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Topic: 1BTC (69,000 loaves) ≠ 1BTC (20,000 loaves) if Bitcoin is a currency - page 2. (Read 390 times)

legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
What I wanted to emphasize with this thread is that if you use Bitcoin to buy things, you are affected by the considerable drop in purchasing power that has occurred these months, because you buy less than half as much stuff.
I wonder if it is only the drop that led you to this conclusion (not both rise and falls) and whether you would have said the same if price had kept going up (increased purchase power).
Because if it's just because of sudden big drops, then a lot of other currencies in the world are not currencies considering they too dump a lot. For example a couple of years ago the Venezuela's bolívar kept dumping every day, you could wake up every morning to see your purchase power has decreased or euro which got dumped hard recently. People using those currencies lost their purchase power even though they still call these things "currency".
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
When there are market downturns, and in bear markets like this one, the community repeats the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC as a consolation.

the first problem is not the end of the sentence. but the first part. and also this part

If it is a currency, the purchasing power has been reduced by 70% or more

by this i mean. you are assuming and taking judgement of the value of bitcoin to have been worth/valued and in your eyes that it should have stayed at $70k where by the change to $20k was the unexpected, death nail.
with words like reduced, downturn, crash, drop. decline

what you need to understand is that the $70k price point was not where value was, it was not meant to sustain. it was not meant to be the purchasing power.
the $70k was the premium, the temporary bubble event . a price that exceeded expectations and was the exception

bitcoin is now back at good value rate. back in the realm of good pricing.

..
once you can flip your mindset into the notion that low=value and high=premium.
then you see that different mindset at play. where by getting 17,000 loaves of bread was the minimum wage. and the 69,000 was the lucky special christmas bonus. rather than the other way round

its not the case of 69,000 loaves was the minimum wage everyone expects to get and then the 20,000 loaves is the below poverty killer income that causes people to starve and die
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 2213
If you acquire Bitcoin as an investment, and you are going to HODL it for a long time, I understand that you repeat the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC.

Indeed, this 1BTC = 1BTC is pretty much similar to "unrealized loss is not loss" (unless you sell).

To me this statement isn't just a reference to unrealized loss, but rather reflecting that the fundamentals of Bitcoin remain the same. Ie at $69K 1 BTC = 1 BTC, and the same is true at $20K. So the considerable decline in price isn't related to Bitcoin's fundamentals, but merely market movements or cycles. Though of course I agree without selling at a loss, 1 BTC can easily return to ATH.

The irony being that there is more of an argument for Bitcoin's lack of fungibility these days, with some people arguing 1 BTC ≠ 1BTC due to various centralized exchanges/services blacklisting UTXOs. But at the same time, this was also the case when Bitcoin was at $69K, as well as years prior, so doesn't appear relevant to price changes. Also to note the network treats each Bitcoin as equal, regardless of centralized providers suggesting otherwise. There will also be one company or product that can claim Bitcoins aren't equal, but this doesn't mean that they aren't...
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1298
Lightning network is good with small amount of BTC
This point is a quasi-philosophical discussion that I'm not going to get into.

What I wanted to emphasize with this thread is that if you use Bitcoin to buy things, you are affected by the considerable drop in purchasing power that has occurred these months, because you buy less than half as much stuff.

1BTC=1BTC can comfort you if you don't spend the Bitcoin you have to buy goods and services, but HODL it.
I noticed that on this forum that some people will say 1 BTC is 1 BTC, it is right but I too see it as a wrong statement to be used during bear market, but in cases like when a newbie is confused, thinking that the value of his bitcoin can be altered when investing, the newbies can be corrected that no alteration because 1 BTC is 1 BTC. I have noticed that because of the volatility, some newbies are confused.

Bitcoin is a speculative asset in this regard, it is not suitable to be used as a currency. But let us see it in another way too, I still do not have option than to convert my bitcoin to fiat whenever I want to spend, what if I can just spend it directly, that does not differ. But some people do not know how bitcoin price may fluctuate, these are the type of people that should be discouraged from using it as a currency because they may not know when to convert from unstable coin to stable coin and from stable coin back to unstable coin.

You are not wrong.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 4085
Farewell o_e_l_e_o
Indeed, this 1BTC = 1BTC is pretty much similar to "unrealized loss is not loss" (unless you sell).
You should say both that 1 BTC = 1 BTC is similar to either
  • Unrealized profit is not profit
  • Unrealized loss is not loss
If anyone says buying Bitcoin only because of fun, it can be true if it is a trial purchase with very small amount.
If the purchase is big enough, it is not for fun, but for profit. So if it relates to profit motivation, the buyer will have plan to take profit. Just when.

Loss is a loss and even you don't sell your Bitcoin, you still have a loss temporarily. Fortunately, in history, Bitcoin always makes new all time high with each halving and a new bull run.
  • Bitcoin profitable days
  • HODL camp
  • From these charts, 87%+ of holding days are profitable and you won't get loss if you hold Bitcoin more than 4 years, 6 months and 21 days.
copper member
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1179
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Hahaha. This will surely raise a tons of debate like chicken and egg scenario.

There will be no exact answer here to satisfy most of the user here because we have different beliefs and self interest on Bitcoin. For some Bitcoin is a currency and satisfied some condition for being but for others, It’s only an investment instrument because of its design and volatility.

For me, I threat Bitcoin both currency and investment base on my purposed of buying it. I sometimes purchased Bitcoin for digital payment purposes and sometimes buying it for holding in long term. I think it’s all about our perspective.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
For example: Poker Player is Poker Player. Do we agree with that? Surely we do. But is Poker Player when he was 7 years old the same as Poker Player when he is 70 years old? No way.
You age does not change that you are a man. The amount of food you can buy with dollar or any fiat in the last ten years, you can not use the same amount of dollar or fiat to buy it this year, fiat value also decline.

The universe is not the same in (any) 2 different moments. So unless in some very strict mathematical (abstract) setup I would not be surprised if none of those tautologies stand.

This point is a quasi-philosophical discussion that I'm not going to get into.

What I wanted to emphasize with this thread is that if you use Bitcoin to buy things, you are affected by the considerable drop in purchasing power that has occurred these months, because you buy less than half as much stuff.

1BTC=1BTC can comfort you if you don't spend the Bitcoin you have to buy goods and services, but HODL it.



legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 6382
Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
If you acquire Bitcoin as an investment, and you are going to HODL it for a long time, I understand that you repeat the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC.

Indeed, this 1BTC = 1BTC is pretty much similar to "unrealized loss is not loss" (unless you sell).

Tautologies are apparently evident true statements, but if we stop to analyze them, they have many nuances.

The universe is not the same in (any) 2 different moments. So unless in some very strict mathematical (abstract) setup I would not be surprised if none of those tautologies stand.


Now related to the title... this is much more complicated imho. It's not only the fluctuations in Bitcoin price that matters, it's also the country. Because 69k loaves in your country may have been 280k loaves in another country. However, I do get your point and I also feel that this wild fluctuations in the price, while they do bring Bitcoin into the news (especially in the bull runs), they are a barrier in getting it used globally as a currency and also as a store of value.
Many (or maybe all) institutional investors advocating buying Bitcoin, the investors that should drive global acceptance are in trouble now and pretty much silent, since even if it's unrealized loss, it still looks bad on the papers.
So while I do tell that 1BTC=1BTC, indeed, the context matters, hence you're right.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1298
Lightning network is good with small amount of BTC
What is a currency? Anything that has value that is spent by people, but the value is not what that makes it a currency, it is the physical form it has. A dollar note is a currency but if changed to new type, the old note becomes useless.

What is money? The intrinsic value of anything that people spend often makes it money.

Is bitcoin a currency? Bitcoin is money, not having a physical form but a digital form that we heard about and that we use to know that it is of value, even if not called a currency, it can still be referred to as a cryptocurrency.

Types of currency: if it can be physical and digital currency, bitcoin being a currency will lead to another debate.

For example: Poker Player is Poker Player. Do we agree with that? Surely we do. But is Poker Player when he was 7 years old the same as Poker Player when he is 70 years old? No way.
You age does not change that you are a man. The amount of food you can buy with dollar or any fiat in the last ten years, you can not use the same amount of dollar or fiat to buy it this year, fiat value also decline.
legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 4265
✿♥‿♥✿
t is also interesting that such a mantra is repeated only by those who more or less believe in bitcoin, and probably have some investment in it. To maintain the sequence of their correct actions, as people tend to evaluate themselves better. But at a time when the market is falling, I see nasty statements from my acquaintances that this is not so. An even more popular solution is that bitcoin is simply obliged to grow and regularly make a profit, and when something does not work, panic and sales begin, as many expect quick profits and are not ready to wait.
hero member
Activity: 2310
Merit: 532
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
Quote
If you acquire Bitcoin as an investment, and you are going to HODL it for a long time, I understand that you repeat the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC

Not necessarily! Because this statement is not practical!

Bitcoin has not yet reached to such a stage where we can consider it as an independent currency. To be honest, bitcoin is a great investment but not a good currency to transact on a daily basis for number of reasons. If bitcoin was really a great currency, it would have become a dominant payment method by now which certainly didn't happen. But it has become a great investment because of its upside potential. It has become a great trading currency because of its volatility and that's pretty much it!
I had the same thought, without a supporting currency bitcoin can't be used as a currency. It is good as an investment, but it requires lot of support to be used as a currency. Even if bitcoin is valued in terms of Satoshi, every Satoshi will be valued in USD which is how it hold its value.

Bitcoin can be used as a currency on daily basis if each and everything is priced in terms of bitcoin. This is tedious, because for a product that we pay with bitcoin might cost 0.01BTC, and the same when paid in USD will be lower or higher depending on bitcoin's price fluctuation. Here people wish to pay through which they can enjoy the lowest price for the particular product.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1500
Quote
If you acquire Bitcoin as an investment, and you are going to HODL it for a long time, I understand that you repeat the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC

Not necessarily! Because this statement is not practical!

Bitcoin has not yet reached to such a stage where we can consider it as an independent currency. To be honest, bitcoin is a great investment but not a good currency to transact on a daily basis for number of reasons. If bitcoin was really a great currency, it would have become a dominant payment method by now which certainly didn't happen. But it has become a great investment because of its upside potential. It has become a great trading currency because of its volatility and that's pretty much it!
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
I have commented on this in another thread but it seems to me that this deserves a dedicated thread specifically.

When there are market downturns, and in bear markets like this one, the community repeats the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC as a consolation.

And I understand that it has its logic for someone who acquires Bitcoin and will HODL it for a long time, but not if we conceive it as a currency, as a P2P cash as Satoshi conceived it, because if it is a currency we are going to use it frequently, in the day to day to acquire goods and services. If it is a currency, the purchasing power has been reduced by 70% or more.

If Bitcoin is a currency, you are going to use it to buy things, and the fact is that months ago, assuming that for example buying a loaf of bread cost you $1 or its equivalent in Bitcoin, with 1BTC you would buy 69,000 loaves, and today you buy only 20,000, which is a considerable difference.

If you acquire Bitcoin as an investment, and you are going to HODL it for a long time, I understand that you repeat the mantra that 1BTC is 1BTC.

Tautologies are apparently evident true statements, but if we stop to analyze them, they have many nuances.

For example: Poker Player is Poker Player. Do we agree with that? Surely we do. But is Poker Player when he was 7 years old the same as Poker Player when he is 70 years old? No way.
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