Topic: WTF Auction #10 - Unique 5 BTC Hybrid Coin - Lealana & Casascius (Read 1095 times)

Same difference as any cold storage item such as a coin or piece of paper no? On an episode of Billions the lead character gives an employee a funded Ledger wallet as payment. Why not just tell him to provide a wallet address to send the coins to ? Transferring it this way keeps the transaction off chain, providing the same advantages a Casascius coin does in this aspect.

As for courier shipping, Anonymous and Krogo (when active) are the way to go. If they are busy I’m open to doing so.

This isn't relevant to transporting collectible crypto coins.  There's already many options for safely accessing your Bitcoin when traveling from country to country, you don't even need to have keys with you, you can store them encrypted in a cloud service and access them anywhere with an internet connection.  The topic here is transporting physical crypto coins.

Yea, I think as BTC price approaches what forum members expect, for loaded coins we will see physical delivery resembling what goes on in the rare art/jewelry/auction space. There are a few companies that solely specialize in high-end items, like Transguardian, which is used by the high-end jewelry industry.

  Then it goes without saying a Trezor or hardwallet will be treated in the same way.

  If it goes that way...then memorize the mnemonic seed...wipe the Trezor clean...and you have nothing to declare..then just place the mnemonic seed upon arrival at destination.

  Or even better...don't take trezor with you.....arrive at destination...buy a new trezor and input the mnemonic seed...voila!    God bless Satoshi!

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.

Agreed! I think COVID is scrambling my brain, I forgot that one day I'll actually be able to leave the country again!

I couldn't agree more!

iBHK8

I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I hear ya on this, however I feel like for a coin of this value it's perfectly suited to hire a crypto courier such as AM, MJ or Krogoth as well as some others who are all are specialists in this field and enjoy doing it for a fair fee. Terms can be easily worked out I'm sure. Everyone I've spoken to all seem extremely reasonably minded folks. So this IMO is the perfect situation for these coins. As BTC rises it's worth hiring a courier. And if people choose not to collect their premium then they can peel therefore enhancing the value of the unpeeled coins by the day. I literally feel like this is a win win situation especially if you're more than happy with hiring a courier for the more expensive items. Just my 2bits. Peel away is fine with me too! These are all good problems to have. It's also nice that if you choose to peel you get a decent free added value from the forks. So I guess it just depends on where each individual's thresholds are. I'm more than happy to pay for a flight to ensure I get my property but that's just me. All the best to everyone!

iBHK8

Yeah I've been thinking about this a bit, because I really wanted it, but for this value coin I feel international shipping, and perhaps even shipping in general, is just not worth the risk. Which means coins like this will start getting peeled more and more often, which is a shame. But given the non 0% chance it gets lost/stolen in the mail, and the $2500 extra value in shit coins, I think if I was selling I would want at least a 10% premium over face value, otherwise safer to just peel. Will also make selling smaller denomination coins pretty difficult if bitcoin goes up a lot, need some kind of decentralized insurance solution with a trusted member or something. Like escrow plus. It's a market friction, which means there is value to be offered and money to made somewhere.

It was a botched auction. 

Why would you sell this for less than peel value?  That's around $2200 right now.

Not sure what happened here with timings and so many other discussions, but I was kinda interested as I PMed u too..

I was one of the people seriously considering it, but between shipping, Insurance, and the uselessness of Australian customs, it was just too much risk. Good chance I would have had to pay a 10% tax if it arrived safely. Tricky one to sell in these times, if I'd been in the USA I would have been all over it.

I botched it, sure enough. Per the terms of the auction, av8rjeff is the winner. I’m not even sure anyone else was going to bid though. Was anyone else planning to? Even if so, av8rjeff just say the word and it’s yours.

I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.

Should still have 33 minutes left no?

4pm MT = 6pm EST = 10:00 PM Sunday utc

^^ This is the winning bid. ^^

PM me your shipping information and escrow preference, and we will be in touch with the details.  Thank you!

This auction is now closed.

I bid 5.00 BTC

If the winner is in the continental USA I would be happy to fly/drive out and personally deliver the coin, however that cost would have to be added to the total amount as some sort of delivery fee.  Or if someone wants to come to Colorado they are more than welcome to come pick it up.  If not, shipping high value items is a thing and I remain confident that it can be shipped safely.

He is wrong and merely guessing.  I'm done saying the same thing over and over.  Take your chance.  Oh.... and ask your buddy if he's certain enough that the USPS would cover it to dig in his pocket if they don't.  I bet you get his real answer.... and if he says yes, get it in writing.

awesome! I cant wait till I have enough trust in this community to offer the service as well! ok - I will be quiet now - back to buying this beautiful coin someone!

    And you really want to go thru that headache or take that chance? No way...i had items lost and it was a nightmare to get anything done or back. Imagine with btc. People will not undeestand our hobby and how it works.

I think it depends who you talk to @ the post office. My friend is a postmaster with almost 10 years experience. He said if you can prove you paid XYZ for it (I explained it as a password to a digital safe) then they shouldn't deny the claim. It's digital property according to the IRS so I don't see how the USPS can consider to be something else.

Yes it is a thing. I am a crypto courier as well. But atm not offering service. So recommend anonminer who is offering

sorry it's off topic - but that is a thing?!?! That would be awesome to do stuff like that, travel, meet people etc!

You can guess on the topic.... or say we will insure it, but you can't..... PERIOD.  Sure the agent will tell you all you want to hear about providing coverage, but when you go to make a claim they will not cover ANY digital value.  It's a fact.  I highly recommend those of you dealing with high end coins to make yourself a bit more informed on this matter.  I have done my research, but no need to trust me... do your own. 

For something this expensive....you either meet personally or hire a crypto courier like Anonminer.

  I would never ever send this by mail. Just my Satoshis

thanks! will do!

I am sure we can get insurance for this, as this is not just a generic wallet or coin with "digital value", this is a unique coin, the only one of its kind in existence!  I have shipped many rare coins insured (numismatics mostly), and if we set it up the right way, meaning we treat it as a rare numismatic piece, not a physical wallet, I don't see why it wouldn't work this time.  However, if anyone wants to bid with a disclaimer that the bid is only valid if it can be confirmed that the shipping can be insured, I am happy to abide under that condition. 

Read Smothie's original auction post, there's more info here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lealana-casascius-2012-5-btc-brass-hybrid-auction-1145131

  In person safest and best. I don't think any carrier covers any digital value.

MJ when I have shipped high dollar crypto coins I always use USPS registered mail. You are telling me in case of loss they would not pay out the full value I insured for? At least registered mail is very secure, never had a problem. In that case what is the best method of shipping a very expensive coin like this one?

100% they do not cover digital value!!  ICG made a collector whole and most came from their own pockets as insurance does not cover digital value.  There was a theft by a postal worker on a package they sent out.  It was an inside job at the post office.  Insurance covered the precious metals and a touch more, but that was it.

Have you ever had to file a claim?

USPS Website States:

Proof of Value, Replacement, or Repair Costs

"The final or complete transaction sheet indicating the amount deducted from an Internet account to pay for the item."

Would a Bitcoin transaction that includes the USD at the time of the transaction suffice for this?

Would these fall under their "gift card" category?

gotcha! thanks. I recognized the coin as Casascius - I just didnt realize that with the holo coming from Lealana would be the reason - but it makes sense. I was thinking that both were produced at the same time but I can see how that can easily not always be the case.

I am always continuing to learn here, thanks again!

I am just starting to learn about these coins, so if my questions are stupid, I apologize - why does the year on the front (2012) not match the date on the back (2013)? Is it coin made in 2012 and funded in 2013?

A few folks have asked for some more information regarding shipping and insurance, as well as for some more photos.

Someone asked about the photos, they appear to show a scratch, and whether or not the scratch is on the coin or the air-tite, and it's on the air-tite.  I took the coin out of the holder and took the following additional photos: https://postimg.cc/gallery/44Bj3LD

As to shipping and insurance, UPS offers high value goods shipping which includes options to insure up to $100,000 for international shipments, or up to $150,000 for domestic (USA).  If someone bids on this coin and wins, I would be more than happy to cover the cost of the insurance (winner still pays the $30 domestic shipping fee, or international shipping fee. I will cover insurance): https://upscapital.com/product-services/high-value-goods-parcel-pro/

I can help with grading and courier service (depending on country) once the borders open up.  Happy to help and I have plenty of references.  Hope this helps.  Good luck with your sale.

Man, this is an interesting one. On one hand I would love to bid. On the other hand, it's a lot to have tied up in one international shipment at the moment, I'm not sure if I could handle the stress. Not 100% decided either way, but for something of this value I may want to wait until I'm allowed to fly internationally to come pick it up in person.

MAY 24, 2020 AUCTION - UNIQUE 5 BTC HYBRID COIN - LEALANA & CASASCIUS

***Carefully read this auction post in its entirety before bidding***

This auction ends Sunday May 31, 2020 at 4:00pm Mountain Daylight Time (UTC -6).

BIDDING AND PAYMENT

Minimum bid will start at 5 BTC. Bidding will be done in minimum increments of 0.005 BTC (all bids must be a multiple of 0.005). Bitcoin is the ONLY accepted form of payment for this auction. Please bid in the following format:

CORRECT FORMAT: "I bid 5.005 BTC"

INCORRECT FORMAT: "I bid 5.123456 BTC"

Should bids come in within 5 minutes of the end of the auction, the auction will be extended according to the following rules. For each bid which comes in within the last 5 minutes of the auction, the auction will be extended by 1 minute per each additional bid. For example, if 3 bids are made within the last 5 minutes, the auction will be extended by 3 minutes. Each additional bid made after the originally scheduled auction end will also extend the auction by one additional minute. This will be measured by the minute, not by the second. Following the above example, if a bid comes in at 4:02 MDT (within the 3 minute extension), the auction will be extended by one minute to 4:04 MDT. If another bid comes in at 4:03:59, the auction will be extended to 4:05:00. If the next bid comes in at 4:05:01, the auction will be extended to 4:06:00. Official bid time records will be determined by the timestamp posted on your bid reply. Upon the auction end, I will announce the winner and declare the end of the auction.

THE COIN

Up for auction is a true rarity - a unique 5 BTC coin manufactured by Lealana and Casascius. The coin is fully funded per the terms set forth by Smoothie when he sold the coin originally.

The original auction thread where I won it from Smoothie can be found here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lealana-casascius-2012-5-btc-brass-hybrid-auction-1145131

Please review the above, as there is much info about the coin in that thread.

My "Interest Check" thread from 2017 can be found here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/interest-check-wts-lealana-casascius-2012-5-btc-brass-hybrid-1930352

The coin will be sold as received by me, in a plastic airtite with Lealana business card. See photos for details. Keep in mind that at this point, due to the several hard forks by BTC since this coin was made, this coin is still funded with not only the 5 regular BTC, but is funded with 5 Bitcoin Gold, 5 Bitcoin Cash, etc.

Picture Gallery: https://postimg.cc/gallery/xdh2jkd

Coin address: https://blockchain.info/address/1BTCAmZgMYFKSwc3Dc6wPwwkKmnJaxgvkV

ESCROW and SHIPPING

I have been in contact with both OgNasty and minerjones, and both have offered to provide escrow services for this auction for a 1% fee/gift. This 1% of the auction total will be split between myself and the winning bidder. This means that if you are the winning bidder, you will need to budget an additional 0.5% of the winning total for your share of the escrow. If you are the winner of the auction, please let me know your preferred escrow agent. If you would prefer a different escrow provider, please PM me before you bid so we can work out a mutually agreed upon third option. Other escrow providers can be found here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/recommended-bitcointalk-escrow-services-2439910

Shipping in the USA will be $30. This shipping cost will be added to the total of the winning bid after the auction ends. Shipping will be via USPS registered mail (which requires a signature upon delivery).

Shipping outside the USA will be managed by minerjones, who has offered to facilitate international shipping for this auction. The winning bidder can choose from USPS, Global Post, UPS, and Fedex. If you are the winning bidder and are outside the US, after the auction ends I will be in touch along with minerjones to coordinate shipping and cost. This cost will then be added to the total of the winning bid. I will ship the coin(s) to minerjones via USPS registered mail, after which he will send to you. Please be aware this method of shipping will take longer than conventional post, because of all these additional safeguards we are utilizing to ensure a successful delivery of your coin(s).

After working out shipping, upon successful payment to the escrow agent, your coin(s) will be shipped within 24 hours or as soon as reasonably possible.

Please do not send payment to any wallet address until shipping and escrow have been determined. Payment will be sent to the escrow agent's wallet; please refer to your selected escrow agent's escrow thread for their payment address.

Escrow arrangement, shipping arrangement, and payment are all due within 72 hours from the time the auction ends. Should the winner not honor their bid and not provide payment in that 72 period, the next highest bidder will be requested to honor their bid.

AUCTION WINNER INFORMATION:

If you win, please PM me immediately with all of the following information:

FIRST AND LAST NAME
STREET ADDRESS & BUILDING/SUITE #
CITY
STATE
COUNTRY
POSTAL CODE
PHONE NUMBER
EMAIL ADDRESS

If you have reservations posting your private info over a PM on this forum, please use the following private note service to send me a private link with the above information: https://privnote.io/#

~FINAL NOTE~

Please be aware, if you partake in this or any of my other auctions, please expect that you will receive fake PMs from impostors pretending to be me or anyone else involved in the auction, likely to try and get you to send coins to other addresses. Please be diligent and make sure you take all reasonable precautions to not get fooled by the inevitable scammers who will try and scam you, and me, and everyone else they can.