Mixers to be banned | Bitcointalksearch.org

Sandra_hakeem

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on April 23, 2024, 07:54:13 PM

It looks like some scammers are now trying to take advantage of the gap left due to the mixer ban.
What should be done to users who register in the forum to post phishing/fake mixers?
Are they going to be banned or this is a situation where they just get tagged since it's not a real Bitcoin mixer but just a phishing site?

I wasn't expecting anything less - afterall, when Chipmixers left the forum, every other mixer took the chance to wiggle their butts - they all traded through the gap and unfortunately, that was a huge lose and mockery on CM's despair. The years of competition and monopoly ended, not until the government decided to pass in thorough scrutiny on every single one of 'em.

Quote from: Poker Player on May 01, 2024, 09:43:34 AM

As events have unfolded in 2024 I think we can say that his cautious decision was a good one.

In due time, we'll be toast if Theymos didn't take that drastic decision!
I've never been against it right from the very first day;I always knew the govern's wanna have control - regardless how they'd go about it...and Yes, these has certainly ruined/slized in halve so many people's little earnings, and more have lost pretty much bigger, but I guess we haven't lost everything just yet ^{[maybe until they decide how seclusive their censorships would be]} Or maybe we all wake up to our forum's domain not responding anymore!

Edit:

Quote from: mindrust on April 30, 2024, 11:53:28 AM

Say for example, I said I would sell you this imaginary home for $10k if you paid me the money upfront and then I disappeared with the money, what would the judge say? "Don't be stupid?"

I don't think their criterion for an investigation vindicates cases like this regarding the context; I mean it does connotes one of the federal laws regarding crimes. They could decide to take up the case but, Dude shouldn't be daft to send out his funds for some imaginary Ireland at first!

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 01, 2024, 06:39:17 AM

...many have the view theymos banned mixers to protect himself and the forum name from possible future scrutiny by various legal authorities.

I am not going to comment on the other question but about this I think it is no secret, and I would say more, not only the forum and himself, but also the participants in mixer campaigns.

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 10:01:03 AM

It wouldn't be illegal to continue allowing mixers here. That's why we're able to offer a 1-month grace period. But allowing them has become too risky/problematic, and it's only going to get worse. Imagine 5% of all active forum users being sanctioned due to being paid directly by mixers, or all participants in a big signature campaign being targets of a search warrant, or our service providers suddenly banning us due to being "associated" with mixers, etc.

As events have unfolded in 2024 I think we can say that his cautious decision was a good one.

JollyGood

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I know this is somewhat off-topic because it seems you were referring to the forum software not being upgraded but can you elaborate if it was a reply in response to someone stating theymos did not want to get himself in trouble?

Many of us are completely clueless about why the forum has ever been upgraded or the why the new one was never launched but when it comes to the mixer ban, many have the view theymos banned mixers to protect himself and the forum name from possible future scrutiny by various legal authorities.

Quote from: philipma1957 on April 27, 2024, 12:13:35 PM

I am sorry but that is what they want you to think. Along with they make knuckle and finger errors when they do an image.

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Quote from: examplens on April 30, 2024, 08:11:44 PM

There are still Chipmixer phishing sites, if we look at all such fake mixer sites, there are quite a number of them. It is also obvious that they are not the subject of any investigation, many of them stop working on their own and not because of a sanction.
I was making a big list of scam sites I have not seen many cases where any investigation was done or where any of the domains were seized.
Things through which ordinary people are deceived are not a priority subject of investigation like those where the state sees a possible evasion of income. It is more than obvious.

Congratulations on this project, it's good to make this signage.

It's true that it may seem like these sites are never investigated or that nothing ever happens. But there are several factors to take into consideration.

For example, in the list you published today, there are already sites that are not live. Normally these sites only last a short time, until they make the first victim or victims. In turn, the creators of these sites are usually involved in other criminal activities, and many may even be caught, but there is no formal news on the subject. So, as there is no news about all the murderers who are caught. And these sites are not notified, because in most cases, they no longer exist when the criminal is caught.

examplens

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Quote from: joker_josue on April 30, 2024, 04:01:49 PM

C h i p M i x e r has been around for many years, do you think they looked at it a few weeks before closing? No. That was work that probably took years.

There are still Chipmixer phishing sites, if we look at all such fake mixer sites, there are quite a number of them. It is also obvious that they are not the subject of any investigation, many of them stop working on their own and not because of a sanction.
I was making a big list of scam sites I have not seen many cases where any investigation was done or where any of the domains were seized.
Things through which ordinary people are deceived are not a priority subject of investigation like those where the state sees a possible evasion of income. It is more than obvious.

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Quote from: examplens on April 30, 2024, 11:29:45 AM

It is interesting, for example, that phishing sites like fake mixers are not subject to similar sanctions or investigations. We have even seen them being advertised on G00gle and similar networks and nobody seems to have a problem with that, while services that do not have scam intentions are strictly punishable because they can be used for purposes that do not suit the US government.
It's a bit bizarre that someone behind the name of justice deals with it

In reality these things are also illegal and punishable by law. However, there are some aspects to take into account. The first is that a phishing site typically operates for a few months, then the owner uses several fake names and each new site they use, as well as the servers are typically hosted in countries that do not have major agreements with the US. This makes it longer for the criminal to be caught. It doesn't mean you won't get caught, it takes a lot longer.

Normally when we read about a site like this closing, it means that there were many months or years of work until they were able to gather the necessary information to reach the owner of the site.

C h i p M i x e r has been around for many years, do you think they looked at it a few weeks before closing? No. That was work that probably took years.

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Quote from: examplens on April 30, 2024, 11:29:45 AM

Quote from: mindrust on April 30, 2024, 05:41:07 AM

Scamming is a petty crime. You can only lose money by getting scammed. Hosting mixers(not directly but it is connected to money laundering), cp, selling drugs are some of the federal crimes.

See the full list:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/federal-crimes

It is interesting, for example, that phishing sites like fake mixers are not subject to similar sanctions or investigations. We have even seen them being advertised on G00gle and similar networks and nobody seems to have a problem with that, while services that do not have scam intentions are strictly punishable because they can be used for purposes that do not suit the US government.
It's a bit bizarre that someone behind the name of justice deals with it

Yep. BTT pretty much operates just like the USA does. You can scam people and mostly get away with it if you are smart about it and as long as you don't step on the Gov's or banks' foot. Phising is like that too. The gov don't care if you are careless or stupid enough to fall for these tricks.

Say for example, I said I would sell you this imaginary home for $10k if you paid me the money upfront and then I disappeared with the money, what would the judge say? "Don't be stupid?"

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Quote from: mindrust on April 30, 2024, 05:41:07 AM

Scamming is a petty crime. You can only lose money by getting scammed. Hosting mixers(not directly but it is connected to money laundering), cp, selling drugs are some of the federal crimes.

See the full list:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/federal-crimes

It is interesting, for example, that phishing sites like fake mixers are not subject to similar sanctions or investigations. We have even seen them being advertised on G00gle and similar networks and nobody seems to have a problem with that, while services that do not have scam intentions are strictly punishable because they can be used for purposes that do not suit the US government.
It's a bit bizarre that someone behind the name of justice deals with it

mindrust

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Scamming is a petty crime. You can only lose money by getting scammed. Hosting mixers(not directly but it is connected to money laundering), cp, selling drugs are some of the federal crimes.

See the full list:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/federal-crimes

None of these offenses in the list are allowed on btt. These are the stuff the gov hates the most. Theymos can’t give a rat’s ass if you have lost $100k to a scammer. If you sell firearms in the marketplace, that’s when it becomes serious.

I just remembered, Ver was selling firearms (he says they were firecrackers) on ebay :d

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Do you remember the old saying that was always presented when victims asked why scams were not banned from the forum? How many times did we read (and probably repeat ourselves) the same words: scams in the forum are not moderated

Looking at the subject of scams vs mixers and how they are portrayed in the forum, how do the two equate and what sort of message is being sent out? If mixers are banned then maybe scams should also be actively removed from the forum too.

Quote from: logfiles on April 27, 2024, 11:51:08 AM

Kind of weird how mixers are banned, but scam is allowed here Tongue

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Synchronice on April 26, 2024, 07:08:08 AM

Quote from: cryptosize on April 17, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

What if an AI entity decides to start mining BTC? What is the IRS gonna do? Huh

C'mon, AI is bullshit, there doesn't exist any artificial intelligence, capable of learning and innovating itself. What we call AI, is just a software with bunch of algorithms and they work like if not A, then B. AI is just a collection of algorithms, it doesn't have neurotransmitters to feel anything or create anything like human can.

Quote from: examplens on April 18, 2024, 04:32:41 AM

Maybe it's time to think about moving the forum to a friendlier zone until the new limitations come.

Offshores? DMCA free countries? I hope this forum will not get hunted like The Pirate Bay.

Quote from: mindrust on April 18, 2024, 06:41:43 AM

That way we can tell the US to gf himself.

Doesn't exactly get like that if you don't do what they want. And also, I think that theymos doesn't want himself in any trouble.

Quote from: JollyGood on April 18, 2024, 07:59:56 AM

one will always ask the question about why the new/updated forum was never completed.

Because owners don't care. Even SMF isn't upgraded and I don't understand why.

I am sorry but that is what they want you to think. Along with they make knuckle and finger errors when they do an image.

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Quote from: Synchronice on April 27, 2024, 06:41:57 AM

Yes, administration has taken some measurements and all I am saying is that it should be understandable for everyone. If we don't want this forum and its owners to be haunted for the sake of additional income that mixers signature campaigns provide, then we should be okay with the rule that includes banning of bitcoin mixers. This forum is still pretty much a very welcoming for freedom of speech, only mixers are excluded and there are very fair reasons for that.

Kind of weird how mixers are banned, but scam is allowed here Tongue

Welcome to a new world Grin

Quote from: Synchronice on April 27, 2024, 06:41:57 AM

Can you please explain to me why Epochtalk was even launched?

You can find some of the reasons in this post - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/current-requirements-523070 (That was a decade, 1 month and 1 week ago Shocked

)

Quote from: Synchronice on April 27, 2024, 06:41:57 AM

I am a little newbie on this forum compared to many people. By the way it doesn't really make any sense, admin starts a new forum software development, probably puts some money in it and hires developers, then abandons it in the middle development process and doesn't even update the SMF. I am not critiquing theymos, I am just curious about that.
Just like you and many people, I think that this forum will be like this until theymos hesitates to pay server expanses.

He gave these reasons, but that was 5 years ago. Perhaps it's the last post I know where he talked about the new forum software progress. Maybe we will wait some two or three more years for another update on the progress.

Quote from: theymos on February 25, 2019, 08:28:23 PM

The things blocking a transition from the current software to the new software are:
- There hasn't been enough testing. I think that immediately after transition, a variety of small missed features, bugs, and performance issues would crop up. As a result, if the transition happened now (which is technically possible!), I'd expect the post-transition user experience to be poor for months while these things are fixed, which I don't want.
- I am the only bitcointalk.org sysadmin and on-demand programmer, and I'm used to the current software. Furthermore, I need to frequently make changes to the current software, but each change I make might require alterations to Epochtalk, which is problematic.
- The current PHP software, while ugly and sub-optimal in many ways, performs well, especially since I have extensively modified the backend to add features and improve performance. So I don't feel much urgency.
- The data-transition procedure still has a few known minor bugs.

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Quote from: Synchronice on April 27, 2024, 06:41:57 AM

Can you please explain to me why Epochtalk was even launched? I am a little newbie on this forum compared to many people. By the way it doesn't really make any sense, admin starts a new forum software development, probably puts some money in it and hires developers, then abandons it in the middle development process and doesn't even update the SMF. I am not critiquing theymos, I am just curious about that.

This is the part that nobody except theymos can answer with complete authority and information because the rest of us simply do not know, we can only speculate as to what has been going on for that many years and nothing of substance has been put forward to demonstrate any sort of development.

Quote from: Synchronice on April 27, 2024, 06:41:57 AM

Just like you and many people, I think that this forum will be like this until theymos hesitates to pay server expanses.

As far as I can conclude the lack of development on a modern forum is not related to server expenses. The server fees are quite obviously being paid otherwise the forum would not be functioning with the scale that it is currently operating at. The lack of development on a modern forum that would be far more appealing to new members (or potential new members) has been something that has (to my knowledge) never been explained properly.

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Quote from: joker_josue on April 26, 2024, 02:10:43 PM

Quote from: Synchronice on April 26, 2024, 07:08:08 AM

Offshores? DMCA free countries? I hope this forum will not get hunted like The Pirate Bay.

To prevent this from happening, the administration has created some rules to avoid this situation.

Tomorrow could be different, just sometimes you need to let the dust settle.

Yes, administration has taken some measurements and all I am saying is that it should be understandable for everyone. If we don't want this forum and its owners to be haunted for the sake of additional income that mixers signature campaigns provide, then we should be okay with the rule that includes banning of bitcoin mixers. This forum is still pretty much a very welcoming for freedom of speech, only mixers are excluded and there are very fair reasons for that.

Quote from: JollyGood on April 26, 2024, 05:37:33 PM

With the amount of donations received and currently sitting comfortably in a wallet controlled by the admins, they do not even need SMF add-ons and patches to launch something truly spectacular for the community. They can hire the best of the best to make a bespoke forum but for one reason or another it never transpired. Years later, we are still waiting but many have given up and accepted this is how the forum will look like even 10 years later.

Quote from: Synchronice on April 26, 2024, 07:08:08 AM

Because owners don't care. Even SMF isn't upgraded and I don't understand why.

Can you please explain to me why Epochtalk was even launched? I am a little newbie on this forum compared to many people. By the way it doesn't really make any sense, admin starts a new forum software development, probably puts some money in it and hires developers, then abandons it in the middle development process and doesn't even update the SMF. I am not critiquing theymos, I am just curious about that.
Just like you and many people, I think that this forum will be like this until theymos hesitates to pay server expanses.

JollyGood

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With the amount of donations received and currently sitting comfortably in a wallet controlled by the admins, they do not even need SMF add-ons and patches to launch something truly spectacular for the community. They can hire the best of the best to make a bespoke forum but for one reason or another it never transpired. Years later, we are still waiting but many have given up and accepted this is how the forum will look like even 10 years later.

Quote from: Synchronice on April 26, 2024, 07:08:08 AM

Because owners don't care. Even SMF isn't upgraded and I don't understand why.

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Quote from: Synchronice on April 26, 2024, 07:08:08 AM

Offshores? DMCA free countries? I hope this forum will not get hunted like The Pirate Bay.

To prevent this from happening, the administration has created some rules to avoid this situation.

Tomorrow could be different, just sometimes you need to let the dust settle.

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Quote from: Synchronice on April 26, 2024, 07:08:08 AM

Quote from: cryptosize on April 17, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

What if an AI entity decides to start mining BTC? What is the IRS gonna do? Huh

C'mon, AI is bullshit, there doesn't exist any artificial intelligence, capable of learning and innovating itself. What we call AI, is just a software with bunch of algorithms and they work like if not A, then B. AI is just a collection of algorithms, it doesn't have neurotransmitters to feel anything or create anything like human can.

Yeah, as a software engineer I can tell you that AI is just a bunch of neural networks that transform one sequence of bytes into another. It has no capability for general-purpose computing.

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I did not call it (and have no intention of calling it) anything other than what I have already alluded to. Regardless of whether they were a stack of Pi 3 or any other version, mindrust added a nice little turn in his post by adding the random image. In my opinion it was aptly called a mini-monstrosity by myself, surely nobody would take that away from me Grin

Quote from: Cricktor on April 20, 2024, 08:09:30 AM

Don't call this stack of Raspberry Pi very very old versions (likely Py 1 Rev. B mostly, the top is probably the best of the bunch, not sure if this is even a Pi 3). It hardly looks impressive but this stack of low computing power I wouldn't dare to call a server, frankly. A forum on this crap would be torture even for only a few visitors.

Don't get me wrong, mindrust joked a little, meanwhile we derail the thread's topic to quite an extend. Yay?!

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Quote from: cryptosize on April 17, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

What if an AI entity decides to start mining BTC? What is the IRS gonna do? Huh

C'mon, AI is bullshit, there doesn't exist any artificial intelligence, capable of learning and innovating itself. What we call AI, is just a software with bunch of algorithms and they work like if not A, then B. AI is just a collection of algorithms, it doesn't have neurotransmitters to feel anything or create anything like human can.

Quote from: examplens on April 18, 2024, 04:32:41 AM

Maybe it's time to think about moving the forum to a friendlier zone until the new limitations come.

Offshores? DMCA free countries? I hope this forum will not get hunted like The Pirate Bay.

Quote from: mindrust on April 18, 2024, 06:41:43 AM

That way we can tell the US to gf himself.

Doesn't exactly get like that if you don't do what they want. And also, I think that theymos doesn't want himself in any trouble.

Quote from: JollyGood on April 18, 2024, 07:59:56 AM

one will always ask the question about why the new/updated forum was never completed.

Because owners don't care. Even SMF isn't upgraded and I don't understand why.

NotATether

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bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on April 23, 2024, 07:54:13 PM

It looks like some scammers are now trying to take advantage of the gap left due to the mixer ban.

What should be done to users who register in the forum to post phishing/fake mixers?
Are they going to be banned or this is a situation where they just get tagged since it's not a real Bitcoin mixer but just a phishing site?

Take an example of this guy ---> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/best-bitcoin-mixers-in-2024-5493906 (archive: https://ninjastic.space/topic/5493906)

Take them to BitMixList where all links are vetted and verified.

Topic: Mixers to be banned (Read 23083 times)