Sorry you have to be so pedantic...
Which PROJECT currently supports transactions in any way, shape, or form that will facilitate zero-trust exchange between two users on two different blockchains?
Wait, it doesn't matter. If we don't need any other blockchains, we don't need P2P exchanges. Save yourself some time and ignore anything else on the subject.
Topic: Zero-Trust P2P Exchange - Need help with POC (Read 1726 times)
Forgive me, I must have missed that. Which blockchain does this? I can't even seem to find a client that can handle multiple blockchains, let alone one that can facilitate P2P currency exchange. Also, if this already exists, I wonder why it isn't being implemented in every new coin coming out instead of people crying to have their coins added to the 3rd party exchanges.
What you've missed is that this isn't something a blockchain does. This is something that can be done with a blockchain, including all the major blockchains in use now. It would be insane to create a currency to solve this when it would you could simply implement it in client software for existing currencies; there is no need to make that problem this hard.
Forgive me, I must have missed that. Which blockchain does this? I can't even seem to find a client that can handle multiple blockchains, let alone one that can facilitate P2P currency exchange. Also, if this already exists, I wonder why it isn't being implemented in every new coin coming out instead of people crying to have their coins added to the 3rd party exchanges.
Anyways, the process described in the wiki, is way too complex for such a simple problem. It does talk about a specialized alt chain though, which is what I based my thoughts on (in addition to what I've been able to find in previous discussions regarding P2P exchanges).
Now, my first post was strictly in line with this. However, if 2 chains are aware of each other, you open up even more potential, you would be able to issue market, limit, stop, and other orders. You could issue a limit sell order for 100000ALT@xxxBTC. Anyone seeing this order would be able to send an arbitrary amount of BTC to buy an appropriate amount of ALT. You could liquidate an unlimited amount of coin in a single transaction, even if there are hundreds or even thousands of transactions on the other chain. Try that with the first process described on the wiki, which would have you create 4 complex transactions per deal, requiring individual interaction with each and every buyer.
Anyways, the idea is to do the implementation in an alternate blockchain to limit harm to existing blockchains. This is why alternates were encouraged to begin with. To explore new ideas and techniques for solving various problems.
I know most folks frown on the creation of yet another coin. I agree... I've been looking at the various alts out there, and have yet to see one that offers anything truly unique in the way crypto currencies are handled. Sure, some are 'very rare' while others are 'very common.' Some are premined, some are not. Almost none of them offer anything really new, other than a name. What really amazes me, is why nobody's created a generic coin that would allow the user to set the paramaters at runtime: algorithim, block rate, reward, halving, total blocks, etc... All the existing coins are SO much the same that this could easily be done. Hats off to the guy(s) at coingen, they figured out that the money isn't in mining, it's in selling stuff to the miners.
For me, I just want to work on something that brings something new to the table other than a new set of variables. It's obvious that the well established coins (ie. Bitcoin) are too conservative to try new things, and I think that trading in the blockchain is way too much change for Bitcoin to absorb until it's well proven.
Anyways, the process described in the wiki, is way too complex for such a simple problem. It does talk about a specialized alt chain though, which is what I based my thoughts on (in addition to what I've been able to find in previous discussions regarding P2P exchanges).
Quote
Another proposal of cross-chain p2ptrade is to use specialized altchain with properties for efficient operation of p2ptrade from bitcoin chain. Additionaly, we use only single standard bitcoin transaction which looks exactly the same as normal payment (no nlocktime, no multisig, no special script).
Now, my first post was strictly in line with this. However, if 2 chains are aware of each other, you open up even more potential, you would be able to issue market, limit, stop, and other orders. You could issue a limit sell order for 100000ALT@xxxBTC. Anyone seeing this order would be able to send an arbitrary amount of BTC to buy an appropriate amount of ALT. You could liquidate an unlimited amount of coin in a single transaction, even if there are hundreds or even thousands of transactions on the other chain. Try that with the first process described on the wiki, which would have you create 4 complex transactions per deal, requiring individual interaction with each and every buyer.
Anyways, the idea is to do the implementation in an alternate blockchain to limit harm to existing blockchains. This is why alternates were encouraged to begin with. To explore new ideas and techniques for solving various problems.
I know most folks frown on the creation of yet another coin. I agree... I've been looking at the various alts out there, and have yet to see one that offers anything truly unique in the way crypto currencies are handled. Sure, some are 'very rare' while others are 'very common.' Some are premined, some are not. Almost none of them offer anything really new, other than a name. What really amazes me, is why nobody's created a generic coin that would allow the user to set the paramaters at runtime: algorithim, block rate, reward, halving, total blocks, etc... All the existing coins are SO much the same that this could easily be done. Hats off to the guy(s) at coingen, they figured out that the money isn't in mining, it's in selling stuff to the miners.
For me, I just want to work on something that brings something new to the table other than a new set of variables. It's obvious that the well established coins (ie. Bitcoin) are too conservative to try new things, and I think that trading in the blockchain is way too much change for Bitcoin to absorb until it's well proven.
You can do that with the existing blockchains (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading); there's no need to start a new currency to solve this problem.
I'd like to hook up with some developers that have a very deep understanding of how bitcoin works under the hood to help develop a proof of concept.
Here's my proposal:
I'd like to build a client with full support for multiple blockchains. Perhaps by building plugins based on the libbitcoin project. Initially, the client should support at least 2 existing blockchains (eg. Bitcoin and Litecoin). Additional chains could be added by simply building a new plugin.
Once complete, a client that is directly aware of both chains could, in theory, facilitate direct trading between those two chains. However, the protocol changes required in each network would be completely disruptive.
Instead of a disruptive change, I would instead propose the creation of a new blockchain and protocol. The new chain would have a new feature that would allow it to use a foreign transaction (eg. a Bitcoin Tx) as proof for completing it's own transactions.
Such a dependency would allow for a zero-trust exchange of coin. I would be able to send you so many ALT in exchange for so many BTC. My coin is locked away (into the chain) for a period of time or until you send me the BTC. After which, the ALT transaction is either completed or reversed.
If the proof of concept results in a viable system, it could be added to other coins at the discretion of the developers and/or community. Awareness in both directions would be desirable, but certainly would not be a requirement.
I'm not really interested in the usual specifics of the chain yet. Things like block time, rewards, total coins and such just don't matter much.
Algorithm: Doesn't matter. SHA256 and Scrypt are attractive because ASIC exists. A new algorithm could be chosen for the simple opportunity to spawn yet another ASIC race.
Block Time: Fast enough to keep up, but slow enough to keep orphans to a minimum.
Block Rewards: Enough to make it profitable, but not so much as to dilute potential value.
Total Coins: Enough to be useful, but not so much as to let them turn to dust.
Premine: None or maybe some to fund a foundation/development team.
Other Features: Not sure, but if we're going deep, it might make sense to work with some other experimental features that could only be implemented with a hard fork. I'm hoping that a highly experimental coin would be enough to attract a variety of developers who would like an opportunity to test their ideas and collaborate with others.
So no.. not just another clone/fork/junk/scam coin. I see real potential for expansion of crypto-currency here. Unfortunately, I only know enough about coding to get myself in trouble, so I need some pretty serious help.
Here's my proposal:
I'd like to build a client with full support for multiple blockchains. Perhaps by building plugins based on the libbitcoin project. Initially, the client should support at least 2 existing blockchains (eg. Bitcoin and Litecoin). Additional chains could be added by simply building a new plugin.
Once complete, a client that is directly aware of both chains could, in theory, facilitate direct trading between those two chains. However, the protocol changes required in each network would be completely disruptive.
Instead of a disruptive change, I would instead propose the creation of a new blockchain and protocol. The new chain would have a new feature that would allow it to use a foreign transaction (eg. a Bitcoin Tx) as proof for completing it's own transactions.
Such a dependency would allow for a zero-trust exchange of coin. I would be able to send you so many ALT in exchange for so many BTC. My coin is locked away (into the chain) for a period of time or until you send me the BTC. After which, the ALT transaction is either completed or reversed.
If the proof of concept results in a viable system, it could be added to other coins at the discretion of the developers and/or community. Awareness in both directions would be desirable, but certainly would not be a requirement.
I'm not really interested in the usual specifics of the chain yet. Things like block time, rewards, total coins and such just don't matter much.
Algorithm: Doesn't matter. SHA256 and Scrypt are attractive because ASIC exists. A new algorithm could be chosen for the simple opportunity to spawn yet another ASIC race.
Block Time: Fast enough to keep up, but slow enough to keep orphans to a minimum.
Block Rewards: Enough to make it profitable, but not so much as to dilute potential value.
Total Coins: Enough to be useful, but not so much as to let them turn to dust.
Premine: None or maybe some to fund a foundation/development team.
Other Features: Not sure, but if we're going deep, it might make sense to work with some other experimental features that could only be implemented with a hard fork. I'm hoping that a highly experimental coin would be enough to attract a variety of developers who would like an opportunity to test their ideas and collaborate with others.
So no.. not just another clone/fork/junk/scam coin. I see real potential for expansion of crypto-currency here. Unfortunately, I only know enough about coding to get myself in trouble, so I need some pretty serious help.
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