Topic: 1st bidirectional ATM in Belgium (Read 3964 times)
Updated with the new location. BTM is back available
BTM is now at the "Next Level", taking the sunshine in good company! Look at the picture: Terrace, on second floor same location. Enjoy our New Location DEAL! From Monday 18th May to Saturday 23rd, sell Bitcoins for cash at an exceptionally low 2% commission rate!
New Year, new limits! Daily limit has been raised to EUR 1000 for buying and selling #bitcoins with GSM only authentication.
For id_verified people, there is also a new increased limit.
For id_verified people, there is also a new increased limit.
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With our Christmas deals, buy Bitcoins with a 50% fee cut until 26/12 6pm!
Thank you for the ideas. We will analyze them.
Nevertheless, I've from first reading some remarks:
The BTM has to be used as an entry point for bitcoins. The use of the machine is already difficult for someone who isn't aware how bitcoin wallets works. If you want on top of that use signature, only the bitcoin geek will understand. Or maybe I don't understand the point?
Nevertheless, I've from first reading some remarks:
The BTM has to be used as an entry point for bitcoins. The use of the machine is already difficult for someone who isn't aware how bitcoin wallets works. If you want on top of that use signature, only the bitcoin geek will understand. Or maybe I don't understand the point?
When buying BTC, there does not need to be a signature since the notes can be counted instantly and the BTC can be paid out.
It's for selling BTC. When you sell BTC and need to wait for confirmations, you return later to the BTM and sign a message is shows you in order to get your draghi papers.
Also, I just meant it to be an alternative so you dont have to provide your phone number. When buying, you don't need a phone number wither since you don't have to return later to collect your coins.
How do you intercept SMS? It is a very difficult task to do. The air interface between the mobile and the radio network is encrypted. As far as I know, there is no way to decrypt it on the fly.
It's not a trivial task, thats true. I honestly don't wanna talk about it in public, will send a PN. Hello,
may I suggest offering an alternative way in order to collect your cash? Not everyone wants to provide his phone number and maybe someone is just there with his laptop etc. or does not want to use his phone for bitcoins.
What you could do is either ask for the phone number and do the SMS thingy in order to release the notes, or post a message that has to be signed by one of the addresses the payment came from.
The latter would obviously be more save since it cannot be intercepted the way an SMS can.
Thank you for the ideas. We will analyze them.may I suggest offering an alternative way in order to collect your cash? Not everyone wants to provide his phone number and maybe someone is just there with his laptop etc. or does not want to use his phone for bitcoins.
What you could do is either ask for the phone number and do the SMS thingy in order to release the notes, or post a message that has to be signed by one of the addresses the payment came from.
The latter would obviously be more save since it cannot be intercepted the way an SMS can.
Nevertheless, I've from first reading some remarks:
The BTM has to be used as an entry point for bitcoins. The use of the machine is already difficult for someone who isn't aware how bitcoin wallets works. If you want on top of that use signature, only the bitcoin geek will understand. Or maybe I don't understand the point?
How do you intercept SMS? It is a very difficult task to do. The air interface between the mobile and the radio network is encrypted. As far as I know, there is no way to decrypt it on the fly.
Hello,
may I suggest offering an alternative way in order to collect your cash? Not everyone wants to provide his phone number and maybe someone is just there with his laptop etc. or does not want to use his phone for bitcoins.
What you could do is either ask for the phone number and do the SMS thingy in order to release the notes, or post a message that has to be signed by one of the addresses the payment came from.
The latter would obviously be more save since it cannot be intercepted the way an SMS can.
may I suggest offering an alternative way in order to collect your cash? Not everyone wants to provide his phone number and maybe someone is just there with his laptop etc. or does not want to use his phone for bitcoins.
What you could do is either ask for the phone number and do the SMS thingy in order to release the notes, or post a message that has to be signed by one of the addresses the payment came from.
The latter would obviously be more save since it cannot be intercepted the way an SMS can.
On the day you were there, we had just had several big sales in a row. Yours sell has finally emptied the machine. You received all the bank notes that the machine was able to give (so all the 5, the 10 …). We are still in the early stages of our business and have not figured out sales or buy patterns totally yet. We will load the machine with much more larger notes.
Bigger notes would help. But surely the dispenser can be made a lot faster in a future version of the machine.
I understand thats outside of your control, you just might want to pass it on to the manufacturer.
Quote
Until a few weeks ago it was two confirmations for a sale. It has been lowered to 1. You have been unlucky with the confirmation by the miners. That’s why you waited so long. We apologise.
No need, how fast blocks are found is outside of anyone's control, and in my case it was actually quite fast.
Quote
The reason there are several codes that have to be entered for a redeem is to avoid someone coming along and punching randomly a code and collecting someone’s cash.
I think thats easily avoidable. The code you have to enter to redeem, already was pretty long, something like 10 digits I believe ? If need be, make it even longer. Include alphabetic characters. What are the odds someone would successfully enter one out of, I would guess maximum 5 concurrent pending withdrawals, with a 10+ character code? 5/36^10 = ~1/73000000000000. If anyone manages to guess my redemption code with less than a million attempts, he earned it
OK tried it today. Sold a little less than 1 BTC. Here is what I found;
The good news is that it works, and that by itself is pretty awesome. The exchange rate/ margin is doable for occasional use. The location where the atm is hosted is brilliant, didnt know it, but its lovely internet/cafe/bistro/not sure what you have there, although one does look out of place without a laptop.
The not so good news;
First its a bit more cumbersome than I expected and than needed. First you register with your phone, confirm with an SMS code that arrives almost instantly. Fair enough, one comment perhaps is you might want to mention the phonenumber needs to be entered in international format. Selling itself is easy enough with QR code. After you sent your bitcoins, you have to wait for I believe 2 confirmations. Thats entirely reasonable, so far so good.
Once the 2 confirmations have arrived, you receive an SMS with a code and a msg that you can collect the cash. To use the code, you have to log in again with your phonenumber, which is then validated again by yet another code via SMS, you have to enter the code, then enter the code of the earlier sms to collect. That shouldnt be necessary. Just entering the code on the confirmation sms should be enough IMO.
Secondly, the atm was nearly out of cash. I hope thats not going to happen too frequently. This might partially explain my last problem; when I collected the cash, the atm spits out one note at the time, and does so reaaaly slowly. I looked like an idiot picking up a 5 euro note, waiting, a 10 euro note, waiting, another 5 euro note, waiting, over and over again with only a few 20 euro notes and no 50 (let alone 100 euro). It took forever!
For tiny amounts, who cares, but I pity the guy that collects 500 euro there!
Hi,The good news is that it works, and that by itself is pretty awesome. The exchange rate/ margin is doable for occasional use. The location where the atm is hosted is brilliant, didnt know it, but its lovely internet/cafe/bistro/not sure what you have there, although one does look out of place without a laptop.
The not so good news;
First its a bit more cumbersome than I expected and than needed. First you register with your phone, confirm with an SMS code that arrives almost instantly. Fair enough, one comment perhaps is you might want to mention the phonenumber needs to be entered in international format. Selling itself is easy enough with QR code. After you sent your bitcoins, you have to wait for I believe 2 confirmations. Thats entirely reasonable, so far so good.
Once the 2 confirmations have arrived, you receive an SMS with a code and a msg that you can collect the cash. To use the code, you have to log in again with your phonenumber, which is then validated again by yet another code via SMS, you have to enter the code, then enter the code of the earlier sms to collect. That shouldnt be necessary. Just entering the code on the confirmation sms should be enough IMO.
Secondly, the atm was nearly out of cash. I hope thats not going to happen too frequently. This might partially explain my last problem; when I collected the cash, the atm spits out one note at the time, and does so reaaaly slowly. I looked like an idiot picking up a 5 euro note, waiting, a 10 euro note, waiting, another 5 euro note, waiting, over and over again with only a few 20 euro notes and no 50 (let alone 100 euro). It took forever!
For tiny amounts, who cares, but I pity the guy that collects 500 euro there!
Thanks for reviewing our service and taking time to put it online for the Bitcoin community.
You mentioned some important things, one that it works! What counts is the user experience.
You are right in pointing out some flaws.
We totally agree that the sell process can be cumbersome and slow for large amounts.
On the day you were there, we had just had several big sales in a row. Yours sell has finally emptied the machine. You received all the bank notes that the machine was able to give (so all the 5, the 10 …). We are still in the early stages of our business and have not figured out sales or buy patterns totally yet. We will load the machine with much more larger notes.
Until a few weeks ago it was two confirmations for a sale. It has been lowered to 1. You have been unlucky with the confirmation by the miners. That’s why you waited so long. We apologise.
The reason there are several codes that have to be entered for a redeem is to avoid someone coming along and punching randomly a code and collecting someone’s cash.
As for the location, Coffeelabs, it is pretty fashionable and laptop-oriented and now accepts payment in BTC for food and beverages!
OK tried it today. Sold a little less than 1 BTC. Here is what I found;
The good news is that it works, and that by itself is pretty awesome. The exchange rate/ margin is doable for occasional use. The location where the atm is hosted is brilliant, didnt know it, but its lovely internet/cafe/bistro/not sure what you have there, although one does look out of place without a laptop.
The not so good news;
First its a bit more cumbersome than I expected and than needed. First you register with your phone, confirm with an SMS code that arrives almost instantly. Fair enough, one comment perhaps is you might want to mention the phonenumber needs to be entered in international format. Selling itself is easy enough with QR code. After you sent your bitcoins, you have to wait for I believe 2 confirmations. Thats entirely reasonable, so far so good.
Once the 2 confirmations have arrived, you receive an SMS with a code and a msg that you can collect the cash. To use the code, you have to log in again with your phonenumber, which is then validated again by yet another code via SMS, you have to enter the code, then enter the code of the earlier sms to collect. That shouldnt be necessary. Just entering the code on the confirmation sms should be enough IMO.
Secondly, the atm was nearly out of cash. I hope thats not going to happen too frequently. This might partially explain my last problem; when I collected the cash, the atm spits out one note at the time, and does so reaaaly slowly. I looked like an idiot picking up a 5 euro note, waiting, a 10 euro note, waiting, another 5 euro note, waiting, over and over again with only a few 20 euro notes and no 50 (let alone 100 euro). It took forever!
For tiny amounts, who cares, but I pity the guy that collects 500 euro there!
The good news is that it works, and that by itself is pretty awesome. The exchange rate/ margin is doable for occasional use. The location where the atm is hosted is brilliant, didnt know it, but its lovely internet/cafe/bistro/not sure what you have there, although one does look out of place without a laptop.
The not so good news;
First its a bit more cumbersome than I expected and than needed. First you register with your phone, confirm with an SMS code that arrives almost instantly. Fair enough, one comment perhaps is you might want to mention the phonenumber needs to be entered in international format. Selling itself is easy enough with QR code. After you sent your bitcoins, you have to wait for I believe 2 confirmations. Thats entirely reasonable, so far so good.
Once the 2 confirmations have arrived, you receive an SMS with a code and a msg that you can collect the cash. To use the code, you have to log in again with your phonenumber, which is then validated again by yet another code via SMS, you have to enter the code, then enter the code of the earlier sms to collect. That shouldnt be necessary. Just entering the code on the confirmation sms should be enough IMO.
Secondly, the atm was nearly out of cash. I hope thats not going to happen too frequently. This might partially explain my last problem; when I collected the cash, the atm spits out one note at the time, and does so reaaaly slowly. I looked like an idiot picking up a 5 euro note, waiting, a 10 euro note, waiting, another 5 euro note, waiting, over and over again with only a few 20 euro notes and no 50 (let alone 100 euro). It took forever!
For tiny amounts, who cares, but I pity the guy that collects 500 euro there!
Whats the reason for the limit and for it being raised? IM guessing there is some legal/KYC/anti money laundering regulation you have to comply with? Does that impose a firm limit on daily/weekly anonymous transactions like this?
Yes the reasons behind are KYC/AML. Laws are currently being changed in Belgium regarding cash payments. We are studying the topic with our lawyer for a final threshold. Meanwhile, the threshold has been increased from €250 to €500.
Whats the reason for the limit and for it being raised? IM guessing there is some legal/KYC/anti money laundering regulation you have to comply with? Does that impose a firm limit on daily/weekly anonymous transactions like this?
OFFICIAL BITCOINTALK ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD FOR BELGIAN BIDIRECTIONAL BITCOIN ATM
What does the bidirectional part mean?
1. Buy bitcoins with euro cash (immediately processing)
2. Sell bitcoins and receive euro cash (immediately processing for amount below or equal 20€) Above 20€, we ask for 2 confirmations from the Bitcoin network which takes around 20 minutes.
Nice, and how much is the difference between the rates for buying and selling bitcoins?
Also, can't people pay by double spending and withdraw 20 euros?
We wait for a confirmation to avoid double spending attack from fraudulent customer.
OFFICIAL BITCOINTALK ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD FOR BELGIAN BIDIRECTIONAL BITCOIN ATM
What does the bidirectional part mean?
1. Buy bitcoins with euro cash (immediately processing)
2. Sell bitcoins and receive euro cash (immediately processing for amount below or equal 20€) Above 20€, we ask for 2 confirmations from the Bitcoin network which takes around 20 minutes.
Nice, and how much is the difference between the rates for buying and selling bitcoins?
Also, can't people pay by double spending and withdraw 20 euros?
We wait for a confirmation to avoid double spending attack from fraudulent customer.
OFFICIAL BITCOINTALK ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD FOR BELGIAN BIDIRECTIONAL BITCOIN ATM
What does the bidirectional part mean?
1. Buy bitcoins with euro cash (immediately processing)
2. Sell bitcoins and receive euro cash (immediately processing for amount below or equal 20€) Above 20€, we ask for 2 confirmations from the Bitcoin network which takes around 20 minutes.
Nice, and how much is the difference between the rates for buying and selling bitcoins?
Also, can't people pay by double spending and withdraw 20 euros?
The daily limit without ID verification has been increased up to 250€. No need to introduce the Id card or passport below that threshold.
Just curious, what would stop me from selling 250 euro worth of coins several time a day?
The daily limit without ID verification has been increased up to 250€. No need to introduce the Id card or passport below that threshold.
Just curious, what would stop me from selling 250 euro worth of coins several time a day?
Enjoy our cyber Monday deal! This Monday only, get your Bitcoins for cash at an exceptionally low 2% commission rate! Come use the EBTM bitcoin machine at Coffeelabs. Sell your bitcoins at the same 2% commission rate
Our partners at Coffeelabs, where our BTM is located, are now accepting Bitcoin payments for drinks and food.
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