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deisik

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on December 15, 2016, 05:53:32 AM

If you think you can give money to a bank and they just store it for you, which means that they do not invest it, and give you an interest rate on top of that, then you are wrong. Because if they promise an interest rate, then they do invest that money, they just do not tell you about it. If they make a good profit, then they keep the earnings for themselves and just pay you the promised interest. But they can also lose and if they lose to much you might not see your money, as this is not risk free.

I don't quite understand what you exactly mean by me being wrong

When I open a deposit in a bank, the bank sets the interest rate which it will pay on my deposit. Whether it is going to sit on the money or reinvest it, I pretty much don't care as long as they don't scam. I can't possibly see how this type of investment is different from any other investment, apart from a fixed interest, of course. On the other hand, it is expected that the bank would be loaning my money to other people and earning profits, part of which it will share with me

1Referee

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Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2016, 05:50:52 AM

The difference between banks and other financial institutions such as web wallets (even if they have the word bank in their name) is that banks can loan money to borrowers while web wallets can't. This is a distinguishing feature of any genuine bank (i.e. attracting money from depositors and loaning it to borrowers).

It was a soft comparison, and not a direct hit. Nothing prevents web wallets or exchanges to hand out bank-like features such as loans, or exchanges that allow their traders to loan out their coins through the exchange's platform (which is already a reality). The main fact is that people still take the term "Bitcoin bank" way too serious. They see it as an official institution which it's obviously not.

Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2016, 05:50:52 AM

Regarding governments never supporting something which could potentially bring harm to their economy, it is also debatable. Bitcoin would most certainly cause damage to a fiat monetary system as such, but not real economy.

If the fiat monetary system is being hammered on, how would that not translate into the real world economy experiencing the negative effects as result of that? They are closely tied to each other.

Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2016, 05:50:52 AM

In fact, anything that would facilitate the exchange of goods better than the currently existing system could only push the real economy forward, not hurt it

Correct, but that's not how governments look at it. Especially when it comes to something as Bitcoin that they have zero control over. In that regard, they are better off creating their own digital currency with the exact features of Bitcoin, but with the government as central point.

Senor.Bla

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Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2016, 05:17:23 AM

Quote from: Senor.Bla on December 15, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: frowsiter on December 15, 2016, 04:44:28 AM

Why not a bitcoin bank?
I think can be a fantastic opportunity, get a place where you can store your coins, get really interest, get "protect" by the national law... Huh

How about your computer, a paper wallet or something else to store YOUR coins. Because if you give the private keys to someone else, then it is not your money anymore. What is real interest? if you want to invest the money, then invest in some company or something. money does not grow just by keeping it looked away. Please explain to me how a bank can protect me better against the national law then i can do myself.

Your post is packed with self-contradictions like a flea-bag with fleas

You talk about investing in some company or something and at the same time insist on storing bitcoins locally, in your computer (or paper wallet). How is giving the private keys to someone else different from investing the same bitcoins in some company? You would still have to give your keys by transferring the funds. Further, how investing in something differs essentially from investing in a Bitcoin bank? If the Bitcoin bank pays you interest doesn't that count as an investment in its own right already, any way you look at it? And last but not least, if banks are legally allowed to accept your bitcoins, they could insure them, and in that very case they would be protected better than the coins in your personal wallet

I see that i have to explain more. You can do one of two things. Store or invest. If you want to store your Bitcoin do so on your computer. If you want to invest, then invest in something that creates value.
When it comes to storing, then i can do a better job then a bank. if i still feel the need of an insurance, then i do it directly with the insurance company and bypass the additional fees the bank will take for it.
If i want to invest, then i have to give my money to a company (unless i want to start my own and invest in myself). In this case it does not matter in which form it is. It can be Bitcoin, fiat or whatever we agree on. There is always a risk involved.
If you think you can give money to a bank and they just store it for you, which means that they do not invest it, and give you an interest rate on top of that, then you are wrong. Because if they promise an interest rate, then they do invest that money, they just do not tell you about it. If they make a good profit, then they keep the earnings for themselves and just pay you the promised interest. But they can also lose and if they lose to much you might not see your money, as this is not risk free.

deisik

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Quote from: 1Referee on December 15, 2016, 05:25:56 AM

Quote from: grta14 on December 15, 2016, 03:53:20 AM

the idea of bitcoin banking i think is a welcome idea because it will become an avenue for people to more of the existent of bitcoin and it value to the economic and as such bringing the government to make it well know to the people and hereby been accepted by people in the economy so bitcoin bank is a good idea

You seriously have no idea what you are talking about. You compare traditional banking to a service such as blockchain.info that might call itself a Bitcoin bank. Because that's exactly what it will be. Look at Xapo, Coinsbank, Coinbase, BitPay, these services can also be seen as a Bitcoin bank. Governments will never support something that goes against all their values and potentially can do a significant amount of harm to their economy. This is something that a certain number of people still haven't realized.

I don't think this is a correct view

The difference between banks and other financial institutions such as web wallets (even if they have the word bank in their name) is that banks can loan money to borrowers while web wallets can't. This is a distinguishing feature of any genuine bank (i.e. attracting money from depositors and loaning it to borrowers). Regarding governments never supporting something which could potentially bring harm to their economy, it is also debatable. Bitcoin would most certainly cause damage to a fiat monetary system as such, but not real economy. In fact, anything that would facilitate the exchange of goods better than the currently existing system could only push the real economy forward, not hurt it

Harlot

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Quote from: Jiyens3 on December 15, 2016, 12:40:35 AM

Quote from: sanakhan1 on December 14, 2016, 11:56:40 PM

i think bitcoin bank is necessary for bitcoin users ,

for what ? i think bank local can help bitcoin users .
so i think if there is bitcoin bank for what ? i think no need

Uhmm I don't know anything about your logic but for me Bitcoin Wallets are as good as banks for holding the Bitcoin you have. With its given volatility it's more than any Interest bearing savings account in a bank. Putting money in a bank is just making big companies even richer while our money is not anywhere near what we expect from it.

zoose

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Sheeple will always want someone to hold their hands & money and tell them what they can and can not do. The entire concept of Bitcoin is to get away from traditional banking mentality. You're your own boss, you're the Bank. Why do people have this need to be dominated in the most critical aspect of their lives: Finance.

I don't get it.

1Referee

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Quote from: grta14 on December 15, 2016, 03:53:20 AM

the idea of bitcoin banking i think is a welcome idea because it will become an avenue for people to more of the existent of bitcoin and it value to the economic and as such bringing the government to make it well know to the people and hereby been accepted by people in the economy so bitcoin bank is a good idea

You seriously have no idea what you are talking about. You compare traditional banking to a service such as blockchain.info that might call itself a Bitcoin bank. Because that's exactly what it will be. Look at Xapo, Coinsbank, Coinbase, BitPay, these services can also be seen as a Bitcoin bank. Governments will never support something that goes against all their values and potentially can do a significant amount of harm to their economy. This is something that a certain number of people still haven't realized.

deisik

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on December 15, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: frowsiter on December 15, 2016, 04:44:28 AM

Why not a bitcoin bank?
I think can be a fantastic opportunity, get a place where you can store your coins, get really interest, get "protect" by the national law... Huh

How about your computer, a paper wallet or something else to store YOUR coins. Because if you give the private keys to someone else, then it is not your money anymore. What is real interest? if you want to invest the money, then invest in some company or something. money does not grow just by keeping it looked away. Please explain to me how a bank can protect me better against the national law then i can do myself.

Your post is packed with self-contradictions like a flea-bag with fleas

You talk about investing in some company or something and at the same time insist on storing bitcoins locally, in your computer (or paper wallet). How is giving the private keys to someone else different from investing the same bitcoins in some company? You would still have to give your keys by transferring the funds. Further, how investing in something differs essentially from investing in a Bitcoin bank? If the Bitcoin bank pays you interest doesn't that count as an investment in its own right already, any way you look at it? And last but not least, if banks are legally allowed to accept your bitcoins, they could insure them, and in that very case they would be protected better than the coins in your personal wallet

Senor.Bla

sr. member

Activity: 280

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Quote from: frowsiter on December 15, 2016, 04:44:28 AM

Why not a bitcoin bank?
I think can be a fantastic opportunity, get a place where you can store your coins, get really interest, get "protect" by the national law... Huh

How about your computer, a paper wallet or something else to store YOUR coins. Because if you give the private keys to someone else, then it is not your money anymore. What is real interest? if you want to invest the money, then invest in some company or something. money does not grow just by keeping it looked away. Please explain to me how a bank can protect me better against the national law then i can do myself.

frowsiter

sr. member

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Why not a bitcoin bank?
I think can be a fantastic opportunity, get a place where you can store your coins, get really interest, get "protect" by the national law... Huh

grta14

newbie

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the idea of bitcoin banking i think is a welcome idea because it will become an avenue for people to more of the existent of bitcoin and it value to the economic and as such bringing the government to make it well know to the people and hereby been accepted by people in the economy so bitcoin bank is a good idea

deisik

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Quote from: xypos on December 15, 2016, 03:20:01 AM

Quote from: sanakhan1 on December 14, 2016, 11:56:40 PM

i think bitcoin bank is necessary for bitcoin users ,

I really have to disagree. If you are just using bitcoin, then you don't need a bitcoin bank. A bitcoin bank is just a fancy name for a bitcoin investment. They want to sound like they are providing you with safe returns when you might as well just loan out your coins on polo or bitfinex and have the same amount of counterparty risk, of them doing a runner.

Bitfinex? You must be kidding mate. Somehow, a lot of people who are just using Bitcoin are using it through one of the numerous web wallets available in Internet. If it ever comes to calling names, a Bitcoin bank would be a fancy name for a web wallet not an investment. Strictly speaking, you could hypothetically consider web wallets as a sort of investment too. I mean those web wallets that pay transaction fees for you and thus allow you to save on the fees in comparison with desktop wallets...

But penny saved is a penny gained

crypto1010

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Honestly this is a 50\50 decision as this would mean easy access of buying and selling of bitcoins and also require some personal info on users using the service to sweep out fraudulent activities
I would like to see this bitcoin bank as a pilot project to see how this goes

Pattart

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Quote from: Rizky Aditya on December 15, 2016, 01:26:10 AM

I would think that more people would like the idea. But instead a lot of people dislike the idea. I thought that it was a great idea because you could get a quick loan if you were in need of some Bitcoin. It is also a good idea because the banks would pay you interest like they do in a fiat bank.

yeah of course there are advantages and disadvantages in bitcoin bank. and of course there are supportive and some are cons. I think bitcoin bank circulated freely, because back again on each user's use it or not it's up to their own

xypos

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Quote from: sanakhan1 on December 14, 2016, 11:56:40 PM

i think bitcoin bank is necessary for bitcoin users ,

I really have to disagree. If you are just using bitcoin, then you don't need a bitcoin bank. A bitcoin bank is just a fancy name for a bitcoin investment. They want to sound like they are providing you with safe returns when you might as well just loan out your coins on polo or bitfinex and have the same amount of counterparty risk, of them doing a runner.

deisik

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on December 15, 2016, 03:01:45 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2016, 01:57:02 AM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on December 15, 2016, 01:39:08 AM

People would like to gain some interest on their funds but most of them won’t be ready to handover their bitcoins (and they are right on their part) but banks or any other financial institutions will only be able to give interests when they will lend it to others and hence the ideology behind middlemen (bank) is to manage the possession and make best use of it.

Millions of people are already using web wallets and willing to hand over their funds to these even if they are paid no interest on the transferred amounts

Well yes, Millions of people are using web wallets but they have faith on the web wallet service provider (at least say that is what they have been told by these services), but when it comes to reuse of funds how many of them would grant permission to use funds from their web wallets for the purpose of lending it to others?

I guess it would largely depend on specific terms

There are quite a few folks willing to lend their money. If they lend this money through a real bank which requires a real collateral to be provided, and the interest they would receive is satisfactory, I don't see why they wouldn't do that. After all, when they lend bitcoins directly, they are still facing basically the same risk, but with Bitcoin banks, it should be way lower on average

steelhouse

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What do you want a bank for when your wallet already is a bank?

You want to loan money out so deadbeats that can't work can make millions off your money. When a bank loans money and the deadbeat that borrows it does not pay it back? 1. The government bails them out. 2. The deadbeat and their posse blames the bank and sues them and the bank pays a fine. 3. Some deadbeat borrows millions of your money makes twice your money then gives you back 2% for your time. 4. The bank owners give themselves loans and buy companies with your money. 5. All of the above

If you don't know the answer is 5 read the books.

Dudeperfect

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Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2016, 01:57:02 AM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on December 15, 2016, 01:39:08 AM

People would like to gain some interest on their funds but most of them won’t be ready to handover their bitcoins (and they are right on their part) but banks or any other financial institutions will only be able to give interests when they will lend it to others and hence the ideology behind middlemen (bank) is to manage the possession and make best use of it.

Millions of people are already using web wallets and willing to hand over their funds to these even if they are paid no interest on the transferred amounts

Well yes, Millions of people are using web wallets but they have faith on the web wallet service provider (at least say that is what they have been told by these services), but when it comes to reuse of funds how many of them would grant permission to use funds from their web wallets for the purpose of lending it to others?

deisik

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Quote from: TastyChillySauce00 on December 15, 2016, 01:32:37 AM

Quote from: Rizky Aditya on December 15, 2016, 01:26:10 AM

I would think that more people would like the idea. But instead a lot of people dislike the idea. I thought that it was a great idea because you could get a quick loan if you were in need of some Bitcoin. It is also a good idea because the banks would pay you interest like they do in a fiat bank.

What's the different from requesting a loan on some sites which provide it then? I guess that the requirements still the same. You may provide some important data or documents and then giving a collateral if it's necessary and you will be burdened by the interests which are quite high for a monthly period or even weekly as you negotiated with the lender. People aren't worrying about the lending system on the first place but if the bitcoin bank is going to be realized. The whole system will turning out becoming centralized

There would be a fundamental difference between lending sites and Bitcoin banks

As far as I understand it, lending sites themselves don't lend anything, they just bring together potential lenders and borrowers. I can't really imagine what kind of collateral could be used online, especially if you are going to borrow a few dozen bitcoins. I've seen arguments that altcoins could be used as such, but as to me, this is complete garbage. If you need money, and you have a stash of altcoins, go and sell them. If you can't, you can't use them as collateral. Bitcoin banks, on the other hand, could demand and receive genuine collateral, for example, real estate, cars, shares, etc

Quote from: Dudeperfect on December 15, 2016, 01:39:08 AM

People would like to gain some interest on their funds but most of them won’t be ready to handover their bitcoins (and they are right on their part) but banks or any other financial institutions will only be able to give interests when they will lend it to others and hence the ideology behind middlemen (bank) is to manage the possession and make best use of it.

Millions of people are already using web wallets and willing to hand over their funds to these even if they are paid no interest on the transferred amounts

Dudeperfect

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Quote from: Rizky Aditya on December 15, 2016, 01:26:10 AM

I would think that more people would like the idea. But instead a lot of people dislike the idea. I thought that it was a great idea because you could get a quick loan if you were in need of some Bitcoin. It is also a good idea because the banks would pay you interest like they do in a fiat bank.

Yes there is a flow of opinions but I see the major debate is regarding control or the possession of the funds. People would like to gain some interest on their funds but most of them won’t be ready to handover their bitcoins (and they are right on their part) but banks or any other financial institutions will only be able to give interests when they will lend it to others and hence the ideology behind middlemen (bank) is to manage the possession and make best use of it.

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