Topic: Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean - page 6. (Read 2789 times)

https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1741967158282686683

And now Ocean is helping the spam by mining empty blocks, this is just gold! But..
Neah, it's not censorship, it's too much luck  
The block Was mined at 00:32 and the previous at 00:31 probably again the same thing, found the block the second they started, didn't wait for the the tx template and broadcasted the empty block to make sure they get at least the block reward. Others do it too but for Ocean with their 1/1000 chance of finding a block this really blows.

Alani123, how are those profits coming?


LE, yeah, as I thought, Luke is against going nuts on x!
He says his empty block is actually a good thing since it adds security to the blockchain! LMAO!

How is it possible to have ZERO "legit" transactions in that block?

The mempool is far from empty... do they censor literally EVERY transaction and just get the coinbase transaction (6.25 BTC)?

Certainly seems that way.

So they've now decided to mine empty blocks if there is not enough 'legit' tx's available?
Idiots...  

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000358db21e5c9343f96c0733e2343d0c8c7137fd80dd47c?showDetails=true&view=actual#details

0% is just some marketing stuff, it won't last forever, many pools did it when they first started, and it's only a matter of time before they change that unless they treat the pool as a charity then that would be a different story, in their last block they traded a 7.556BTC block for a 7.412 BTC block that's 1.9% which is higher than many PPLNS pools (not sure why you compare a PPLNS to a PPS pool in the first place).

 

They also do not mine Whirlpool coinjoin transactions and BIP47 notification transactions and who knows what else that we have not seen yet that they will not mine.

With the last few blocks as of this post being heavy on inscriptions with higher fees it would be worse if they found a block as @mikeywith pointed out.
A lot of high fee TXs that they don't approve of without a decent number of those that they do and it's going to hurt.
If it's like the block they found and are only giving up BTC.14 give or take then the 0 fee does make up for it.

-Dave

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.

Also something most people don't realize is that OCEAN doesn't exactly ban inscriptions. In their latest block there was a single inscription that was included. It was included because there are certain requirements in the filters. Maximum data included must be under 42 bytes and the fee paid must be higher so as not to take advantage of the bug that gives full witness discounts to excessive data.

Not to mention that most pools that include Ordinals without limitationsn also accept our of band payments, which takes up space in the block for “accelerated” transactions without having any transparency on if these funds will be distributed to miners.

So yeah, smaller miners are also naturally migrating to OCEAN. The dashboard shows the total amount of workers and individual miner addresses. And it's also growing slowly but surely.
Well a lot of the hash power is owned by corporations with their own pool these days so we can't realistically expect these to switch but still, the growth is there.

Nope a single miner that is probably ocean themselves keeps adding hashrate:
https://ocean.xyz/stats/3MkwkMZHBkpz8czCipgf4SwsNwpgbV38Qz

No miner who is in it to make as much BTC as possible would be mining here.
Giving up $6000 per block or more is just nonsensical just because you don't want to include certain transactions.

-Dave

OCEAN has been steadily increasing its hashrate.


Now that a new block was mined more people might want to jump on the pool with their hashrate that they had sitting on other pools.
OCEAN's TIDES system is quite rewarding compared to FPPS/PPS and PPLNS pools, especially now. If s block is mined with exceeding luck miners on Ocean Pool get paid their full rewards, including luck, immediately.

That is true, but hard in practice, if the U.S wants certain addresses to be banned, they have no say on a miner node that sits in China, that node will still include the transaction and broadcast it to U.S nodes.

There is no way that all governments and all countries will impose the same rules, it will always be one country and its pawns, so IMO if x country wants to go full retard, they would force the ban on all nodes running in their country.

There's no need to impose anything on full nodes , as long as these transactions aren't included into a block . In the future an alert system similar to what satoshi had implemented will work for mining nodes . All other nodes play no part in consensus , so there's no reason to try to regulate them . It would be a total waste of energy to try to hunt down every non mining node on the planet . 

Here is an example of a transaction that was sitting in the mempool for long enough but was not picked by Ocean, it was paying 321 sat/Vbyte, here is a transaction they did include to replace some of those taproot transactions paying 83 sat/Vbyte


mempool rates this block at 85%, which is a very terrible rate, the calculation is rather simple


Of course, it's not, which is why I made the compassion with full nodes, every time a node receives a transaction it becomes fully aware of what the transaction has in it, the same concept would apply to a pool.

If the pool creates the blocktemplete they would include
Transaction A > legal
Transaction B > legal
Transaction C > Illegal

This means the pool has purposely included the transaction.

If the pool does nothing but broadcast a block found by miners, and the block is

Transaction A > legal
Transaction B > legal
Transaction C > Illegal

The pool can't just remove transaction C as that will invalidate the block, and given that the pool has no control over what the miner includes, legally speaking, it would be at least a bit more complicated to regulate this scenario compared to the first one. 

I understand it's possible for regulators to state that "As a pool you must not broadcast a block that includes a sanctioned transactions", but I assume it's easier to state "As a pool you must not include any sanction transaction in the blocktemplets you send to miners".

I also understand it's perfectly possible for regulators to impose these laws on every node, not only miners' node, something like "Anyone running a BTC node must blacklist the following addresses".

I could be wrong, but i would assume something like that would be a lot more difficult.

Mined their 3rd block after 24 days.
From what others are saying it is BTC 0.15 to 0.16 less than a block mined with a block template with everything in it that could be in it.
Standard block? Normal block? Don't know what term to use.

Guess that's $6000 that people that mine there don't need.
If you don't need $6000 I can send you a BTC address to send funds too.

-Dave

Cheers. I had already applied to Foundry while mining on Ocean, so I switched to them mid month. Getting paid every 24 hours is the definitely way to go for me.

"Bitcoiners" who succumb to state demands, may as well migrate to CBDC and do us a favor by selling their BTC for cheap...

I think that both miners and pools will face legal problems in case of sanctioned funds move . Not to mention core devs . But what do i know .
It's time to understand that this space isn't a place where you only have rights , but also obligations . And by coding or hashing or creating templates you're not not outside the law . The "it's decentralised so we can do anything we want" mentality starts to fall apart .

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29137

'With this Issue being posted to the official repository for Bitcoin and with this Issue being closed/dismissed by an official representative of Bitcoin Core, sanctions violations on Bitcoin have now moved from "negligent" to "culpable mental state greater than negligence." Thank you for your service.'

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.6.htm

Sec. 6.03.  DEFINITIONS OF CULPABLE MENTAL STATES.  (a)  A person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.

(b)  A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to circumstances surrounding his conduct when he is aware of the nature of his conduct or that the circumstances exist.  A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to a result of his conduct when he is aware that his conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result.

(c)  A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur.  The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

(d)  A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur.  The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.



 

Alas you are missing a rather important point.
The pool would be allowing the transaction - they specifically receive it from the miner.
You cant distribute a block if you don't know the full details of all the transactions in it. Just the block header isn't enough.

That would be somewhat similar to regulating P2P nodes, is it not? If your node receives and relay a banned transaction, they take you to jail?

When the pool no longer operates in a centralized manner they become just a pooling service, just like a bus driver, if someone carries something illegal with them on the bus -- the bus driver can't be held responsible in the same manner as if they found those illegal stuff in his pocket.

So I run a pool service which I have no control over, how can I be responsible for what happens inside? Similar to the bus driver analogy, the worst would be shutting down the bus service or the pool.

But when you are the owner, and the operator of the pool, you are at a greater risk, because now, not only that you facilitate illegal transaction a byproduct, you intentionally do so.

It is a lot easier to regulate a pool that create their own blocks vs pools who work as a medium between miners, it's also easier to regulate centralized exchanges and force them to ban or even seize funds of certain addresses, but it is nowhere near easy to regulate bitcoin nodes.

Obviously, it's not impossible, it just a lot harder.