2013-11-13 Forbes: Sanitizing Bitcoin: Company Wants To Track 'Clean' Bitcoins - page 2.

Arvicco

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Please bear with me

Quote from: justusranvier on November 13, 2013, 07:15:08 PM

Quote from: BitDreams on November 13, 2013, 07:13:03 PM

Why couldn't this be a simple opt in or opt out?

What's going to happen is that every Bitcoin-accepting business in US jurisdiction is going to be told that they participate and enforce this database, or else they'll be prosecuted for violating money transmitter laws.

Yep, no doubt about it - clear as daylight. It's either this, or preventing this vile scheme from ever getting off the ground with a massive shout down and boycott. The choice is yours, Bitcoin community.

E-mail your favorite Bitcoin business(es) if you must. Let them know that if they as much as think about participating, your business goes elsewhere.

And seriously, go to DarkWallet campaign and send them 0.1 BTC. You know you can afford it. It's a damn shame the project that intends to preserve financial liberties of Bitcoin community is struggling to raise 50K USD to fund the development: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet

justusranvier

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Quote from: BitDreams on November 13, 2013, 07:13:03 PM

Why couldn't this be a simple opt in or opt out?

What's going to happen is that every Bitcoin-accepting business in US jurisdiction is going to be told that they participate and enforce this database, or else they'll be prosecuted for violating money transmitter laws.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: BitDreams on November 13, 2013, 07:13:03 PM

Why couldn't this be a simple opt in or opt out?

(shakes head) It is. But, everyone will be forced to opt in eventually, because no-one wants their choices restricted when it comes to money.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Valerian77 on November 13, 2013, 07:03:54 PM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 13, 2013, 06:58:06 PM

Then, all businesses have to comply, ...

Big assault on Bitcoin, make no mistake.

yes for the US citizens. Then I would buy in China and forget about US products. Not because I want to buy illegal things but because I do not want to support a spying country with their 3-letter agencies. Apart from this most products come from China or Taiwan already now.

It's not about what you choose to do with the money, it's about the choices the person who will receive it from you would like. If the Chinese or Taiwanese merchant, or whoever next receives it from them, wants to spend tainted coins in the US, they will be rejected because the coins are on the taint list. No-one wants the hot potato, don't you understand?

BitDreams

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Why couldn't this be a simple opt in or opt out?

Valerian77

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 13, 2013, 06:58:06 PM

Then, all businesses have to comply, ...

Big assault on Bitcoin, make no mistake.

yes for the US citizens. Then I would buy in China and forget about US products. Not because I want to buy illegal things but because I do not want to support a spying country with their 3-letter agencies. Apart from this most products come from China or Taiwan already now.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Valerian77 on November 13, 2013, 06:47:35 PM

Forget them. They will at most scam the US authorities or goverment. Reality is that Bitcoin will spread over the world and China is currently the most surging market. How will they force any Chinese individual to give them their ID ?? What they can achieve at most is advanced regulation for the US customers which cooperate - I am wondering sometimes how much US people let their goverment do to themselves. But even against US citizens who are not willed to cooperate these guys would not be able to do anything - that would be similar to Torrent.

What's the point of creating a coin taint database, which cannot possibly make any significant revenue from anywhere except government funding, and then not using it to enforce some new cryptocurrency taint law?

Then, all businesses have to comply, as the cost of accepting potentially tainted cryptocurrency will be too much to bear. It's receiving money where you're restricted in where you spend it, the network affect of doing this will very gradually tighten around everyone using Bitcoin. People all over the world will have easy access to check the status of the coins they have received or will receive, and will reject people who wish to send from "unregistered" addresses, afraid they will (eventually) be unable to spend them.

Big assault on Bitcoin, make no mistake.

Valerian77

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Forget them. They will at most scam the US authorities or goverment. Reality is that Bitcoin will spread over the world and China is currently the most surging market. How will they force any Chinese individual to give them their ID ?? What they can achieve at most is advanced regulation for the US customers which cooperate - I am wondering sometimes how much US people let their goverment do to themselves. But even against US citizens who are not willed to cooperate these guys would not be able to do anything - that would be similar to Torrent.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: justusranvier on November 13, 2013, 05:36:07 PM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 13, 2013, 05:30:52 PM

Incidentally, this should cause miners some concern; what if this leads to illegalising the use of mined coins if they cannot be associated with a miners "licence"? May as well start making the coins clean at the source, don't you think?

This is an attack on the Bitcoin model, pure and simple.

And a major ASIC manufacture is backing it.

Not as major as they once were. I think the total GH shipped, GH/mm² and GH/W crowns are held by KnC and Bitfury at the moment. Avalon brought their new chip out only a week or two ago, and it still doesn't compete with Bitfury on hashing energy efficiency, and they're both fabricated suing the same node feature tech (55nm).

justusranvier

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 13, 2013, 05:30:52 PM

Incidentally, this should cause miners some concern; what if this leads to illegalising the use of mined coins if they cannot be associated with a miners "licence"? May as well start making the coins clean at the source, don't you think?

This is an attack on the Bitcoin model, pure and simple.

And a major ASIC manufacture is backing it.

Keyser Soze

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 13, 2013, 05:23:23 PM

Did you have access to reputable and accurate figures as to how often your bank infringed on this part of their contract with their customers?

I worked for a small regional bank and was unaware of any intentional misuse of client data. If a bank was intentionally making these violations, I would assume they would hide/disguise that information.

Carlton Banks

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Incidentally, this should cause miners some concern; what if this leads to illegalising the use of mined coins if they cannot be associated with a miners "licence"? May as well start making the coins clean at the source, don't you think?

This is an attack on the Bitcoin model, pure and simple.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Keyser Soze on November 13, 2013, 05:15:16 PM

Quote from: justusranvier on November 13, 2013, 05:10:08 PM

Quote from: Keyser Soze on November 13, 2013, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 13, 2013, 04:41:34 PM

All businesses using this spynet will not reveal it publicly if they don’t want to be boycotted.

Not a lawyer or anything, but wouldn't the business have to disclose that they are sharing your information to a third party?

Not if they are located in the USSA.

I used to work in banking and we were required to give out privacy disclosures (when you opened an account) that stated what we can and cannot do with your information. I doubt that has changed since I left banking earlier this year.

Did you have access to reputable and accurate figures as to how often your bank infringed on this part of their contract with their customers?

Keyser Soze

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Quote from: justusranvier on November 13, 2013, 05:10:08 PM

Quote from: Keyser Soze on November 13, 2013, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 13, 2013, 04:41:34 PM

All businesses using this spynet will not reveal it publicly if they don’t want to be boycotted.

Not a lawyer or anything, but wouldn't the business have to disclose that they are sharing your information to a third party?

Not if they are located in the USSA.

I used to work in banking and we were required to give out privacy disclosures (when you opened an account) that stated what we can and cannot do with your information. I doubt that has changed since I left banking earlier this year.

justusranvier

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Quote from: Keyser Soze on November 13, 2013, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 13, 2013, 04:41:34 PM

All businesses using this spynet will not reveal it publicly if they don’t want to be boycotted.

Not a lawyer or anything, but wouldn't the business have to disclose that they are sharing your information to a third party?

Not if they are located in the USSA.

Keyser Soze

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Quote from: TheButterZone on November 13, 2013, 04:41:34 PM

All businesses using this spynet will not reveal it publicly if they don’t want to be boycotted.

Not a lawyer or anything, but wouldn't the business have to disclose that they are sharing your information to a third party?

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

All businesses using this spynet will not reveal it publicly if they don’t want to be boycotted.

justusranvier

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Quote from: Arvicco on November 13, 2013, 12:27:15 PM

I suppose the CORRECT response of the community should be to BOYCOTT any business that even remotely associates itself with this evil spynet.

Absolutely:

http://bitcoinism.blogspot.com/2013/11/is-it-time-to-boycott-all-us-bitcoin.html

Carlton Banks

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They're also inviting the worst possible outcome by trying to use draconian tactics; people refusing to co-operate with government at all. About any matter. The one thing they've forgotten is how resistant cryptocurrency is to confiscation. So, if a culture developed where people are fined as part of administering "justice" to consumers and retailers that don't comply, alot of people will prefer to keep their money, then move to a less authoritarian country.

The state and the financial sector lose so much from this trend we've started, but I think this sort of thing proves they're scared they may be outright losers. Truth is, they lost as soon as the concept was developed. Paradigm shift, bitches.

zeroday

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So they plan to divide bitcoins to black and white and then make money letting dark guys legalize their btc ?
They probably should contact HSBC who will gladly accept their schemes.

Topic: 2013-11-13 Forbes: Sanitizing Bitcoin: Company Wants To Track 'Clean' Bitcoins - page 2. (Read 4696 times)