples from the different suppers... they are heavy right now, so it is a lot more work and gets the bees more rilled up.  This would also give better data as to the situation of the hive.  Still, three samples would be adequate to go through a peer review.

Just trying to get out of extra work or learn a new statistical lesson at the same time. 

what you say makes sense, but as soon as one needs to publish a paper/thesis, the scientific establishment wants to see certain things... like how was the study designed wrt to randomization etc...

Sampling from the same hive could be a pseudo-replicate and be meaningless to have so many samples.  The original instructions just ask for 5 samples, which could include taking a big chunk of honey comb that gets split it into five samples.  Randomizing the selection of 3 out of the 5 in this situation would be pointless.  If the samples were from different frames, then there would be a difference in time and nectar source, which would make sense.  I collected my samples from different frames just in case that is what he really wants.  But it would be a lot easier to sample from the same frame, and only send 3 samples.

so typically, in studies, randomization is used to protect against selection bias...

I collected from two locations this weekend, and hope to get a few more that are further out this week.

I'm collecting capped comb.  That's ok right?



I'm assuming those 5 samples are from different locations in the hive, representing different times and sources of nectar?
If that is not the case, then wouldn't 3 samples be sufficient?  Just trying to figure out the statistical advantage of randomizing samples from the same hive.

I'll send you some, about to collect linden tree honey here in suburbs of Chicago.  PM me and send me those vials you want it in...
also, i'll include a little bit for your personal consumption as well. 

P.S. I already have the 1st harvest this yr.  did you want 5 vials of that too?  that would be the first bloom from spring time around here...  whereas, linden tree just finished blooming.

How are your British Blacks doing?


We are hoping to harvest our 1st crop of comb honey this week.  I have 3 yards in different cities (all within 10 miles of each other) that I can collect from this week and next.
And I will check with a commercial beekeeper who has bees in several different locations (WY and UT... in mountains, near roads, and on farms).



Edit:  I will also check with some friends in Florida. I have worked out there with researchers at the University and with FL state.

Just a few posts above yours I found this here 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-honey-the-ultimate-delicious-store-of-value-237727

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