Topic: zcoin vs zcash (Read 5175 times)
This is the coolest and fullest information I have ever met about these altcoins. As I know my friends (almost all) are mining for Zcash exactly — it is cheap to do it (they live on the north), and the coin is always growing.
Think ZCoin will get in top10
Someone on here had listed what appeared to be some big advantages zcoin had over zcash. I can't seem to find them now.
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Why bother with either. Monero kicks both their assess.
It does neither. Not in privacy, not in fees. Monero is extremely inefficient at what it attempts.
Zcoin is the best because it has top level privacy but the supply is also auditable unlike with Zcash's trusted setup which IMO gives it very limited upside.
Did you mean zcoin was having better tech than zcash?
Zcoin and Zcash are objectively superior to cryptonote such as monero because of use of Zero Knowledge Proofs. Zcoin has the auditable supply which gives it the overall edge for me.
Yes I think zcoin has the potential to enter top 20 very soon.
It is in a very strong uptrend for the past few months. I'm definitely buying more at this level
Someone on here had listed what appeared to be some big advantages zcoin had over zcash. I can't seem to find them now.
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Why bother with either. Monero kicks both their assess.
It does neither. Not in privacy, not in fees. Monero is extremely inefficient at what it attempts.
Zcoin is the best because it has top level privacy but the supply is also auditable unlike with Zcash's trusted setup which IMO gives it very limited upside.
Did you mean zcoin was having better tech than zcash?
Zcoin and Zcash are objectively superior to cryptonote such as monero because of use of Zero Knowledge Proofs. Zcoin has the auditable supply which gives it the overall edge for me.
Someone on here had listed what appeared to be some big advantages zcoin had over zcash. I can't seem to find them now.
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Why bother with either. Monero kicks both their assess.
It does neither. Not in privacy, not in fees. Monero is extremely inefficient at what it attempts.
Zcoin is the best because it has top level privacy but the supply is also auditable unlike with Zcash's trusted setup which IMO gives it very limited upside.
Did you mean zcoin was having better tech than zcash?
May zcash have the same bug as Zcoin?
The unlimited supply bug? No, Zcoin doesn't have that problem.
Someone on here had listed what appeared to be some big advantages zcoin had over zcash. I can't seem to find them now.
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Why bother with either. Monero kicks both their assess.
It does neither. Not in privacy, not in fees. Monero is extremely inefficient at what it attempts.
Zcoin is the best because it has top level privacy but the supply is also auditable unlike with Zcash's trusted setup which IMO gives it very limited upside.
Someone on here had listed what appeared to be some big advantages zcoin had over zcash. I can't seem to find them now.
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Why bother with either. Monero kicks both their assess.
May zcash have the same bug as Zcoin?
The zcoin scammers should've fixed ZeroVert instead of disappearing and launching yet another coin.
edit read above post now"Hacker" (or inside job?) exploits a bug in zcoin to almost double the amount of coins in existence: https://zcoin.io/language/en/important-announcement-zerocoin-implementation-bug/
Time for yet another coin?
The zcoin scammers should've fixed ZeroVert instead of disappearing and launching yet another coin.
edit read above post now
They have an official explanation on this:
https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/FUD
https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/FUD
Quote
When Zerovert was launched in November 2014, it was primarily an experiment and we didn't have any investor backing. We still wanted to protect our work and thus our only choice at that time was to make Zerovert closed source so that it could not be copied. However we quickly realized that in the cryptocurrency world, closed source software made it almost impossible for our project to be vetted and hence taken seriously so we were in a quandary.
Zerovert was originally intended to be part of Vertcoin's ecosystem however Vertcoin's community were not keen on it. Zerovert's also suffered from very poor performance and had huge scalability issues and therefore the project went silent while we figured out how to solve many of the challenges we faced with Zerovert.
We subsequently managed to fix many scalability issues and these changes have been incorporated into Zcoin. Starting afresh with Zcoin allowed strong investor backing from the likes of Roger Ver and allowed us to dedicate ourselves fully to this project rather than a mere experiment. With investor backing we also could finally make our code open source while still protecting our efforts. These considerations were what prompted us to wipe the slate clean with Zcoin instead of continuing with Zerovert which was never intended to be a serious project.
Zerovert was originally intended to be part of Vertcoin's ecosystem however Vertcoin's community were not keen on it. Zerovert's also suffered from very poor performance and had huge scalability issues and therefore the project went silent while we figured out how to solve many of the challenges we faced with Zerovert.
We subsequently managed to fix many scalability issues and these changes have been incorporated into Zcoin. Starting afresh with Zcoin allowed strong investor backing from the likes of Roger Ver and allowed us to dedicate ourselves fully to this project rather than a mere experiment. With investor backing we also could finally make our code open source while still protecting our efforts. These considerations were what prompted us to wipe the slate clean with Zcoin instead of continuing with Zerovert which was never intended to be a serious project.
The zcoin scammers should've fixed ZeroVert instead of disappearing and launching yet another coin.
However Zerocoin's advantage over Zerocash are as follows:
a) While still retaining the basecoin and a lot of the Bitcoin core code, it is a lot easier to integrate to existing Bitcoin merchants/etc.
b) Although Zerocoin's proofs are larger and occupies more storage space, the computational requirements to generate a private transaction are many times faster. Zcash requires large amounts of RAM and minutes of computational time. Zerocoin requires seconds to use and is not memory intensive. Basically Zerocoin uses more storage space but is computationally much less intensive.
c) Parameter generation for both Zcoin and Zcash requires a trusted setup but Zcoin's parameters are arguably less controversial. (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)
d) Most importantly is that in Zcoin, total supply is still visible so if there's a flaw and someone is secretly creating coins for themselves, this can be much more easily detected. With Zcash, because everything is hidden, if a flaw is exploited, it may be almost impossible to detect!
e) Zerocoin's tech is more peer reviewed and better understood than Zcash's. Zcash's use of zero knowledge proofs uses ZK-Snarks which very few people understand. Even Zooko himself admits he doesn't understand it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6RLjcGVUnw&feature=youtu.be&t=17m30s). Note that Zerocoin's paper was only like 15 pages. Zcash's paper is more than 50 pages so Zcash's is considerably more complex which means more things that can go wrong. This is why Zcash had to spend so much money on multiple security companies auditing on its critical components and bugs (including some serious ones have been found). A security audit is also not fool proof as the DAO exposed and which is why Zcash also uses multiple companies to audit.
a) While still retaining the basecoin and a lot of the Bitcoin core code, it is a lot easier to integrate to existing Bitcoin merchants/etc.
b) Although Zerocoin's proofs are larger and occupies more storage space, the computational requirements to generate a private transaction are many times faster. Zcash requires large amounts of RAM and minutes of computational time. Zerocoin requires seconds to use and is not memory intensive. Basically Zerocoin uses more storage space but is computationally much less intensive.
c) Parameter generation for both Zcoin and Zcash requires a trusted setup but Zcoin's parameters are arguably less controversial. (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)
d) Most importantly is that in Zcoin, total supply is still visible so if there's a flaw and someone is secretly creating coins for themselves, this can be much more easily detected. With Zcash, because everything is hidden, if a flaw is exploited, it may be almost impossible to detect!
e) Zerocoin's tech is more peer reviewed and better understood than Zcash's. Zcash's use of zero knowledge proofs uses ZK-Snarks which very few people understand. Even Zooko himself admits he doesn't understand it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6RLjcGVUnw&feature=youtu.be&t=17m30s). Note that Zerocoin's paper was only like 15 pages. Zcash's paper is more than 50 pages so Zcash's is considerably more complex which means more things that can go wrong. This is why Zcash had to spend so much money on multiple security companies auditing on its critical components and bugs (including some serious ones have been found). A security audit is also not fool proof as the DAO exposed and which is why Zcash also uses multiple companies to audit.
This, i think it's the most deadly point of zcash! Personally i find Zcoin is overall better, just that the marketing and communication is so poor so not many people know about it yet
The alternative would be a 'premine'. I think this at least allows the devs to have some skin in the game and you know where their funding is coming from.
I wrote this somewhere:
Zcoin uses Zerocoin technology from the Zerocoin paper. http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf
This is a very well peer reviewed paper.
Zcash uses Zerocash. http://zerocash-project.org/media/pdf/zerocash-extended-20140518.pdf
Although Zerocash is a development from Zerocoin meant to address certain perceived shortcomings of Zerocoin, they are not simple forks of each other and rely on different protocols.
Zerocash was meant to improve on Zerocoin on these issues:
a) Zerocoin still requires a basecoin to convert back before being allowed to spend. Zerocash has no more basecoin
b) Zerocash's proofs are much more efficient and smaller than Zerocoin's
c) Zerocoin uses fixed denominations to mint (1, 25, 50, 100) while Zerocash is not subject to such limitations
d) Greater privacy with Zerocash since sender/receiver/amount are all obscured.
However Zerocoin's advantage over Zerocash are as follows:
a) While still retaining the basecoin and a lot of the Bitcoin core code, it is a lot easier to integrate to existing Bitcoin merchants/etc.
b) Although Zerocoin's proofs are larger and occupies more storage space, the computational requirements to generate a private transaction are many times faster. Zcash requires large amounts of RAM and minutes of computational time. Zerocoin requires seconds to use and is not memory intensive. Basically Zerocoin uses more storage space but is computationally much less intensive.
c) Parameter generation for both Zcoin and Zcash requires a trusted setup but Zcoin's parameters are arguably less controversial. (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)
d) Most importantly is that in Zcoin, total supply is still visible so if there's a flaw and someone is secretly creating coins for themselves, this can be much more easily detected. With Zcash, because everything is hidden, if a flaw is exploited, it may be almost impossible to detect!
e) Zerocoin's tech is more peer reviewed and better understood than Zcash's. Zcash's use of zero knowledge proofs uses ZK-Snarks which very few people understand. Even Zooko himself admits he doesn't understand it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6RLjcGVUnw&feature=youtu.be&t=17m30s). Note that Zerocoin's paper was only like 15 pages. Zcash's paper is more than 50 pages so Zcash's is considerably more complex which means more things that can go wrong. This is why Zcash had to spend so much money on multiple security companies auditing on its critical components and bugs (including some serious ones have been found). A security audit is also not fool proof as the DAO exposed and which is why Zcash also uses multiple companies to audit.
Zcash is pretty neat technology and I think is a very amazing innovation but I do think that Zerocoin has a role to play. Its anonymity is still amazingly good with a much larger traceability set than previous anonymity implementations (basically all the previous Zcoins minted), it can be much more readily used today with existing vendors/merchants and can be used in a wide variety of devices today.
I wrote this somewhere:
Zcoin uses Zerocoin technology from the Zerocoin paper. http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf
This is a very well peer reviewed paper.
Zcash uses Zerocash. http://zerocash-project.org/media/pdf/zerocash-extended-20140518.pdf
Although Zerocash is a development from Zerocoin meant to address certain perceived shortcomings of Zerocoin, they are not simple forks of each other and rely on different protocols.
Zerocash was meant to improve on Zerocoin on these issues:
a) Zerocoin still requires a basecoin to convert back before being allowed to spend. Zerocash has no more basecoin
b) Zerocash's proofs are much more efficient and smaller than Zerocoin's
c) Zerocoin uses fixed denominations to mint (1, 25, 50, 100) while Zerocash is not subject to such limitations
d) Greater privacy with Zerocash since sender/receiver/amount are all obscured.
However Zerocoin's advantage over Zerocash are as follows:
a) While still retaining the basecoin and a lot of the Bitcoin core code, it is a lot easier to integrate to existing Bitcoin merchants/etc.
b) Although Zerocoin's proofs are larger and occupies more storage space, the computational requirements to generate a private transaction are many times faster. Zcash requires large amounts of RAM and minutes of computational time. Zerocoin requires seconds to use and is not memory intensive. Basically Zerocoin uses more storage space but is computationally much less intensive.
c) Parameter generation for both Zcoin and Zcash requires a trusted setup but Zcoin's parameters are arguably less controversial. (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)
d) Most importantly is that in Zcoin, total supply is still visible so if there's a flaw and someone is secretly creating coins for themselves, this can be much more easily detected. With Zcash, because everything is hidden, if a flaw is exploited, it may be almost impossible to detect!
e) Zerocoin's tech is more peer reviewed and better understood than Zcash's. Zcash's use of zero knowledge proofs uses ZK-Snarks which very few people understand. Even Zooko himself admits he doesn't understand it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6RLjcGVUnw&feature=youtu.be&t=17m30s). Note that Zerocoin's paper was only like 15 pages. Zcash's paper is more than 50 pages so Zcash's is considerably more complex which means more things that can go wrong. This is why Zcash had to spend so much money on multiple security companies auditing on its critical components and bugs (including some serious ones have been found). A security audit is also not fool proof as the DAO exposed and which is why Zcash also uses multiple companies to audit.
Zcash is pretty neat technology and I think is a very amazing innovation but I do think that Zerocoin has a role to play. Its anonymity is still amazingly good with a much larger traceability set than previous anonymity implementations (basically all the previous Zcoins minted), it can be much more readily used today with existing vendors/merchants and can be used in a wide variety of devices today.
Is this what you're looking for? http://blog.zcoin.tech/zcoin-and-zcash/
About the developer rewards, if you think the current rewards are unfair then what amount/method of rewards do you think that would be fair? Don't you expect the devs to do their work for free?
About the developer rewards, if you think the current rewards are unfair then what amount/method of rewards do you think that would be fair? Don't you expect the devs to do their work for free?
Someone on here had listed what appeared to be some big advantages zcoin had over zcash. I can't seem to find them now.
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
Are there some worthy advantages?
Also are these bound to get forked and the 20% tax removed pretty soon? Not that I'm sure removing development tax altogether is a good thing but is there anything stopping this and why not more zcoin clones already?
edit - found the thread now...
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