2 Phase Immersion cooling for the home - page 2.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: jimmothy on April 17, 2014, 01:23:01 AM

2. do you have R&D to build a safety measurement system

I have plenty of time to r&d but not much funds.

Would a pressure releif valve and temp monitoring be good enough?

I would say temp monitoring and water pressure of the coolant loop monitoring are very doable.

As your design would be open, you will just lose Novec liquid if it build up pressure.

seriouscoin

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Also OP, you should be careful with certain computer board. The boiling from the Novec can be strong enough to blow small components on the board. I heard someone tested with a cheap Foxcom board and it happened the boiling killed the board.

jimmothy

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2. do you have R&D to build a safety measurement system

I have plenty of time to r&d but not much funds.

Would a pressure releif valve and temp monitoring be good enough?

seriouscoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: seriouscoin on April 17, 2014, 01:13:02 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: seriouscoin on April 17, 2014, 12:59:59 AM

It is pressurized if your cold plate failed.

Explain how the cold plate would fail? Doubtful if you have it properly engineered.

Yes and I would agree.

Use the Asicminer design as starting templating.

Closed Immersion Tank (Not pressurized)
Condensing Coil

uh.... because the heatexchanger failed? or the tube is leaked? corrosion?.....you want me to list it?

properly engineering mean they take all safety measurement for a failure prevention system.... not " it cant fail"

That would not be under great pressure. There are systems out there now that have off the shelf components. You are going to have issues if you use crap parts. The distances and pressures for a single unit are not that great. Just get yourself a GOOD plumber. I think what you want is something that you can play around with have newer miners that you can drop in and test. Not like this is going to make money cause we all know the numbers.

Pressure is from vapourizing , nothing to do with plumber.... Roll Eyes

seriouscoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: seriouscoin on April 17, 2014, 01:13:02 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: seriouscoin on April 17, 2014, 12:59:59 AM

It is pressurized if your cold plate failed.

Explain how the cold plate would fail? Doubtful if you have it properly engineered.

Yes and I would agree.

Use the Asicminer design as starting templating.

Closed Immersion Tank (Not pressurized)
Condensing Coil

uh.... because the heatexchanger failed? or the tube is leaked? corrosion?.....you want me to list it?

properly engineering mean they take all safety measurement for a failure prevention system.... not " it cant fail"

That would not be under pressure.

LOL yeah right.

Dont just repeating the same crap, either elaborate or dont bother replying.

Also,,, the design the OP wanted is called open bath even tho its closed tank. Its not Closed Immersion cooling.

http://www.hpcadvisorycouncil.com/pdf/vendor_content/3M_DatacenterDynamicsFocusTuma.pdf

seriouscoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: seriouscoin on April 17, 2014, 12:59:59 AM

It is pressurized if your cold plate failed.

Explain how the cold plate would fail? Doubtful if you have it properly engineered.

Yes and I would agree.

Use the Asicminer design as starting templating.

Closed Immersion Tank (Not pressurized)
Condensing Coil

uh.... because the heatexchanger failed? or the tube is leaked? corrosion?.....you want me to list it?

properly engineering mean they take all safety measurement for a failure prevention system.... not " it cant fail"

seriouscoin

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Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: jimmothy on April 17, 2014, 01:05:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jimmothy on April 17, 2014, 12:43:01 AM

How would I deal with the vapor pressure?

How can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?

I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.

And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)

What pressure? They are not pressurized.

There are a lot of design issues to do this.

1. Do you have a board that is designed to be housed in the system?
2. Do you have system for the board? You would at this stage have the Engineer do the calculation so you are not building a BOMB.
3. Do you have a cooling system designed?
4. Do you have a racking system designed?

The pressure from evaporating liquid?

1. I am under the impression that any board would work with novec or something similar.
2. What do you mean exactly? I have not build anything I am just conceptualizing.
3. My idea is similar to this: http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Immersion_Cooling_Concept_Xeon_Phi_Poster_WEB.pdf

4. No, but how hard can it be?

1. he meant custom pcb size
2. do you have R&D to build a safety measurement system
3. Its a open bath system, as i said earlier... its alot safer, not as elegant and datacentre-friendly but who cares.
4. Agree with you, rack is not part of the system. Icesotope just want their system to be adapted by current datacentre

jimmothy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jimmothy on April 17, 2014, 12:43:01 AM

How would I deal with the vapor pressure?

How can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?

I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.

And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)

What pressure? They are not pressurized.

There are a lot of design issues to do this.

1. Do you have a board that is designed to be housed in the system?
2. Do you have system for the board? You would at this stage have the Engineer do the calculation so you are not building a BOMB.
3. Do you have a cooling system designed?
4. Do you have a racking system designed?

The pressure from evaporating liquid?

1. I am under the impression that any board would work with novec or something similar.
2. What do you mean exactly? I have not build anything I am just conceptualizing.
3. My idea is similar to this: http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Immersion_Cooling_Concept_Xeon_Phi_Poster_WEB.pdf

4. No, but how hard can it be?

seriouscoin

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Activity: 658

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jimmothy on April 17, 2014, 12:43:01 AM

How would I deal with the vapor pressure?

How can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?

I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.

And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)

What pressure? They are not pressurized.

There are a lot of design issues to do this.

1. Do you have a board that is designed to be housed in the system?
2. Do you have system for the board? You would at this stage have the Engineer do the calculation so you are not building a BOMB.
3. Do you have a cooling system designed?
4. Do you have a racking system designed?

It is pressurized if your cold plate failed.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: jimmothy on April 17, 2014, 12:43:01 AM

How would I deal with the vapor pressure?

Basically how can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?

I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.

And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)

I can imagine there is a safety mechanism like a ~~valve with PSI threshold setting~~ or a monitoring controller that shutoff the server if the coldplate failed.

As long as your cold plate can keep the Nove liquid to stay at 50c or whatever the boiling point is.

This is where R&D come in.

I suggest you should look at open immersion cooling instead. Alot safer and cheaper.

Btw, did you find a good source to buy Novec yet? I keep hearing $400/gallon..... thats alot higher than i thought (i thought it was like $200/gallon)

jimmothy

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How would I deal with the vapor pressure?

Basically how can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?

I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.

And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)

seriouscoin

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Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: jimmothy on April 15, 2014, 07:17:08 AM

Quote from: aerobatic on April 15, 2014, 06:56:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2 phase inside the board side and a water block on the other.

The novec is boiled and condensed changing phase on one side of the sealed unit. The others side removes heat with water rad system. If you have a mining board that conforms to a the Iceotope form factor it could be ready now. You would still need the server modular units though check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHHHYcdPFnQ

iceotope isnt 2-phase, theyre using the novec without boiling it (may as well be mineral oil). theyve got pumps and radiators inside each blade. makes no sense. ignoring the best bit of novec tech.

Even if its not 2 phase I am interested in how they can unattach the server without leaking water.

What is the name of magical this part??

Think of ink cartridge. Very similar design, the vapour chamber ,in which the server is completely submerged with the Novec liquid, is sealed with the cold plate (a gigantic waterblock).

The coolant inside the waterblock is cheap and i'm sure the external heatexchange has resorvoir built in so even if some tiny amount of coolant lost (air got into the block), air bubble will be bleed out as soon as the pump runs.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: aerobatic on April 15, 2014, 06:56:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2 phase inside the board side and a water block on the other.

The novec is boiled and condensed changing phase on one side of the sealed unit. The others side removes heat with water rad system. If you have a mining board that conforms to a the Iceotope form factor it could be ready now. You would still need the server modular units though check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHHHYcdPFnQ

iceotope isnt 2-phase, theyre using the novec without boiling it (may as well be mineral oil). theyve got pumps and radiators inside each blade. makes no sense. ignoring the best bit of novec tech.

Are you an idiot?

Iceotope is 2 phase. Do you even know what 2 phase means?

Its liquid-gas vapour chamber design. Like heatpipe, it IS 2 phase. Dumbass.

aerobatic

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Quote from: jimmothy on April 15, 2014, 07:17:08 AM

Quote from: aerobatic on April 15, 2014, 06:56:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2 phase inside the board side and a water block on the other.

The novec is boiled and condensed changing phase on one side of the sealed unit. The others side removes heat with water rad system. If you have a mining board that conforms to a the Iceotope form factor it could be ready now. You would still need the server modular units though check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHHHYcdPFnQ

iceotope isnt 2-phase, theyre using the novec without boiling it (may as well be mineral oil). theyve got pumps and radiators inside each blade. makes no sense. ignoring the best bit of novec tech.

Even if its not 2 phase I am interested in how they can unattach the server without leaking water.

What is the name of magical this part??

you can buy drip free 'quick connects' from lots of places ...

cheap ones from koolance.. but there are much better ones available

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2013/07/02/2013-quick-disconnect-roundup/

jimmothy

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Quote from: aerobatic on April 15, 2014, 06:56:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2 phase inside the board side and a water block on the other.

The novec is boiled and condensed changing phase on one side of the sealed unit. The others side removes heat with water rad system. If you have a mining board that conforms to a the Iceotope form factor it could be ready now. You would still need the server modular units though check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHHHYcdPFnQ

iceotope isnt 2-phase, theyre using the novec without boiling it (may as well be mineral oil). theyve got pumps and radiators inside each blade. makes no sense. ignoring the best bit of novec tech.

Even if its not 2 phase I am interested in how they can unattach the server without leaking water.

What is the name of magical this part??

aerobatic

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Activity: 702

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

2 phase inside the board side and a water block on the other.

The novec is boiled and condensed changing phase on one side of the sealed unit. The others side removes heat with water rad system. If you have a mining board that conforms to a the Iceotope form factor it could be ready now. You would still need the server modular units though check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHHHYcdPFnQ

iceotope isnt 2-phase, theyre using the novec without boiling it (may as well be mineral oil). theyve got pumps and radiators inside each blade. makes no sense. ignoring the best bit of novec tech.

jimmothy

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Im confused how that system works.

Is it 2-phase? If so where is the condenser?

jimmothy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jimmothy on April 14, 2014, 03:28:16 PM

Anyone know if this is practical?

You have check out the other thread on the small system for 2 phase right?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255613.40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pNSUKp8ov4

Saw it but it looks somewhat inefficient/inpractical. It looks like that massive fishtank is only cooling something like 100W worth of bitfuries.

And would novec 7000 be the best fluid? I would think it would not be optimal with such a low boiling point. Wouldn't it require much colder water to condense the vapor? Not sure how well it would work on hot summer days.

aerobatic

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i spoke with alex at allied control about doing a scaled down version for the home and he thought there would be lots of problems and that its best kept at an industrial scale where it can be monitored by professionals and that the potential for escaping vapour wont present a problem.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Dexter770221 on April 14, 2014, 03:51:05 PM

If you want to heat your house then not so practical. To be efective hot water that enters the heaters must have high temperature like 65C and more. And with immersion cooling you want to cool chips with liquids with boiling point below 40C. To warm up water for bathing then it may work with liquids with boiling point at ~50C. My 2 cents.

This would be for 1kw+ systems so that would probably be too much for a heater. I am wondering if a scaled down version of allied controls system would work. (Water cooled condenser and outdoor radiator)

Topic: 2 Phase Immersion cooling for the home - page 2. (Read 2361 times)