Topic: Your pots of money and thinking long term / retirement / life after retirement (Read 299 times)

I agree with it, investing when the future time is really far away gives us lots of room to invest in many options because time is money, and the more we invest in time, the more is the return, but to think of a saving plan for 30-40 years in future looks so scary, it's like I'm planning for my deathbed if somehow I survive by then. But we should be optimistic actually, if we put enough effort into our health and lifestyle, we can actually get a long healthy life without much risks etc

Most traditional financial planning advice is pre internet era, dating back to the 1950s.

The modern climate shifted significantly. Job security declined. Taxes and inflation are much higher. The internet changed everything related to finding side hustles, investment and job opportunities. The best options many could hope for decades past was some type of stock market investment. That was the only action in town, so to speak. I think overwhelmingly a very high percentage of newly minted millionaires/billionaires are tech/internet related. That is where most of the money and opportunities are atm.

There are many stories about randoms who get bored and decide to learn to write a mobile app one day. Not long afterward they're doing very well financially. I seem to remember the creator of minecraft doing $300,000 in sales, per day, years back. Searching for side hustles through search engine or youtube. There are many angles and opportunities people don't mind sharing. The best method for someone physically attractive that has a life could be to run a social media account and gain as many followers as possible. Then sell merchandise, post affiliate links or do some type of promo.

Thanks OP for this post. I love how you wrote it. You know how to attract attention with your good writing. I traveled in time with your ideas. I work with the idea of ​​saving for a long time. Although at present I am experiencing unexpected situations that if I had not saved money, it would be difficult for me to solve it.
I work hard for the present and the future of my thirteen and twelve year old nephews and for my old age.
I have learned that enjoying life is not in the future only in the day to day. Thank God that he fills us with wisdom to understand things.
I also thank Satoshi for creating bitcoin because he gave us the economic freedom that we are enjoying. He gave us the freedom to choose, to speak up, and to be heard.

With the current price of bitcoin, making it your means of retirement is like looking for the Holy Grail, impossible. Do you know how much is needed for a stress free retirement? A lot because those are the times that you will be getting more medical bills. Why not stake with crypto, it is better than just hodling it which doesn't give you any dividend when it is stagnant, at the least it is invested into something and it will grow.

You guys do not need to make money from the staking or dividend paying crypto, sure making money on top of having it is great but you could just have crypto and that could go up in price, so you do not have to worry about that. Just buy bitcoin for example and you would be able to retire easily with all the extra money that it makes you could spend that when you retire.

I think about that a lot, that is my dream, I want to retire early, and to think that when I am 70 it will be 2060 and I can't think what bitcoin will be like by then, I am sure it will be millions of dollars per bitcoin for sure without a doubt, that is why I keep investing into crypto because I know that even if I do not get dividends or staking profits, the amount bitcoin goes up will be more than enough for me to retire when I need the money but can't work for it anymore.

I just need to read and examine your presentation, because obviously we are not as proficient in the field of statistical calculations as you can understand. maybe you are a person who chose to major in banking economics. we have to be observant, not in discussing how millennials and others are, but to be able to understand the essence of the index calculation that you are trying to simplify. but I too have studied, and have not yet graduated. maybe I will be interested in the basic basics of calculating using a 50:50 appeal scale, then combining it with the percentage of daily profit. We are not as detailed as you are in managing finances and even growth in order to prepare for the future.


long live sir @paxmao

I totally understand where you are coming from. It feels kind of wierd to save for 30 or 40 years in the future if we might not even be alive then. The world is such an uncertain place which makes investing for a long period of time very difficult. The big issue with long term investing is that we are able to take a lot of more risks with our investment decisions. If we only want to invest for the next 3-5 years we wouldn't really put all our money into stocks, but with a time horizon up to 40 years we can invest a lot of money into stocks. And over a long period of time, stocks tend to outperform all other asset classes.

This is a good analysis and I appreciate it. However, when it comes to savings, I'm kind of repulsed by the idea of it because of uncertainty. Everyone of us actually assumes that one day we will get old, we will have healthy bodies, the world will still be the same and we will need money for our needs, but as they say, "there are many slips between cup and lips", I guess if I earn decent, I would just spend most of it enjoying the moment now, and then also do some charities and then look after my relatives, and then if some amount is still left, that would be for my retirement because who knows, I can just die in a car accident tomorrow. While this idea is very repulsive and out of topic, it's just how I think because savings is a big trending topic nowadays which I don't quite understand. But it's important, no doubt on that

Exactly, no matter how much we love bitcoin and defend it, we can't ignore the fact that it is a volatile asset to be able to make it into an insurance for your retirement and future. If you are still legible, I heard that Roth IRA is a better option than a regular IRA and Index Funds is the best passive income stream in my opinion, with Warren Buffett supporting the idea that it is better than actively trading in which he did won the bet. You can make more money if you know where to make one, working until retirement is not the best thing but there will be opportunities that will come along the way like side hustle.

The dividend issue is also misleading. You can buy a low-cost S&P 500 fund that does not pay dividends and an ETF of the same that does. The difference between one and the other will be reflected in the final return. The dividends you don't get paid in one are reinvested and improve the return. The longer the term, the greater the difference in profitability.

So for these purposes it doesn't matter, you can take the fund without dividends from the S&P 500 and when you need it you can withdraw what you need, like the typical 4%.

The point is that dividends are part of the total return and if they are paid to you before you need them (for example in retirement) you will lose profitability in the long term (if you do not reinvest them).

That's extremely risky if you're talking about saving for your future.  Anything related to crypto is, but I wouldn't count on any sort of dividend-paying crypto or PoS coin or anything like that to be a reliable source of income.  You'd be much better off either buying an index fund or some stocks that pay high dividends (and keep them in an IRA or whatever's available in your country).

I wish I had pots of money, but I don't.  I've come to accept the fact that I'm going to be working until they put me in the ground--but that's OK.  Some people retire and have no idea what to do with their free time, and I'm afraid that's how I would end up.  Work is good for the soul I've found.

To save money is the first step, but saving without investing in a profitable way is worthless. I'm reaching to the conclusion fiat investments besides being unprofitable against inflation are more risky than bitcoin. Just an example: last year (2020) inflation in my country reached to almost 5%, while the considered safe investments (fixed income) stayed between 3%-4%. It makes no sense to invest this way as you are actually losing purchasing power, losing money.

If you want to have minimum profit percentage against inflation you need to move to variable income, which is more dangerous and if your economy breaks, you will probably lose money with this kind of investment. So risk for risk it seems bitcoin is the best option!

Do not put all your eggs in one basket into Crypto currencies, because it is a very high risk investment to gamble your retirement on something like this. Yes, some of the early investors made use profits with Bitcoin and some pump n dump coins.. but I will never put more than 15% of my life savings in Bitcoin or any other Alt coin.

Buy small amounts every week and when there are a large drop in the price... you buy a bit more.    It can give you a big profit over several years or it can go to zero. 

No offense for those who are geeks in academics but school always teaches us since day one on how to work on money, instead of how money should work for us, that's why most of the community are stuck in the routine of waking up early spending 8 hours on office a day and just have a minimum salary that'll wear your body out in the whole day.

People wants to work hard but never think of working smart as an alternative to hastened their dreams and goals to be achieved in no time, that's why they're are still working even though they are 60 years old already and above.

Well in my experience before when I am employed in a company,what I thought everyday is to support my parents and as I got married we used to think for our children needs,setting it as our first priority.Now that I got resigned from my job to take care of my kids I realized that salary was always been so low and not enough so I need to Help my husband doing online selling.Therefore I realized that the time when I'm single I must have been save something for my self so that I can start my own business and help my growing family as well.

There's a saying here in my country for the middle class people that it will only take just one sickness or medical emergency to render you bankrupt. This is because the medical expenses here are ridiculously expensive it will literally drown you in debt. Unlike in the US or other more developed countries, the government doesn't cover that much for your hospital expenses. People joke that the debt you incur is more deadly than your illness.

This is why I try to build up my emergency funds and get a health insurance. However even if I have those, one trip to the hospital could deplete all those. Sadly, I've only started becoming more serious on saving and investing just recently but I follow a simple formula. Savings - income = expenses. Instead of just saving what's left for my expenses, I do the opposite and spend only what's left after I take out the percent of what's supposed to be saved/invested and if I exceed that then I'm living beyond my means or in need of additional income.

You captured all with those. Being rich is not by hard works but by doing and talking the right kinds of risk. These days people realize that financial intelligence is a huge factor to be rich and not the amount of muscles or strength. Especially with the increase in financial activities on the internet.

Reading the op, he at a point listed cryptocurrency as an investment but he didn't emphasize much on it. IMO, savings and setting monies aside would not help but proper investment like properties and the new revelation of cryptocurrency.
Alright you can imagine a 60 years old in 2010 who bought and hodl just 20 units of bitcoin and now he should be swimming in riches at 70/71 years with the current price. What a way to old gracefully lol

We all have to set our goals and think long term even if the future is not so sure, its still better to be prepared. Stocks are good for long term player who wants to earn money passively and and prepare for their retirement though profit is still not guaranteed, depends on the market situation.

If you think stocks especially S&P 500 index will not be good for the next 10 years, then we’re lucky to have a better options to invest for, cryptocurrency gives that opportunity to retire rich and happy. Start preparing for this one now while you are enjoying your younger years.

It's quite interesting that you are giving financial literacy to readers, but in my opinion almost all people in this forum are traders, investors, or just information seekers related to crypto assets whose financial literacy is basically quite good. Thus, the financial literacy approach taught should be different. Young people who have savings in a commercial bank account are an example of a big loss at this time, because if the story goes into banking, it cannot be separated from inflation. No matter how big the value of your bank savings will be if it is transferred to investment assets such as stocks, crypto, gold and others.

Thank you.
That's a good start for awareness.
Most of the "millennials" now stay on their smartphones and just being lazy. It's a bad start if you get used to it.

Work hard, but it doesn't mean you will YOLO after that. I think I have saved enough money because of that.
I still enjoy life without buying unnecessary things or feeding myself with expensive foods just to feel the joy of my salary.
Now I have my own house, a wife, and 2 great kids. Living in a peaceful place.
Preserving that is my job now then, saving and investing for myself so that I won't be a burden when they grow up.

I use all of these things all together and I can't say that I am rich, I have been working for just 9 years so far which means maybe it will take some more time, but "unexpected" payments cause you to go back to zero when you are not too rich.

I never taken out a loan ever, and I never owned credit card neither, I always lived within my means and never had debt in my life, I always save 10% of my savings forever and never had a problem with that, and I reinvest that money into things to make more money. Why am I not rich? Because, I had to spend that money into things that wasn't expected, health related stuff, parent related stuff, life related stuff in general, not because I spent it on some funny stuff, I spent it on important stuff and that is why I think it is quite important to realize that you could do everything and still not be rich if you get unlucky.

Nice add. Are you aware of the 10 page disclaimer attached to that type of stuff? Are you aware that those yields only happen if the coin / network does actually have real use?

Let me put it another way: Would you be happy to die of hunger if those investments go to zero (which can easily be the case).



Yep, that is called working with incomplete information. In those cases you act on what you do know - e.g. the fact that you will need money later in life. The fact that there are unknowns is not a good reason not to act, but rather a reason to take action to mitigate risks.

As someone said, there are "two types of people, those who can work with incomplete information"


I could not agree more. You need to understand money, investment and the world economy in general terms. I bet most people on this forum are on the idea that investing is a rulette.

Please, notice that I have not said that you need to work hard or that you need to have income just from work or from a company. I am a firm advocate for laziness, but meaning using your brains to work less and get more results.

This advice is not valid in every country and situation that's true, but it is a good start.


This is not about being rich, is about planning. Actually, many people who worked for others do perfectly well and becomes what you could define as rich. See this case in which modest investors did become rich over time with Peter Lynch 20% yearly average return across several decades and this case. These two are very well known cases and not unique.

You can actually become "rich" or at least "rich enough" being a regular joe if you take the time to educate and understand your options.



There you go, someone got the main point!

Yes, we should think about retirement, but don't spend too much time planning it since it is not that useful. Imagine you are driving at night. You will find that you can only see up to 250 feet (according to google ). The same goes for long-term planning. You can see only a few years in the future.

What's more useful is the budget management:
(1) Don't use debts, except if you are 100% sure it's profitable in the end.
(2) Don't spend more than you earn.
(3) Reinvest your saving to generate more income.

Investing is the best way to not be a burden to other people in old age, investing with high risk is indeed very attractive to the returns you get, but it really depends on the nature of the individual, there is who prefers the type of investment with low risk and not high returns and vice versa.
What is difficult is the commitment to keep saving the return from investment and keep living simply when income rises and and stay focused on the goal of living well in old age.

With the current status of economy and the wages in most countries not going up for over a decade, I think that the only to have a secure future when it comes to finances is to have multiple streams of income, maybe start by putting some money into cryptocurrency or stock market, then do index funds, ETF and mutual funds, or better yet retirement accounts. Or do some side jobs besides your main job, we can't just whine that the government made us what we are right now, those are just words at the end of the day but the reality is that we have to do what others do to make more money.

Working ( In company) for me wont make you "Real" rich in your lifetime because it is the company that your making richer and you as employee will always remain as a peanut richer against them.

For me real Work means having your Own Business , creating another chance from your career , and not just giving your 8-10 hours a day following orders from your higher ups.

And besides it is only hard in the beginning but eventually you will get use to it and specially if you love what you are doing.
So Retiring will be more luxurious and worthy when you earn Enough Income to make it for your Last days in this world, living in grandest life you can ever had.

A very well worked and well structured post. In general, the advice you give is good, although I don't think it is the only valid advice to face old age.

For me there is one important thing too: do you have children/heirs to leave the estate to when you die? If you don't have them, you can spend some of the principal when you get old, especially if there are market downturns. If you want to leave an inheritance, it is better that the strategies are focused on protecting the principal and live only on income.

The point is that if you focus your youth/maturity on increasing your wealth, you will certainly be better off in your old age than if you don't do it.

Long thinking doesn't need of 30-40 years.If you are bbetween 20-30 is quite enough to think about it.Now we can predicted the age till we live or survived.Many people getting cancer in his younger age itself.Due to some unwanted food also.So it's essential to think about the future.If you inverse in bitcoin, it's enough for the future.

Your words are correct, but I am against the philosophy that says that you must work hard and save some money, and with the passage of several years, you will have enough money to become rich.

The best solution is to keep your expenses low and upgrade your financial intelligence, as it is the only one that gives you access to financial freedom and then you can use the money generated from this financial freedom to buy what you want to buy.

Remember: No one can be super rich and the truest definition of wealth is the amount of days you can hold out without work.

As for how to achieve this, it is mainly related to increasing your education, upgrading your intelligence, and spending more time learning rather than hard work.

I'm not that long term thinking and I can't plan 30-40 years ahead.I actually don't care...
There are way too many "what ifs".What if I lose my job/income source,so I can't save enough money?
What if the stock market crashes?What if the bank,in which I'm saving my money goes bankrupt?
What if cryptocurrencies got globally banned and the crypto prices went down up to 10 times?
Anyways,your plan is about earning USD and having a US salary.I live in a poor country and the salaries can't be compared to the average US salary.

Most people do not think about how long they need to work hard or retire or how they live after retirement. They still work hard, no matter how long they need because they work hard because of their family and their kids.

People are trying to prepare their future by saving some amount of money every month in the bank. We are so lucky because of knowing crypto, so we can saving money in investing in crypto, so hopefully, we will make a big profit in the future.

Retiring from what we did and enjoying our life will be another part of our lives that all people will get, so I hope we can all have a plan for our future.

For someone like me who doesn't have any idea about these S&P 500 index funds or the CAPE, I will likely just go stick with option (C) crypto products like the KCS token that will provide dividends or the Casino tokens that distribute coins as well. They are like providing dividends still, there are more projects like these.

Retiring in the US is pretty much different from other countries, the elderly will somehow just end up in retirement homes which is like a prison for the aged. Will like to buy a house with a little farm or near the shore and then get busy there, probably share it with the elderly if they are willing.

If you are not "rich", that is, you work hard for money a manage to save just some, perhaps nothing from month to month, you should be thinking about how to make sure you can live when old without being a burden for you family or having financial difficulties. If you holdled bitcoin since 10 years ago, you do not need to read any further, just enjoy. For the rest, here are some planning tips.

This is particularly important for Millenials (see graph below), as the rates of return for savings and investments are thought to be in decline.

However, you also want to life a good life - there is only one (unless you are Buddhist) - and you probably want to do things that require money. Striking a balance between these two is a little bit of an art.

How much do you need to saver? Too difficult to say in general. Some speakers and authors will tell you that it should be around 10% of your income, but if you earn little you may not be able to or if you want to retire very early you may need to do some extra effort.

 First thing to be clear, you can separate into bags or pots but in reality all your money is the same. Just use this as mind tool.

b) Decide what is the bare minimun you will need each month or year to retire having the basics: a roof over your head, food in the plate and medical care. This is your retirement minimum bag.

- Figure out how much capital (savings) you would need to obtain that monthly income. (e.g. you need 500 USD and you count on having your house paid). That x12 is what you need in a year (e.g. 12000).

- You should count on getting around 4% of your saving as dividend or rental income. To produce 6000 a year that is: 150.000 USD (that's 6000 / .04). That is your bare survival minimum, so you have to save and invest enough to make sure you have it by the time you think you will retire. Savings and investments for that pot have to be super low risk while allowing you to reach that figure. You may think that you will get a pension and that will take care, but I advise you not to count on that. Just make sure you do not depend on someone else for food.

b) Decide what would be a good level of income that would grant you some travelling, leisure or whatever you would like. Let's say that is 1000 a month on top of you bare minimum. That is you wish bag. You can count for this on pension or other income, just halve what you think would be reasonable (e.g. you expect a state or private pension of 1000 per month, count only with 500).

Now you have to figure out how much you would need for that. Again, at 4% would be (12 month x 1000 = 12.000 a year, so capital should be 12.000 / .04 = 300.000 USD. This may seem like quite a bit of money (it is very personal anyway, people have different incomes).

Since you know your goal, you would now setup your saving strategy, but this time you can take part in more risky (yet higher reward) investments. This should help you reach that apparently high figure if you start saving when young.

c) You moon-shot: If you still are able to save more after your two first bags, you can now have your moonshot bag. You can choose any ammount here, and you will invest this in high risk / high paying investments (e.g. crypto). If this goes well, you will retire early and or rich.

All this requires talking about different investment styles and methods. If there is some interest I will later continue the post with ideas on that.

Just as a hint for Millenials:

What to expect from the typical S&P 500 index fund. Current CAPE is high, meaning that standard returns will not be great during the next 10 years (probably)

20 year investments across different decades: