What about the lost BTC? | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: 2Pizza410000BTC on April 04, 2024, 10:47:17 AM

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

When the price of Bitcoin was very low and in other words when it was almost worthless, those who didn't care about the Bitcoin wallet lost the seed phrase of the wallet without any recovery, so assume that those of you who lost it will never recover from that wallet. Can't and if it can be recovered then it will instantly become a billionaire/ trillionaire. Moreover, if more bitcoins are added to the total bitcoin supply, it will be declared as a bitcoin scam. They will not receive any compensation for losing BTC.

Humans are very emotional and human emotions are always most focused on the present which is why you will focus on what is most profitable for you in the present. In the same way people mined bitcoins or bought bitcoins for fun in 2009-10 but they couldn't have predicted that it would be so valuable in the future. And that's why they didn't take care of their wallet keys and they lost their bitcoins. And those who don't have a wallet have no chance to access the bitcoins. Those bitcoins are now Velunes. they can only be viewed but not used or enjoyed

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

When the price of Bitcoin was very low and in other words when it was almost worthless, those who didn't care about the Bitcoin wallet lost the seed phrase of the wallet without any recovery, so assume that those of you who lost it will never recover from that wallet. Can't and if it can be recovered then it will instantly become a billionaire/ trillionaire. Moreover, if more bitcoins are added to the total bitcoin supply, it will be declared as a bitcoin scam. They will not receive any compensation for losing BTC.

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Pretty early on I had a hard drive crash and took with it my Bitcoin wallet. I had my private keys backed up of course but I still had some learning to do about change addresses. I still have no idea how much BTC is sitting in that wallet in change addresses that I was unable to recover and I also am aware of an address that had at least 0.4 BTC on it that wasn't backed up at the time of the crash, so at the very least I have a dead hard drive with 0.4 BTC on it. Maybe someday it will be enough to have someone try and recover it and maybe they'll find me a lost stash of who knows how much BTC in change addresses. I'm certain there's some and possibly as much as 50 BTC, but I don't trust any technician enough to hand over my hard drive and compromise my keys. Someday...

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on February 12, 2024, 08:19:52 AM

Quote from: _act_ on February 12, 2024, 08:11:28 AM

No, lost bitcoin are gone forever. If you want to recover any lost bitcoin, try all possible way to recover back the private key or the seed phrase

Exactly, and adding more Bitcoin in the total supply will destroy and bring chaos to it's existence. If someone can possibly gues the private keys or seed phrases of those lost Bitcoins he or she got that one in a trillion luck.

This is one of the disadvantages of decentralization, if Bitcoin had a central office or authority that someone who lost their BTC can report to, then we won't have these issues of it being lost forever. I don't think that it'll be possible to add more Bitcoin to it's total supply because it'll cause more chaos like you said than any good, it was created to have a limited supply and it should remain so. Finally if password is forgotten and seed phrase is lost, then there's no hope of recovering the BTC, I've had the painful experience and it's not something to wish on anyone. To avoid being a victim of lost Bitcoin forever, it's best to take extra care and hide your seed phrase in different secured locations.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Lost coins are overall good for the market because the maximum supply is much lower and with lower supply and ever increasing demand it will eventually create this artificial scarcity that would raise the price of whatever is on demand which in this case is bitcoin, now that's the perspective of the whole market excluding the person that has lost those bitcoins. I don't even think chaos would even ensue, there's no way that you have been in this market for a long time and you still don't see how chaotic the market is? Bitcoin is a volatile asset that could just dump overnight without any reason or pump for the same thing, that's already chaos OP, no way that bitcoin could get more chaotic than that if you ask me.

LDL

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Lost Bitcoin means that Bitcoin is lost forever and that Bitcoin can never be recovered. Bitcoins from Bitcoin wallets that have been inactive for a long time and have not yet been accessed and the owner is unknown will be considered as lost Bitcoins forever.
These lost bitcoins will never replace the total supply (21 million bitcoins) but rather the lost bitcoins will be removed from the circulating supply of bitcoins. Again if the lost bitcoin owner becomes active then the active bitcoins will be added to the circulating supply.

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Quote from: $weetne$$ on April 03, 2024, 05:21:39 PM

Quote from: ndutndut on April 03, 2024, 05:07:16 AM

This is just an assumption as an example, if 5 million bitcoins can never be recovered again, then that would lower the maximum limit from 21 million to 16 million. So it is true as you said that the price of bitcoin will increase many times because the number of bitcoins is increasingly limited.

The price of Bitcoin will always increase because halving reduced the reward for miners and it reduced the supply of Bitcoin being introduced into the market. The lost Bitcoin also helps to make the Bitcoin will hodl to be valuable and this is why we have to keep holding the Bitcoin we own.

This is technically true. Well according to price history f bitcoin, for every halving marker the price of Bitcoin creates a new floor price and makes the price higher. Talking about the lost BTCs, it wasn't proven yet that it was truly lost. It just happened that there is about 5 million BTCs that are not flowing. Which means it is not being transferred or circulated in the market. If the lost wallets and BTCs are proven to be right, then I would take that as a bullish sentiment because it just really decreases the limited amount of BTC to 16mil.

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Quote from: ndutndut on April 03, 2024, 05:07:16 AM

This is just an assumption as an example, if 5 million bitcoins can never be recovered again, then that would lower the maximum limit from 21 million to 16 million. So it is true as you said that the price of bitcoin will increase many times because the number of bitcoins is increasingly limited.

The more Bitcoin are being lost the more the supply of Bitcoin is reducing, it won't reflect officially on the total supply of Bitcoin that is 21 millions but we can't have 21 million Bitcoin trading in the market because some of them will be lost by early users and future users and there are some individuals that'll die without anybody being available to claim their Bitcoin as they didn't tell anybody about their investment in Bitcoin because of security reasons. The lost Bitcoin are lost forever and will never be recovered. The price of Bitcoin will always increase because halving reduced the reward for miners and it reduced the supply of Bitcoin being introduced into the market. The lost Bitcoin also helps to make the Bitcoin will hodl to be valuable and this is why we have to keep holding the Bitcoin we own.

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Quote from: FinePoine0 on April 02, 2024, 04:07:07 AM

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

No, there is no way it can be fulfilled. Because your bitcoin is lost if you can recover then definitely try it. But it will never be possible for someone else to compensate you for this

If such a compensation system were in place, the value of Bitcoin would be much lower. Bitcoins have the highest value because lost bitcoins are not recovered.

I believe the OP did not know the mechanism of operation of Bitcoin, that is the only reason why he can be asking that question. If the structure and the operating system are left as it is now and based on the initial plans, then nothing can be done as the OP wanted and your advice will be so correct in that regard. Well, all hope is not lost yet, we can only say that we can talk with the present mode of operation, but later in the future if Satoshi shows up again, maybe there can be some upgrades, addition and subtraction and unbelievable things that people did not believe is possible and also which people are clamouring now but for unheard.

Bitcoin is a project like never before and Satoshi had his plan though the plans are now known to be very faulty, and that is why projects like Ethereum are getting more relevance if not for the pioneer status of Bitcoin that is helping it. For now, we should enjoy it while it lasts and the Bitcoin you lost is lost forever since it is a decentralised system. No way such can be recovered, not even with Satoshi's intervention in this current Bitcoin system since it is an open-source, nothing is hidden.

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Quote from: DabsPoorVersion on April 03, 2024, 05:48:51 AM

Quote from: ndutndut on April 03, 2024, 05:07:16 AM

Quote from: SeriouslyGiveaway on March 04, 2024, 02:07:19 AM

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Of course, that will not happen, the Bitcoins lost due to losing the private key will be lost forever. There is no compensation for that Bitcoin, because from the beginning Bitcoin was created in such a certain quantity and no one, not even Satoshi, can fix it. Because of this, Bitcoin has value, and the actual number of Bitcoins that can circulate on the market will be much lower than 21 million. This is an advantage for those who are holding Bitcoin, because I believe the price of Bitcoin will grow many times more than its current price.

Yes that's right. lost bitcoins there is no compensation for those Bitcoins because the final supply of bitcoins will not increase. Whether you admit it or not, a lot of bitcoins were lost, especially in the early days of Bitcoin, so many people didn't realize that the value of bitcoin would be what it is today, so many of them forgot. Seed Phrases, theft, and transaction errors.

This is just an assumption as an example, if 5 million bitcoins can never be recovered again, then that would lower the maximum limit from 21 million to 16 million. So it is true as you said that the price of bitcoin will increase many times because the number of bitcoins is increasingly limited.

Correction, the maximum supply of Bitcoin will not decrease from 21 million to 16 million just because there are 5 million Bitcoins that was considered lost forever or that can never be recovered. Those 5 million Bitcoins will only be treated as less amount in the total circulating supply. The total supply will remain at 21 million and will not decrease due to the lost Bitcoins.

Yes, the bitcoin supply would not change even if more bitcoins were lost, but those bitcoins that are lost and have no way to get them back, that would also leave the circulating supply of bitcoins 21 million bitcoins lower. So, there is nothing wrong if people think that the bitcoin supply is lower than 21 million bitcoins. What we need to care about is the amount of supply circulating in the market, not the total amount of supply, and the less supply circulating, the more value will increase.

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Quote from: ndutndut on April 03, 2024, 05:07:16 AM

Quote from: SeriouslyGiveaway on March 04, 2024, 02:07:19 AM

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Of course, that will not happen, the Bitcoins lost due to losing the private key will be lost forever. There is no compensation for that Bitcoin, because from the beginning Bitcoin was created in such a certain quantity and no one, not even Satoshi, can fix it. Because of this, Bitcoin has value, and the actual number of Bitcoins that can circulate on the market will be much lower than 21 million. This is an advantage for those who are holding Bitcoin, because I believe the price of Bitcoin will grow many times more than its current price.

Yes that's right. lost bitcoins there is no compensation for those Bitcoins because the final supply of bitcoins will not increase. Whether you admit it or not, a lot of bitcoins were lost, especially in the early days of Bitcoin, so many people didn't realize that the value of bitcoin would be what it is today, so many of them forgot. Seed Phrases, theft, and transaction errors.

This is just an assumption as an example, if 5 million bitcoins can never be recovered again, then that would lower the maximum limit from 21 million to 16 million. So it is true as you said that the price of bitcoin will increase many times because the number of bitcoins is increasingly limited.

Correction, the maximum supply of Bitcoin will not decrease from 21 million to 16 million just because there are 5 million Bitcoins that was considered lost forever or that can never be recovered. Those 5 million Bitcoins will only be treated as less amount in the total circulating supply. The total supply will remain at 21 million and will not decrease due to the lost Bitcoins.

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Quote from: ndutndut on April 03, 2024, 05:07:16 AM

()
So it is true as you said that the price of bitcoin will increase many times because the number of bitcoins is increasingly limited.

Are we too focused on bitcoin supply? If we think that the more bitcoins we lose and the less the supply, the more the price will rise, then should we pray for more bitcoins to be lost?

Personally, I don't care too much about the supply, what I care about more is the convenience, features of bitcoin more than anything. Because creating an asset with limited supply is not that difficult, and with an asset with limited supply but no use case, how can it increase in price? Look at ETH, it has an infinite supply but its value is not low.

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Quote from: SeriouslyGiveaway on March 04, 2024, 02:07:19 AM

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Of course, that will not happen, the Bitcoins lost due to losing the private key will be lost forever. There is no compensation for that Bitcoin, because from the beginning Bitcoin was created in such a certain quantity and no one, not even Satoshi, can fix it. Because of this, Bitcoin has value, and the actual number of Bitcoins that can circulate on the market will be much lower than 21 million. This is an advantage for those who are holding Bitcoin, because I believe the price of Bitcoin will grow many times more than its current price.

Yes that's right. lost bitcoins there is no compensation for those Bitcoins because the final supply of bitcoins will not increase. Whether you admit it or not, a lot of bitcoins were lost, especially in the early days of Bitcoin, so many people didn't realize that the value of bitcoin would be what it is today, so many of them forgot. Seed Phrases, theft, and transaction errors.

This is just an assumption as an example, if 5 million bitcoins can never be recovered again, then that would lower the maximum limit from 21 million to 16 million. So it is true as you said that the price of bitcoin will increase many times because the number of bitcoins is increasingly limited.

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Quote from: MusaMohamed on April 02, 2024, 12:03:27 AM

Quote from: BALIK on April 01, 2024, 11:30:44 PM

Increasing the bitcoin supply is a terrible idea and I do not expect it to be proposed and passed under any circumstances. Although supply is not the only factor that makes bitcoin as valuable as it is today, and many people are also focusing too much on bitcoin's supply, because if bitcoin does not have any outstanding utility, then that supply is worthless. But we should not arbitrarily change or increase supply because if you change it once, it will happen next time. This will reduce the reputation of bitcoin thereby reducing the value it achieves.

For people who are Bitcoiners and already joined Bitcoin community, it does not make sense to increase total supply.

For outsiders, who dislike Bitcoin or hesitated to join Bitcoin community, they want to see total supply increase with some reasons. One can be their hope to see cheaper price for 1 BTC to enter. Another reason is simply because they dislike Bitcoin and want to see its price to fall.

So as insiders, we have no reason to satisfy outsiders because of their benefits or just because they want to destroy Bitcoin value and price.

I don't think these suggestions come from outsiders because they are not related to bitcoin, there is no reason for them to care about it. I think this idea comes from greedy people in the market. Just like the ideas of BRC20 once created a wave of fierce opposition from the bitcoin maximization community, but in the end it still happened for the benefit of the group behind it. I think sooner or later someone will propose increasing the bitcoin supply, but let's hope it never gets passed and becomes a reality.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Bitcoin model is the model of scarcity. If bitcoin is abundantly available for everyone, it will definitely lose its value. Even satoshi nakamato in the white pepper addressed this issue by saying that the lost bitcoins are advantage to the Bitcoin network because it increases it scarcity status. In his words, he is of the opinion that lost bitcoins should be regarded as bitcoin sent to everyone's addresses Grin

The bitcoin developers should and will not try to touch the 21 million fixed supply because that is the key to bitcoin success.

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Bitcoin whitepaper purists should take note that the following things are NOT described in the whitepaper:

multisig
mining pools
21M coin cap
GPU & ASIC mining
10 minute block times
HD address generation
best chain = cumulative PoW, not longest chain
and much, much more...

Source & Click here: https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1023689161096785920?t=vTuu_ZedJIdymoFYCfr4UQ&s=19

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

No, there is no way it can be fulfilled. Because your bitcoin is lost if you can recover then definitely try it. But it will never be possible for someone else to compensate you for this

If such a compensation system were in place, the value of Bitcoin would be much lower. Bitcoins have the highest value because lost bitcoins are not recovered.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 08:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

there is a office mate of mine that have had this experience when he was being paid
of 10 bitcoin back in those days but he did not pay attention or give importance because
those days the value is just a couple of dollars,not until 2017 when he have heard in news
about the increasing value of bitcoin and yeah regret everything.

Quote

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

nope there are no chance of adding more btc in the circulation not unless Satoshi
will return and have some act on this.

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Quote from: BALIK on April 01, 2024, 11:30:44 PM

Increasing the bitcoin supply is a terrible idea and I do not expect it to be proposed and passed under any circumstances. Although supply is not the only factor that makes bitcoin as valuable as it is today, and many people are also focusing too much on bitcoin's supply, because if bitcoin does not have any outstanding utility, then that supply is worthless. But we should not arbitrarily change or increase supply because if you change it once, it will happen next time. This will reduce the reputation of bitcoin thereby reducing the value it achieves.

For people who are Bitcoiners and already joined Bitcoin community, it does not make sense to increase total supply.

For outsiders, who dislike Bitcoin or hesitated to join Bitcoin community, they want to see total supply increase with some reasons. One can be their hope to see cheaper price for 1 BTC to enter. Another reason is simply because they dislike Bitcoin and want to see its price to fall.

So as insiders, we have no reason to satisfy outsiders because of their benefits or just because they want to destroy Bitcoin value and price.

BALIK

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Quote from: MusaMohamed on April 01, 2024, 11:13:25 PM

Quote from: Iranus on March 04, 2024, 06:31:56 AM

Bitcoin is open source and managed by the community, so I think that if there is consensus from developers, miners... then printing more bitcoins is possible. I think we can theoretically change the supply of bitcoin but doing so is very difficult and almost impossible. If someone makes a proposal about it, it will definitely cause fierce debate in the community, it is no different from an impossible task. If I remember correctly, we also had a discussion thread about this issue right on our forum.

It is possible but the community don't want it. They know that part of Bitcoin value is contributed by its limited supply, 21 million bitcoins.

They are smart enough to know that if in history, Bitcoin total supply can be voted by Bitcoin nodes, community members to increase its total supply, there will be more events like this to increase Bitcoin total supply many more times. Then, belief in Bitcoin and its fixed total supply will be broken.

This idea is only from people who don't have bitcoin and hesitate to buy bitcoins. They want to have more bitcoins in total supply to have cheaper price to buy. They are for their benefits, not for benefit of the whole community. They also miss a point that if Bitcoin total supply can be increased, they will not get benefit in a long term too.

How is the 21 million Bitcoin cap defined and enforced?
Can Bitcoin's Hard Cap of 21 Million Be Changed?

Increasing the bitcoin supply is a terrible idea and I do not expect it to be proposed and passed under any circumstances. Although supply is not the only factor that makes bitcoin as valuable as it is today, and many people are also focusing too much on bitcoin's supply, because if bitcoin does not have any outstanding utility, then that supply is worthless. But we should not arbitrarily change or increase supply because if you change it once, it will happen next time. This will reduce the reputation of bitcoin thereby reducing the value it achieves.

Topic: What about the lost BTC? (Read 1156 times)