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Adrian-x

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Quote from: adpinbr on January 23, 2014, 10:30:05 AM

2. I do not understand how a distributed exchange involving fiat is feasible. Due to the nature of the dollar you will always require a trusted third party (e.g. ripple gateway).

Thank you:)

I have a hard time seeing how to include non-cryptos in such an exchange, and don't think I could trust any such methodology. The need for crypto-only markets is something I have been anticipating for some time. With so many ways in and out of cryptos I think that fiat will find a way "off-chain" even if more visible fiat exchanges get picked off. Then, the key to eliminating as much friction as possible would be to have a truly reliable, distributed, peer-to-peer exchange between crypto pairs.

Open Transactions - looks like trust free crypto-only markets are cumming, very exciting here is a summary,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teNzIFu5L70

seriouscoin

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what are the best alt coins exchange?

Miz4r

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Quote from: seleme on January 23, 2014, 07:53:56 PM

I almost never was interested in USD markets and whenever I did I usually lost money.

Yesterday or two days ago, can't recall, I first heard about some MoonCoin thing in btc-e trollbox, watched it a bit at coinex.pw and sensed that people want it to become another doge pump. I gambled and bought 80 millions at 4.5 satoshis average. I already made 4.5 btc and still have 40 millions that I could sell for another 9-10 btc right now. I'll probably finish with 15-20 btc profit on that single 2 days trade, there's no chance I'd come close to 10% trading Bitcoin in this flat market with same 4 btc or so of initial investment.

I bought 200k FTC in mid 30s too, I expect at least 50 btc profit on that in no more than few weeks at max., though if I keep my hands strong it could easily go to close to 100 btc when another regular pump comes.

Few weeks ago made 70 btc on DigitalCoin and still have 120k that could go for 40-45 btc now.

Etc, etc... alts are amazing, the best stuff for noobs to make btc gains, they sent me from 7 btc in March to 300+ today, I love them. Cheesy

I am more and more starting to think like this as well. When I saw today BTC was going down I didn't even think about selling BTC for fiat but instead I just put in a few low buy orders on PPC and LTC because I know those two coins react strongly when BTC is going down and they have a pretty solid reputation. For me it just feels much easier to trade between cryptos than between crypto and fiat.

byronbb

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HODL OR DIE

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: adpinbr on January 23, 2014, 10:30:05 AM

2. I do not understand how a distributed exchange involving fiat is feasible. Due to the nature of the dollar you will always require a trusted third party (e.g. ripple gateway).

Thank you:)

I have a hard time seeing how to include non-cryptos in such an exchange, and don't think I could trust any such methodology. The need for crypto-only markets is something I have been anticipating for some time. With so many ways in and out of cryptos I think that fiat will find a way "off-chain" even if more visible fiat exchanges get picked off. Then, the key to eliminating as much friction as possible would be to have a truly reliable, distributed, peer-to-peer exchange between crypto pairs.

I was thinking in some what of an irony of an open-pit style bitcoin/fiat trading arena common during the pre computerized age. Sort of like a high limit satoshi square where guys are screaming orders around. Run it out of a country where the first world oligarchy can't set the "rules".

seleme

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Duelbits.com

I almost never was interested in USD markets and whenever I did I usually lost money.

Yesterday or two days ago, can't recall, I first heard about some MoonCoin thing in btc-e trollbox, watched it a bit at coinex.pw and sensed that people want it to become another doge pump. I gambled and bought 80 millions at 4.5 satoshis average. I already made 4.5 btc and still have 40 millions that I could sell for another 9-10 btc right now. I'll probably finish with 15-20 btc profit on that single 2 days trade, there's no chance I'd come close to 10% trading Bitcoin in this flat market with same 4 btc or so of initial investment.

I bought 200k FTC in mid 30s too, I expect at least 50 btc profit on that in no more than few weeks at max., though if I keep my hands strong it could easily go to close to 100 btc when another regular pump comes.

Few weeks ago made 70 btc on DigitalCoin and still have 120k that could go for 40-45 btc now.

Etc, etc... alts are amazing, the best stuff for noobs to make btc gains, they sent me from 7 btc in March to 300+ today, I love them. Cheesy

bucktotal

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Quote from: bucktotal on January 22, 2014, 11:47:56 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: HeliKopterBen on January 22, 2014, 05:58:48 PM

I have been doing this for almost a year now, however most alts (at least the ones I prefer to trade: PPC, XPM, LTC, NMC) generally ebb and flow with the bitcoin tide, but all have risen in value against the dollar and pretty much every other asset on earth. Buying Alt/Btc ratio during long, slow, drawn out declines and selling on violent spikes has been the thing to do thus far.

So you are saying that you trade out of alts on the spikes and into BTC?

yes, i do the same.

That makes sense, because many of the alts would act like a higher beta BTC. Percentwise the swings would be a bit wider, it is a kind of beta arbitrage.

if your goal is to increase your btc, then you might as well be riding the train when alts are at around their historical alt/btc lows and make these 5-10x jumps every so often. i actually only focus on nmc since i support that network and want namecoins. the other alts are just vehicles for speculation and i dont actually want them, but the principle holds.

kelpy

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Archduke of Criptoaerica, vassal of WallStreetCafe

Quote from: chodpaba on January 22, 2014, 12:51:30 PM

It is a whole lot easier to hedge between cryptos. I would like to eventually see a peer-to-peer crypto solution for exchange directly between different cryptos. I still think that paying attention to BTC/USD speculation is important if you are using alts just for beta plays, but once you take out that correlation I think there is still nicely manageable risk between cryptos. Then you don't even have to worry about being too heavy, or too light USD/fiat at any given moment.

time to time...

http://www.coindesk.com/ethererum-launches-cryptocurrency-2-0-network/
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4683379

adpinbr

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I assume everyone is "all in" on cryptos if you are in this thread lol. Hats off to you, very ballsy I must say (I am only 90% in)

1. Yes I agree on the beta part USD/BTC spikes usually result in a sympathy trade in thinly traded alts with higher betas

2. I do not understand how a distributed exchange involving fiat is feasible. Due to the nature of the dollar you will always require a trusted third party (e.g. ripple gateway).

3. Anyone mind telling me if they have been able to make consistent and replicable returns on the alt arbitrage? and if so what % gains are we looking at?

Thank you:)

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: HeliKopterBen on January 22, 2014, 05:58:48 PM

I have been doing this for almost a year now, however most alts (at least the ones I prefer to trade: PPC, XPM, LTC, NMC) generally ebb and flow with the bitcoin tide, but all have risen in value against the dollar and pretty much every other asset on earth. Buying Alt/Btc ratio during long, slow, drawn out declines and selling on violent spikes has been the thing to do thus far.

There is very strong merit to this. Spikes in the LTC/BTC rate and NMC/BTC rate do correlate strongly with peaks in the BTC/USD rate.

bucktotal

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: HeliKopterBen on January 22, 2014, 05:58:48 PM

I have been doing this for almost a year now, however most alts (at least the ones I prefer to trade: PPC, XPM, LTC, NMC) generally ebb and flow with the bitcoin tide, but all have risen in value against the dollar and pretty much every other asset on earth. Buying Alt/Btc ratio during long, slow, drawn out declines and selling on violent spikes has been the thing to do thus far.

So you are saying that you trade out of alts on the spikes and into BTC?

yes, i do the same.

DieJohnny

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Quote from: Walsoraj on January 22, 2014, 02:22:42 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on January 22, 2014, 02:03:48 PM

someone is working on a peer-to-peer crypto solution for exchange directly between different cryptos
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-reputable-board-members-not-funders-for-distributed-exchange-420885

Ripple.

....sucks

HeliKopterBen

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I have been doing this for almost a year now, however most alts (at least the ones I prefer to trade: PPC, XPM, LTC, NMC) generally ebb and flow with the bitcoin tide, but all have risen in value against the dollar and pretty much every other asset on earth. Buying Alt/Btc ratio during long, slow, drawn out declines and selling on violent spikes has been the thing to do thus far.

Sukrim

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Check out https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3315031 for example then.

Sukrim

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Ripple is centralized through gateways.

Fuck. That.

Is Bitcoin centralized through exchanges? Roll Eyes

MAbtc

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Quote from: MAbtc on January 22, 2014, 02:28:12 PM

I generally agree, and have been moving this direction for some time. My problem is when the best hedge appears to be fiat.

That is fine-and-dandy if you are also interested in preserving a fiat position, but I think in the long term the risk is greater to trade out of cryptos at any time.

Long term, I would agree, but I don't think that necessitates a 100% crypto position at all times.

It is not a fiat position I am interested in preserving per se... only thinking in terms of hedging against a possible BTC/USD (read: crypto) bear market in the mean time.

MAbtc

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I generally agree, and have been moving this direction for some time. My problem is when the best hedge appears to be fiat.

Walsoraj

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Ultranode

Quote from: adamstgBit on January 22, 2014, 02:03:48 PM

someone is working on a peer-to-peer crypto solution for exchange directly between different cryptos
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-reputable-board-members-not-funders-for-distributed-exchange-420885

Ripple.

Carlton Banks

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Kind of an interesting way of looking at it... and it makes me think that buying into bitcoin using altcoins as a proxy would be a useful workaround for any future bitcoin/fiat exchange issues (as well as the current irritations with the fiat based exchanges). A thousand altcoins, and what do you know, they're actually all useful as long as they're traded for other altcoins somewhere!

adamstgBit

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someone is working on a peer-to-peer crypto solution for exchange directly between different cryptos
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-reputable-board-members-not-funders-for-distributed-exchange-420885

aminorex

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Sine secretum non libertas

What is your approach to hedging between cryptos?

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