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stompix

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Quote from: DrBeer on December 14, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

The problem with cryptocurrencies is that they actually do not have unique useful properties for the real market.
Let's try to enumerate
1. Data integrity based on blockchain protocol. Ok, there is. The scope is rather narrow.

This was already covered before bitcoin, distributed databases have existed for years, are tested material, are already in use at a giant scale, Cassandra is one year older than bitcoin for example, far more used than any other blockchain projects and am I seeing Amazon trashing SimpleDB for ..tron? or solana? Lol.

Quote from: DrBeer on December 14, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

2. Simultaneous processing of a large number of transactions. OK. Let's say. But where is the international system on the blockchain? Partially, financial institutions use blockchain, but massively and widely - no!

Visa is doing just fine and it's highly unlikely we will ever need trillion of transactions between accounts a day, not with this world population.
For a private company or for a government a distributed public database is really not something that attractive, as I'm pretty sure not that many bitcoin fans would like to see all Visa transactions published online, even if it's only their card number and not their full name in the that.

Quote from: DrBeer on December 14, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

And when there was hype, there was a lot of money, there was a situation “we don’t know where to put money / profit” - yes, crypto companies recruited a lot of staff, created a lot of projects, often really useless from the very beginning ....

Exactly, there was no real need for them in the first place. Did they make a lot of money and had a ton of customers, yeah, fidget spinner sellers did the same, but that doesn't mean it will go on forever with the same cash inflow. None of them has done the magical things it was supposed to create or at least fix, and what's actually sad is that the main purpose of Bitcoin and its strong point is starting to be demoted outside the podium when it comes to the purpose of using it.

Crypt0Gore

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Few years back I was one of those that kept saying that Bitcoin can't do everything on it's own but honestly, today it doesn't matter, the most important part of crypto existence is digital money and decentralised, government free world and Bitcoin have already accomplished all this..

Yes today's developers are bad mouthing Bitcoin saying a project is faster and better, but what is the point?

I believe that 2023 will bring even more heart breaking recession and many people wont be prepared for it, I've stopped by coins right now until mid of 2023 to see what happens.

justdimin

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www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games

Quote from: DrBeer on December 14, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

The problem with cryptocurrencies is that they actually do not have unique useful properties for the real market.
Let's try to enumerate
1. Data integrity based on blockchain protocol. Ok, there is. The scope is rather narrow.
2. Simultaneous processing of a large number of transactions. OK. Let's say. But where is the international system on the blockchain? Partially, financial institutions use blockchain, but massively and widely - no!
And everything else is digital assets, smart contracts, DAG, NFT, and so on - cool, but has no real and wide application in the world.

All of those are stuff that would make it a good one but doesn't need in the end. I mean I agree that it would be good to have, there is no denying there, I could name 10 more stuff that would be great, those are not wrong and I definitely agree with all of them. However, they are not needed to be able to do anything, they are just good to have things and nothing more.

I know that it's not going to be easy to accept this, but bitcoin is good all on its own without needing any help at all and that is why I am pretty sure that it's not going to be a big deal at all. I think the best thing to do right now is just to focus on what we have, instead of dreaming what we could have to be better.

DrBeer

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The problem with cryptocurrencies is that they actually do not have unique useful properties for the real market.
Let's try to enumerate
1. Data integrity based on blockchain protocol. Ok, there is. The scope is rather narrow.
2. Simultaneous processing of a large number of transactions. OK. Let's say. But where is the international system on the blockchain? Partially, financial institutions use blockchain, but massively and widely - no!
And everything else is digital assets, smart contracts, DAG, NFT, and so on - cool, but has no real and wide application in the world. And when there was hype, there was a lot of money, there was a situation “we don’t know where to put money / profit” - yes, crypto companies recruited a lot of staff, created a lot of projects, often really useless from the very beginning .... Therefore, when a global event happened in the real world crisis, the crypt did not become either a savior, or an assistant, or a "quiet bay" ....
PS Although I'm almost 100% sure that geto in a year or two, the market will shake again and the next "cream" will be removed

TheGreatPython

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on December 13, 2022, 09:39:58 PM

The pursuit of machine learning or big data is for making a living or anything else ? If it is for money, I guess the process of being an expert and making profts is not short either, only if you meet the right mentor to learn from. To be honest, I see crypto industry very muck like financial or relative industries because all they do is deal with trading and numbers, they or we don't produce anything or value. It's just a game of numbers. What is productive or can be seen as productive is purely about making food or machines that enable people to see as tangibles. To make great money out of financial and crypto industries alike ? Don't have to be many times, just once is enough. Always live within our means and focus on what we do. I guess this mentality works better than what you do and how much you make.

We are talking about businesses here so yes it's for a living but if you want to, it can also be a good hobby. To become an expert is not easy but it will take a long time of learning and trials & errors even with a good mentor. Cryptos are currencies so yeah they are still part of the financial industry.

It's a game of numbers but there is a value in here which is why we can produce a profit. Being productive doesn't always mean about creating a product but it's about how you move. If you are not lazy and do things accordingly then you can be considered as a productive person. To live within our means seems fine to hear but I think this is boring. How we can grow if we don't push our selves outside our limits?

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

I really don't understand how some are viewing this whole crypto industry and how they are changing their criteria so that everything is always fine, in this case, even the layoffs are normal because, well, the others do so.
Lets's take, for example, Amazon, indeed it fired 10 000, but it's 10k out of 1.5 million, that's 0.6%, let's look at the table above and we see mainly 10% to 30%. Walmart is firing, yeah it does, but it's 3k out of 1.6 million in the US alone even if we take the worst hit, Meta with 13% would still be near the bottom of the table.

And not, there is the other thing, wasn't this whole crypto thing suppose to grow in these times, provide the thousands of jobs everyone talked about, replaced the current failed system, and so on, why it is going down with it?
I really don't get this attitude of, everything is fine the others are sinking too, this constant need turned obsession of sugarcoating things.
Let's just be realistic, a lot of those companies had no reason to exist in the first place and a lot more are the result of a completely flawed business model that some thought was viable long term.

Marcellin9

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 11, 2022, 02:15:22 PM

That's why making a career in crypto is risky. We have no idea where this field will be in 5 years, maybe it will all crash down and no one will need all the blockchain developers, crypto consultants, crypto marketers and so on. There's so many things better to do, like machine learning or big data, because even if they are hyped now, they still have strong fundamentals and aren't going to go away anytime soon.

The pursuit of machine learning or big data is for making a living or anything else ? If it is for money, I guess the process of being an expert and making profts is not short either, only if you meet the right mentor to learn from. To be honest, I see crypto industry very muck like financial or relative industries because all they do is deal with trading and numbers, they or we don't produce anything or value. It's just a game of numbers. What is productive or can be seen as productive is purely about making food or machines that enable people to see as tangibles. To make great money out of financial and crypto industries alike ? Don't have to be many times, just once is enough. Always live within our means and focus on what we do. I guess this mentality works better than what you do and how much you make.

hatshepsut93

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That's why making a career in crypto is risky. We have no idea where this field will be in 5 years, maybe it will all crash down and no one will need all the blockchain developers, crypto consultants, crypto marketers and so on. There's so many things better to do, like machine learning or big data, because even if they are hyped now, they still have strong fundamentals and aren't going to go away anytime soon.

Smartprofit

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Catalog Websites

Quote from: teosanru on December 09, 2022, 12:01:18 PM

Interesting statistics, especially on the layoffs, there is absolutely zero buzz about so many employees being laid off by these big exchanges, reasons are obvious, these are hired in bullish times when volumes on exchanges are high and therefore the work is too much as well, infact most of them are on bench as exchanges are earning good, once the earnings of exchanges go down and the quantum of work goes down these staffs are laid off.

There is an opinion that the current crypto winter is not a standard bear market.

Perhaps this time, the crypto winter, by tragic coincidence, coincided with a larger process - a global global economic downturn in the economy. Some futurologists-forecasters even speak of a phase technological crisis (such crises in the history of Mankind happen extremely rarely).

At the same time, Vitalik Buterin wrote that the previous bull market was very long in time. I tend to trust Vitalik Buterin's analytics as he is a very smart and competent IT developer. An active user of insider information, he himself is well versed in the current situation on the technology market.

All of the above facts have led to the fact that the real crypto winter is very harsh and likely to be very long in time.

beerlover

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Quote from: teosanru on December 09, 2022, 12:01:18 PM

Interesting statistics, especially on the layoffs, there is absolutely zero buzz about so many employees being laid off by these big exchanges

I am not finding anything to my interest here because layoffs are happening everywhere as we are slowly heading toward recession, 2008 like situation and we may witness more worsen scenes incoming days if inflation rate will not be in control. Good thing might be the crypto industry got upgraded themselves to a level like how traditional business are working which must be another reason why it is suffering when others do.

Quote from: Symmetrick on December 09, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

this year, a record number of employees involved in various crypto companies were laid off. More than 10,000 employees lost their jobs in a year

When this is not happening only in crypto space, I guess this is not fair to call 'harsh crypto winter'; it must be 'harsh winter' for world wide economy and crypto is now just part of it.

Outhue

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This layoff has been going on since 2017 that I knew about crypto, it seems the same thing will keep happening every crypto bear markets, those who works for crypto companies should always be prepared because it's too obvious that it will happen again.

Once things start to settle and crypto space excitement is making a comeback crypto jobs will be available once again, I don't blame those crypto companies, it is what it is.

Upgrade00

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Playgram - The Telegram Casino

And this is only documented layoffs, I can imagine there are even more which goes undocumented and some which happen indirectly as a result of the Bitcoin bear markets. For example, project managers here on the forum or other Bitcoin related freelancers, who would technically not be laid off can have a sharp reduction in number of available gigs they get due to the bear market.

It also happens to be a global crisis as several large companies try to stay above water with the current economy and have to cut of some of their workforce.

davis196

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It's not just the crypto industry. All the big tech companies are laying off employees and losing market capitalization.
I guess that the "crypto winter" is a part of the "high tech winter". The high tech stocks were massively overvalued due to the mass money printing by the big central banks and the pandemic(when the demand for digital services increased). Now this bubble is getting busted and the entire high tech industry would need several years, in order to recover back to the 2021 levels. The crypto industry would most likely follow this trend.

arabspaceship123

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Job losses you've showed don't make positive air because they're stem from different crypto companies total to 10,000 laid off. Tech sectors isn't protecting jobs. When Meta followed Twitter's mass job losses mantra, I wasn't happy for those booted from jobs. I'm aware it's business but it's brutal.

It's harsh crypto winter for crypto & tech.

Quote from: Symmetrick on December 09, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

Despite the fact that in 2022 many large assets did not lose much of their value in percentage terms (Bitcoin, for example, lost 75% of its past ath), in some aspects this bearish cycle has set its own anti-records.

For example, this year, a record number of employees involved in various crypto companies were laid off. More than 10,000 employees lost their jobs in a year:

m2017

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Crypto winter is not over yet, which means that in 2023, the layoffs of employees in crypto companies will continue. Most likely it will be so, because so far there are no prerequisites for improvement. Crypto companies are experiencing difficult times and will cut costs as much as possible. And the global economy as a whole is also in decline. Crypto winter will be long and very unpleasant for everyone.

bittraffic

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Quote from: JavasetvenQ on December 09, 2022, 09:21:23 PM

Quote from: Symmetrick on December 09, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

~

The winter in the crypto industry will eventually pass, but not all of them will succeed. In fact, not only the encrypted world, but also the layoffs in the real world are terrible. The economic situation is declining, and the economic crisis is not just Bitcoin and his little brothers.

Quote

As of November 17, 2022, at least 132 technology companies with headquarters or offices located in the San Francisco Bay Area have released 141 layoff information this year, totaling about 43,000 layoffs.

Yep more stores in the real world are closing. I've read Walmart and Cosco is also struggling just like many companies that are laying off so it's not the normal winter we experience after halving in the past.

The news every day is all about inflation and war still. The longer they tend to continue the lower the price may be because of the media about FTX. One of the most respected influencers like Mark Moss said that 2021 bull run could be the last bull run in BTC, is it possible?

This topic by the way is similar to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/more-platforms-will-bite-the-dust-5425782

jossiel

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I think we're having the idea that whenever the market goes on a bull run, there will be more demand again thus, these crypto companies/exchanges will start to rehire again due to the flux of customers.

The manpower will be needing more on their end. I do understand why this could be the harsher type of bear market but on the other way as it has been affected more people, indirect investments but employees that have been laid off.

Maybe that the pandemic has something to do with it as well.

JavasetvenQ

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Quote from: Symmetrick on December 09, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

Despite the fact that in 2022 many large assets did not lose much of their value in percentage terms (Bitcoin, for example, lost 75% of its past ath), in some aspects this bearish cycle has set its own anti-records.

For example, this year, a record number of employees involved in various crypto companies were laid off. More than 10,000 employees lost their jobs in a year:

https://i.imgur.com/B15DezT.jpg

The influx of money into the crypto industry has become lower than in the last bearish cycle of 2018-2019:

https://i.imgur.com/x62mf8f.jpg

The capitulation of miners is getting faster:

https://i.imgur.com/NBEIM5d.jpg

Quote

In total, the crypto industry lost about 26,062 jobs as of Nov. 30, 2022, according to CoinDesk.

The winter in the crypto industry will eventually pass, but not all of them will succeed. In fact, not only the encrypted world, but also the layoffs in the real world are terrible. The economic situation is declining, and the economic crisis is not just Bitcoin and his little brothers.

Quote

As of November 17, 2022, at least 132 technology companies with headquarters or offices located in the San Francisco Bay Area have released 141 layoff information this year, totaling about 43,000 layoffs.

Dickiy

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Quote from: Symmetrick on December 09, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

Despite the fact that in 2022 many large assets did not lose much of their value in percentage terms (Bitcoin, for example, lost 75% of its past ath), in some aspects this bearish cycle has set its own anti-records.

For example, this year, a record number of employees involved in various crypto companies were laid off. More than 10,000 employees lost their jobs in a year:

The influx of money into the crypto industry has become lower than in the last bearish cycle of 2018-2019:

The capitulation of miners is getting faster:

If I'm not mistaken this is like a term in economics, namely a bubble that bursts, where in 2021 there is a very significant increase in customers which makes the exchange need a lot of employees to serve its customers and that is a bubble, and when the bubble grows and continues to grow, like on crypto exchanges 2021 and made developers have to increase their employees and finally the "bubble burst" in May and November, so the company had to lay off some of its employees to minimize expenses because the user drop was massive.

yes, this is a normal thing in the economic world, but nowadays not only crypto exchanges but companies/startups like Amazon, Meta, Netflix, Twitter and others are doing the same to streamline their spending, meaning there will be a lot of unemployment in the new year 2023 .

However, there are also companies/startups that take advantage of this moment to lay off employees on the grounds of recession or economic shocks and other things, even though the company is doing well.

avikz

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23ll it's all fine! It's not just crypto companies firing people. The mainstream companies are firing more people. It is happening because the forecast for businesses are becoming realistic because of inflation and reduced purchasing power of the customers. So it's at per the mainstream market. There's nothing drastically different happening in crypto market.

Crypto is a volatile asset unlike any other assets in the market. Every single person and businesses involved in this market, knows this for a fact. So no surprises there as well. People who understands the market, are buying heavily at this price point.

so98nn

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Quote from: stompix on December 09, 2022, 12:24:27 PM

There is no money inflow, there is no money pouring from the sky to pay inflated wages to hundreds of people, new projects are not attracting investors as much, there are no buyers, and the much needed clean-up time is finally here when a ton of useless stuff will finally be thrown where it belongs, in the garbage bin.
Anyone who believed we could simply have millions of people living from crypto by just creating coins and trading back and forth shitcoins is going to have a serious wake-up call, the only services that will not be affected that much will be the ones that don't depend on the value of the coin, gambling sites or merchants because they don't sell coins, they sell services or goods.

Yes, this is similar to thinking that we can get over with the recession by printing more and more money. That is FEDs psychology and method of working. But anyways we have already seen the consequences of such high money printing which comes out of thin air but it does not fulfil the vacates present in the ecosystem. You would be devaluing the currency and once the demand is over it’s gonna crush.

What @stompix stated about crypto is similar to that. Only in this case we have pre minted coins, we have the number but we are unsure of the demand. On fine day it could be heavy on the other day it could be zero.

electronicash

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Quote from: teosanru on December 09, 2022, 12:01:18 PM

Interesting statistics, especially on the layoffs, there is absolutely zero buzz about so many employees being laid off by these big exchanges, reasons are obvious, these are hired in bullish times when volumes on exchanges are high and therefore the work is too much as well, infact most of them are on bench as exchanges are earning good, once the earnings of exchanges go down and the quantum of work goes down these staffs are laid off.

even if its reported on news websites, only the people in crypto will notice this which is less than the 5% of the people on earth. but if twitter or amazon lays off, everybody has to be scared of the coming recession.

or perhaps these employees are indeed only hired during the bull run. they could be just contract jobs to last 3 months to which they are from upwork.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: Symmetrick on December 09, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

The capitulation of miners is getting faster:

I was surprised to see TeraWulf in green there, that 16% up looked weird,but that screenshot is just 24 hours I guess,

Quote

PERFORMANCE
5 Day   18.49%
1 Month   -8.26%
3 Month   -16.93%
YTD    -92.99%
1 Year -96.90%

I don't know a single mining company that's publicly traded that hasn't been hammered to the ground lately, there might be a few that lost a little but also probably small operations that haven't seen the same bull run previously either, so their stocks weren't inflated.

And the reason for the layoffs is simple:

Quote

The influx of money into the crypto industry has become lower than in the last bearish cycle of 2018-2019:

There is no money inflow, there is no money pouring from the sky to pay inflated wages to hundreds of people, new projects are not attracting investors as much, there are no buyers, and the much needed clean-up time is finally here when a ton of useless stuff will finally be thrown where it belongs, in the garbage bin.
Anyone who believed we could simply have millions of people living from crypto by just creating coins and trading back and forth shitcoins is going to have a serious wake-up call, the only services that will not be affected that much will be the ones that don't depend on the value of the coin, gambling sites or merchants because they don't sell coins, they sell services or goods.

teosanru

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Interesting statistics, especially on the layoffs, there is absolutely zero buzz about so many employees being laid off by these big exchanges, reasons are obvious, these are hired in bullish times when volumes on exchanges are high and therefore the work is too much as well, infact most of them are on bench as exchanges are earning good, once the earnings of exchanges go down and the quantum of work goes down these staffs are laid off.

Symmetrick

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