Bitcoin Forum>Economy>Trading Discussion
Author

Topic: Wtf? (Read 1023 times)

keo
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
Wtf?
April 27, 2013, 01:34:35 PM
#11
Quote from: Stylus on April 25, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
This is actually a classic case of how traders are using Mt. Gox to manipulate prices. Notice how the price of bitcoin has plunged nearly $30 while this has been going on.

When they get the price down far enough, they'll buy back massive amounts and repeat the process for as long as Mt. Gox allows their API to process massive amount of micro transactions from a single seller.

This process gives them a guaranteed way to buy low and sell high over and over again.

Here's a more detailed explanation from http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238571/Largest_bitcoin_exchange_Mt._Gox_39_throttles_39_trading_to_tame_price_swings:

Miscreants are also trying to manipulate the virtual currency's price by using Mt. Gox's API (application programming interface) to submit trades for very small fractions of bitcoins. It is possible to watch real-time trades on Mt. Gox through services such as Clark Moody's website, which shows Mt. Gox's order book, or the prices at which people want to either sell or buy bitcoins.

During heated trading, it is possible to see a rapid influx of very small quantities of bitcoin on both the buy and the sell side. A sell order for .0111 of a bitcoin, for example, would represent US$1.33 if one bitcoin is trading for $120.

It doesn't appear that buying or selling a $1.33 slice of a bitcoin would be very practical given the small economy so far for bitcoin services, although the market is growing. But entering lots of small sell orders, for example, can give the impression that bitcoin's price is falling even if it doesn't represent the broader market sentiment. Traders can submit more than one transaction using Mt. Gox's API.


Doing so small trades wouldn't take the price down as you would need much more volume to do so. mtgoxUSD is at $128 right now, if you'd like to push it down to $125 you'd need $615k to do so. $1 trades don't do anything for sure.

Small trades don't drive price down.

If someone's doing lost of small buys and sells they may be trying to market make.

http://f.cl.ly/items/0r0c1f0U0h3H1P0W2M0U/Screen%20Shot%202013-04-27%20at%2020.31.59.png
wtfvanity
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
WTF???
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 04:30:47 PM
#10
Did someone call my name?
Stylus
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 04:29:07 PM
#9
What else was there to be fearful about other than the sight of a high-volume Bitcoin sell-off?
puffpuffpass
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I'm nobody.
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 04:08:32 PM
#8
Quote from: Stylus on April 25, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
This is actually a classic case of how traders are using Mt. Gox to manipulate prices. Notice how the price of bitcoin has plunged nearly $30 while this has been going on.

When they get the price down far enough, they'll buy back massive amounts and repeat the process for as long as Mt. Gox allows their API to process massive amount of micro transactions from a single seller.

This process gives them a guaranteed way to buy low and sell high over and over again.

Here's a more detailed explanation from http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238571/Largest_bitcoin_exchange_Mt._Gox_39_throttles_39_trading_to_tame_price_swings:

Miscreants are also trying to manipulate the virtual currency's price by using Mt. Gox's API (application programming interface) to submit trades for very small fractions of bitcoins. It is possible to watch real-time trades on Mt. Gox through services such as Clark Moody's website, which shows Mt. Gox's order book, or the prices at which people want to either sell or buy bitcoins.

During heated trading, it is possible to see a rapid influx of very small quantities of bitcoin on both the buy and the sell side. A sell order for .0111 of a bitcoin, for example, would represent US$1.33 if one bitcoin is trading for $120.

It doesn't appear that buying or selling a $1.33 slice of a bitcoin would be very practical given the small economy so far for bitcoin services, although the market is growing. But entering lots of small sell orders, for example, can give the impression that bitcoin's price is falling even if it doesn't represent the broader market sentiment. Traders can submit more than one transaction using Mt. Gox's API.


Well more likely is that this was two bots that got stuck in a loop against each other. but yes, there is low volume manipulation in trading, however from watching Mt.Gox trading action, I sincerely do not see this manipulation at all. I think more likely the case is people like you are manipulating the sentiment by blaming "manipulators" whenever the price drops. I've watched when the price drops, and did look for manipulation as being the culprit, however it simply is not the case. the price drops because holders of Bitcoin simply wanted to sell for whatever reason (fear).
Stylus
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 04:03:02 PM
#7
This is actually a classic case of how traders are using Mt. Gox to manipulate prices. Notice how the price of bitcoin has plunged nearly $30 while this has been going on.

When they get the price down far enough, they'll buy back massive amounts and repeat the process for as long as Mt. Gox allows their API to process massive amount of micro transactions from a single seller.

This process gives them a guaranteed way to buy low and sell high over and over again.

Here's a more detailed explanation from http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238571/Largest_bitcoin_exchange_Mt._Gox_39_throttles_39_trading_to_tame_price_swings:

Miscreants are also trying to manipulate the virtual currency's price by using Mt. Gox's API (application programming interface) to submit trades for very small fractions of bitcoins. It is possible to watch real-time trades on Mt. Gox through services such as Clark Moody's website, which shows Mt. Gox's order book, or the prices at which people want to either sell or buy bitcoins.

During heated trading, it is possible to see a rapid influx of very small quantities of bitcoin on both the buy and the sell side. A sell order for .0111 of a bitcoin, for example, would represent US$1.33 if one bitcoin is trading for $120.

It doesn't appear that buying or selling a $1.33 slice of a bitcoin would be very practical given the small economy so far for bitcoin services, although the market is growing. But entering lots of small sell orders, for example, can give the impression that bitcoin's price is falling even if it doesn't represent the broader market sentiment. Traders can submit more than one transaction using Mt. Gox's API.
Come-from-Beyond
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
#6
Peter Lambert
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 03:33:35 PM
#5
Quote from: Minor Miner on April 25, 2013, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: Peter Lambert on April 25, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
Wtf is this? Are you trying to make a point?
look at the volume of each trade.

OK, so you listed a bunch of trades with very low volumes. Again, what is your point?
puffpuffpass
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I'm nobody.
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 03:23:56 PM
#4
Quote from: Peter Lambert on April 25, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
Wtf is this? Are you trying to make a point?

wow, you're stupid.
Minor Miner
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1020
Be A Digital Miner
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 03:18:46 PM
#3
Quote from: Peter Lambert on April 25, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
Wtf is this? Are you trying to make a point?
look at the volume of each trade.
Peter Lambert
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
#2
Wtf is this? Are you trying to make a point?
puffpuffpass
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I'm nobody.
Re: Wtf?
April 25, 2013, 03:02:22 PM
#1


Donate: 19hJLtfs5pqv2S4kRySMcnxnCzkNf7rhGS
Data: MtGox  | Lag: 0:00.000  |  Help & Feedback  |  © 2011-2013 Clark Moody. All rights reserved.

15:03:09 > MtGox: Reconnected.

15:03:09 > MtGox: Reconnected to websocket after 1 attempts.

15:03:08 > Attempting connection over websocket

15:03:08 > MtGox: Reconnecting in 1.2 seconds. Attempts: 1

15:03:07 > MtGox: Disconnected.

15:02:07 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0001 BTC

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15:02:04 > Current trend: -0.53655 USD, Volume:0.0100 BTC

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15:01:54 > Current trend: -0.53655 USD, Volume:0.8981 BTC

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15:01:51 > Current trend: -0.08000 USD, Volume:0.0100 BTC

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15:01:38 > Current trend: +0.53655 USD, Volume:51.0347 BTC

15:01:38 > Current trend: +0.53655 USD, Volume:51.0345 BTC

15:01:37 > Direction change up. Volume: 12.2448 BTC

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15:01:30 > Current trend: +0.46655 USD, Volume:10.3419 BTC

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15:01:29 > Current trend: +0.45655 USD, Volume:2.0503 BTC

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15:01:27 > Current trend: -0.45655 USD, Volume:2.6070 BTC

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15:01:21 > Current trend: +0.38999 USD, Volume:0.0566 BTC

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15:01:17 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:16 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:16 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:16 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:16 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:16 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:16 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:15 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:15 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:15 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:15 > Current trend: -0.46999 USD, Volume:0.0104 BTC

15:01:15 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0099 BTC

15:01:15 > Current trend: +0.46999 USD, Volume:0.0104 BTC

15:01:15 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0100 BTC

15:01:14 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:14 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:14 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:14 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:14 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0004 BTC

15:01:14 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:13 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:13 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:13 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:13 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:13 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:13 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:12 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:11 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:11 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:11 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:11 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:11 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:11 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:10 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:10 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:10 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:10 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:10 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:10 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0005 BTC

15:01:09 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:09 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:09 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:09 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:09 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:09 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:08 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:08 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:08 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:08 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:08 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:08 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:07 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:07 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:07 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:07 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:07 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:07 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:06 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:06 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:06 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0006 BTC

15:01:06 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:06 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:06 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:05 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:05 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:05 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:05 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:05 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:05 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:04 > Current trend: -0.46999 USD, Volume:1.6232 BTC

15:01:04 > Current trend: -0.46999 USD, Volume:0.0106 BTC

15:01:03 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0099 BTC

15:01:03 > Current trend: +0.46999 USD, Volume:0.0107 BTC

15:01:03 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0100 BTC

15:01:02 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:02 > Current trend: +0.46999 USD, Volume:133.1407 BTC

15:01:01 > Current trend: +0.46999 USD, Volume:133.0007 BTC

15:01:01 > Direction change up. Volume: 133.0000 BTC

15:01:01 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:00 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:01:00 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:00:59 > Current trend: +0.48999 USD, Volume:2.2882 BTC

15:00:59 > Direction change up. Volume: 2.2874 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0007 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:58 > Current trend: +0.48999 USD, Volume:0.0570 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:58 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:57 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:56 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:56 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:56 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:56 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0008 BTC

15:00:56 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:55 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0009 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Current trend: +0.48999 USD, Volume:6.6195 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:54 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0010 BTC

15:00:53 > Current trend: -0.48999 USD, Volume:0.0110 BTC

15:00:51 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0099 BTC

15:00:50 > Current trend: +0.48999 USD, Volume:0.0110 BTC

15:00:50 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0100 BTC

15:00:50 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:50 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:50 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:49 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:49 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:49 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:49 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:49 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:48 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:48 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:48 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:48 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0011 BTC

15:00:48 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:47 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:47 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:47 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:47 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:47 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:46 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:46 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:46 > Current trend: -0.50000 USD, Volume:16.6368 BTC

15:00:46 > Current trend: -0.50000 USD, Volume:16.6355 BTC

15:00:45 > Current trend: -0.50000 USD, Volume:10.9209 BTC

15:00:45 > Current trend: -0.50000 USD, Volume:10.8209 BTC

15:00:45 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.8209 BTC

15:00:45 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0012 BTC

15:00:45 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:45 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:44 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:44 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:44 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:44 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:43 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:43 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:42 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:42 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0013 BTC

15:00:42 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:42 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:42 > Current trend: -0.39989 USD, Volume:0.0113 BTC

15:00:42 > Current trend: -0.39989 USD, Volume:0.0099 BTC

15:00:42 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0046 BTC

15:00:41 > Current trend: +0.39989 USD, Volume:0.0114 BTC

15:00:41 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0100 BTC

15:00:41 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:41 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:41 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:41 > Current trend: +0.39989 USD, Volume:0.0578 BTC

15:00:40 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0563 BTC

15:00:40 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:40 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0014 BTC

15:00:40 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:40 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:40 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:39 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:39 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:39 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:39 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:39 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:39 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0015 BTC

15:00:38 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0016 BTC

15:00:38 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0016 BTC

15:00:38 > Direction change up. Volume: 0.0016 BTC

15:00:38 > Direction change down. Volume: 0.0016 BTC
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