Topic: [100 Ghps] "Catch 22 removal" service for new pool operators (Read 3763 times)

No investors - I take it out of our cash flow, and I always say - if that blows, I am a HUGH seller of used graphics cards into the december market

But "a datacenter" does normally not work - I figured out I save with 16 machines more moeny in electricity than it costs me to rent the place Industrial power is a lot cheaper here than private. I get cost + double depreciation with 50% of the BTC sold at this price and I am limiting my risk ro around 30.000 EUR which is not that much money - will make a dent in my yearly profit, but not one that is not worth the risk.

Problem is for me - I run a company and make quite a lot of money. Runnign 3 servers just is not worth it. I HAVE to make at least 500 USD a day to make it worthwhile my time.

That's good for you. I also run a 20ghash cluster @ datacenter but have recently sold off some hardware due to unprofitability, down to 15gh

I think it's insanity to add more HW at a point in time during which your investment will likely never be fully recouped (unless gambling on massive future price hikes) but if you or your investors have the money then go for it

People like Vladimir bought their hardware long ago and have made profit for months, I can understand keeping them online,
adding 100ghash/s more capacity at this point seems nuts but you've made your calculations & predictions

I have. 390 square meters secured, contract signed monday. Place for 7 clusters od 12 racks of 16 computers each - more than I can cool and handle power wise with the current 1.5 megawatt power station right behind the hall Fenced and secured as it is part of a factory complex

Electrician comes monday

First 3 cards online in a test setup. 100 pci-e express raisers orderd and stuck in customs, another 100 with molex power splice and 100 dual power start cables pending final proposal from manufacturer (monday).

5 cards coming tuesday (and 3 go online then), together with the next 12 power supplies (2 Iahve) for the first 8 computers. Small stuf ready for toal of 3 computer, another 5 ordered tuesday.

33 cards coming august 2nd

Planning to have 3 half-racks online end of August - a total of 14 graphics cards Should be around 60 giga Cooling via blowing hot air out of the roof (which we open and install undistrial fans in - sucking up 18.000 cubic meters air per hour each)

Should I say that as long as this is profitable post depreciation we will add one half-rack per month This is btw at around a third the current income


Not sure thee is any serious money in that But the 1-5 Gigahash comment is correct. I wont ever understand why people go into pools that simply wont solve a block in a difficulty except being really lucky.

Have fun spending $50,000-$70,000 dollars just on the GPUs (and that's with mass discounts)... Not to mention power supplies, motherboards, electricity consumption, fortified fuses, processors, professional cooling, rent and guarding fees for massive racks

Tbh, renting his mining power at just some % over normal PPS rate is a bargain,
I don't see why people are so skeptical or against it

I'm usually very skeptical against all sorts of BTC ventures (and still am about buying 1ghps for £400 per month, to be honest),
but variance stabilization of a pool makes perfect business sense for both parties of the deal.

You'll make much more eventually as the pool owner when it gets going, if you stagnate at 1-5ghash you'll never grow and will likely die from just a few consequent unlucky blocks

Lucky you. I go the other way - put together 100 giga myself

Agreed I'm just waiting for my software to get perfect, then imma hire him on the spot to get the mining farm pool started

At the end it is a busines decision. IF I would like to go into a pool business, I would consider it.

hmm.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to just pay your initial miners out of your own pocket, pretending the pool had a higher hashrate?

Kudos to Vladimir for thinking up an innovative way to jump start a pool. It is creative.

Exactly. I'd join in half a heartbeat.

That was my thinking. Vladimir would basically be a shill.

I'm not trying to insult Vladimir, but his service make little sense. He is demanding special treatment (no fee PPS + 10% extra + paid for stales) just because he has a lot of hash rate. If a pool offered that to regular miners, everyone will be joining the pool in a heartbeat (who doesn't want 110% PPS?). one person pointed out this is more "stealthy" than just paying people to join, but do people really care that the pool owner paid a big miner to join his pool? people just care about low fees and low variance.

I would like to comment on "price is cheap" remark.

Please allow me to clarify. Price could be actually be very expensive. The thing is, I do not know it. I mentioned 10% as a starting price. It is a price below which I probably will not be interested at all, except maybe if there are no other bids and we are talking about fairly long term bookings.

From there it is basically a private closed tender or a rolling "first price, sealed bid auction". The highest "sealed bid" I receive on non booked capacity buy the service.

At the moment most of my capacity is engaged elsewhere, but it will get available again eventually.

I'll edit OP, to clarify this.

A few people explained, I'll be the 3rd. =)

Starting a pool right now is very hard. No one wants to join a small pool because it might take days or weeks to find a block. That's days/weeks with no return. You can join a big pool and get paid 6-10 times a day. It ends up being roughly the same money but the bigger pools are much more steady and less variance. Which is why people prefer the big pools.

So if you WANT to start a new pool, you need at least 50 GHs otherwise people won't even bother. Vladimir is offering to help you start a NEW pool which gives you a fighting chance to attract new miners. Ideally if you grow after a few weeks you won't need Vladimir anymore.

Without a lot of hasing power yourself or a bunch of friends with a ton of hashing power you just have no chance at starting a new pool. The only real chance nowadays is to hire a big time miner to help get you going. The price is actually extremely cheap if you actually grow into a popular pool. =)

Correct except the last sentence Still makes sense to invest money

It makes perfect business sense even if you only keep transaction fees as the pool admin, once your pool has been at a stable 100-150ghash/s for a few weeks, it's bound to grow and attract new miners.

When you achieve 300-500ghash/s, you no longer need Vladimirs service, and after he leaves you have a 400ghash/s pool for life that just keeps growing & growing if all goes well on your end (low stales, prompt payments) & if you have modest fees like 0.5% to 1% you'll start seeing profits pretty soon.

The smaller your pool is at the current & upcoming difficulties, the more chance that variance will totally kill your pool in the short term.

Like someone said above, rational small and medium sized miners (100-1000mhash/s) will no longer opt for small pools unless they just like the thrill.
Variance will not even out within the 2 weeks a difficulty level lasts, in the worst case you may not even see a block for 2 weeks (maybe even a month) at the 10-30ghash/s you accumulated naturally.

If I had a pool I'd buy the service instead of only using my own (15ghash) hashrate to kickstart the operation. Beats spending $50k+ additional dollars on hardware getting to that hashrate myself.

You need to use your brain more.

First, there is a PPS pool around that takes no fees and it is NOT taking over the world.

Second, he offers this as a servce which can be "hidden" from the public.

It is basically something like a marketing operation for a starting pool.

The price may not even be expensive for a large operator. If I ahve 100gig myself, I can double that for my own pool JUST giving up 10% of my own shares. Does it make sense? I do not know. Can, can not. I really dont wnt to start a pool unless I have a lot lot lot more power than I need

i don't understand the point of this. if a pool offered a no fee PPS system, people will be all over it within a day. why should a pool owner pay you 10% more? the only thing you're really offering is an "instant" 100 GH/s, rather than a 1-2 day delay.

You get to keep BTC mined. That's why I take my payment upfront and per share.

So who gets to keep the mined BTC from your miners?
or thats why I pay you per share?

I only had one CPU. Even in the earliest days there were people running multiple rigs.

And anyway, you're right; the 10,000 BTC pizzas dated back to the difficulty 1 days.

If you found only a block every few days, it would take 2 years to accumulate 10,000 BTC for that pizzaa