More platforms will bite the dust? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Elpeor00

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 25, 2023, 05:32:42 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 24, 2023, 09:16:08 PM

I have also wondered about this actually. It somehow amuses me. I can remember many years ago that the exchanges to be avoided like the plague are the likes of YoBit and HitBTC. Their brands are almost openly equated with scam. But look how they've survived all the things that caused great exchanges and other too-big-to-fail platforms to lay off employees and even file bankruptcies. It's funny how it seems the last laugh is theirs.

Because YoBit is an outright scam. They don't need to worry about bank runs or anything like that, because they are quite happy to just shut down withdrawals and out right steal the coins of their users. Not to mention that the majority of shitcoins you can trade on YoBit don't actually have a blockchain at all and are created by YoBit only to separate idiots from their bitcoin. It doesn't matter if someone wants to withdraw 10 trillion MadeUpYoBitCoinNumber14, since YoBit can just create that out of thin air whenever they need.

The most surprising thing here is how they manage to continue to attract a steady stream of newbies and idiots to keep them running, even during a bear market. Although their outgoings will be very minimal since they don't need to pay any support staff or indeed process any withdrawals.

This, yobit has been listing and promoting self-proclaimed Ponzi schemes and "cryptocurrencies" without a blockchain for like a decade.

Then they start hosting their own ponzis, branding them as "rise only markets", "investbox" and others, at this point just plainly steal the coins will be an improvement. Yet people still fall for it, even when the sheer number of pyramid schemes available as tabs in the main page screams scam

virasog

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 04, 2022, 09:45:57 PM

There are people in social media that have warned to be cautious with platforms that offer high APY and those platforms that have laid off employees from jobs in their companies.

Kraken, Coinbase, Crypto.com and Bybit did the biggest layoffs for exchanges this year according to the data in this spreadsheet which was created by Wublockchain.

This is nothing to do with the cryptocurrencies and i will not say that crypto is responsible for this layoff of employees from the companies. We are in a global recession and many companies (both crypto related and non-crypto) are reducing their expenses and making sure that there is no extra manpower.

I think this trend will continue throughout the global recession. We may see more such layoff news in near future from different
companies.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 24, 2023, 09:16:08 PM

I have also wondered about this actually. It somehow amuses me. I can remember many years ago that the exchanges to be avoided like the plague are the likes of YoBit and HitBTC. Their brands are almost openly equated with scam. But look how they've survived all the things that caused great exchanges and other too-big-to-fail platforms to lay off employees and even file bankruptcies. It's funny how it seems the last laugh is theirs.

Because YoBit is an outright scam. They don't need to worry about bank runs or anything like that, because they are quite happy to just shut down withdrawals and out right steal the coins of their users. Not to mention that the majority of shitcoins you can trade on YoBit don't actually have a blockchain at all and are created by YoBit only to separate idiots from their bitcoin. It doesn't matter if someone wants to withdraw 10 trillion MadeUpYoBitCoinNumber14, since YoBit can just create that out of thin air whenever they need.

The most surprising thing here is how they manage to continue to attract a steady stream of newbies and idiots to keep them running, even during a bear market. Although their outgoings will be very minimal since they don't need to pay any support staff or indeed process any withdrawals.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 23, 2023, 09:06:19 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 22, 2023, 09:35:41 PM

Is there a bigger chance than expected that it will be one of the next exchanges to bite the dust or is it still reasonably safe if compared to other exchanges that might bite the dust?

Go back a year and everyone though Celsius, Voyager, FTX were some of the most well regulated and least risky exchanges. And look at where we are now.

Hehe correct! It would be much safer to assume that Binance is in more danger than expected of insolvency after the outflows and thd mass liquidations that occured in the exchange if you describe it that way. BUSD is also not collaterized 100% during certain times.

In any case, I also remember creating the thread asking if FTX would bite the dust and many of us assumed that it was not in trouble, almost making it a silly question. We should certainly not make another similar error again.

Darker45

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Quote from: Elpeor00 on January 23, 2023, 06:28:01 PM

Actually, I'm wondering about how the notoriously scammy, shittier platforms endure the bear seasons while the more professional and (over?) hyped ones fall as flies, is almost funny

I have also wondered about this actually. It somehow amuses me. I can remember many years ago that the exchanges to be avoided like the plague are the likes of YoBit and HitBTC. Their brands are almost openly equated with scam. But look how they've survived all the things that caused great exchanges and other too-big-to-fail platforms to lay off employees and even file bankruptcies. It's funny how it seems the last laugh is theirs.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Elpeor00 on January 23, 2023, 06:28:01 PM

Actually, I'm wondering about how the notoriously scammy, shittier platforms endure the bear seasons while the more professional and (over?) hyped ones fall as flies, is almost funny

Well, there have been plenty of smaller exchanges which have gone bankrupt or exit scammed over the last few months and years as well, they just don't make the news nearly as much as when an exchange like FTX does it. But every exchange out there, regardless of size or regulations, is just one bank run away from declaring insolvency and taking all deposits with them. And as we've seen repeatedly over the last few months, when that happens regular uses are unlikely to get back a single satoshi of their money.

Elpeor00

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THE WORST EVER

Actually, I'm wondering about how the notoriously scammy, shittier platforms endure the bear seasons while the more professional and (over?) hyped ones fall as flies, is almost funny

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 23, 2023, 09:06:19 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 22, 2023, 09:35:41 PM

Is there a bigger chance than expected that it will be one of the next exchanges to bite the dust or is it still reasonably safe if compared to other exchanges that might bite the dust?

I am of the opinion that all exchanges are equally risky. We all have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes at any exchange until it is too late and they are filing their bankruptcy documents showing just how negative their balance books are and just how much in debt they are. Go back a year and everyone though Celsius, Voyager, FTX were some of the most well regulated and least risky exchanges. And look at where we are now

But seriously, as long as Bitcoin and altcoins are regulated as securities and no currency, the fully regulated exchanges are the risky ones in a bear market. They are compelled to treat the price's downs as capital loses, when in a perfect world the exchange earn its money by traded volume ( higher in both bull and bear markets than in stable ones)

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 22, 2023, 09:35:41 PM

Is there a bigger chance than expected that it will be one of the next exchanges to bite the dust or is it still reasonably safe if compared to other exchanges that might bite the dust?

I am of the opinion that all exchanges are equally risky. We all have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes at any exchange until it is too late and they are filing their bankruptcy documents showing just how negative their balance books are and just how much in debt they are. Go back a year and everyone though Celsius, Voyager, FTX were some of the most well regulated and least risky exchanges. And look at where we are now.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 22, 2023, 09:35:41 PM

I speculvate on October when Sam Bankrupt-Fried's trial begins, everyone should begin aoiding Binance because CZ will be one of the people who will be blamed for market manipulation on FTT that triggered the collapse of FTX. A crackdown might be ordered on CZ and Binance.

If the authorities do enforce some kind of sanctions on Binance, they will be put in place without warning and will be enforced before anyone has a chance to react. Waiting to hear news of such sanctions before you withdraw your coins leaves you at risk. Withdraw now.

Woodie

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 04, 2022, 09:45:57 PM

There are people in social media that have warned to be cautious with platforms that offer high APY and those platforms that have laid off employees from jobs in their companies.

Kraken, Coinbase, Crypto.com and Bybit did the biggest layoffs for exchanges this year according to the data in this spreadsheet which was created by Wublockchain.

Reason is based on APY Huh

I honestly think this is a bais opinion because layoffs are not synonymous to crypto companies at the moment, other top known companies IRL such as Twitter, Alphabet, Amazon, Google list goes on have laid off several of its employees citing reasons from improved technology such as AI introduction, or simply cutting costs of running these companies against huge wage bills.

For our crypto companies it's likely that this happened because crypto value dropped and could not support the wage bill unless a bullish miracle happens to save the employees jobs.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 21, 2023, 07:41:07 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 18, 2023, 10:40:51 PM

Also, should the community be more concerned on Binance or is it still considered reasonably safe from being the next exchange to bite the dust?

No exchange is safe. We are seeing DCG's subsidiaries starting to have major problems. Everyone knows about the problems with Grayscale over the last year or so, and now Genesis are reportedly preparing to file for bankruptcy. They are also selling off CoinDesk. DCG have tens of billions of assets under management. If they are not too big to fail, then neither is Binance or Coinbase or any other exchange.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 18, 2023, 10:40:51 PM

Approximately two-thirds of Bitzlato’s top receiving and sending counterparties are associated with darknet markets or scams. For example, Bitzlato’s top three receiving counterparties, by total amount of BTC received between May 2018 and September 2022 were: (1) Binance, a VASP; (2) the Russia-connected darknet market Hydra; and (3) the alleged Russia-based Ponzi scheme “TheFiniko.”

So how long before Binance start to get investigate for money laundering?

I am not arguing that Binance is 100% safe. I am asking how concerned should we be on Binance. Is there a bigger chance than expected that it will be one of the next exchanges to bite the dust or is it still reasonably safe if compared to other exchanges that might bite the dust?

I speculate on October when Sam Bankrupt-Fried's trial begins, everyone should begin avoiding Binance because CZ will be one of the people who will be blamed for market manipulation on FTT that triggered the collapse of FTX. A crackdown might be ordered on CZ and Binance.

Z-tight

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 18, 2023, 10:40:51 PM

Also, should the community be more concerned on Binance or is it still considered reasonably safe from being the next exchange to bite the dust?

I know that many people have failed to understand how risky exchanges are, that is why they think some are reasonably safe to keep their money, the best decision for people that use centralized exchanges in the crypto market today is for them to take every exchange as being unsafe and consider that they can collapse at anytime, if people do that, then they would only trade on these exchanges and withdraw their money into self custody immediately, and if they are day traders, they would only leave a small amount in the exchange for that purpose.

But i don't think it helps anybody if we continue to debate which exchange is reasonably safe and incapable of biting the dust, i would never recommend any exchange under that category, so people do not take my advice and lose money later on.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 18, 2023, 10:40:51 PM

Also, should the community be more concerned on Binance or is it still considered reasonably safe from being the next exchange to bite the dust?

No exchange is safe. We are seeing DCG's subsidiaries starting to have major problems. Everyone knows about the problems with Grayscale over the last year or so, and now Genesis are reportedly preparing to file for bankruptcy. They are also selling off CoinDesk. DCG have tens of billions of assets under management. If they are not too big to fail, then neither is Binance or Coinbase or any other exchange.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 18, 2023, 10:40:51 PM

Approximately two-thirds of Bitzlato’s top receiving and sending counterparties are associated with darknet markets or scams. For example, Bitzlato’s top three receiving counterparties, by total amount of BTC received between May 2018 and September 2022 were: (1) Binance, a VASP; (2) the Russia-connected darknet market Hydra; and (3) the alleged Russia-based Ponzi scheme “TheFiniko.”

So how long before Binance start to get investigate for money laundering?

bbc.reporter

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@o_e_l_e_o. I am talking about whale traders, not the whales who belong to the banking insitution category. Institutions want their own trading desk with their own orderbook or a trading desk of another institution that they trust.

Also, should the community be more concerned on Binance or is it still considered reasonably safe from being the next exchange to bite the dust?

Mid-day Wednesday, federal prosecutors proudly announced criminal charges against Bitzlato, a Hong Kong-based cryptocurrency exchange. The exchange’s founder, Russian national Anatoly Legkodymov, apparently known by the nickname “Gandalf,” was arrested last night in Miami.

Source https://decrypt.co/119494/crypto-panics-then-jeers-at-doj-announcement-of-major-action-against-tiny-chinese-exchange-bitzlato

This is where the news on Bitzlato becomes more concerning for Binance.

Approximately two-thirds of Bitzlato’s top receiving and sending counterparties are associated with darknet markets or scams. For example, Bitzlato’s top three receiving counterparties, by total amount of BTC received between May 2018 and September 2022 were: (1) Binance, a VASP; (2) the Russia-connected darknet market Hydra; and (3) the alleged Russia-based Ponzi scheme “TheFiniko.”

Source https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/Order_Bitzlato_FINAL%20508.pdf

The big outflows, the mass liquidations, the undercollateralization on BUSD and presently this news on Bitzlato should make the community more concerned, I reckon.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 15, 2023, 08:34:38 PM

Whales use centralized exchanges because the markets in them have more liquidity. Give me an example of a decentralized exchange where a trader who trades millions of dollars per trade can buy or sell everyday without moving the market.

If someone is making trades of that size, then they aren't going to Coinbase and just dropping an order for 500 BTC on their order books. They will be trading OTC, and will have much more in the way of legal protections and guarantees than the 99.9% of regular centralized exchange users.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 15, 2023, 08:34:38 PM

This is a reason why there is an argument that ordinary people in the community should try Defi. We can trade in Defi without giving up the custody of our coins.

I think the vast majority of people should use decentralized peer to peer exchanges, in order to benefit from the security and privacy they provide, and not lose their coins in the next centralized exchange which goes bankrupt. But I would never recommend a project which styles itself as "DeFi". As with every other fad in this space, the vast majority of DeFi projects are not decentralized in the slightest, and many of them turn out to be outright scams.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Lucius on January 14, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 14, 2023, 07:20:15 AM

~snip~
So as always, get your coins in to your own wallets. Who in their right mind is still using centralized exchanges at this point!?

Apparently millions of those who live in the belief that CEX are crypto banks and that there is no reason not to trust them. Even when the famous CZ is included in the whole story with the claim that 99% of users will sooner or later lose everything if they use non-custodial wallets, I'm not at all surprised that almost nothing has changed after FTX.

After all, even some forum members who have access to information see nothing wrong in continuing to believe in various crypto messiahs who promise them that they will never let them down.

Whales use centralized exchanges because the markets in them have more liquidity. Give me an example of a decentralized exchange where a trader who trades millions of dollars per trade can buy or sell everyday without moving the market.

In any case, for ordinary people in the cryptospace similar to many of us, I agree. This is a reason why there is an argument that ordinary people in the community should try Defi. We can trade in Defi without giving up the custody of our coins.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Lucius on January 14, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Apparently millions of those who live in the belief that CEX are crypto banks and that there is no reason not to trust them.

Because as we all know, fiat banks are the epitome of trustworthiness. Roll Eyes

Certainly no insider trading, tax evasion, money laundering, market manipulation, dodgy loans, money printing, etc., etc. Roll Eyes

Quote from: Z-tight on January 14, 2023, 04:48:07 PM

It has happened with many centralized exchanges and services, it happened with ftx, and it can happen with another centralized service soon

Going bank further than FTX, the thing which kicked off this run of insolvent exchanges was Three Arrows Capital being liquidated, which then led to Voyager and Celsius, which then spread to others, and so on. And it doesn't even have to be another exchange. Some critical bug in an altcoin which results in the price tanking could be more than enough to bankrupt an exchange holding a large amount of that altcoin.

Even something completely unrelated to your chosen exchange can result in you losing all your coins. Doesn't matter the exchange - if your coins are not in your own wallet, they are not safe.

Z-tight

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 14, 2023, 07:20:15 AM

And as I understand it, there are many other centralized exchanges which use Silvergate, so if they do collapse then again we could easily see a large domino effect spread to other exchanges.

That is another factor to consider for people who think the centralized exchange they store their money in is safe and wouldn't collapse, there are many external factors that can cause an exchange to collapse, which includes and not limited to the collapse of another different exchange or service, which leaves many centralized services connected to it exposed and might lead to them going bankrupt too.

It has happened with many centralized exchanges and services, it happened with ftx, and it can happen with another centralized service soon, which may affect even the 'biggest' exchanges that people think is safe for them to keep their money in.

Lucius

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 14, 2023, 07:20:15 AM

~snip~
So as always, get your coins in to your own wallets. Who in their right mind is still using centralized exchanges at this point!?

Apparently millions of those who live in the belief that CEX are crypto banks and that there is no reason not to trust them. Even when the famous CZ is included in the whole story with the claim that 99% of users will sooner or later lose everything if they use non-custodial wallets, I'm not at all surprised that almost nothing has changed after FTX.

After all, even some forum members who have access to information see nothing wrong in continuing to believe in various crypto messiahs who promise them that they will never let them down.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 11, 2023, 11:26:52 PM

Hehehe, however, it appears that they will not be one of the next platforms to bite the dust. Silvergate bank recently might have received a bail out of $4.3 billion from the Federal Home Loan bank of San Francisco. This occured before the news article from Yahoo Finance.

Oh cool. Tax dollars being used to bail out scammy centralized exchanges which are busy gambling/losing all their customers' deposits.

A bail out also doesn't mean they are safe. Plenty of large companies have received bail outs and still gone under. BlockFi even received a bail out only weeks prior to their collapse (from FTX, no less). And as I understand it, there are many other centralized exchanges which use Silvergate, so if they do collapse then again we could easily see a large domino effect spread to other exchanges.

So as always, get your coins in to your own wallets. Who in their right mind is still using centralized exchanges at this point!?

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 09, 2023, 07:18:00 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 08, 2023, 08:46:25 PM

Silvergate Capital Corp. shares plunged after the bank said the crypto industry’s meltdown triggered a run on deposits, prompting the company to sell assets at a steep loss and fire 40% of its staff.

Customers withdrew about $8.1 billion of digital-asset deposits from the bank during the fourth quarter, which forced it to sell securities and related derivatives at a loss of $718 million, according to a statement Thursday.

Huh. And here I though one bitcoin = one bitcoin. But it turns out if a customer deposits one bitcoin, the price of bitcoin in fiat falls, and they then try to withdraw that one bitcoin, suddenly that one bitcoin isn't worth one bitcoin anymore and the exchange needs to sell a bunch of other assets to let that one bitcoin be worth one bitcoin again? Isn't that weird! Roll Eyes

In other words, they were doing what every other insolvent exchange over the past few months has been doing, and were running a fractional reserve system while using customers' deposits to gamble on various investments for their own profit, loan out to questionable third parties for their own profit, or maybe even just spend outright like FTX were doing.

Hehehe, however, it appears that they will not be one of the next platforms to bite the dust. Silvergate bank recently might have received a bail out of $4.3 billion from the Federal Home Loan bank of San Francisco. This occured before the news article from Yahoo Finance.

It appears everyone is late on this update. However, Silvergate bank might still be a takeover target especially because of the $4.3 billion that they are presently holding hehehehe.

At December 31, 2022, the Company held $4.3 billion of short-term Federal Home Loan Bank advances.

Source https://ir.silvergate.com/news/news-details/2023/Silvergate-Announces-Select-Preliminary-Fourth-Quarter-2022-Financial-Metrics-and-Provides-Business-Update/default.aspx

Topic: More platforms will bite the dust? (Read 601 times)