Topic: Yet another "Merit" post....please just hear me out for a minute. (Read 343 times)

Agreed. This system doesn't work as it's supposed to do. It might help reduce scammers, but, sadly, also the potential of real users.

I hope this system is removed or changed a lot. Merits aren't like "Likes on Facebook"... Not at all. People on here just don't like giving them away, I think, because they either got only a limited amount of them, or they don't know what to give them to.
Then the people who deserve the merits don't get them and some random posts, often written by a known member, gain many. The only fair distribution at this moment is the threads of people offering to distribute their sMerits to good posters, but those threads shouldn't be needed.


Yes, it's better than before, but if we want this system to be a good system instead of a crappy temporary fix, we gotta improve it. Complaining is a great way of collecting aspects that could be improved.

Though I must agree that the current system is mainly annoying to shitposters, quality posters also feel the consequences. Getting 250 merit to rankup to Hero won't be easy and would require either luck, trading merits or asking people in their threads to merit my posts.
Luck is something that isn't made for me and many others like me, trading merits is against the rules and I would prefer not to break the law. So, that's gonna be "applying" for merits in people's threads... A good system shouldn't require that.

Anyways, I understand your ignorance: You're legendary and, thus, don't have that problem.

I agree with you to some extent. Old members should also be put to test as this will eliminate those who achieved higher ranks just because of activity. There can be an option like loosing the rank if the member fails to get certain number of merits. I think the admin might be having something like this in mind to implement in future. He might be waiting for the default merit points to get finished before implementing new change. Any member who is posting quality content will remain unaffected by any such future change irrespective of his rank.

A lot of people here won't understand what Vod isn't saying here, which is that the merit system came about because of the shitposting problem, which is a direct result of users who get paid for their signature space--and ATS and other forums don't have that key feature, so they don't need a system like this.  Low-ranked garbage posters are going to complain about this for as long as merits are around. 

It may take a lot more time and effort to get a higher rank, but we as a forum needed the merit system very badly.   It's not a perfect solution by any means, but it is far better than what was happening before January 2018. 

Noobs might lack this perspective, so I hope they read this here post and do a little history research.

See, I have observed a lot of new members are not worried because of their issue that they are have trouble ranking up. They are worried that why senior members got the privilege and had no such requirements. If there is an additional requirement like getting some merits per year to retaining the current rank, will you be happy ? Note that this will not make things easier for you or other new members. Between all this fight we are forgetting the reason why the merit system was introduced. It was needed to stop or say reduce the spam here. Why are we not content with the stats showing that it has achieved that purpose to some extent.

Hey @99th, thanks for the intro.

I'm going to start by saying that you sound jaded. Extremely jaded. I understand your frustration about the ranking up thing, as I have to earn several hundred merit in order to reach Legendary status. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: I could give a shit less about the politics behind the merit system. Why? Because while it may affect newbies from ranking up within the first week or two of joining the forums, the system was introduced (and well thought-out, if I may add) for the long term benefits. Ranking up from Member to Full Member to Sr. Member to Hero takes months, unlike the mere days or weeks it takes for Newbie to Jr. Member to Member. Within those many months, earning merit here and there for constructive and contributive posts shouldn't be that difficult. Hell, you've already received some merits for your posts, so the system is working perfectly.

The points you've raised are all short-term problems.


Merit swapping will be short-lived. What happens when the default sMerit is dried up and there is no more sMerit to fraudulently award? The only way to effectively "farm" merit in the coming weeks and perpetuity will be... wait for it... actually posting constructively throughout the forums! :O


Here's the thing about warning posts about scam sites... You're reaching a very limited audience. I, personally, do not have any interest in Otho.network (your latest scam warning), so why would I be obliged to leave you a merit for this warning about a site that I have no intention of using? Your intentions are great, but you're reaching a limited audience.

Same goes for your posts about altcoins. There are currently not as many merit sources for the altcoin sections as there are for the bitcoin sections. While some of your posts in the altcoin sections may be worthy of merit, again, you have a limited audience (compared to the bitcoin audience) with a more limited supply of merits.

Additionally, the stuff that you shill (ICO's, bounties, earnings resources) are generally stuff that does not interest anyone but the newbies to cryptocurrency. You're also limiting your potential to receive merits by posting these things.

I'm in no way trying to cut you down or attack you, but I'm just stating my opinions in response to why you find the merit system to be flawed. It's been less than a couple of months, which isn't enough time to see the system do its thing. Yes, all we see are posts about merit and merit trading/buying/etc at the moment, but as many have mentioned, once the sMerits are dried up from all the farm accounts, the system will work as it's intended. The newer members that display a genuine interest will be rewarded, as their posts will become a lot more visible once the mass exodus (of shitposters and accounts that cannot level up) happens.

Just give it time. I know you think the system is flawed, but as someone who is stuck in limbo of ranking up, I understand. But I'm in no rush and I have no doubt that I'll easily earn the several hundred merits I'll need to rank up.

I'm interested in knowing the links to some of these other forums!

Do they allow you to make money just by posting, like this one?

Yeah, it's good for you if you keep thinking about merit system and older, higher-rank members this way. Simply I can call it as negative viewpoint, which can negatively affect your contribution to the forum.

1. Higher rank members actually have more knowledge, more experiences, more blockchain-based skills, more bitcointalk-forum-related skills, and more things, which help them to get more money. But the important things are they also help lots of other users in the forum, including newcomers, newbies, junior members, full members and even Sr. Members or Hero members. That's the way they have contributed to our forum.

2. I can not deny the fact that there are several Sr. Members, Hero and Ledgendary members who are not qualified because they are luckily ranked up and had current ranks due to old ranking system. But if they are Sr. mem. or Hero Mem.; they will stay there forever as magic effects of merit system.
You should realize this important point.

Lastly, you should open your soul to write and contribute high-quality posts to the forum. It's good for both yourself and all forum members at all ranks.

 

But thats how the world works too, we cant just say "Everyone hand back all their money and we'll redistribute it more evenly!".
There will always be people who break free of the middle/lower class and join the rich ranks, through hard work and determination, which is what this merit system is calling for.

Dude get over it. We know that merit system had some flaws such as merit farming but accept the fact this system wouldn't be removed sooner or later you must accept it and besides this system was intended to make constructive posts (like yours) and fight off one line spamming in this forum. Atleast theymos made a good move to remove the spam atleast in our forum unlike before that you will likely neg-rated by DT Members if your posts were found one-line and spammy

P.S. the guy that you are arguing with is hilariousandco's alt account a global moderator.

I dont see high ranking people act as an elitist, i think it is normal, because they are here since the forum is on the control and now the forum is out of control and there are so many shitposting, spamming, and other problems.
That is true, just because they created an account here a while ago doesnt mean they are GOD, but because you are new here then you can not talk easily about something on this forum and throwing a random tantrum about this forum system. You are new, and maybe has not contribute anything, yet you demand something big for this forum? Think again mate, who does think he/she is a god him/herself, high rank people or you?

You're the negative one here not to mention very cynical. You'll only stay the same rank if you're a shitposter with nothing worthwhile to contribute and if that's the case I'm glad these people will get nowhere and the system will work as intended. Contribute something and stop whining and being lazy and you'll get your rank over time once you earn it.


I think you should learn to speak English because the proper spelling is actually 'demoralised'. Attacking someone's spelling is always a petty and childish ad hominem usually from people incapable of making a valid argument but incredibly ironic when you get it wrong. Also, I think it should be you who's creating a new forum since you obviously know how to run one best (yet offer no actual solutions).


What does being new have to do about it? Ignorance on your part isn't an excuse but not sure how you only realiSed account sales took place once merit was introduced. You obviously knew about ranks so why did you not complain about those not being fair and that you're not magically and instantly a Hero member with avatar?


Oh, a forum to discuss aliens and 9/11 conspiracies that has been infiltrated by the government lol. That explains a lot about you. You do know the illuminati runs this one, right?


Yes, there will always be shitposting on forums but not to the extent there is here because this forum is pretty much the only one where you can get paid to post which exacerbates the issue a hundredfold and hence why people sign up with dozens to hundreds of accounts each just to shitpost. The merit system now heftily curbs that behaviour, but again, you've offered absolutely no suggestions at all other than childish whining. Please let me know when you come up with something that will work better and I'll pass it on to the admins.

Exactly, so his constructive posts are being rewarded and if he keeps going the way he is, he'll rank up--thus the system is working as it was intended to for him.

There are flaws in the merit system, yes, but I have to say that it's so much better than the way it was before January.  There were a lot of members (including myself) who were getting very frustrated with inaction on Theymos's part, and the fact that the shitposting problem was addressed by him with some major changes being implemented--that was huge. 

And the main improvement that I see is that there's now a quality variable to ranking up, not just a time one.  Yes, people are at the mercy of other members, but hey.  It's much, much better than the chaos that we had.  At least Theymos did something.  Even if that something isn't perfect, it's better than doing nothing.

Google ATS - it stands for Above Top Secret. Before that forum got infiltrated by the government it was the the best forums on the planet for that type of content and the largest too. And yes, they found a VERY good way to deal with a similar system to "merit". Nothing is perfect, but it is definitely better than this one, even after all their faults over the years since I left.

There will always be shitposting in large community forums. Dude are you new to this shit? But the idea is supposed to be to promote better quality posting, not give people with old accounts a new way to abuse them.

You got a few merits for decent posts, so it seems to be working for you. Analyzing those and continuing in that direction would pay off.

But overwhelmingly you are a bounty hunter and the pages of twitter spam are a turnoff for me.

I am about to run out of merits to pass anyway.

Poor you. Why were you not making any of these points about the ranking or feedback system? Because they all apply, though I guess before all people had to bare was time and not actually bother putting effort in to making any posts of substance and hey presto you get the rank you want. People complained about the exact same things when the signature restrictions were put into place. Wah wah wah now I have to wait eight months to be a Senior. They got over it but it was those changes that drove the real price of accounts and essentially created the entire market in the first place. You didn't seem to complain about the rich getting richer then.


These people can get demoralized all they want because these sorts are not wanted here. If your only reason to be here is just to get merit so you can move through the ranks to be paid for contributing little to nothing then I hope they get so demoralised that they just give up and leave. They wont though. They'll just keep complaining because life is a bit harder now lazy posting gets you nowhere.


Again, why did you not complain about people selling accounts or trust?


What is ATS and have they somehow found a perfect way to let people get paid for posting whilst stopping shitposting and account farming? You've offered no suggestions here at all other than "just try something new". Well the merit system is trying something new and it does actually work at curbing shitposting but that doesn't mean it can't be exploited but any good thing can be exploited for bad purposes by nefarious or unscrupulous people. I would prefer signatures are just banned from the forum because that's the only way people will stop complaining and shitposting and selling accounts. Problem solved.

But its barely what? a month since the merit system has been introduced, so I guess we really need it more to time to see how it works around here. There are a lot who has taken this system to their advantage, and guess what? they have been busted by the mods and ordinary members like us who reported them.

Again, if it needed tweaks then we should wait a little further and gauge its effectiveness. Personally though, it really brings out the best of every poster although there still some shit posting and merit trading around, but I'm sure the full hands of the DT member and Global mods will bite them in the ass.

I do agree with this I am sorry if I was confusing - you may have misunderstood me.

My whole point was to actually make some tweaks, but not let people suffer in the meantime and others profit heavily.

By "scrap the entire thing" I mean literally ASAP - and come up with a new working model and try that. Once it is accepted or rejected by the community - scrap it and tweak again. I think a system like this is GREAT. It is useful AND 100% needed to prevent the forum going to complete shit - but this specific system needs a LOT of work.

It needs to be fixed immediately because the more time that goes by the more damage and issues occur and the more difficult it becomes to offset all that happened during this "TEST PHASE"/"BETA" whatever you would call this.

Hmm, but ford wouldn't have scrapped the whole automobile concept and try it all again just because wheels need tyres. Same concept for the aeroplane. You take the parts that aren't working and you make small adjustments to them until they do work. We currently have metal wheel with rubber tyres on cars. Imagine if the entire wheel was rubber or something equally silly. Making small adjustments without making wholesale changes allows the most precise identification of issues. Give it time.

Please just hear me out for a minute. I have been a member here since October 23rd of last year. When I started off in this forum it was unlike any other forum experience for me. I am in my mid 30s and have belonged to many communities and forums in the past, most of which I had an advantage from the start due to my extensive knowledge in those areas (gaming/ATS/digital point/etc..).

Some Important Points:

- Now here I was happy to be a newbie, asking questions, learning how crypto and the blockchain works, how to earn money from crypto and all that jazz. I asked many questions and was offered some great help. Even if I could have given merit at that point it would have been barely nothing because of the way the system is set up. The people that benefit the most from helpful posts and threads are those with the least amount of merit to give as a thank you - this in itself is totally assbackwards.

- So the people who can give out merit are the ones that don't really need it in the first place. The system makes Full Member and up basically GODS in the forum since they can boost your rank. Terrible, terrible setup.

- You do realize that people with many accounts (which tons of people do have since it only took age of account and some simple posts to get to FULL member before this system) are just swapping merit with each other and creating an even bigger gap between normal, hard working people, and those that are just profiting from a rigged system?

- I help many people on here now and so do many others, with every chance we get. Look at my post history - aside from my bounty recordings, I mainly post VERY helpful content. I even go out of my way to make helpful threads - either as guides for people - or as warnings of scams etc.

Now I am not crying about hardly EVER receiving any merit, I just want to vent and let the community know that the system is not working as intended. The rich are getting richer so to speak, swapping merit, selling it to people that can afford it, and boosting up each others alt accounts quite easily - and also many are at points just from the date they signed up that the merit doesn't even matter to them aside from being able to help out their friends and/or boost other accounts.

At this point just with activity I would be a MEMBER on my way to FULL. But, as it stands, I am getting screwed here as are many others.

I hope the mods and devs realize that this new system promotes shadiness in many forms:

- Force people to buy accounts and sell them (highly frowned upon in this community although legal to do)
- Only people that have a lot of money can do the above - separating even further the hardworking person from those with money
- Demoralizes people from posting quality content because now with this system they expect to be rewarded, see others rewarded for less, and become bitter
- People not only buying and selling accounts but straight up "merit" - have a look around on the web it is there plain to see (and this is not OK to do)
- Overload of "merit" posts forming spam in the meta section and others
- etc etc etc

So here is my suggestion:

Remove this terrible system and try again. Go look at some other large forums (ATS) and see how over the MANY years they have been around, they perfected the system you are trying to create. Maybe create a hybrid from what is tried and true with some new unique flavor and see how it works.

BUT - AND THIS IS HUGE - DO NOT SETTLE FOR SOMETHING WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY BROKEN AND NOT WORKING AS INTENDED!
I mean seriously...scrap it and retry until you get it right. You think that Ford would have continued with metal tires after he thought it was a great idea and then realized it was terrible? You think the Wright Brothers would have continued to use real bird feathers for their planes after one of them was paralyzed? I mean seriously. Accept the loss, re-create and move ahead. This is how great things happen. You try and you fix until you succeed!