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Symmetrick

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Quote from: stompix on August 13, 2021, 10:20:18 AM

Leaving the "evaluate", aside, this one is one of the most serious moves, even removing the language support? What about north Koreans Grin

and the Korean diaspora? This makes me think they are desperate to just give in any demand from every country just to stay out of trouble.

Indeed, they turn off any directions and divisions if the regulator starts to show activity there. They don't even try to legalize their business and stay to work. As we can see from the example of a very significant country for Binance. They just quietly stop supporting the national currency, turn off services and announce it. Thank you all - goodbye everyone. Cheesy

Quote from: stompix on August 13, 2021, 10:20:18 AM

This is just pathetic, you cut 70 million poeple from your platform and you still bow down and say thank you, we welcome your regulation!!!
I still have their debit card and a few mbits there, I think it's about time to empty it rather than wake up one week later and see I can't access it anymore, by the end of the year Binance will only operate in Nauru and Tuvalu at this pace.

Soon, the exchange will be so severely limited by regulators that it will only be of interest to countries 3 or 4 of the world. The rest of the countries will find another, more promising platform, using which there will be confidence in the future. Binance, in the light of recent events, no longer has such confidence.

UPD. Binance Suspends Korean Won Trading Pairs and Payment Options

It turns out that in addition to South Korea, residents of Malaysia were also restricted access to the platform.

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/ab37eace9146494d990293d60423a34e

Quote

As Binance constantly evaluates its product and service offerings to remain compliant with local regulations, we will cease the following products and offerings in Malaysia on 2021-08-16 at 04:00 UTC (12:00 PM UTC+8).
MYR trading pairs
MYR payment options
P2P merchant applications
Binance P2P will remove MYR trading pairs on Friday, 2021-08-13 13:00 UTC (21:00 UTC+8). Users are advised to complete all related P2P trades and remove related trade advertisements by 2021-08-13 12:00 PM UTC (20:00 UTC+8) to avoid potential trading disputes.
Please note we are also not operating any Telegram channel or online communication channels in Malaysia.

Binance apparently decided to expand its business in the opposite direction. Cheesy

Symmetrick

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More news from Binance: Binance Suspends Korean Won Trading Pairs and Payment Options

Now the turn came to South Korea, which performed most of the operations on Binance. The statement says that trading with KRW will be discontinued, as well as any payment options associated with KRW. Binance no longer supports Korean.

Another limitation caused by local regulators. Binance is gradually reducing the area of its presence, which means that someone else, more significant and large, will soon come to their place.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 12, 2021, 06:38:36 PM

If Binance needs an executive with tons of experience with regulators, they could just hire someone for that purpose in a position other than CEO, perhaps chief regulatory officer or something of the sort. And no doubt they need someone like that, because I don't think the pressure to conform to the regulations of the various governments of the countries in which Binance operates is going to lighten up; I think the pressure is only going to increase.

Decreasing leverage and margin trading limits was a good move on their part, even if traders probably aren't happy about it. The more leverage they offer their customers, the more casino-like Binance appears, and that certainly doesn't look good to regulators. And yeah, it was a rough month in July, but they'll survive with or without a new CEO.

Quite right, regulation will only increase until Binance either completely obeys the regulators of all countries where it provides services, or until it is completely kicked out from all countries where Binance came with its platform. Today South Korea has lost Binance, and tomorrow who?

DavideBaldini

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@mindrust

I believe money laundering also spontaneously happens when all of these apply:

1) the user of an exchange has not verified his ID
2) he occasionally trades on the exchange
3) he never pays capital gains tax on his profits, and doesn't declare his investments when required by law

AFAIK that is enough to be charged of money laundering. Its illegality doesn't necessarily imply an obnoxious behavior.

mindrust

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Quote from: magneto on August 12, 2021, 04:53:19 PM

It's an eventuality. Binance will likely follow the paths of Bittrex and Poloniex that went before it.

There is absolutely nothing that CEX's can do when it comes to regulatory pressures. The best that they can do in response is to prolong their existence - but eventually they will come under the regulated exchange bracket. Nothing you can do about it.

The whole centralised exchange industry is sort of subject to this invisible diseconomies of scale - the more you expand, the more regulations you receive, and hence the worse off you are.

Makes sense. From that perstective, it is safe to say if you are the owner of a centralized crypto exchange, staying small is better for your company's future and I am not sure if that's a choice because there are so many frauds in the space, these people will use whatever exchange they can and grow them bigger over time. The CEO/owner won't understand what is happening right away, he will think the volume is genuine but in reality, the scammers are laundering their money by using a "clean" exchange till it gets "unclean". That's why exchanges go down 1 by 1 after getting "too" big.

stompix

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Wow!

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 12, 2021, 06:38:36 PM

If Binance needs an executive with tons of experience with regulators, they could just hire someone for that purpose in a position other than CEO, perhaps chief regulatory officer or something of the sort. And no doubt they need someone like that, because I don't think the pressure to conform to the regulations of the various governments of the countries in which Binance operates is going to lighten up; I think the pressure is only going to increase.

They can hire whoever they want, there is no hero that will suddenly manage to make all counties forget about all their regulation and make an exception for cryptos and Binance. The authorities move slowly, they do years and years of paperwork but once that is done nothing can stop them, Binance thought that because nobody is targeting them right now nobody is going to bother them ever. They chose the way of dealing with trouble when trouble comes, Coinbase had a different approach, they started with the bootlicking from the strat, they cared less about the customers and more about their relations with the regulators, obeying every step, and from the outcome, it's pretty easy to see who has picked the better way.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Symmetrick on August 07, 2021, 05:11:11 AM

I think that a change of leadership awaits the exchange, and a change of the exchange throne is not excluded. Perhaps in the near future, the leader among cryptocurrency exchanges will change.

As I said in another thread related to this one, I don't think a leadership change is imminent:

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 07, 2021, 02:36:45 PM

So the CEO said he would be willing to be replaced by someone with "more regulatory experience"....but the headline kind of makes it sound as if there's going to be an imminent transition of power at Binance, and that doesn't appear to be the case. He could have been saying that just to sound more pro-regulation in case those regulators are watching what he says (and no doubt they are). In fact, I'm almost certain that's exactly what's going on here.

If Binance needs an executive with tons of experience with regulators, they could just hire someone for that purpose in a position other than CEO, perhaps chief regulatory officer or something of the sort. And no doubt they need someone like that, because I don't think the pressure to conform to the regulations of the various governments of the countries in which Binance operates is going to lighten up; I think the pressure is only going to increase.

Decreasing leverage and margin trading limits was a good move on their part, even if traders probably aren't happy about it. The more leverage they offer their customers, the more casino-like Binance appears, and that certainly doesn't look good to regulators. And yeah, it was a rough month in July, but they'll survive with or without a new CEO.

magneto

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It's an eventuality. Binance will likely follow the paths of Bittrex and Poloniex that went before it.

There is absolutely nothing that CEX's can do when it comes to regulatory pressures. The best that they can do in response is to prolong their existence - but eventually they will come under the regulated exchange bracket. Nothing you can do about it.

The whole centralised exchange industry is sort of subject to this invisible diseconomies of scale - the more you expand, the more regulations you receive, and hence the worse off you are.

slaman29

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Quote from: DavideBaldini on August 11, 2021, 07:43:28 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on August 11, 2021, 02:05:07 AM

But once fiat off is disabled, then the exchange will be over.

Binance rose to prominence w/o any support for fiat at first. Until about last year it was necessary to use a second exchange or service to buy crypto with fiat, then deposit crypto into Binance. Curiously, now it seems common opinion that the removal of fiat means the end of Binance.

Yes but that was because most exchanges at the time had no fiat support. Now to have an exchange that is just crypto alone, you might as well use a DEX, which is why Uni and others (including pancakeswap) are popular. But people now need a place to buy and sell crypto for fiat. And my question still remains, is EURO withdrawal still available?

DavideBaldini

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Quote from: slaman29 on August 11, 2021, 02:05:07 AM

But once fiat off is disabled, then the exchange will be over.

Binance rose to prominence w/o any support for fiat at first. Until about last year it was necessary to use a second exchange or service to buy crypto with fiat, then deposit crypto into Binance. Curiously, now it seems common opinion that the removal of fiat means the end of Binance.

crwth

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Quote from: stompix on August 10, 2021, 11:20:54 AM

Yeah, too bad things aren't moving forward in that area:
Binance US chief Brooks quits after four months

I never knew that this was the case for the Binance US. But this is quite concerning for sure in the growth of the exchange itself.

Upon reading the profile of Brooks, he is definitely a qualified person for this type of regulation, and the fact that no one commented on the departure makes it even odder and confusing and makes it open to more speculation on the "legitimacy" of the exchange.

Quote from: stompix on August 10, 2021, 11:20:54 AM

The guys they hired for this exact purpose are quitting, it might be something else, but the simple explanation for it is that they saw the tasks as impossible.

With the headline and subheading of the title with the Brazil director seen below

Quote from: stomachgrowls on August 10, 2021, 03:21:05 PM

As if there are any other options? This isnt talking about stepping down but they wouldnt really be having any choice but to accept on whats mandated or else then this would really be risking on putting down the business.

This supports the decentralization that we all want in the first place and making sure that there is no one else that could be affected by this type of regulation. Being the #1 on crypto exchanges poses a lot of risks for sure and this is just the start. Other exchanges are probably are just silently looking at what's happening to the #1.

slaman29

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Sorry OP yes, I did understand the headline so all is clear. Now the important question and I asked before also if deposits are disabled are withdrawals also disabled? because that will be the killer blow. People will still be able to deposit direct bitcoin from their own wallets if they want to trade on Binance and I think BSC swapping still shows strong volumes so this is probably the saving feature for Binance. But once fiat off is disabled, then the exchange will be over.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: crwth on August 10, 2021, 10:35:11 AM

I can't believe that CZ is willing to do that but I think that is to make investors in Binance more confident and to say that they are doing this to make sure they stay at the top. I think there's nothing wrong with that. Moving forward with this, I think they would just be open to hiring that certain someone who is more capable on making decisions for the regulations etc, no need to step down.

As if there are any other options? This isnt talking about stepping down but they wouldnt really be having any choice but to accept on whats mandated or else then this would really be risking on putting down the business.

As they do like for it to continue then they would be needing to apply even if its against on the overall idea or concept of decentralization. We people on this market had some options if regulation becomes strict

in Binance but i wont be surprised that most of platforms would really be following the same path as years would be passing out.

DavideBaldini

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Stompix, Fort Knox was a tangent. But to my understanding Tether does have a better audit than the gold reserve at the present time, after Bitfinex's reserves were fully exposed to the public.

The core of the argument however was about regulations. The perception of fraud in Tether's lack of reserve lies in the same bucket as the lack of reserves backing the dollar. The difference, the dollar is not publicly recognized as a scam because, contrarily to Tether, its monetary expansion and inflation enjoy the persuasive endorsement of authoritative figures who religiously persuade us that, somehow, this monetary policy fosters our own wellbeing and the stability of the market.

This doesn't save Tether from also being a piece of junk.

stompix

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Quote from: DavideBaldini on August 10, 2021, 09:39:41 AM

But it's evident I never looked into Tether and assumed the situation became comparable after Bitfinex's trial exposed Tether reserves to the public.

And that didn't stop you even for a second to claim it's more audited than fort knox.
Second, there was no trial, it was an investigation and a settlement, and Bitfinex agreed to pay 18 million, so why did they pay?

Quote from: DavideBaldini on August 10, 2021, 09:39:41 AM

However, Mindrust's focus is about the extension of regulations to the minting of crypto, as if the dollar itself is not printed out of whim for speculative interests, with effectively nothing to back the value of its monetary expansion except people's force of habit in its daily acceptance.

And your stablecoins are backed by the same pieces of paper that have only value because of the force of habit of human being
So, can you please explain how are IOUs backed by toilet paper with which you can claim toilet paper more valuable and safer than toilet paper?
Of course, if you think that the dollar is worthless I can always tell you my bank account and you can dump every single one in my account, no? Grin

Quote from: crwth on August 10, 2021, 10:35:11 AM

Moving forward with this, I think they would just be open to hiring that certain someone who is more capable on making decisions for the regulations etc, no need to step down.

Yeah, too bad things aren't moving forward in that area:
Binance US chief Brooks quits after four months

Quote

Brooks’ hiring appeared to have been part of a strategy by Binance.US and its parent to improve their standings by hiring well-regarded former regulators from around the world. Now, Brooks’ abrupt departure, along with last month’s similarly unexpected departure of the director of Binance Brazil after only six months, is bound to raise questions as regulatory scrutiny of the world’s largest crypto exchange by trading volume and its various subsidiaries has only intensified.

The guys they hired for this exact purpose are quitting, it might be something else, but the simple explanation for it is that they saw the tasks as impossible.

crwth

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I can't believe that CZ is willing to do that but I think that is to make investors in Binance more confident and to say that they are doing this to make sure they stay at the top. I think there's nothing wrong with that. Moving forward with this, I think they would just be open to hiring that certain someone who is more capable on making decisions for the regulations etc, no need to step down.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: mindrust on August 10, 2021, 04:22:59 AM

Apparently, no developed country wants to do business with binance and they have nowhere else to go.

I'd guess that something like this is what makes them start complying with the regulations, whether they (and us) like that or not.

Quote from: Symmetrick on August 07, 2021, 05:11:11 AM

CZ apparently understands that it is easier for him to give control to someone else than to try to solve this lump of regulatory problems that hit the stock exchange.

I think that a change of leadership awaits the exchange, and a change of the exchange throne is not excluded.

CZ may find it cozier to stay in the shadow, since if compliance is still not done, charges may start coming here and there... That doesn't mean (at all!) that he will abandon and forget his baby.
And yes, this kind of big movements in the world of exchanges has the potential to bring a new leader; but I'm not sure if there's any worthy one this time...

DavideBaldini

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Quote from: stompix on August 10, 2021, 09:09:30 AM

Interesting that you claim it has been audited so many times when even their CTO, Stuart Hoegner claimed that an audit is months away in July.
So, on what do you base your claims?

I've read Paxos audits, they were complete to the cent and in good standing. But it's evident I never looked into Tether and assumed the situation became comparable after Bitfinex's trial exposed Tether reserves to the public.

However, Mindrust's focus is about the extension of regulations to the minting of crypto, as if the dollar itself is not printed out of whim for speculative interests, with effectively nothing to back the value of its monetary expansion except people's force of habit in its daily acceptance.

stompix

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Quote from: DavideBaldini on August 10, 2021, 08:23:44 AM

For how much Tether sucks, it has better auditing than Fort Knox.

Oh really?
Interesting that you claim it has been audited so many times when even their CTO, Stuart Hoegner claimed that an audit is months away in July.
So, on what do you base your claims?

Quote from: hugeblack on August 10, 2021, 04:37:40 AM

Also, the withdrawal limits are the same. When the price of bitcoin was 5000, the limits were 2 bitcoin, now the limits are the same if the price goes up.

I can't wait to see the same happening for fees, still at over 20$!

As for Binance, it's interesting to see how their myth of invincibility is slowly eroding, I've always argued with people on this and I've mentioned a to of times, the government or other regulatory bodies move slowly when taking action, it's not like an exchange breaks the rule sand the next day is banned from the country, this is just the beginning, the snowball has started his voyage a long time ago now it's just that people realize the dangers of the avalanche it might cause.
No matter how big, no matter how much money they have Binance will have to submit, it doesn't matter how much you deal with crypto as long as you need that influx of fiat which is done only by banks (a debit or credit card is still issued by a bank) one that is cut off the money flow dies, so does the exchange.
And unfortunately for them, just as it was slow for the authorities to take action so it will be when they will try to get licenses, it's gonna be a long journey, not two clicks and that's all.

DavideBaldini

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Quote from: mindrust on August 10, 2021, 05:19:59 AM

The real problems are printing fake USD out of thin air

Which of the other Four Elements makes up the substance of those real dollars printed by Powell?

Offsetting the risk of default on loans contracted by commercial banks, and injecting disposable money into the stock market are also not solid elements. For how much Tether sucks, it has better auditing than Fort Knox.

mindrust

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The question is, how will most of the exchange's clients react when there will be a full-fledged KYC for everyone? Of course, the exchange will remain in the top, and it will also have billions of trading volumes, but will it lose its leadership?

They have been already doing it.

If you trade and withdraw a few times with a non-KYC'ed account, they'll lock the account and ask for documents. It happened to me and from what I've read, I can say I am not alone in this.

These regulations will not do much harm KYC-wise as it is already happening. The real problems are printing fake USD out of thin air, selling unregistered securities and of course... money laundering.

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