Topic: ㅤ (Read 1355 times)

User coldice woke up exactly on the day when he needed to transfer 34 merits to his (possibly) alt account. After that, he didn't come back. There would be fewer questions if the coldice account behaved like a normal user, being active before or after the 34 merits spill. Now, his behavior can easily be regarded as a bot account, which was connected precisely in order to transfer 34 merits to another account. His actions are clearly not like he just happened to find HunnyFinance's post and gave it merit because he thought it was a good post. No, he woke up only in order to transfer HunnyFinance measures according to a previously agreed plan, and then again went offline for a long time.

This does not apply to HunnyFinance or coldice.


I wonder what evidence should have been there to make it clear to you personally that these 2 accounts are connected (although they are already connected, because HunnyFinance admitted that he knows coldice)? Probably, so that each account leaves the same signed address, where it would indicate that these accounts are connected, and only then you will say: well, yes, these accounts are connected.

I can even do an experiment. I will create an alt account at 12:00 AM, at 12:30 AM I will create a post, and at 12:31 AM I will transfer 50 merits from my main account to this post. Likewise, I am sure that you will come and say that these 2 accounts are not connected, although experienced users will already understand without further ado that I sent the measurements to myself, no matter how I justify myself. Many people link their accounts in such a primitive way for only one reason, they do not understand how the forum works and how these actions can be tracked, so it seems to them that what they are doing does not stand out in any way. I think that data collection based on our bitcoin activity works according to the same principles. Chainalysis associates the user's identity with bitcoin addresses often using methods that the user is not even aware of due to his ignorance, and it seems to him that everything is in order, his anonymity is not at risk, although he has long linked his personal data with his bitcoin address. For him, this was not such an obvious connection, because he does not know the methodology. People on this forum make the same mistakes, it's just that trust, merits and bounty funds are used instead of addresses.

Coldice Merit activity is very suspicious. All of the four profiles that Merit has thrown are still newbie, two accounts are sent 10 Merit on PZJ and theGillgold as a limit to reach Member Rank.

Coldice suspicion of selling Merit is very strong. Indeed, there is nothing wrong with anyone sending Merit to anyone. Coldice's method indicates that she has sold Merit, especially in the three posts above which are very undeserving of merit.

I have to say it does not look good when you put it that way. Waking up to merit is not a good sign.


If the accounts are operated by the same person then there is an issue because the merits went from one account to an alt-account. If HunnyFinance paid to be merited then that is a different matter but another serious one. However if there is no connection except coldice simply gave away merits to a post that seemed to not deserve it, there is no blame on part of HunnyFinance.

The part that causes concern is HunnyFinance stating they knew coldice.  Maybe a reply from HunnyFinance with screenshots of their PM conversations with coldice would help clarifying the situation.

I didn't understand his opinion either; it looks like he just posted his post to fulfill his quota by bringing up the topic a week later. It seems that the person did not read all the posts but quickly inserted his opinion. I would advise him to read the topic. So it turns out later that everything has already been discussed and clarified and, in principle, does not require clarification. Looking at the thread that Shasan opened recently, he might be suspicious, but today it didn't seem strange to him to send a lot of merit in one post.
Funny.

At this point you are right. We obviously tell you about this if anyone does this type of activity. Yet someone may consider especially for you and a few others who are active in the forum and regularly give merit to a good post. But the case mentioned in the op is totally different. The user usually does not give merit to any account and also came back a lot of times later on the forum.

The best reply I have read lately. Scam busters are so negligent about helping newbies grow all the think about is how the can farm their accounts through busting up accounts. No one learnt about the forum in one day. Some were lucky to have friends who stood as guidance till they found their feet, so many are solo learners. The pass through the stress of reading and understanding all the jargons on the forum all by theirselves. The reason some newbies switch to scam when the heat and frustrations starts knocking and sometimes the target accounts with high profiles.

If coldice had lavished 34 merits on HunnyFinance and there is no evidence to link the two accounts together then HunnyFinance should be judged based on his story. Some times its not good to jump into tagging users scam even when they haven't done anything in that regards. Everyone deserves a head start.

Seriously? You might have confused coldice with some other member.

Based on his account history, these are the only posts he has awarded merits to (apart from HunnyFinance's):

• 10 merits to:
  
  Quote from: PZJ on May 25, 2018, 04:53:15 AM
  Yes, you can take a look at our whitepaper for more details. Do let us know your email address in the website to keep updated of our token sale progress.
  
• 10 merits to:
  
  Quote from: theGillgold on February 24, 2021, 02:23:18 AM
  Great I am from Malaysia, how do I start?
  
• 1 merit to:
  
  Quote from: 4kingclub on February 28, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
  Go to website www.4kingclub.com to register first. Add me on telegram: ag4king
  

Which of these posts do you consider to be particularly high-quality or helpful for the community?



I don't quite understand your point here; do you mind explaining?

Just for a post like the one in the picture is rewarded 34 Merit.! It's really unbelievable.

Based on the scheme that the OP has detailed at the beginning of the topic, I assume accounts coldice has changed hands to the person who manages HunnyFinance.

coldice suddenly woke up from a long sleep after last posting on September 27, 2021, then he went back to sleep after sending merit to HunnyFinance.
The above evidence is strong enough to feedback HunnyFinance for misusing Merit. After seeing this topic, HunnyFinance has been added to my ignore list.

There is nothing wrong with sending these merits. Actually, coldice trying to find out the best quality/helpful post on the forum. And s/he tried to see that from the beginning of the merit system. But before creating the post by HunnyFinance, coldice could not find out any post where coldice can send the merit. But when coldice saw the post of HunnyFinance become too much surprised and awarded the merits.

Surely this is much more than coincidence right?  

Well there is a visual staring right at the screen showing possibilities of an alt-account but it is not conclusive but yes you are right about the merits and we have read what HunnyFinance has had to say about it too.

Right now the only thing I can conclude is that you genuinely probably did not understand how the merit system worked in that you wanted merits to rank up and to provide a sense security for those associating your account with the website business you operate but you probably were unaware of this being looked upon in a negative way within the forum.

You gave your side of the story, whether it is 100% factual or not I see no reason why it should be held against you by members as long as they see nothing to be alarmed at (even if it is highly suspicious that coldice is an alt-account) as long as there is no more merit being given between the two accounts.

Having said that, I hope over time you manage to move away from the alt-account and merit issue and have your own stand alone position within the community. I wish you success in your business and hope you contribute to the forum with constructive posts as and when you are able to.

I have explained my side of the story here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61344886

I do understand this merit system is looked upon seriously in bitcointalk forum, and followed strictly by everyone, as I do now. Because of these merits, I have already been heavily reprimanded. These incidents are cast in stone and @HunnyFinance gotten lots of penalty for this.

That doesn't meant I am a scammer or I am running a shady project.

To me its about constant learning and progression. Having to face so much adversity on this issue in this thread again yet again, I am slowly learning the ropes of doing things right. Whatever has been done can't be changed, but I am doing what I can trying to fit in. Many have given advice and I am very grateful for it. Here's what we heeded and done from some advices given by the community:

1) We got a copper ranking nevertheless.

2) We are paying above market rate for signature campaigns, which I believe not only benefit my business, but also boost the economy of the community in bitcointalk. More will come. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/temp-end-hunnyplay-signature-campaign-up-to-240-per-post-5424288

3) Through my hunnyplay thread, I seeked advice on how to run a casino properly in bitcointalk. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hunnyplayio-best-crypto-casino-1000-fs-13500-330-welcome-bonus-5422950

4) I have also started a thread to try find people in the community to be ambassadors and affiliate in their countries.

If possible, instead of having to drill down on this issue again and again with the same pointers, let me know what other constructive advise can be done to explain myself better, to improve my account, to improve our casino business, or even benefit the community of bitcointalk.

I just made my findings and came up with the conclusion that, for the fact that "Hunnyfinance" was inactive for 11 months, Just woke up, dropped his/her first post not up to 150 words, and got 34 merits in less than a minute, while the sender going dormant 3 minutes after till this very moment, is enough reason for suspicion and a clear indication that both accounts belong to one individual.

I see no reason why such a post should be given 34 merits, if not alt nor traded because it's not worth

For the fact that everyone has control over his earned Merits and whom to send the smerit doesn't mean that giving an abuse of it is allowed here, without the mention of the rule that forbids such one should also know that it's isn't appropriate to do for nasty and shady stuffs with merit which could lead to the abuse of the system, i credit the introduction of the merit system because that's the best way to deal with abusers, trollers, spammers and their likes from the forum ranking up, merit also is a display to how far you have gone contributing meaningfully.

I don't think we blame a newbie for it. Perhaps we do not have enough information at one place for them to understand. We can not expect someone to come and know everything. It takes time and they make mistakes, we all did. I was once banned even knowing the rules it was just not clear to me. Instead of being rude we can just tell them that it was moved by the forum moderator because gambling section is only for bitcoin gambling sites.

Your thread was moved from the Gambling section because it didn't belong there in the first place. Please stop playing the role of someone who doesn't know what's going on and start following the rules.

You are right @Fivestar4everMVP and @BitcoinGirl.Club. I do feel a bit disappointed and upset about the way my new HunnyPlay thread is being welcomed. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5422950.0;all. I would say 80% of the posts I get there is negative and in the name of "fighting scam" and proving they are right by discrediting me. No one is asking the right questions about casino, promotions or events, a lot of questions are based on repeats and re-repeats of negative comments.

Just 1 weekend without reply and it made my thread moved away from gambling section, and a lot of haters building up.

Maybe its hard to fit into this forum culture. It's either I am having major self doubt on my account credentials, or many people here are just damn mean and cynical. I do want to advertise signature and other marketing n signature campaigns like every other casinos here, but if I will be getting this vibe in the long run, I really need to have extremely strong writing skill and stronger heart.



I just got my copper ranking. Hope it helps

This line hit me really hard, and this carries a well deeper meaning than the words used, any user who really cares about the growth of this forum will definitely take this very serious.
I understand the need to have a scam free community, and I really commend the entire community for all the effort put into seeing that this is a reality, from my own personal assessments, I can say that the scam rate in this forum is less than 1 percent, which is a great score.
But then, like they say, too much of every thing is bad, no doubt in the process of trying to keep the community clean, we have lost alot of great and potential members of this forum, and one thing we must understand is that one member lost can equal to five hundred members or more lost, this is because members bring their businesses to this forum, and every business announcement on this forum is an avenue through which more members would join, and more members mean more traffic, and the forum needs traffic to continue to stay relevant in this space, the businesses on this forum need the traffic on this forum to keep paying those wearing their signature ads..
Indeed I support what BitcoinGirl.Club said, we must begin to apply caution to our fight against scam here, we must find a way to do it effectively without hurting the legitimate users who are just joining the forum.

Now I understand its not easy for newbie to get 1 merit without help. And I definitely wont be getting any without knowing and giving good advices, or randomly talking on threads without value. Should I get copper rank to push Hunnyplay casino now since I could post images?

---

Thank you for being understanding towards my end of the story. I really do find it hard to introduce Hunny in this negative atmosphere. But I do get some good positive users from this thread and my HunnyPlay official ANN thread. All I want is to represent HunnyPlay and let the community know that this project is a great platform with a solid team behind it. Now that we have a ANN, we are listening to promoters and seeing what campaigns can be done to make us visible in bitcointalk. The team and I have been working hard to make it happen, that is why my username has been HunnyFinance since the way from the start when I joined bitcointalk.


[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Question is how many newbie accounts or even accounts in altcoin sections know how merit and rank works. His story seems to be a natural story. I still do not understand how 4chan or even Reddit works. If I do anything which is not a good practice in their community but someone or bunch of users start calling me abuser, scammer, shady; do you think I will not lose my mind and even eventually I will tell them fuck off MFs; I am not going to spend a single time with you at all.

We are making the forum too difficult for the people who do not understand how the forum works. When someday the forum will lose traffic, people all over will spread negative experience about us then we will understand what we have done.

This is one of the reason I do not like those so called scam busters who are always looking for others mistakes and accusing account left and right. They are doing no favour for the community but building their own accounts to earn from the signature campaigns and may be when they get a good opportunity to scam a lender or anyone else, they will just do it before abandoned the account.

FYI, you need 1 (one) merit and some activity to reach Jr. Member. So if coldice didn't give you any merit, your account would remain at Newbie position.

Thank you for your advise on purchasing copper member rank. In the end I also did not use the merit as I got promoted to be jr member, I could post thread and able to post images. I did what everyone did by being active and posting useful comments on other people's thread. All you mentioned are good ideas and I am learning new things everyday. Soon I hope I will know a lot more on how to function normally on bitcointalk forum.


Thank you for your fair reply. HunnyPlay has been around for more than 1 year and I hope we will be around much longer. Currently we are healthy in cashflow and is able to give out megawins from slots without any problems.
Reference:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61214573

Well, at least he bothers to come out to explain his side of the story, As everyone is entitled to their opinions. so I guess its about whether you trust and experienced the project to determine if its legit.  Personally I have been using HunnyPlay.com for the last few months and have been satisfied with the experience thus far. Again this is my personal experience/ opinion. Best is to give it a try to for yourself.

Personally I don't care with your stories since anyone can create a wonderful story and denying the truth, also I don't believe with your shitcoin project. But a weird merit overflow can't be considered as shady or scam, I don't think he can't pay copper membership fee since right now it's cheap. As long as there's no accusations about your casino, I will say your casino currently still doesn't have any bad reputation. It's up to anyone decision if they want to try new casino or not, since brand new casino has higher risk than the old casino.

Having to read all these comments make me felt upset about this indirect linkage for being accused a scam (or possible scam). But I do understand how everyone in this forum wants to make this forum as safe as possible.
 
Initially, I didn't find that I have the need to explain my account as I thought its a neutral tag and not really suggesting anything negative. Yes, I would agree that sending merits is werid but doesn't mean that my intention is to scam.

So here's my side of the story and I sincerely hope that my explanation to end this thread peacefully.

I knew coldice for a long time since way back. Coldice was one of my first few "friends" on bitcointalk and has been good help in advising me on how to do things with crypto. I know that he has been helping people to post threads and doing some other trading businesses in crypto. 
 
Hunny project started as a DeFi project around mid 2021. I needed to venture into this forum so I asked him to help. My account is not credible and strong enough to start post with images and do campaigns.

And he did helped to post a few of our project ANN and Promotions threads. That is why you saw some of the not so popular postings by him as mentioned in the forum

But I was astounded when his account was also promoting scam and got a few RED FLAG ALERTS. So when I read my threads, the red flag suggesting that its a scam on top of his account was so prominent that I told him to remove all my posts he had posted for me.

It was a really a turn off for me as it potentially tarnished my branding and I felt very disappointed in him as I trusted him so much...

A few months ago my team decided to venture into bitcointalk and I started talking to coldice again to ask for advise again. Only this time, I would like to post the threads myself. I was still very upset with him, and he was very guilty with all the projects that he had ruined(and ruined his own account apparently). So he wanted to give me a headstart boost on my bitcointalk account(That's where you saw this +34 merits). I have no idea what merits can help but its seems hard enough to get.

What matters most is HunnyPlay is a legit running business that already been running for more than 1 year, and isn't a shady startup project like how coldice "accidently" helped others to push.

We are here all here to run businesses and not to push scam. I know bitcointalk is an important place for me to meet fellow gamblers and project owners. I hope you guys won't deprive me from having the opportunity to come back to this forum again and meet people and share my projects.

Bump

This user is create their own casino and has create proper announcement with decent graphic design ⭐HunnyPlay.com | Best Crypto Casino 🎲 180% Welcome Bonus 🎁 28% Cashback. Although the casino looks interesting, but this may look shady since he got 34 merits from negative tag user and the post is deserve for 34 merits.

However there's still no sign if he will scam anyone, so the neutral tag he got before is already enough until right now.

This user's password was reset recently.
This user recently woke up from a long period of inactivity.

That was an excellent observation. Most probably an account has never had a password reset and woken up after a long period and also sent 34 merit to another user within the space of 1 minute 

I agree, this was not dome either by chance or in error.

Sooner or later any connected accounts will unravel, in the end they always do. By sending merits from one alt-account to another, they hope to build rank but the haste of those behind the sock-puppets is usually a major factor in their downfall.

You did nothing and you did not step on his toes. He is an attention-seeking troll as you probably know from other threads where he and his buddies were defending the indefensible while spouting nonsense about me and other members that challenged them. For what it is worth, him distrusting you is meaningless because the troll himself is untrustworthy.

You are right, it is a clear abuse of the merit system and it most probably should be addressed and noted.

As for those that have double standards in the trust system (such as the troll following FatFork around), you are absolutely correct, it is pointless to either debate, engage with or argue because they are not worth giving any attention to. Speaking of which, I found this feedback that was left for you somewhat laughable because it is ridiculous and should never have been left but when they are driven by revenge the trolls and attention-seekers do weird things:





There is no doubt about it, getting 100% consensus on any or most subjects or issue in the forum is probably impossible.

That sounds like a reasonable take on the situation and I respect that view.

I would go a little further, after he has been alerted via PM I would be expecting the puppeteer to post in this thread using both accounts justifying the situation using an explanation worthy of me eating popcorn and enjoying the scene akin to watching a movie on the cinema. I could possibly even nominate him for a best actor award as his drama unfolds but that all depends on the quality of post he makes trying convince us beyond reasonable doubt the accounts are not connected 

I completely agree with your statement.

At the moment from what I have read in the thread, I would conclude the purpose of the sending the merits is probably to assist in ranking up the account for farming purposes which would then be used for signature campaigns and bounties or for something else including nefarious purposes.

There is no scam right now and now it may not help to scam. But the sender of the merit is a scammer and also sent tremendous merit (34) to a newbie account. It may rank up and use to scam again. For a newbie account, with vouch cant help with scamming without a good rank.

Very apt. I often fall in the category of those who doesn't care when the case doesn't affect the community in anyway. Why I became interested in the case is because the merit sender already has negative tags and a flag raised on the profile by lovesmayfamilis and supported by other reputable members of the forum. It therefore means that if the newbie account happens to be his alt, there is likelihood that he'll keep scamming with the new account.
Assuming both accounts have no red tag, I would have scroll passed with the speed of light.
For the fact that one of the people involved here is a scammer, I don't think that FatFork is wrong by leaving a neural tag.
The neural tag may also drag the attention of more people to this topic to give their judgement. If proven that they aren't connected, he can as well remove the tag.
No hard feelings here.

Since you got this and it looks there could be a connection like friend sent to friend or service sent to employee or merit were bought or sending them to alts. Anything is possible. Whatever it is, since it's just merit, I will not take it seriously. It used to be a serious case long ago.

In the mean time I think it's okay to remove you from the distrust. So I did.

FatFork, have you done the research before I distrusted your or after? It's a few days ago's incident and I can not remember it correctly.

Noone agrees 100% about anything on this forum I don't think. You're always going to have those whom agree with a decision made, Those who disagree, and those who don't care or stay neutral in a situation. You'll never make anyone happy.

In this case I would stay neutral unless it is proven the 2 accounts involved are alts( it looks obvious but not 100%). Without absolute proof I wouldn't want to take the chance on damaging someones reputation forever as we all know it's hard to get back to positive once accused. I do find it odd that neither account involved have made a post here, so the 1st place I would start would be by sending them both a pm to this thread and getting their response. Then go from there.

The take to merits and undefined nature of what a quality post looks like (which in fact is a double edge sword; as it makes some behaviours to meriting unquestionable) are some of the reasons that promotes merit abuses as I don't see how a not properly composed text could come by such merit in a matter of  wake ups and minutes.

Of course it does raise an eye brow and having a few users question as to why isn't exactly a bad idea! Though, it's not evident enough to prove anything nor should I say could warrant a tag but, a thread already serves some use to the case and course. For the few who would be looking, this thread is some good enough reference.

I am surprised how this issue lingered. Though the issue is somewhat controversial and any decision taken by anyone here would be considered as fair if it does not leave a neg tag.
The above case has some signs of;
1. Merit abuse
2. Alt connection
3. And a poorly scripted drama by dumb actors.

If the victim was to help a friend, would it not be better not to send the merits at once considering the quality of the post upon which the merits were bestowed.

If someone could leave a neutral tag to a user which he suspects and eventually changed email. What's the big deal leaving a neutral tag on a suspected merit abuse post.

I still don't see the case.

I posted something similar here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61106493


Giving 5 merits to someone, instantly someone opens a topic, look alt. And if it's an alt how it disturbes you? It has nothing to do with feedbacks or vouches ratings ...It takes your place in a signature campaign? Does it cheat a campaign? The campaign wants visibility, why would it matter if it is same user?

A new user in order to increase his rank here, he needs to either follow same shilling as old members, such as finding bounty scammers etc, or shill the same way they do in the threads of trust.

Look at the bitcoin discussion thread, how many posts in a topic made by new members are merited. It's a disgrace. Now some users won't merit just because they are afraid to ruin their accounts, someone will just show up and blame he is his alt. There are no new members in the last years because of this, look at the statistics and the activity on the forum.

It is the 1milionth topic on the merit issue and you are still debating it as it is a new system....that's spam.

edit: in the thread i posted the link above my post got 0 merit and the post of etfbitcoin with 2 links in it and 40 letters got 1 merit. I find he's reply on topic and super chill, but why mine wasn't? what's the point of the system if the merit is not sent at all?

I hope thyemos don't see it. Bro  


Because we don't want all the newbies to become depressed and leave the forum, we were once newbies and made mistakes that many old DT overlook. I remember a case with _Blackstar when he was a newbie, he got a neutral for having a username similar to Darkstar, he got bullied, and I was one of those DT who stood by him and motivated him not to give up because of the neutral tag, it may seem insignificant to us but to the newbies
 
I'm not comfortable with the wordings but I don't care.

I stopped messing around in other DT's accusations threads since I became DT1. If the OP who is a DT doesn't have the balls to tag, I don't give a fck. Nowadays, I only tag what I discover on my own.



You let the cat out of the bag so late, I've already shot you in the head.

Yes, I'm afraid I did. I hope it won't break the forum somehow.  


Why does everyone get their panties in a twist about a simple neutral tag on a newbie account? I can change the wording if you have a better suggestion, but I don't think the text is negative. Simply stating the facts.
Besides, I didn't leave the tag just because of the merit drop, but mostly because of this:



EDIT: I forgot to mention, when I was doing my research, I also came across this:


[archive]
[archive]
[archive]

All these topics were started by coldice, but later deleted. That was additional proof that he is connected to Hunnyfinance and that it is possible that this is another of his scams. Most likely a slow rug pull.
So, you can see that I do my research even when it comes to the neutral tags.  

On my FatFork! You did that?

Man did nothing wrong; he was simply recycling his unused merits to help the merits system function properly. It appears to me that a friend decided to assist a friend because his account has already been ruined, and that is not abuse. The neutral tag has no effect on one's account, but it becomes an issue when the text behind it is negative. (Your text)

Nobody questions it when DT members drop 50 max merits on two liner posts every day, but when a natural member does the same thing, everyone looks up..

I assure you, you did not step on my toes. Don't get bad feeling from it. I made it clear that when you have urge to leave feedback then it's not good.

It's a great topic to read. While I agree with many, I also don't agree with some. It's a topic to give a general idea, not a granted guide.

I don't think this is the best way to use your custom Trust list. "You should exclude users who leave inaccurate feedback." ^[reference] , but I guess that's your prerogative and you can do whatever you want with your trust list as far as I'm concerned. Although I'm not entirely sure what I did to step on your toes, I don't really care.

Don't take it negatively.




Do you see how desperate you are to write on other peoples trust page?
That's where the practice is wrong. I am not saying the feedback you left for HunnyFinance is wrong but the urge you feel inside to leave feedback is totally wrong in my view.

I am going to distrust you exactly for the reason of your strong urge of leaving feedback. There are no other reason. You are possibly a good fella in the community.

Neutral tag, with a neutral tone being clear that it's not exactly set in stone, and instead highlighting suspicions, sure. I personally won't be leaving a feedback score, and would just keep this in mind in the future.

The thing with neutral tags is a lot of the times the actual content within that neutral tag (i.e the text) is rather negative, and potentially could sway the user one way another without actually investigating themselves. So, neutral tags should probably stay as neutral as possible in tone when it comes to explaining why you've left it.

I'm certainly not the standard setter when it comes to feedback though. I relatively inactive in that scene.

Welsh, thank you for your input. So in your opinion, a neutral tag with a short explanation and a reference to this thread would be appropriate in situations like this?

FatFork has got it right. While, these are suspicious circumstances there's just not quite enough evidence to link the two. However, anything that these two users do in the future, could potentially link them, and confirm the suspicious here.

Plus, if they start offering services or try to join a signature campaign a good signature manager will do their research, and likely find this thread, and take it into consideration. So, I don't consider posting the thread detrimental to catching them if they're alts or bought merit. However, I don't think there's enough compelling evidence to link the two accounts either.

I have no issue with scam bursters or alt account investigation; there is nothing wrong with cleaning the forum, but making it a daily job is where the problem lies. It is preferable to report when you step on something suspicious rather than searching for something suspicious. I will use my DT status to correct mistakes rather than make new ones.


I'm off to the gambling section because that's the only place where there's no drama.

Most of these accounts end in deadlock because they cannot generate more merits and therefore will not be able to earn more money so the only mistake would be for the campaign manager who accepts members without merits, did not review the merit history, or at least create a new rule like you must get a single Merit every week or two.

But it is wrong to take any action regarding trust.

Merit history checking, checking plagiarism, busting scammers, investigating alternative accounts are always a thing for a group of people. It always will be. Like you said those with "over-wise" sometimes make it their career to climb the ladder of the forum. It's fine occasionally you find something and talk about it but when it become a regular routine for someone then it's questionable. Why? Let's talk about it some other day 🤣

TL is exceptional from my experience though.

Only evidence removes doubts, and I've yet to see any previous connections between these two accounts. On the other hand, it's very possible for a random user to wake up and decide to spread his smerits as he pleases to random accounts, and I've seen a case or two like that in the past where a user woke up and started spreading merits to reputable and non-reputable members in order to have some merits activities..

Merits are personal, and how they are distributed is up to the user; I see many shit meme posts in the WO thread get many merits for being so shit! I saw you give a post 50 merits instantly, and TBH , I wouldn't give such a post even one merit. It's a matter of personal preference.

There could be connections to these accounts, but we don't have proof.


Lol there is this famous phrase "some people are wise, some are over-wise "  the over-wise ones tends to do much, they see being on DT as job so they must write at least  1 feedback/day.

The forum has become so boring that we now investigate a number of smerits given out.

Merit can't help someone to scam because it's meaningless for reputation, anyone will look on his feedback to know if the account is trustworthy or not. Based on this case the account only have 4 activity which is he can't rank up since he need to post more and he can only rank up to Member rank. Since signature campaign mostly accept full member rank, I think this matter isn't really that matter. It's a different case if he haven't earn any single merit and someone give them 5 merit since the campaign requirement need at least 5 merit in 120 days to apply the campaign.

In any case, this was not done by chance. We will soon be convinced of this and understand what purpose was pursued. Earlier, he also sent out 10 merits to new accounts for completely trifling posts. But all his accounts are now asleep. I think that the new idea will also fall asleep soon.

Why does it matter? How merit helps him to scam? There are no vouches on his profile.

Not necessarily a neutral feedback about merit abuse, but rather one talking about a possible linkage between hunnyfinance account to that of a serial scammer. I was thinking the timeline of events, including the sudden donation of merits to hunnyfinance was enough evidence to confirm that both accounts are linked.

If I still left negative trust for merit abusers, this is one case where I'd have no doubt about what's going on.  If the timing alone weren't enough evidence, the fact that 34 merits were given to an absolute shitpost should eliminate any doubts that these two accounts are either alts or that there's some merit being sold.

Theymos might have written that guidance a while back, but it's not like he's going to punish anyone for tagging an account in an instance like this--nor would many, if any, DT members have any problem with it either.  My point is that if you think this is blatant merit abuse and warrants more than a neutral feedback, my advice is to be bold and leave a neg.  No debate is needed when the shenanigans is so obvious you'd have to be legally blind or sound asleep to miss it.

Unless there are concrete evidence we have no right to write anything in others trust wall even with neutral feedback. The forum gave too much freedom to the users who are regular (us) just to do what we like wherever we like.

For the record this was mentioned to consider in general. Sorry I failed to point it out so you thought it was meant for this particular case.

On the contrary, since the trust system is designed for, to quote theymos, "getting a general idea of someone's trade history and trustworthiness in one convenient location" ^[reference], and taking into account the evidence presented by Ratimov, it makes perfect sense for a neutral tag with a reference to this thread. After all, while "user notes script" may be useful for taking personal notes, it is in no way a substitute for a proper-ish trust system when it comes to making people feel safe while engaging in transactions with questionable characters.


That may be so, and there is even a saying about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, however, I don't see any of these points as valid arguments against leaving the neutral tag in this case.

The Trust page of another user is not a dairy taking place for others. logfiles can easily keep a note for himself using Ninjastic's (TryNinja) users note extension: [Script] BitcoinTalk User Notes

These days I see too many neutral tags which actually can not be considered as neutral but a way to underestimate others. Most of it are given to achieve two agenda:
1. Of course to underestimate the users who they do not like
2. To build up their own reputation proving that they are always active to find wrong doings.

Both are bad since it's all are in personal level.

It's probably not enough evidence to link these two accounts beyond reasonable doubt, but I don't see any harm in leaving them neutral feedback for future reference.

I'll just add those member to ignore list, so i won't accidentally give them merit.

I think it's not important enough:

The fact that coldice wakes up, Hunnyfinance then suddenly makes 2 posts after almost a year of silence and immediately receives 34 merits in one of the posts in a short time span means both accounts are under one person's control.

Coldice has negative rep involving at least 3 scams and I think they are trying to farm another account

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

Well, I see that coldice has his fair share of negative feedback.
Is this enough proof for also neg HunnyFinance? If people consider it's not, then it was a good move for a "fresh start".

I don't know what's wrong with old account and then Woke up. lately, I found a lot of newbie accounts with enough Merit to climb the rankings. an account that has been sleeping for a long time and then wakes up. got some past Merit from alt their accounts which had already retired due to negative tags.

Is ignoring accounts and reports moderator enough to limit the growth of such spammers on forums?

ㅤ