2013-08-16 RT - Bitcoin never to become a global currency, nothing backs it up - page 2.

btbrae

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Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 10:51:38 AM

I believe we think alike, but I still don't like the word 'backing' Grin

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In the bread case, you seem to use the term "backing" as a synonym to "what gives this value". Or what is your definition of "backing"?

Yeah I don't think we disagree really. My post was really based upon the perspective of an investor who cares only about keeping value as money, and doesn't care about sinking ships or the like. I think this is one of RT's main audiences in this regard.

I think the definition of "it's not backed by anything" is less important than the intended meaning which is usually along the lines of "it could become worthless" which is a red flag for investors especially fund managers, and this wouldn't be incorrect either. A lot of pro-Bitcoin folk rightly laugh at that of course, but from where I'm sat that is exactly the image of Bitcoin many investors have, and one that has been carved out by the media, along with all the black market rhetoric.

Spaceman_Spiff

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Quote from: btbrae on August 17, 2013, 10:16:29 AM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 07:36:48 AM

I really don't get this whole fixation on "what backs it up?".
What backs up the bread on your plate?

The fact that you can eat it to stay alive.

It is something I often hear from gold bulls and to be honest they are right. If the internet were to go down then your bitcoin would be worthless, just as if the government decides to inflate the currency on the scale of Zimbabwe your fiat becomes worthless.

Currencies have a long history of coming and going and this is why some people especially investors are wary of anything not "backed". Because if the SHTF in any significant way (war, famine, economic collapse) there is still value in things like food, guns, medicine etc, and other investors understand this, even if they are not tin hatters themselves, and consider it when making investment decisions. This affects prices.

I believe we think alike, but I still don't like the word 'backing' Grin

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In the bread case, you seem to use the term "backing" as a synonym to "what gives this value". Or what is your definition of "backing"?
And if we are talking about different scenario's, how much value is there in gold or guns when you are on a sinking boat in the middle of the ocean with no lifeboats? Anything can become useless in some scenarios, so the present value you ascribe to an asset should consider the likeliness of these scenarios, and the value the asset holds in each scenario.

Deafboy

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No need to comment. Just look at her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e__YtgJSRQM
edit: I know, ad hominem. But what the hell I couldn't help myself...

btbrae

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Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 07:36:48 AM

I really don't get this whole fixation on "what backs it up?".
What backs up the bread on your plate?

The fact that you can eat it to stay alive.

It is something I often hear from gold bulls and to be honest they are right. If the internet were to go down then your bitcoin would be worthless, just as if the government decides to inflate the currency on the scale of Zimbabwe your fiat becomes worthless.

Currencies have a long history of coming and going and this is why some people especially investors are wary of anything not "backed". Because if the SHTF in any significant way (war, famine, economic collapse) there is still value in things like food, guns, medicine etc, and other investors understand this, even if they are not tin hatters themselves, and consider it when making investment decisions. This affects prices. There are still several generations that only understand technology enough to a) send email, b) check facebook and c) watch porn and unfortunately those are the generations with the money, for now.

Quote from: HeliKopterBen on August 17, 2013, 10:01:37 AM

The world's default currency for thousands of years, gold, is backed by nothing.

The best answer to a statement like this that I heard was "You give your girlfriend copper rings and I'll give mine gold rings and we'll see who keeps them longer." - Mark Faber

HeliKopterBen

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Quote from: aigeezer on August 17, 2013, 09:23:28 AM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 07:36:48 AM

I really don't get this whole fixation on "what backs it up?".
What backs up the bread on your plate?
Imho, "backing" is a very subjective and vague term, that subtracts from talking about the properties things have.
People apparently need to hear "this money is backed by X", and then they can consider it to be safe. Yah sorry, it's not that simple.

When I was new here I earnestly replied to one of the "what backs it up" threads, making a ponderous claim about the work of the miners blah blah. That drew a Libertarian dogma reply - they threw the book at me, as I recall, not realizing that I already knew all that stuff and was fairly sympathetic to it. The experience led me to a conclusion similar to what you express - "backing" is one of those terms that people like to argue dogmatically about. Meh.

Soon someone will earnestly quote "full faith and credit". Woot!

The world's default currency for thousands of years, gold, is backed by nothing.

aigeezer

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Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 07:36:48 AM

I really don't get this whole fixation on "what backs it up?".
What backs up the bread on your plate?
Imho, "backing" is a very subjective and vague term, that subtracts from talking about the properties things have.
People apparently need to hear "this money is backed by X", and then they can consider it to be safe. Yah sorry, it's not that simple.

When I was new here I earnestly replied to one of the "what backs it up" threads, making a ponderous claim about the work of the miners blah blah. That drew a Libertarian dogma reply - they threw the book at me, as I recall, not realizing that I already knew all that stuff and was fairly sympathetic to it. The experience led me to a conclusion similar to what you express - "backing" is one of those terms that people like to argue dogmatically about. Meh.

Soon someone will earnestly quote "full faith and credit". Woot!

Spaceman_Spiff

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Quote from: cbeast on August 17, 2013, 08:43:12 AM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 07:49:31 AM

Quote from: Birdy on August 17, 2013, 07:43:34 AM

Bitcoin is backed up by Math ^^

That's a nice sound bite, but not much more.

Depends on how deep you read into it.

Is the math behind Clonecoin 42 any less valid?

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on August 17, 2013, 07:49:31 AM

Quote from: Birdy on August 17, 2013, 07:43:34 AM

Bitcoin is backed up by Math ^^

That's a nice sound bite, but not much more.

Depends on how deep you read into it.

Spaceman_Spiff

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Quote from: Birdy on August 17, 2013, 07:43:34 AM

Bitcoin is backed up by Math ^^

That's a nice sound bite, but not much more.

Carlton Banks

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Backed by:

a monopoly on violence v.s. encrypted peer-to-peer computer network

That's the current dichotomy in the "civilized" world

Birdy

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Bitcoin is backed up by Math ^^

Spaceman_Spiff

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I really don't get this whole fixation on "what backs it up?".
What backs up the bread on your plate?
Imho, "backing" is a very subjective and vague term, that subtracts from talking about the properties things have.
People apparently need to hear "this money is backed by X", and then they can consider it to be safe. Yah sorry, it's not that simple.

aigeezer

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Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952

Quote from: freedomno1 on August 16, 2013, 10:45:17 PM

(Or maybe the classroom)

The wall, perhaps. They will fight in many ways. Propaganda doesn't have to be true to be effective.

After all, she has an implicit point. All of "their" currencies are backed by people with guns and BTC is not.

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

(Or maybe the classroom)

HeliKopterBen

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The ONLY thing that matters is the value society places on an asset relative to all other assets at any given point in time.

hmmmstrange

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I feel sad for her.

zeroday

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It's better to be backed by nothing than backed by silly Financial Advisors Grin

superduh

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she's not a smart cookie - i wouldn't want her managing or advising me on anything

bitcoins are the "confederate currency" right.... at least she didn't say something stupid ala tulips

solex

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100 satoshis -> ISO code

Proof of the "Peter Principle", that you can be promoted to a level of incompetence. Margaret Bogenrief advising on finance when, clearly, she should be advised on matters of finance.

http://rt.com/op-edge/bitcoin-global-currency-economy-579/

Topic: 2013-08-16 RT - Bitcoin never to become a global currency, nothing backs it up - page 2. (Read 2696 times)