1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy?

Jaryu

member

Activity: 90

Merit: 10

Quote from: tidus_13 on April 24, 2012, 05:40:38 PM

Quote from: Raize on April 05, 2012, 08:47:46 PM

Quote from: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 06:47:48 PM

The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths

Icarus miner: (discontinued)
380 megahash/second
20 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594

Did I do my "maths" right?

Icarus is avaible for bulk of 30 at 469$ each one

last I checked the last bulk order was over and done a while back on the icarus. I asked him to post a teaser of the Lancelot specs but he said we had to wait a little while longer.

tidus_13

full member

Activity: 290

Merit: 100

Quote from: Raize on April 05, 2012, 08:47:46 PM

Quote from: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 06:47:48 PM

The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths

Icarus miner: (discontinued)
380 megahash/second
20 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594

Did I do my "maths" right?

Icarus is avaible for bulk of 30 at 469$ each one

MXRider

sr. member

Activity: 466

Merit: 250

Quote from: bulanula on April 23, 2012, 03:32:31 PM

Quote from: MXRider on April 23, 2012, 08:10:57 AM

Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?

For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid.

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

Why is ordering a single right now stupid ? You think they are going to run away with the $$$ after they gained some reputation by selling the first batches at a loss Huh

That is highly unlikely IMHO. $20K is nothing for a business like BFL. I think they have a chance of making more money in the long run being legit than running now with your pocket change !

I'm not afraid to be scammed although they could update their website more often and give some real details about their company. In Europe companies has to put their business license number on their website. Let's forget all the fishiness and focus on the FPGA.

I can mine the price difference in four months with ZTEX board so I don't see why anyone would want to buy a single. This is assuming one would participate in a bulk order. $20k is too much for me. I don't want to wait four months. I will order some Singles/MiniRig from BFL when the lead times are better and true. Right now it's not a good option, at least not for me.

BR0KK

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

For me it's defenetly Ztex 1.15y boards.... The two years Warranty, the good support by them and the availability is what I like to pay for.

Someday when I have a few BTC left I comsider buying one of those BFL Singles, just to get hands on Wink

bulanula

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: MXRider on April 23, 2012, 08:10:57 AM

Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?

For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid.

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

Why is ordering a single right now stupid ? You think they are going to run away with the $$$ after they gained some reputation by selling the first batches at a loss Huh

That is highly unlikely IMHO. $20K is nothing for a business like BFL. I think they have a chance of making more money in the long run being legit than running now with your pocket change !

Raize

donator

Activity: 1419

Merit: 1015

Quote from: MXRider on April 23, 2012, 08:10:57 AM

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

While I don't disagree with your logic, here's the problem the rest of us have given your logic. Why even mine when we can just buy coin and when the difficulty increases and more and more current GPU miners don't get as much coin the price rises to compensate?

I mean, we've seen the price of BTC hit a low in November/December of last year around $2, burst to $7, then now fall back down to $4 range and slowly but very gradually increase along with the difficulty. Does anyone really think that someone who owns hundreds of thousands of BTC is looking at the gradual increase and thinking it'd be a good idea to sell if they don't need it?

I think we're seeing the "hoarder effect", that is, there are always going to be some miners that refuse to sell any of their mined coin, even to recoup their investments.

MXRider

sr. member

Activity: 466

Merit: 250

Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?

For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid.

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

Cablez

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...

Quote from: mrb on April 21, 2012, 01:37:45 AM

Quote from: nedbert9 on April 19, 2012, 01:04:47 PM

Quote from: newMeat1 on April 19, 2012, 11:13:53 AM

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.
Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

BFL's chip was identified. It is a Stratix III EP3SL200 or EP3SE260: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.720365

Was this ever confirmed from another person working with Stratix chips? I am not saying he's wrong but I was hoping there would have been a followup wave from other engineers confirming or denying such.
I myself can only take this at face value. Undecided

mrb

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1028

Quote from: nedbert9 on April 19, 2012, 01:04:47 PM

Quote from: newMeat1 on April 19, 2012, 11:13:53 AM

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.
Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

BFL's chip was identified. It is a Stratix III EP3SL200 or EP3SE260: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.720365

Inspector 2211

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

I now think the BFL chip is either:
- A custom-designed "super" FPGA, whose functional units have a bigger granularity than standard Xilinx/Altera FPGAs.
Instead of "1 bit adder" think "8 bit adder".
or
- An array processor, for instance 32x32 (just making this up) 32-bit mini-CPUs.

According to their own words, they stumbled into Bitcoin mining, their original idea was supercomputing / cryptography applications.

In other words, I think they built an ASIC first and then stumbled into Bitcoin mining as their first volume application.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: nedbert9 on April 19, 2012, 01:04:47 PM

Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

Unlikely. I am pretty certain of the chip they are using and without special pricing you are looking at $1400 for a pair of them. Obviously BFL found a sweet deal and congrats to them but simply knowing the chip doesn't help you a whole lot.

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: nedbert9 on April 19, 2012, 01:04:47 PM

Quote from: newMeat1 on April 19, 2012, 11:13:53 AM

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.

Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

Maybe it isn't. They have hinted at such.

nedbert9

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Inactive

Quote from: newMeat1 on April 19, 2012, 11:13:53 AM

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.

Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

newMeat1

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Raize

donator

Activity: 1419

Merit: 1015

Quote from: fizzisist on April 10, 2012, 04:40:51 AM

Actually, the X6500 is $565 without heatsinks, and $580 with heatsinks, which include fans.

The point of selling the X6500 as a bare bones unit is to make it as flexible as possible for people that want to figure out their own cooling and powering solution. This is especially important when buying multiple boards. Here's my own math, for two theoretical customers:

Single board customer:

X6500 with heatsinks (ordered from Cablesaurus.com):
$580 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping = $593.40

AC adapter:
taken from an old router = $0

USB cable:
who doesn't have millions of these? = $0

Total = $593.40

Multi-board customer:

10x X6500 with heatsinks (ordered directly from FPGA Mining LLC):
$550 x10 + $60 shipping = $5540

380W ATX PSU:
$45 + $4 shipping = $49

10-port USB hub:
$11 + $3 shipping = $14

10x USB cables:
$2.32 x10 = $23

Total = $5626 or $562.60 per board

Faire enough. I just didn't like the "holier than thou" attitude he had regarding them. You're right, the 6500 is an option for people that may want to look into powering via a power supply and may have their own usb cables/hub around for doing what they need.

To each their own, for sure. We definitely have a multitude of options available to us, and more all the time it looks like!

fizzisist

hero member

Activity: 720

Merit: 528

Quote from: Raize on April 05, 2012, 08:47:46 PM

Quote from: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 06:47:48 PM

The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths

Bitforce single:
830 megahash/second
80 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $599 + $34 shipping = $633

Icarus miner: (discontinued)
380 megahash/second
20 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594

x6500:
400 megahash/second
17.2 watt
No Heatsink/No Fan
Comes with no Power adapter or USB cable
Price: $550 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping + $17.95 AC Adapter + $8.95 USB cable + ($20 Two Zalman FPGA heatsinks + $4.54 shipping) + ($2.49 90mm case fan + $6.29 shipping) = $623.62

Sources:
http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-ZM-NBF47-Northbridge-Flower-Heatsink/dp/B000ZSBVK0
http://www.amazon.com/90mm-Case-3-Pin-Connector-Black/dp/B004OFXXX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333676747&sr=1-2

Did I do my "maths" right?

Actually, the X6500 is $565 without heatsinks, and $580 with heatsinks, which include fans.

The point of selling the X6500 as a bare bones unit is to make it as flexible as possible for people that want to figure out their own cooling and powering solution. This is especially important when buying multiple boards. Here's my own math, for two theoretical customers:

Single board customer:

X6500 with heatsinks (ordered from Cablesaurus.com):
$580 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping = $593.40

AC adapter:
taken from an old router = $0

USB cable:
who doesn't have millions of these? = $0

Total = $593.40

Multi-board customer:

10x X6500 with heatsinks (ordered directly from FPGA Mining LLC):
$550 x10 + $60 shipping = $5540

380W ATX PSU:
$45 + $4 shipping = $49

10-port USB hub:
$11 + $3 shipping = $14

10x USB cables:
$2.32 x10 = $23

Total = $5626 or $562.60 per board

film2240

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

Freelance videographer

Maybe look at the Bitforce FPGA (the $599 model as it's cheap,gives more than 820+Mhash/s and only uses 80W power) if you have the budget for it (like I hope to)

bitlane

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

I heart thebaron

Quote from: cablepair on April 07, 2012, 10:51:58 PM

I have no opinion on either side of this argument.

But one fact is 100% clear to me.

Butterfly Labs Business Plan:

Sell Units for what Appears to be an amazing Price
Put a 4-5 week Shipping Time on Said Unit
Extend that 4-6 week shipping time to 6-12 week Shipping time and Mine with Said Unit during the Duration of the Wait Period
Now Said Unit Provides Amazing Profits (and what appears to be an amazing low price to buyer)
____________________

cash in
I am awaiting for BFL singles myself and Like and Appreciate their Company myself
but to say they are not mining on these units as part of their business / profitability plan
is just plain denial

Holly Sheep Shit !
I never even thought about that......
Single TX Block Mystery Miner identified ? (I sure wish I would have read that thread now)

Raize

donator

Activity: 1419

Merit: 1015

Quote from: copumpkin on April 05, 2012, 10:22:39 PM

Note however that watts / second is a unit of energy acceleration, which sounds terrifying!

Good point, fixed.

About the "maths" comment, I was mostly emphasizing that matthew didn't appear to be doing the math on his own and realize just how little stuff the x6500 came with that the average miner was going to have to purchase or supply. It is weird to see mathematics shortened in such a manner, though. Of course, this is coming from a silly American. Tongue

cablepair

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

I have no opinion on either side of this argument.

But one fact is 100% clear to me.

Butterfly Labs Business Plan:

Sell Units for what Appears to be an amazing Price

Put a 4-5 week Shipping Time on Said Unit

Extend that 4-6 week shipping time to 6-12 week Shipping time and Mine with Said Unit during the Duration of the Wait Period

Now Said Unit Provides Amazing Profits (and what appears to be an amazing low price to buyer)

____________________

cash in

I am awaiting for BFL singles myself and Like and Appreciate their Company myself

but to say they are not mining on these units as part of their business / profitability plan

is just plain denial

Topic: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? (Read 8707 times)