2012-12-07 americanbanker.com - Disruptor Chris Larsen Returns with a Bitcoin - page 2.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: db on December 10, 2012, 12:08:37 PM

Quote from: cbeast on December 10, 2012, 11:30:22 AM

Let's us dudes credit each other a million ripples so we can all be rippleaires. We'll give our friends a discount and kickback for accepting our IOUs. Then they can be rippleaires too!

Go ahead! This affects no one but you and your friends. Great for you that you trust each other that much!

This is how the current system works. It's not about friendship, it's about collusion. Quants make the IOUs out of whatever they scrape out of the trash bin and their broker buddies sell it to suckers. Ripple will work the same way.

db

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Quote from: cbeast on December 10, 2012, 11:30:22 AM

Let's us dudes credit each other a million ripples so we can all be rippleaires. We'll give our friends a discount and kickback for accepting our IOUs. Then they can be rippleaires too!

Go ahead! This affects no one but you and your friends. Great for you that you trust each other that much!

Anon136

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Quote from: jimbobway on December 10, 2012, 10:24:35 AM

Quote from: db on December 10, 2012, 04:03:54 AM

Quote from: jimbobway on December 09, 2012, 08:37:11 PM

Fugger also said the same problem existed with previous versions of ripple. Everyone wants to borrow but no one pays back.

No, this is the problem (with LETS) that Ripple solves.

Quote from: American Banker

Fugger conceived Ripple in 2004 after working on a "local exchange trading system" in Vancouver. This experiment in community currency was plagued by free riders who never fulfilled their obligations, says Fugger.

"My idea to fix this was that credits should never be owed to the system as a whole, but only to individuals within the system who have explicitly agreed to trust the issuer, and bear any loss if those obligations aren't fulfilled," Fugger says.

Trust is not enough. You need law, contracts, enforcement and penalty. The only penalty if you dont pay back is you get kicked out of you trust network, which is not a big deal.

but this is precisely how credit scores work and they work pretty well over all.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Let's us dudes credit each other a million ripples so we can all be rippleaires. We'll give our friends a discount and kickback for accepting our IOUs. Then they can be rippleaires too!

db

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Quote from: jimbobway on December 10, 2012, 10:24:35 AM

Trust is not enough. You need law, contracts, enforcement and penalty. The only penalty if you dont pay back is you get kicked out of you trust network, which is not a big deal.

The trust network is your friends and family. Most people don't want to get kicked out of that. And those who don't care are already kicked out. It's just as easy to borrow money from friends and family without Ripple. It's just not as easy to use that credit to make payments to strangers across the world.

jimbobway

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Quote from: db on December 10, 2012, 04:03:54 AM

Quote from: jimbobway on December 09, 2012, 08:37:11 PM

Fugger also said the same problem existed with previous versions of ripple. Everyone wants to borrow but no one pays back.

No, this is the problem (with LETS) that Ripple solves.

Quote from: American Banker

Fugger conceived Ripple in 2004 after working on a "local exchange trading system" in Vancouver. This experiment in community currency was plagued by free riders who never fulfilled their obligations, says Fugger.

"My idea to fix this was that credits should never be owed to the system as a whole, but only to individuals within the system who have explicitly agreed to trust the issuer, and bear any loss if those obligations aren't fulfilled," Fugger says.

Trust is not enough. You need law, contracts, enforcement and penalty. The only penalty if you dont pay back is you get kicked out of you trust network, which is not a big deal.

db

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Activity: 279

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Quote from: jimbobway on December 09, 2012, 08:37:11 PM

Fugger also said the same problem existed with previous versions of ripple. Everyone wants to borrow but no one pays back.

No, this is the problem (with LETS) that Ripple solves.

Quote from: American Banker

Fugger conceived Ripple in 2004 after working on a "local exchange trading system" in Vancouver. This experiment in community currency was plagued by free riders who never fulfilled their obligations, says Fugger.

"My idea to fix this was that credits should never be owed to the system as a whole, but only to individuals within the system who have explicitly agreed to trust the issuer, and bear any loss if those obligations aren't fulfilled," Fugger says.

jimbobway

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Quote from: sunnankar on December 09, 2012, 04:48:07 PM

Quote from: grondilu on December 09, 2012, 04:37:40 PM

In other words, I wonder if a credit/lending system can work without any kind of recouvrement (sorry I don't know the english for that).

Sure it could but would likely need to integrate with more traditional infrastructure. For example, A could trust B with $1,000,000 via contract with something like a line of credit secured by some asset. Should B default then A could seek recourse through the court system, or even use something like judge.me, against B and the secured assets according to the terms of the contract.

Ha. The way lending works initially is if you don't pay back then u hire the mafia to break the borrowers leg. Ripple will only work if the mafia equivalent group can be hired on silk road. Otherwise, I believe ripple will fail. Fugger also said the same problem existed with previous versions of ripple. Everyone wants to borrow but no one pays back.

BCB

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BCJ

[snip]Larsen would say little about the details of the venture. "We're in stealth mode," he says[/snip]

Didn't Trendon Shavers say stuff like that?

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Ripple is a great idea for a system for people that trust each other. It is not appropriate for a financial system as it is far more corruptible that the current fractional reserve system. IOUs, really? This is article is a disingenuous claim.

sunnankar

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Quote from: grondilu on December 09, 2012, 04:37:40 PM

In other words, I wonder if a credit/lending system can work without any kind of recouvrement (sorry I don't know the english for that).

Sure it could but would likely need to integrate with more traditional infrastructure. For example, A could trust B with $1,000,000 via contract with something like a line of credit secured by some asset. Should B default then A could seek recourse through the court system, or even use something like judge.me, against B and the secured assets according to the terms of the contract.

grondilu

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Quote from: db on December 08, 2012, 07:55:04 AM

It is Ripple. Ripple is a great idea that has been around since long before Bitcoin and a good complement to it.

Indeed Ripple and Bitcoin can be complementary. Ripple is to credit what Bitcoin is to money. Banks have so far been dealing with both concepts in the same time and bitcoin challenges them only on the money part. Ripple could challenge them on the other one.

Though I'm not sure how Ripple works exactly, especially regarding whatever can be done whenever someone does not pay his debt. In other words, I wonder if a credit/lending system can work without any kind of recouvrement (sorry I don't know the english for that).

db

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It is Ripple. Ripple is a great idea that has been around since long before Bitcoin and a good complement to it. Wonderful that someone is engaging this much in it. Together with Open Transactions we are getting ourselves some seriously disruptive economic infrastructure.

420

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Quote from: fancy_pants on December 07, 2012, 11:07:46 PM

A block every few seconds instead of every few minutes. The article says this will make POS transactions be confirmed faster.

kickass

fancy_pants

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quarkchain.io

A block every few seconds instead of every few minutes. The article says this will make POS transactions be confirmed faster.

420

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if anyone read; what are his supposed improvements over the bitcoin code?

Maciek

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http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_235/disruptor-chris-larsen-returns-with-a-bitcoin-like-payment-system-1055009-1.html

Topic: 2012-12-07 americanbanker.com - Disruptor Chris Larsen Returns with a Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 3163 times)