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Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 779. (Read 2591916 times)

legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

*snip*

So which is a superior solution? 

In my opinion, a solution that automatically spins off smaller p2pools, and balances the load between them. That said, simple web interfaces (where users logins are the payout address) are not a terrible idea either, but I don't think we need to build pools that connect to p2pool --  why not just connect those pools straight to the main chain?
Nice idea. +1
sr. member
Activity: 604
Merit: 250
This seems like a good idea, share difficulty is already variable and pays variable so this is probably easy to do. I would prefer this over a complicated SMPPS scheme.

Quote
That said, I'm thinking about several methods that would decrease P2Pool's difficulty, such as letting the big miners on P2Pool voluntarily raise their difficulty so that the smaller miners can use a reduced difficulty while maintaining 10 seconds per share.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0

*snip*

So which is a superior solution? 

In my opinion, a solution that automatically spins off smaller p2pools, and balances the load between them. That said, simple web interfaces (where users logins are the payout address) are not a terrible idea either, but I don't think we need to build pools that connect to p2pool --  why not just connect those pools straight to the main chain?

I like that. :-)
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
but I don't think we need to build pools that connect to p2pool --  why not just connect those pools straight to the main chain?

A mutually beneficial relationship?
They strengthen p2pool with hashing power.
The hashing power of p2pool gives the pool a fighting chance to grow and reduce the hegemony of the big three.

Variance can be brutal on small pools (including p2pool).  It is a win-win.

I agree a dynamic protocol which adaptively splits and reforms p2pools to create multiple medium sized pools based on demand is ideal but who knows if/when that will be written.  It likely can be done but it is a non-trivial problem and won't be written in a weekend. 

p2pool will likely continue to grow rapidly and while block variance will continue to decline share variance will become a burden to small miners.   Some may have interest in supporting p2pool indirectly.  If they don't any "front end" pools will die and it is a non-issue.  There is no magic one fit solution.  It will take a lot of partial solutions to make a dent in deepbit's control over the network.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250

*snip*

So which is a superior solution? 

In my opinion, a solution that automatically spins off smaller p2pools, and balances the load between them. That said, simple web interfaces (where users logins are the payout address) are not a terrible idea either, but I don't think we need to build pools that connect to p2pool --  why not just connect those pools straight to the main chain?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Public P2Pool, how?!

Guys, I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

How can I do it?!

Thanks!
Thiago

So in other words, you want to centralize P2Pool?

Are you kidding me?

So think about this slowly and rationally.

As p2pool grows the share difficulty will grow.  At 1 TH it will take a miner on average 1 day to earn a share.  And with intra-share variance that could be as long as 5-7 days every few blocks and occasionally hit 7-10 days in unlucky streaks.

As p2pool grows its popularity for small and casual miners will wane as rising difficulty becomes higher and higher variance.   So those miners WILL leave.  Now they could go to
a) a front end which uses p2pool and thus can't be used for 51% attack and preserves the core decentralized nature (albeit with some centralization).
b) deepbit or so other major pool.

So which is a superior solution? 
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
Public P2Pool, how?!

Guys, I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

How can I do it?!

Thanks!
Thiago

So in other words, you want to centralize P2Pool?

Are you kidding me?

No, you didn't get the idea.
I want to help.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
Public P2Pool, how?!

Guys, I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

How can I do it?!

Thanks!
Thiago

So in other words, you want to centralize P2Pool?

Are you kidding me?
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 500
I have P2Pool running on one miner and it seems to be running fine. Then I tried to have another computer mine to it and here is what I get:

Is that right?

Have you successfully mined with that computer with other pools?  Or is this behavior specific to p2pool. On the surface that hardware looks sick (lots of hardware errors (HW)).

Note, the frequent long polls are normal.
donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
I have P2Pool running on one miner and it seems to be running fine. Then I tried to have another computer mine to it and here is what I get:


Is that right?
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
Can you plote the same image but for Litecoin P2Pool?!

I have successfully avoided knowing anything about Litecoin, so unfortunatly, I can't.

Okay... Thanks anyway...
Nevertheless, this would be good to the P2Pool development... We can use Litecoin P2Pool to improve Bitcoin P2Pool...  Wink
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 500
Can you plote the same image but for Litecoin P2Pool?!

I have successfully avoided knowing anything about Litecoin, so unfortunatly, I can't.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
1- WHEN the P2Pool difficulty will be bad for small miners? When we reaches 1THash, 2THash, 4THash?!

Much sooner than that.  Some might say it is already bad for small miners.  But I suppose it depends on what you consider "bad for small miners"?  If it takes a typical miner several hours to find a share, that is going to lead to painful variance.

I made a chart to illustrate what happens as the pool gets larger.  The chart is based on an overall bitcoin difficulty of 1.4 million (approx what we are now and will be for the next round).

Here is what the chart shows:

  • The solid red line is the average time for the pool to find a block as the pool's hashrate grows.
  • The dotted lines are the average time for miners of various sizes to find a SHARE as the pool's size increases and the share difficulty increases with it.
  • The point where a dotted line crosses the solid red line is the point at which the average time for a miner to find a share becomes larger than the time for the pool to find a block.

...Image removed from quote...


twmz,

 Can you plote the same image but for Litecoin P2Pool?!

 So we can know when Litecoin P2Pool will be "bad" for small miners too...

 Thank you BTW!

Best,
Thiago
hero member
Activity: 516
Merit: 643
So then to repeat a question I asked someone before (looks like I better go find who that was)
If the share difficulty is say 500 (which means 2759 shares per block) and they are mined by 1000 people, then the block will have 1000 payments in it?
I hope not - killing the block-chain seems like a bad idea no matter how ideologically good it seems.

Yes, though having the hash rate distribution be completely uniform is impossible. Some people will get a lot of the shares, so having one address for every two shares is impossible. In addition, a move to SMPPS with a set minimum payout in the future is possible, though I'm not sure that what we have now will be a problem.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
Woot, I just got p2pool running successfully as a Windows service (using srvany and instsrv, and some registry hacking), and loading its config from a file. Life is good.

Post a guide?

Or an installer -- might help people who don't like/don't want a command window running.
I hacked up the service wrappers that were posted somewhere else on the forum so that I could run bitcoind and namecoind as services and I'm getting ready to post my updates eventually. I'll make a guide at the same time. Might be a few days. I'll see about creating a NSIS based install script, but that will be a bit more difficult.

Cool, I was just suggesting it if you hadn't thought about it.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
Woot, I just got p2pool running successfully as a Windows service (using srvany and instsrv, and some registry hacking), and loading its config from a file. Life is good.

Post a guide?

Or an installer -- might help people who don't like/don't want a command window running.
I hacked up the service wrappers that were posted somewhere else on the forum so that I could run bitcoind and namecoind as services and I'm getting ready to post my updates eventually. I'll make a guide at the same time. Might be a few days. I'll see about creating a NSIS based install script, but that will be a bit more difficult.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
Woot, I just got p2pool running successfully as a Windows service (using srvany and instsrv, and some registry hacking), and loading its config from a file. Life is good.

Post a guide?

Or an installer -- might help people who don't like/don't want a command window running.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
Woot, I just got p2pool running successfully as a Windows service (using srvany and instsrv, and some registry hacking), and loading its config from a file. Life is good.
full member
Activity: 184
Merit: 100
Feel the coffee, be the coffee.
HOLY CRAP!

I FOUND ANOTHER BLOCK!!  ^_^

Sheesh, are they giving blocks away at tradeshows yet ?

*checks couch for a lost block*
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
HOLY CRAP!

I FOUND ANOTHER BLOCK!!  ^_^

Save some for the rest of us! Just kidding, find them all! (As long as you are in the same pool as me.)  Cheesy

hihiHIHIHI ^_^
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