13 Dead at mass shooting in California Bar - page 2.

criptix

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Quote from: TECSHARE on November 10, 2018, 01:49:18 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on November 10, 2018, 01:15:39 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 10, 2018, 12:48:54 PM

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

Homicide rate in the UK (guns, knives, screwdrivers, whatever) is ~80% lower than in the US so I wouldn't describe it as "crazy".

If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns? You're not making any sense. You bring up an arson example from last year and California wildfires... there is a mass shooting nearly every day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

Now im intrigued to know how much deadly cases per 100k we have when we compare all western nations/industry nations.

Seems to me violence is quite the big problem in the usa.

Edit

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/

Highest homicide rate with close to 75% attributed to guns.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: suchmoon on November 10, 2018, 01:15:39 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 10, 2018, 12:48:54 PM

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

Homicide rate in the UK (guns, knives, screwdrivers, whatever) is ~80% lower than in the US so I wouldn't describe it as "crazy".

If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns? You're not making any sense. You bring up an arson example from last year and California wildfires... there is a mass shooting nearly every day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

BADecker

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Quote from: Karisma Black on November 10, 2018, 01:13:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 10, 2018, 01:06:52 PM

Quote from: Karisma Black on November 10, 2018, 12:57:15 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 08, 2018, 08:30:53 AM

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?

You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

Cool

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

You do realize, don't you, that guns aren't the reason that these things happen.

People who want to control the world spend a lot of money promoting things like this just to make it seem that guns are bad.

If all the people in the U.S. picked up their guns, these things would rarely happen in the U.S.

People in peaceful non-gun parts of the world are already slaves, or are not being enslaved more because of gun freedom in the U.S.

If nutjobs used guns inappropriately in a land full of armed people, they'd be dead. Just ask ISIS what happens when people use guns against them.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is lack of more guns, and lack of people who want to stand up for their lives, the lives of their families, and their property, and their rights.

Cool

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to buy a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.
Like I said,you don't hear about mass shootings in Italy, France, the U.K...
But you're right ,let's all have guns so we can shoot anyone. You gave me the finger while driving? You're dead !You stared at my wife ? You're dead! You cut the line at the movies? You're...well you get the point.
Crazy country, crazy president...the rest of the world pitties you, you know.

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to build a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.

Legal Homemade Slamfire Pipe Shotgun (Cost 20$) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LUQ8ESVu5s

LET'S MAKE A SHOTGUN - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqBXGeli60

diy pipe shot gun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkLD3SSfJQ8

Homemade pipe shotgun Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5vSHWZ2mg

And many, many more videos. The technology and ease will improve with more and more people doing it.

Cool

suchmoon

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Quote from: TECSHARE on November 10, 2018, 12:48:54 PM

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

Homicide rate in the UK (guns, knives, screwdrivers, whatever) is ~80% lower than in the US so I wouldn't describe it as "crazy".

If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns? You're not making any sense. You bring up an arson example from last year and California wildfires... there is a mass shooting nearly every day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

Karisma Black

jr. member

Activity: 228

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Quote from: BADecker on November 10, 2018, 01:06:52 PM

Quote from: Karisma Black on November 10, 2018, 12:57:15 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 08, 2018, 08:30:53 AM

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?

You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

Cool

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

You do realize, don't you, that guns aren't the reason that these things happen.

People who want to control the world spend a lot of money promoting things like this just to make it seem that guns are bad.

If all the people in the U.S. picked up their guns, these things would rarely happen in the U.S.

People in peaceful non-gun parts of the world are already slaves, or are not being enslaved more because of gun freedom in the U.S.

If nutjobs used guns inappropriately in a land full of armed people, they'd be dead. Just ask ISIS what happens when people use guns against them.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is lack of more guns, and lack of people who want to stand up for their lives, the lives of their families, and their property, and their rights.

Cool

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to buy a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.
Like I said,you don't hear about mass shootings in Italy, France, the U.K...
But you're right ,let's all have guns so we can shoot anyone. You gave me the finger while driving? You're dead !You stared at my wife ? You're dead! You cut the line at the movies? You're...well you get the point.
Crazy country, crazy president...the rest of the world pitties you, you know.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: Karisma Black on November 10, 2018, 12:57:15 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 08, 2018, 08:30:53 AM

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?

You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

Cool

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

You do realize, don't you, that guns aren't the reason that these things happen.

People who want to control the world spend a lot of money promoting things like this just to make it seem that guns are bad.

If all the people in the U.S. picked up their guns, these things would rarely happen in the U.S.

People in peaceful non-gun parts of the world are already slaves, or are not being enslaved more because of gun freedom in the U.S.

If nutjobs used guns inappropriately in a land full of armed people, they'd be dead. Just ask ISIS what happens when people use guns against them.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is lack of more guns, and lack of people who want to stand up for their lives, the lives of their families, and their property, and their rights.

Cool

bones261

legendary

Activity: 1806

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Quote from: Karisma Black on November 10, 2018, 12:57:15 PM

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeah, the US is the land of freedom...and nutjobs.

That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mass shootings do happen in other "rich" countries, but with much less frequency. I mean according to this Wikipedia article, 3 have happened this year in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada If you are not "hearing" about it, maybe you are not paying enough attention.

Karisma Black

jr. member

Activity: 228

Merit: 4

Quote from: BADecker on November 08, 2018, 08:30:53 AM

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?

You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

Cool

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: suchmoon on November 09, 2018, 04:45:50 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 09, 2018, 04:18:48 PM

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

Guns don't depend on people being in a building or the flammability of said building or many other circumstances that need to coincide for an IED or a building fire to kill people.

What was the last time we had mass murder by fire or by IED?

https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2018/10/03/guthrie-center-county-iowa-fire-paige-exline-arson-murder-crime-nevada-homicide-kill-sexual-abuse-ia/1509016002/

If that is not a high enough count for you how about...

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/western-wildfires/arson-growing-concern-during-california-wildfire-season-n390561

Then there is this...

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/incidents/20130415a.html

and this...

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/incidents/20171031a.html

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

suchmoon

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Quote from: TECSHARE on November 09, 2018, 04:18:48 PM

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

Guns don't depend on people being in a building or the flammability of said building or many other circumstances that need to coincide for an IED or a building fire to kill people.

What was the last time we had mass murder by fire or by IED?

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: suchmoon on November 09, 2018, 09:10:50 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 09, 2018, 04:43:18 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on November 08, 2018, 09:24:59 PM

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Is it? It is really tho? Is gasoline hard to get? What about improvised explosives? How hard is it to steal a car or a truck to run lots of people over with? Are you saying setting fire to a populated building wouldn't kill people faster than a gun? Shit there are enough supplies at any local grocery store to build basic IEDs. This premise is bullshit. What is required to kill is INTENT, not a gun.

You know the problem though? You can't defend your home, your family, or your person with gasoline, IEDs, or trucks.

I think it's harder for an average person to build an IED or set fire to a building than it is to pull a trigger.

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote from: suchmoon on November 09, 2018, 12:31:18 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 09, 2018, 12:01:55 PM

I have seen news, lately, that shows that most of the mass shooters were on some form of medical drug that heightened their sense of insecurity.

You sure it's not chemtrails? Or something in the water?

Unrelated to conspiracy theories, 26 of 27 deadliest mass shootings included the perpetrator being fatherless.

Check it out - https://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/

suchmoon

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Quote from: BADecker on November 09, 2018, 12:01:55 PM

I have seen news, lately, that shows that most of the mass shooters were on some form of medical drug that heightened their sense of insecurity.

You sure it's not chemtrails? Or something in the water?

BADecker

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I have seen news, lately, that shows that most of the mass shooters were on some form of medical drug that heightened their sense of insecurity.

Cool

thirsten

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Modern suburbia gives the ultimate illusion of safety.. Another 13 bite the dust, and some were even present at the Vegas shooting!

Turns out it was an ex-marine. Maybe being a pawn for politicians isn't all that great for mental health.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote from: criptix on November 09, 2018, 03:48:34 AM

Quote from: bones261 on November 08, 2018, 11:43:30 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on November 08, 2018, 11:35:01 PM

Quote from: bones261 on November 08, 2018, 10:57:52 PM

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

AFAIK the NRA is "non-profit" too. Since they are the ones most devoted to the cause, are they the ones who aregoing to be running this mandated co-op? Furthermore, just because a group is non-profit doesn't make it immune from corruption. I really think a government mandated "non-profit" co-op would be ripe pickings for someone "benefactors" to line their pockets.

Isnt the NRA basically the right hand of the gun industry?

Not sure if you can call it non profit or unbiased Huh

I actually did some analysis into where they are getting their funding from, and most of the money really does come from individual contributions. I'd have to dig through some of my old reports to see if I can find the source on that again, but it's at least 70 percent of their funding comes from individual contributions, events, etc.

The gun lobby isn't as big a part of the NRA as some people would like to think.

The NRA really has such a small amount of money compared to other lobbies, they're just a very powerful group that has a sway over public opinion. With that, they don't need money in order to be effective -- which is crazy to think about.

suchmoon

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Quote from: TECSHARE on November 09, 2018, 04:43:18 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on November 08, 2018, 09:24:59 PM

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Is it? It is really tho? Is gasoline hard to get? What about improvised explosives? How hard is it to steal a car or a truck to run lots of people over with? Are you saying setting fire to a populated building wouldn't kill people faster than a gun? Shit there are enough supplies at any local grocery store to build basic IEDs. This premise is bullshit. What is required to kill is INTENT, not a gun.

You know the problem though? You can't defend your home, your family, or your person with gasoline, IEDs, or trucks.

I think it's harder for an average person to build an IED or set fire to a building than it is to pull a trigger.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: suchmoon on November 08, 2018, 09:24:59 PM

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Is it? It is really tho? Is gasoline hard to get? What about improvised explosives? How hard is it to steal a car or a truck to run lots of people over with? Are you saying setting fire to a populated building wouldn't kill people faster than a gun? Shit there are enough supplies at any local grocery store to build basic IEDs. This premise is bullshit. What is required to kill is INTENT, not a gun.

You know the problem though? You can't defend your home, your family, or your person with gasoline, IEDs, or trucks.

criptix

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Quote from: bones261 on November 08, 2018, 11:43:30 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on November 08, 2018, 11:35:01 PM

Quote from: bones261 on November 08, 2018, 10:57:52 PM

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

AFAIK the NRA is "non-profit" too. Since they are the ones most devoted to the cause, are they the ones who aregoing to be running this mandated co-op? Furthermore, just because a group is non-profit doesn't make it immune from corruption. I really think a government mandated "non-profit" co-op would be ripe pickings for someone "benefactors" to line their pockets.

Isnt the NRA basically the right hand of the gun industry?

Not sure if you can call it non profit or unbiased Huh

bones261

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1828

Quote from: suchmoon on November 08, 2018, 11:35:01 PM

Quote from: bones261 on November 08, 2018, 10:57:52 PM

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

AFAIK the NRA is "non-profit" too. Since they are the ones most devoted to the cause, are they the ones who aregoing to be running this mandated co-op? Furthermore, just because a group is non-profit doesn't make it immune from corruption. I really think a government mandated "non-profit" co-op would be ripe pickings for someone "benefactors" to line their pockets.

Topic: 13 Dead at mass shooting in California Bar - page 2. (Read 809 times)