I never post anything but, listened to the talk. This guy has no clue about history. He claims the fed was created to save the economy from the depression. When in fact the fed destroyed the US and caused the depression. How can a professor be so ignorant of facts? The classic gold standard was the only thing saving the USD until 1913.
Topic: Yanis-Varoufakis-Greece, Bitcoin WILL save them from Europe. It won't be pretty. - page 4. (Read 6213 times)
February 10, 2015, 02:49:25 PM
February 10, 2015, 12:31:22 PM
February 10, 2015, 11:04:09 AM
Nothing will happen in the next days for greece. If we have dont have a european deal in the next days then is sure that Greek goverment will go to Russia or China for a small loan to cover running cost until summer. This action will return the pressure to Merkel. We must not forget that Varoufakis is a master in Game theory.
I have write to Varoufakis about the new technology era in financial system and that Greece must adopt this new technology as a new invest and new greek development area.
You can see my message here
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/01/27/finance-ministry-slows-blogging-down-but-ends-it-not/
is 8 from the beginning and i write there like spiroseliot.
one last think i like to say is that here in Greece we love guys like varoufakis.
I have write to Varoufakis about the new technology era in financial system and that Greece must adopt this new technology as a new invest and new greek development area.
You can see my message here
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/01/27/finance-ministry-slows-blogging-down-but-ends-it-not/
is 8 from the beginning and i write there like spiroseliot.
one last think i like to say is that here in Greece we love guys like varoufakis.
February 10, 2015, 04:08:13 AM
Yep, bitcoin can save greek people like chypre people. 
human can evolve, if they want ...
human can evolve, if they want ...
I hope that the last step is realized as soon as possible ...
i mean pass from credit card to wallet/bitcoin-altcoin
although I think it will still take years ...
governments, slaves of large financial groups and banks,
will fight hard to denigrate and scuttle the bitcoin
February 10, 2015, 03:24:44 AM
I am a big fan of Yanis Varoufakis and Greece come to that.
Imo bitcoin will never be adopted by Greece or Yanis.
here are his thoughts on bitcoin
source: http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/05/08/digital-economies-markets-money-and-democratic-politics-revisited/
Imo bitcoin will never be adopted by Greece or Yanis.
here are his thoughts on bitcoin
Quote
Before we delve deeper into the debates on Bitcoin and the Future of Money, allow me to state, for the record, my own take on Bitcoin:
Bitcoin is, above all else, a beautiful algorithm.
A brilliant answer in search of a worthy question.
A breath-taking solution to as yet undiscovered problems!
So, contrary to its evangelists’ grand proclamations, democratising and de-politicising money will not be one of Bitcoin’s contibutions to humanity, I am afraid. Indeed, it should not replace government issued money. Put simply, no de-politicised currency is capable of ‘powering’ an advanced, industrial society.
What makes the Bitcoin algorithm ‘beautiful’ is that it makes possible a decentralised network within which trust is built because everyone is monitoring everyone else. There is no sentry. No guardian. No Leviathan who may become tyrannical or fall asleep on the job (as regulators did prior to 2008). Instead there is a type of benign Benthamite Panopticon where everyone is kept honest because everyone else is watching every activity, every exchange, every transaction. It is truly splendid, in that regard.
BUT it is not a sound foundation for an alternative monetary system.
Why not? To begin with, it is tiny in size.
Its total global value in real money is less than the bailout money ‘given’ by European taxpayers to a smallish Greek bank last year.
So far, it is a digital tulip or, to paraphrase Keynes, it is a bubble on a whirlpool of speculation, rather than a bubble on a growing stream of enterprise.
Of course, BITCOIN enthusiasts will argue that what matters is its growth potential.
I am not convinced.
Bitcoin suffers from two separate problems: The Security Problem and the Economic Problem
The Security Problem is that a hacker can hack into your computer and disappear with your BITCOINs. And if you entrust your BITCOINs to an unregulated BITCOIN bank, it is the banker that may run away with your BITCOINs or be hacked himself – the equivalent of a bank robbery. The Mt Gox experience.
The Economic Problem is entirely separate. Whereas the Security Problem may wreck BITCOIN, if BITCOIN is not wrecked and grows into being macro-economically significant, it is BITCOIN that will wreck the economy. Why? Because it is designed to mimic the Gold Standard – the monetary system that caused one depression after the other, from the 19th Century until 1929, and which was replaced because capitalism cannot breathe under an exogenous quantity of money.
To see this, recall that Bitcoin’s value comes from its in-built scarcity and its exogenous quantity that grows on the basis of negative exponential function, that will see to it that the rate of growth diminishes until in a few years it hits zero.
So, if it catches on as a proper currency, rather than as a store of value, then, by definition, the rate of increase in the quantity of goods and services purchased will outpace the rate of increase in the supply of Bitcoins. Thus, the available quantity of Bitcoins per each unit of output will be falling causing deflation. And why is this a problem? Because even if all prices fall at once, people’s debt will not and a chain reaction of insolvencies will hit us, causing the worst fate of any market economy: Debt Deflation. Think Great Depression here in the United States, or Greece today
Bitcoin is, above all else, a beautiful algorithm.
A brilliant answer in search of a worthy question.
A breath-taking solution to as yet undiscovered problems!
So, contrary to its evangelists’ grand proclamations, democratising and de-politicising money will not be one of Bitcoin’s contibutions to humanity, I am afraid. Indeed, it should not replace government issued money. Put simply, no de-politicised currency is capable of ‘powering’ an advanced, industrial society.
What makes the Bitcoin algorithm ‘beautiful’ is that it makes possible a decentralised network within which trust is built because everyone is monitoring everyone else. There is no sentry. No guardian. No Leviathan who may become tyrannical or fall asleep on the job (as regulators did prior to 2008). Instead there is a type of benign Benthamite Panopticon where everyone is kept honest because everyone else is watching every activity, every exchange, every transaction. It is truly splendid, in that regard.
BUT it is not a sound foundation for an alternative monetary system.
Why not? To begin with, it is tiny in size.
Its total global value in real money is less than the bailout money ‘given’ by European taxpayers to a smallish Greek bank last year.
So far, it is a digital tulip or, to paraphrase Keynes, it is a bubble on a whirlpool of speculation, rather than a bubble on a growing stream of enterprise.
Of course, BITCOIN enthusiasts will argue that what matters is its growth potential.
I am not convinced.
Bitcoin suffers from two separate problems: The Security Problem and the Economic Problem
The Security Problem is that a hacker can hack into your computer and disappear with your BITCOINs. And if you entrust your BITCOINs to an unregulated BITCOIN bank, it is the banker that may run away with your BITCOINs or be hacked himself – the equivalent of a bank robbery. The Mt Gox experience.
The Economic Problem is entirely separate. Whereas the Security Problem may wreck BITCOIN, if BITCOIN is not wrecked and grows into being macro-economically significant, it is BITCOIN that will wreck the economy. Why? Because it is designed to mimic the Gold Standard – the monetary system that caused one depression after the other, from the 19th Century until 1929, and which was replaced because capitalism cannot breathe under an exogenous quantity of money.
To see this, recall that Bitcoin’s value comes from its in-built scarcity and its exogenous quantity that grows on the basis of negative exponential function, that will see to it that the rate of growth diminishes until in a few years it hits zero.
So, if it catches on as a proper currency, rather than as a store of value, then, by definition, the rate of increase in the quantity of goods and services purchased will outpace the rate of increase in the supply of Bitcoins. Thus, the available quantity of Bitcoins per each unit of output will be falling causing deflation. And why is this a problem? Because even if all prices fall at once, people’s debt will not and a chain reaction of insolvencies will hit us, causing the worst fate of any market economy: Debt Deflation. Think Great Depression here in the United States, or Greece today
source: http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/05/08/digital-economies-markets-money-and-democratic-politics-revisited/
Right, although he had personally invested (dirty capitalist!! ^^) in Tembusu Systems, which recently raised over a million $$..
Quote
Tembusu Systems Pte Ltd was founded in October 2013 and developed the TRUST system, which is based on next-generation distributed blockchain technology. The company made headlines when they unveiled Asia’s first Bitcoin ATM in Singapore, the Tembusu Prime Bitcoin ATM, in February 2014 under the name Tembusu Terminals Pte Ltd. www.tembusu.sg
Quote
“We see massive potential in how the TRUST platform can be used by corporations and financial institutions. We are looking at what may well be a paradigm shift in accounting, commerce and banking, and are encouraged because this round of funding shows the strength and relevance of the technology,” said Prof. Varoufakis before his electoral campaign.
> http://theindependent.sg/blog/2015/01/29/tembusus-bold-cryptocurrency-plan-secures-1-million-boost/
discl: I dont like him, seems dodgie. yet another status quo puppet.
February 10, 2015, 03:20:07 AM
If Varoufakis is determined to return to drachma, I would recommend him to buy 10.000 Bitcoins first and inform the world about those Greek Bitcoin reserves.
It should help Greece to keep on paying pensions. It would be the powerful move of a master.
It should help Greece to keep on paying pensions. It would be the powerful move of a master.
February 09, 2015, 11:55:04 PM
So, if it catches on as a proper currency, rather than as a store of value, then, by definition, the rate of increase in the quantity of goods and services purchased will outpace the rate of increase in the supply of Bitcoins. Thus, the available quantity of Bitcoins per each unit of output will be falling causing deflation. And why is this a problem? Because even if all prices fall at once, people’s debt will not and a chain reaction of insolvencies will hit us, causing the worst fate of any market economy: Debt Deflation. Think Great Depression here in the United States, or Greece today
The more the thieves and parasites hate on Bitcoin, the more we know it's the right solution. February 09, 2015, 11:50:01 PM
Crypto will take years if not decades for ordinary citizens to adopt. In the mean time why not force our elected officials and governments to use a blockchain for government spending? This would force them to be a little more cautious on pet projects and paybacks to donors.
February 09, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
Varoufakis donest believe in Bitcoin as a replacement of national fiat currencies at all, and I dont think nothing can change his views on this so I dont see it OP.
No government will replace their fiat with Bitcoin, they can't control Bitcoin like they can Fiat. February 09, 2015, 08:40:57 PM
Varoufakis donest believe in Bitcoin as a replacement of national fiat currencies at all, and I dont think nothing can change his views on this so I dont see it OP.
Its also not necessarily about him, as the answer to their debt problem, just like everyone else is going to be decentralization. Families could be funded on gofundme. and other crowd sourcing platforms. It is possible….
Bitcoin does not care what Yanis has to say. And nothing can stop the greeks from changing…
When I speak of manhattan style project, the BITCOIN COMMUNITY needs to unleash like thousands of little bitcoin drone people to explain and show how bitcoin work, while opening shops through out the country be mobile phones, bitcoin wallets, the venture capitalist have to just dive in essentially and transform it…..
^^…...because the greek people are retarded and old school
February 09, 2015, 06:26:06 PM
Varoufakis donest believe in Bitcoin as a replacement of national fiat currencies at all, and I dont think nothing can change his views on this so I dont see it OP.
February 09, 2015, 06:00:38 PM
I am a big fan of Yanis Varoufakis and Greece come to that.
Imo bitcoin will never be adopted by Greece or Yanis.
here are his thoughts on bitcoin
source: http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/05/08/digital-economies-markets-money-and-democratic-politics-revisited/
Imo bitcoin will never be adopted by Greece or Yanis.
here are his thoughts on bitcoin
Quote
Before we delve deeper into the debates on Bitcoin and the Future of Money, allow me to state, for the record, my own take on Bitcoin:
Bitcoin is, above all else, a beautiful algorithm.
A brilliant answer in search of a worthy question.
A breath-taking solution to as yet undiscovered problems!
So, contrary to its evangelists’ grand proclamations, democratising and de-politicising money will not be one of Bitcoin’s contibutions to humanity, I am afraid. Indeed, it should not replace government issued money. Put simply, no de-politicised currency is capable of ‘powering’ an advanced, industrial society.
What makes the Bitcoin algorithm ‘beautiful’ is that it makes possible a decentralised network within which trust is built because everyone is monitoring everyone else. There is no sentry. No guardian. No Leviathan who may become tyrannical or fall asleep on the job (as regulators did prior to 2008). Instead there is a type of benign Benthamite Panopticon where everyone is kept honest because everyone else is watching every activity, every exchange, every transaction. It is truly splendid, in that regard.
BUT it is not a sound foundation for an alternative monetary system.
Why not? To begin with, it is tiny in size.
Its total global value in real money is less than the bailout money ‘given’ by European taxpayers to a smallish Greek bank last year.
So far, it is a digital tulip or, to paraphrase Keynes, it is a bubble on a whirlpool of speculation, rather than a bubble on a growing stream of enterprise.
Of course, BITCOIN enthusiasts will argue that what matters is its growth potential.
I am not convinced.
Bitcoin suffers from two separate problems: The Security Problem and the Economic Problem
The Security Problem is that a hacker can hack into your computer and disappear with your BITCOINs. And if you entrust your BITCOINs to an unregulated BITCOIN bank, it is the banker that may run away with your BITCOINs or be hacked himself – the equivalent of a bank robbery. The Mt Gox experience.
The Economic Problem is entirely separate. Whereas the Security Problem may wreck BITCOIN, if BITCOIN is not wrecked and grows into being macro-economically significant, it is BITCOIN that will wreck the economy. Why? Because it is designed to mimic the Gold Standard – the monetary system that caused one depression after the other, from the 19th Century until 1929, and which was replaced because capitalism cannot breathe under an exogenous quantity of money.
To see this, recall that Bitcoin’s value comes from its in-built scarcity and its exogenous quantity that grows on the basis of negative exponential function, that will see to it that the rate of growth diminishes until in a few years it hits zero.
So, if it catches on as a proper currency, rather than as a store of value, then, by definition, the rate of increase in the quantity of goods and services purchased will outpace the rate of increase in the supply of Bitcoins. Thus, the available quantity of Bitcoins per each unit of output will be falling causing deflation. And why is this a problem? Because even if all prices fall at once, people’s debt will not and a chain reaction of insolvencies will hit us, causing the worst fate of any market economy: Debt Deflation. Think Great Depression here in the United States, or Greece today
Bitcoin is, above all else, a beautiful algorithm.
A brilliant answer in search of a worthy question.
A breath-taking solution to as yet undiscovered problems!
So, contrary to its evangelists’ grand proclamations, democratising and de-politicising money will not be one of Bitcoin’s contibutions to humanity, I am afraid. Indeed, it should not replace government issued money. Put simply, no de-politicised currency is capable of ‘powering’ an advanced, industrial society.
What makes the Bitcoin algorithm ‘beautiful’ is that it makes possible a decentralised network within which trust is built because everyone is monitoring everyone else. There is no sentry. No guardian. No Leviathan who may become tyrannical or fall asleep on the job (as regulators did prior to 2008). Instead there is a type of benign Benthamite Panopticon where everyone is kept honest because everyone else is watching every activity, every exchange, every transaction. It is truly splendid, in that regard.
BUT it is not a sound foundation for an alternative monetary system.
Why not? To begin with, it is tiny in size.
Its total global value in real money is less than the bailout money ‘given’ by European taxpayers to a smallish Greek bank last year.
So far, it is a digital tulip or, to paraphrase Keynes, it is a bubble on a whirlpool of speculation, rather than a bubble on a growing stream of enterprise.
Of course, BITCOIN enthusiasts will argue that what matters is its growth potential.
I am not convinced.
Bitcoin suffers from two separate problems: The Security Problem and the Economic Problem
The Security Problem is that a hacker can hack into your computer and disappear with your BITCOINs. And if you entrust your BITCOINs to an unregulated BITCOIN bank, it is the banker that may run away with your BITCOINs or be hacked himself – the equivalent of a bank robbery. The Mt Gox experience.
The Economic Problem is entirely separate. Whereas the Security Problem may wreck BITCOIN, if BITCOIN is not wrecked and grows into being macro-economically significant, it is BITCOIN that will wreck the economy. Why? Because it is designed to mimic the Gold Standard – the monetary system that caused one depression after the other, from the 19th Century until 1929, and which was replaced because capitalism cannot breathe under an exogenous quantity of money.
To see this, recall that Bitcoin’s value comes from its in-built scarcity and its exogenous quantity that grows on the basis of negative exponential function, that will see to it that the rate of growth diminishes until in a few years it hits zero.
So, if it catches on as a proper currency, rather than as a store of value, then, by definition, the rate of increase in the quantity of goods and services purchased will outpace the rate of increase in the supply of Bitcoins. Thus, the available quantity of Bitcoins per each unit of output will be falling causing deflation. And why is this a problem? Because even if all prices fall at once, people’s debt will not and a chain reaction of insolvencies will hit us, causing the worst fate of any market economy: Debt Deflation. Think Great Depression here in the United States, or Greece today
source: http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/05/08/digital-economies-markets-money-and-democratic-politics-revisited/
February 09, 2015, 05:32:34 PM
Im extremely interested in the outcome of Greece, i'll listen to this later. But in any case I dont see them making Bitcoin the official Greece coin so to speak. People is too dumb to adapt all of a sudden to Bitcoin. Its too crazy and experimental to make it the currency of an entire nation.
Then again they are in a dead end on the 28th, unless they arrive at agreement with Merkel which is not gonna happen.
Then again they are in a dead end on the 28th, unless they arrive at agreement with Merkel which is not gonna happen.
February 09, 2015, 04:37:29 PM
Yep, bitcoin can save greek people like chypre people.
human can evolve, if they want ...
human can evolve, if they want ...
February 09, 2015, 04:28:36 PM
The radicalness of this new government and their desires to fulfill the promise the people voted them in, they must follow through on that duty if they want to get re-elected, that is how the current government is viewing their win in this election. If this is the case, and they fulfill their goals, this will be a major radical shift in the types of governments winning power. (The democrat/republican will become a thing of the past oh so I hope) So keep that in mind with all that is happening in the world. The world is mutating and changing like an organism metamorphosing very rapidly. So these fringe elements are really beginning to make their way into the center of mainstream society/dialog.
Once more capital controls get put into place, and economies crater, government get more hostile, there will be a an entire revolt.
Should the Euro drop Greek funding, let the banks go completely insolvent. Here is a chance for bitcoin to and the families and business in Greece to utilize the block chain in the same way of the early days of the United state, and much of the world for that matter. If you wanted a piece of land you just had to go and claim it. Similarly, the greek people can claim THEIR property, titles, deeds etc on the blockchain, However, crowdsourcing will be required to help Greece from not becoming a blackhole.
An entire paradigm shift around banking and community needs to begin, the people supporting the people. We have the power of the internet, and a MASSIVE wealth(DOLLARS that can flow into bitcoin to aid Greece) to accomplish this. There are enough competent people is Greece to do this, Yanis Varoufakis is 100% bitcoin literate, he an Andreas Antonopoulos got into a very intellectual discussion regarding bitcoin
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/03/13/debating-bitcoin-on-abc-late-night-live-with-phillip-adams-and-andreas-andreopoulos/
(Yanis is not in favor of bitcoin, but this can change, he actually really likes bitcoin but has major legitimate doubts)
This is going to be a Manhattan type project for bitcoin to undertake. Initially any money invest is going to likely enter a black hole and will never be seen again, but if enough money and resources can be given the greek people eventually the the black hole will fill in and become a pile of money/resources/credits, free of debts, nothing but innovation and incredible advances in quality of life will potentially take place. The final product needs to be a situation in which enough Greek people have enough bitcoin wealth to begin to participate in their own economy and with the world.
This might be an entire restructuring as when they run out of money, entire businesses and supply chains fail. When the these things eventually get back in action, entire demands and product can change, rendering the failed businesses entirely obsolete. While a shit and unfortunate situation, it gets rid of the old to make way for the new.
Once this happens, for obvious reason there will be a cascade affect on the rest of the world, if somehow the Greek and the bitcoin community come together to ensure the greek people have the resources they need to restructure the economy in-house without owing a giant debt, affording them to move forward in a truly demorcratics representive society, demand based economy, built around the block chain technology. Voting may perhaps become a bitcoin thing if designated addresses can be given to each member in society, Colored coins.. use your imagination and there will be a method found that gets used for voting.
This may be perhaps where governments can instead of going back to the drachma, simply create their own crypto currency. Their may be some use in having multiple alt coins, but that is getting into a discussion much further in the future until we truly see how bitcoin can work around some of the thorny issues regarding hacking.
Once more capital controls get put into place, and economies crater, government get more hostile, there will be a an entire revolt.
Should the Euro drop Greek funding, let the banks go completely insolvent. Here is a chance for bitcoin to and the families and business in Greece to utilize the block chain in the same way of the early days of the United state, and much of the world for that matter. If you wanted a piece of land you just had to go and claim it. Similarly, the greek people can claim THEIR property, titles, deeds etc on the blockchain, However, crowdsourcing will be required to help Greece from not becoming a blackhole.
An entire paradigm shift around banking and community needs to begin, the people supporting the people. We have the power of the internet, and a MASSIVE wealth(DOLLARS that can flow into bitcoin to aid Greece) to accomplish this. There are enough competent people is Greece to do this, Yanis Varoufakis is 100% bitcoin literate, he an Andreas Antonopoulos got into a very intellectual discussion regarding bitcoin
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/03/13/debating-bitcoin-on-abc-late-night-live-with-phillip-adams-and-andreas-andreopoulos/
(Yanis is not in favor of bitcoin, but this can change, he actually really likes bitcoin but has major legitimate doubts)
This is going to be a Manhattan type project for bitcoin to undertake. Initially any money invest is going to likely enter a black hole and will never be seen again, but if enough money and resources can be given the greek people eventually the the black hole will fill in and become a pile of money/resources/credits, free of debts, nothing but innovation and incredible advances in quality of life will potentially take place. The final product needs to be a situation in which enough Greek people have enough bitcoin wealth to begin to participate in their own economy and with the world.
This might be an entire restructuring as when they run out of money, entire businesses and supply chains fail. When the these things eventually get back in action, entire demands and product can change, rendering the failed businesses entirely obsolete. While a shit and unfortunate situation, it gets rid of the old to make way for the new.
Once this happens, for obvious reason there will be a cascade affect on the rest of the world, if somehow the Greek and the bitcoin community come together to ensure the greek people have the resources they need to restructure the economy in-house without owing a giant debt, affording them to move forward in a truly demorcratics representive society, demand based economy, built around the block chain technology. Voting may perhaps become a bitcoin thing if designated addresses can be given to each member in society, Colored coins.. use your imagination and there will be a method found that gets used for voting.
This may be perhaps where governments can instead of going back to the drachma, simply create their own crypto currency. Their may be some use in having multiple alt coins, but that is getting into a discussion much further in the future until we truly see how bitcoin can work around some of the thorny issues regarding hacking.
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