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GreenStox

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Quote from: r0ach on March 21, 2015, 03:02:07 PM

There's always that lawsuit to use as precedent, when some guy got in a car accident in the parking lot of one of the banks and tried to sue the government. The government then said, can't sue us because it's not ours.

C`mon guys really, do you think it matters if its privately owned or national? It doesnt, the mere existence of a central bank is the source of all economic problems. Furthermore if it were public it would be even more susceptible to corruption than now is.

See a private central bank only runs a global ponzi scheme. A national central bank would run the global ponzi scheme + the bureocrats would steal everything, so its much better if its private, atleast they can run their nice global debt ponzi scheme efficiently, isn't that lovely

r0ach

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Quote from: Lethn on March 20, 2015, 01:46:34 AM

That's just a blatantly contradictory statement, you just said that commercial banks own the federal reserve, that means it isn't 'wholly' conrolled by the US government, pick one or the other, anyway, we here all know the federal reserve is a private bank, as are most central banks, no matter how much people try to lie otherwise.

There's always that lawsuit to use as precedent, when some guy got in a car accident in the parking lot of one of the banks and tried to sue the government. The government then said, can't sue us because it's not ours.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: dinofelis on March 20, 2015, 11:32:14 PM

Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:30:20 PM

Sweden is seen like a role-model in terms of social welfare, health and education in the whole of southern Europe. Literally, I've heard the Scandinavian countries mentioned as something to follow in the parliament.

It can only work because of Scandinavian mentality. These people are terribly strict and almost incorruptible. The level of social control is very high. Maybe it is due to the severe nature over there, but Swedish (and Scandinavians in general) are like robots that obey to the rules. To give you an example:
I took a bus there, and the machine to discount a fare from your electronic multi-pass didn't work. So the driver told me (and others) to "count two fares the next day if I took a bus again". The next day, I saw many people actually DO that. It was a different driver, btw. He didn't know. So people told him that they wanted to pay twice because they had gotten a free ride the day before !

Go and try such a thing in Italy

I've experienced that. Boring people, there's more fun living in Italy. I guess somehow many Scandinavians are bored with their country too. My last time in Oslo, my flight out was on a Friday afternoon, and there were huge lines at the airport. One guy working there told me it was like that every Friday, thousands of people travel somewhere South every week-end.

deisik

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Quote from: dinofelis on March 20, 2015, 11:32:14 PM

Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:30:20 PM

Sweden is seen like a role-model in terms of social welfare, health and education in the whole of southern Europe. Literally, I've heard the Scandinavian countries mentioned as something to follow in the parliament.

It can only work because of Scandinavian mentality. These people are terribly strict and almost incorruptible. The level of social control is very high. Maybe it is due to the severe nature over there, but Swedish (and Scandinavians in general) are like robots that obey to the rules. To give you an example:
I took a bus there, and the machine to discount a fare from your electronic multi-pass didn't work. So the driver told me (and others) to "count two fares the next day if I took a bus again". The next day, I saw many people actually DO that. It was a different driver, btw. He didn't know. So people told him that they wanted to pay twice because they had gotten a free ride the day before !

Go and try such a thing in Italy

Nature is not that severe in Scandinavia as you most certainly think (since these countries are in the North and lie close to the Arctic zone, most of which is covered with ice and snow in winter). However, the warm Gulf Stream and winds which accompany it flow along the Norwegian coast, so that almost all of Norway (even its Northern parts) remains free of ice and snow throughout the year...

Swedes are picking strawberry in May

dinofelis

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Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:30:20 PM

Sweden is seen like a role-model in terms of social welfare, health and education in the whole of southern Europe. Literally, I've heard the Scandinavian countries mentioned as something to follow in the parliament.

It can only work because of Scandinavian mentality. These people are terribly strict and almost incorruptible. The level of social control is very high. Maybe it is due to the severe nature over there, but Swedish (and Scandinavians in general) are like robots that obey to the rules. To give you an example:
I took a bus there, and the machine to discount a fare from your electronic multi-pass didn't work. So the driver told me (and others) to "count two fares the next day if I took a bus again". The next day, I saw many people actually DO that. It was a different driver, btw. He didn't know. So people told him that they wanted to pay twice because they had gotten a free ride the day before !

Go and try such a thing in Italy

nicked

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When you have high taxes and great welfare and services, you will start to have higher immigration, then you'll need more government to process the extra people. Pretty soon you get a whole lot of people getting something for nothing, and a whole lot of government handing it out to them, and nobody building the economy. Government doesn't produce anything, it can only spend. Who's going to pay for it all?

podyx

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What exactly does this mean?

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 03:50:32 PM

According to the Banking Act as of 1935, the president of the US appoints the seven members of the Board of Governors (the main governing body of the Federal Reserve). The nominees should then be confirmed by the Senate. I don't know for sure whether the POTUS and the Senate members are appointed by private bankers...

Government know nothing about banking (otherwise they would have already created their own money and never need to borrow from FED), so they can only appoint some bankers to do the job, these regional reserve bankers of course are regarded as the expert in the banking area. This is similar to: When you are trying to appoint the CEO of microsoft, no candidate is better than Bill Gates, even Senate will agree, because none of the politicians have the slightest idea about how windows works

The terrible truth is, none of the politicians understand how today's monetary system works, they can only believe what bankers told them, and they only care about borrowing a little bit more from banks, that's more important for them

deisik

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Quote from: Lethn on March 20, 2015, 01:46:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: maku on March 18, 2015, 05:34:56 PM

In fact Swedish Central Bank is not owned by the Swedish Government but is privately owned, just like the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States.
The only solution is free markets; not central banks or corrupted capitalism. And Bitcoin may be the key here.

The Federal Reserve token funded by member banks and commercial banks, neither of which have voting stock. It is wholly controlled by the US government.

BTC's total price instability would be hellish compared to the largest conventional currencies.

That's just a blatantly contradictory statement, you just said that commercial banks own the federal reserve, that means it isn't 'wholly' conrolled by the US government, pick one or the other, anyway, we here all know the federal reserve is a private bank, as are most central banks, no matter how much people try to lie otherwise.

According to the Banking Act as of 1935, the president of the US appoints the seven members of the Board of Governors (the main governing body of the Federal Reserve). The nominees should then be confirmed by the Senate. I don't know for sure whether the POTUS and the Senate members are appointed by private bankers...

alani123

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Quote

The Riksbank cut its repo rate by 0.15 percentage points to -0.25 percent and said it was buying government bonds worth 30 billion kronor ($3.4 billion, 3.2 billion euros) to prevent an appreciating krona from hindering an uptick in inflation.

This is utter madness... Yet things like this get from minimal to no coverage from the major media outlets.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: NUFCrichard on March 20, 2015, 03:09:35 AM

Quote from: countryfree on March 19, 2015, 06:40:34 PM

There is an immigration problem in Sweden, it's about young entrepreneurs who are moving abroad of this communist country because of the tax and regulatory burden. The country is a terrible failure for the young who would not dare do anything outside of the umbrella of the nanny state. So the few braves are leaving and I guess that someday there will be only civil servants left in Sweden.

Deflation will just move the country quicker to a standstill.

I am no socialist, but I think it is better that taxes are high and services are good, than the middle road that most countries go, middle taxes, crappy services
The other option of having very low taxes to allow the rich to screw over the masses, i.e. the American system, also doesn't really appeal to me.

If they do have a big immigration problem, it will be because it is doing so well as a country. I can imagine a lack of entrepreneurialism being caused by the system, but when I have been there it always seems pretty forward think, especially in comparison with Germany.

You nailed it. The country's doing fine, but individuals aren't. I like it better the other way around.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: manselr on March 19, 2015, 06:30:58 PM

Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM

Sweden can't go on the way they are now forever. I've heard they are giving ridiculous amounts of welfare over there. If they did this only for swedish born people it's maybe ok if they can afford it, but all that immigration will make the system collapse guaranteed.

Actually just saw a thread here in Bitcointalk.org about a swedish guy that says he's getting 1.000 USD by "doing nothing". Apprently he got diagnosed with aspergers syndrome or autism, and they give him 1.000 USD... thats amazing. The guy doesn't even seem to be that different from your typical nerdy/geek/introvert guy. In any other country he wouldn't get anything.

I understand how a country like Norway can get away with stuff like that because they are oil rich, but not sweden afaik.

GreenStox

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Guys you are in a false paradigm.

It doesnt matter if the central bank is privately owned, or if its national. It's the same deal.

In both cases it's owned by a tyrranical money hungry and power hungry coalition.

The only way the central bank can become benevolent is if it ceases to exist, and let the market determined interest rates decide the interest rate, while letting each bank print it's own money, and let the market decide which currency to use.

Pure smithian capitalism of free market is the solution, not some corporative-fascist powerhungry group.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: countryfree on March 19, 2015, 06:40:34 PM

There is an immigration problem in Sweden, it's about young entrepreneurs who are moving abroad of this communist country because of the tax and regulatory burden. The country is a terrible failure for the young who would not dare do anything outside of the umbrella of the nanny state. So the few braves are leaving and I guess that someday there will be only civil servants left in Sweden.

Deflation will just move the country quicker to a standstill.

I am no socialist, but I think it is better that taxes are high and services are good, than the middle road that most countries go, middle taxes, crappy services
The other option of having very low taxes to allow the rich to screw over the masses, i.e. the American system, also doesn't really appeal to me.

If they do have a big immigration problem, it will be because it is doing so well as a country. I can imagine a lack of entrepreneurialism being caused by the system, but when I have been there it always seems pretty forward think, especially in comparison with Germany.

Lethn

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: maku on March 18, 2015, 05:34:56 PM

In fact Swedish Central Bank is not owned by the Swedish Government but is privately owned, just like the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States.
The only solution is free markets; not central banks or corrupted capitalism. And Bitcoin may be the key here.

The Federal Reserve token funded by member banks and commercial banks, neither of which have voting stock. It is wholly controlled by the US government.

BTC's total price instability would be hellish compared to the largest conventional currencies.

That's just a blatantly contradictory statement, you just said that commercial banks own the federal reserve, that means it isn't 'wholly' conrolled by the US government, pick one or the other, anyway, we here all know the federal reserve is a private bank, as are most central banks, no matter how much people try to lie otherwise.

H.W.Z

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: maku on March 18, 2015, 05:34:56 PM

In fact Swedish Central Bank is not owned by the Swedish Government but is privately owned, just like the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States.
The only solution is free markets; not central banks or corrupted capitalism. And Bitcoin may be the key here.

The Federal Reserve token funded by member banks and commercial banks, neither of which have voting stock. It is wholly controlled by the US government.

BTC's total price instability would be hellish compared to the largest conventional currencies.

yes, bitcoin still has many issues to be fixed. But bitcoin's decentralized feature is a great supplement to the fiat currency. It could exist side by side with fiat currency!

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

There is an immigration problem in Sweden, it's about young entrepreneurs who are moving abroad of this communist country because of the tax and regulatory burden. The country is a terrible failure for the young who would not dare do anything outside of the umbrella of the nanny state. So the few braves are leaving and I guess that someday there will be only civil servants left in Sweden.

Deflation will just move the country quicker to a standstill.

manselr

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM

Sweden can't go on the way they are now forever. I've heard they are giving ridiculous amounts of welfare over there. If they did this only for swedish born people it's maybe ok if they can afford it, but all that immigration will make the system collapse guaranteed.

Actually just saw a thread here in Bitcointalk.org about a swedish guy that says he's getting 1.000 USD by "doing nothing". Apprently he got diagnosed with aspergers syndrome or autism, and they give him 1.000 USD... thats amazing. The guy doesn't even seem to be that different from your typical nerdy/geek/introvert guy. In any other country he wouldn't get anything.

okthen

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on March 19, 2015, 02:35:23 PM

Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM

Sweden can't go on the way they are now forever. I've heard they are giving ridiculous amounts of welfare over there. If they did this only for swedish born people it's maybe ok if they can afford it, but all that immigration will make the system collapse guaranteed.

I don't think that they have problems due to their social security, that is fairly normal in Scandinavia, they pay high taxes and have lots of services, it's a very successful system there. Immigration doesn't seem to be much of a problem either.

In this case their problem is that they are doing so much better than the eurozone, so need to purposely mess up their currency so that it doesn't massively appreciate against the main trading partners, thus they punish people for buying Krona.

Sweden is seen like a role-model in terms of social welfare, health and education in the whole of southern Europe. Literally, I've heard the Scandinavian countries mentioned as something to follow in the parliament.
It would be ironic to see them go to hell for it, though I don't think it's going to happen.
Hope the deviation doesn't last long and they know what they're doing.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM

Sweden can't go on the way they are now forever. I've heard they are giving ridiculous amounts of welfare over there. If they did this only for swedish born people it's maybe ok if they can afford it, but all that immigration will make the system collapse guaranteed.

I don't think that they have problems due to their social security, that is fairly normal in Scandinavia, they pay high taxes and have lots of services, it's a very successful system there. Immigration doesn't seem to be much of a problem either.

In this case their problem is that they are doing so much better than the eurozone, so need to purposely mess up their currency so that it doesn't massively appreciate against the main trading partners, thus they punish people for buying Krona.

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