Topic: 2013-11-18: Wired: You can't beat politics with technology (Read 2170 times)
Wasn't me!
Which post are you talking about? I didn't delete any posts in this thread. It's not even self moderated.
Someone did, here's the timestamp: Deleted Post « Sent to: TraderTimm on: November 18, 2013, 07:23:07 PM »
If you didn't - fine, I still stand by what I've said concerning politics and technology.
The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!
My understanding of actual pirate culture (meager though it be) is that most pirate communities were strictly democratic. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?
The part of pirating where they invade another ship seems a little undemocratic from the point of view of the crew and charterer of said ship. Don't know if that surpasses the burden of proof for evidence.... although that is also the working definition of "pirate"
So the United States, by virtue of pillaging (e.g.) Iraq, is not a democratic republic?
Yeah, cos the USA invaded the Iraq with the direct help of the whole population of the country. And they all sailed to Iraq on a pirates galleon. No.
Also, while I am neither very familiar with the Pirate Party (some study of their principles notwithstanding), it seems to me that they are trying to subvert the current political order of the society in which they live. I somehow doubt the Pirate Party has invited the entire Swedish electorate to set the principles of the party itself.
"Fight the system from within"? I've heard and seen examples of that before, and it's rarely not BS
The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!
did anyone say pirate party? rawr!
The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!
My understanding of actual pirate culture (meager though it be) is that most pirate communities were strictly democratic. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?
The part of pirating where they invade another ship seems a little undemocratic from the point of view of the crew and charterer of said ship. Don't know if that surpasses the burden of proof for evidence.... although that is also the working definition of "pirate"
So the United States, by virtue of pillaging (e.g.) Iraq, is not a democratic republic?
ETA: In case my point is lost, invading societies _never_ invite the invaded societies to vote. Accordingly, I thought your 'Pirates don't vote' comment to be rather nonsensical in this context.
Also, while I am neither very familiar with the Pirate Party (some study of their principles notwithstanding), it seems to me that they are trying to subvert the current political order of the society in which they live. I somehow doubt the Pirate Party has invited the entire Swedish electorate to set the principles of the party itself.
Sunde: You can't beat politics with technology
Bitcoin: Challenge accepted.
Bitcoin: Challenge accepted.
Yup. You'll just have to pardon us for continuing to opt out of the system and to resist it through all peaceful means possible, including technologically.
Think it's useless? Think it's dumb and won't work? Think it's immature? Too bad. It's still going to continue.
Must be tough to not be able to get others to ignore the gun in the room... especially as they actively seek means to neutralize it. Tough indeed.
Quote
You can use technology to surpass and route around politics.
To say otherwise is a pretty defeatist attitude that goes against historical precedent
Which post are you talking about? I didn't delete any posts in this thread. It's not even self moderated.
Well, seeing how Mike Hearn has deleted my previous post about his back-bending "discussions" about certain topics, perhaps this one will survive the Hearninator's "DEL" key.
You can use technology to surpass and route around politics. The ones claiming otherwise are either co-opted already, or have insufficient capacity to understand that rule of law and politics are formed by the citizens themselves. We are not beholden to any given system, rather, the system is supposed to conform to what the public wants.
When it doesn't, that's where things get messy. So by suggesting that we just "take it" and not try to achieve precisely what we want to, all I can hear is someone making excuses because they're too deeply dependent on the system in general. That will always disqualify you in my book, because it means you didn't have any principles worth standing up for to begin with, since you're so eager to cede them to political pressure.
So, if you can take the truth - let this post stand. If you can't - delete it like the others Mike, and I'll make sure people know that you did.
Your choice.
You can use technology to surpass and route around politics. The ones claiming otherwise are either co-opted already, or have insufficient capacity to understand that rule of law and politics are formed by the citizens themselves. We are not beholden to any given system, rather, the system is supposed to conform to what the public wants.
When it doesn't, that's where things get messy. So by suggesting that we just "take it" and not try to achieve precisely what we want to, all I can hear is someone making excuses because they're too deeply dependent on the system in general. That will always disqualify you in my book, because it means you didn't have any principles worth standing up for to begin with, since you're so eager to cede them to political pressure.
So, if you can take the truth - let this post stand. If you can't - delete it like the others Mike, and I'll make sure people know that you did.
Your choice.
You can't beat technology with politics.
And no matter how hard they might try, they won't be able to beat math with politics, either...
Quote
The Indiana Pi Bill is the popular name for bill #246 of the 1897 sitting of the Indiana General Assembly, one of the most famous attempts to establish mathematical truth by legislative fiat. Despite that name, the main result claimed by the bill is a method to square the circle, rather than to establish a certain value for the mathematical constant π (pi), the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. However, the bill does contain text that appears to dictate various incorrect values of π, such as 3.2 (π = 3.14159265...).
The bill never became law, due to the intervention of a mathematics professor who happened to be present in the legislature.
The impossibility of squaring the circle using only compass and straightedge, suspected since ancient times, was rigorously proven in 1882 by Ferdinand von Lindemann. Better approximations of π than those inferred from the bill have been known since ancient times.
The bill never became law, due to the intervention of a mathematics professor who happened to be present in the legislature.
The impossibility of squaring the circle using only compass and straightedge, suspected since ancient times, was rigorously proven in 1882 by Ferdinand von Lindemann. Better approximations of π than those inferred from the bill have been known since ancient times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
You can't beat technology with politics.
The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!
My understanding of actual pirate culture (meager though it be) is that most pirate communities were strictly democratic. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?
The part of pirating where they invade another ship seems a little undemocratic from the point of view of the crew and charterer of said ship. Don't know if that surpasses the burden of proof for evidence.... although that is also the working definition of "pirate"
The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!
My understanding of actual pirate culture (meager though it be) is that most pirate communities were strictly democratic. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?
Sunde: You can't beat politics with technology
Return of serve......
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21628862.000-lethal-weapons-and-the-evolution-of-civilisation.html
It's of zero surprise that someone who lives in Sweden might be OK with things as they are.
You find the exact same level of life satisfaction in eskimos who spend all day fishing in harsh tundra environments, or Indians who live in tribal mountain areas miles away from "civilisation".
Surveys from The Economist rarely take account of these types of communities, and yet what comparative similarities do happy, fulfilled Danish people share with happy, fulfilled Amazonian tribes-people? I think these disparate peoples definitely share one thing; they live under governance that tends towards the more self-determined end of the scale. And these tribespeople sure are a happy, fulfilled crowd.
It's the press section, people can post links to stories here without holding an opinion on them.
But here's an opinion for you: Sunde obviously feels his life under the status quo is pretty good. You don't have to be a buddhist to be content with the world. He lives in Sweden. Sweden is the opposite of dystopia: it's rich, civilised, they just closed a bunch of prisons because they don't have enough prisoners anymore, the Economist has ranked it once of the best governed countries in the world, the furniture is top notch, the people are tolerant and the women are beautiful.
It's of zero surprise that someone who lives in Sweden might be OK with things as they are.
But here's an opinion for you: Sunde obviously feels his life under the status quo is pretty good. You don't have to be a buddhist to be content with the world. He lives in Sweden. Sweden is the opposite of dystopia: it's rich, civilised, they just closed a bunch of prisons because they don't have enough prisoners anymore, the Economist has ranked it once of the best governed countries in the world, the furniture is top notch, the people are tolerant and the women are beautiful.
It's of zero surprise that someone who lives in Sweden might be OK with things as they are.
Pretty much nailed it. In sweden many view the pirate party as armchair anarchists.. It's easy to 'go against the system' when you can do it from the comfort of a liberal welfare state where almost any dissent is well tolerated... Including the torching of cars and government buildings these days.
Sunde: You can't beat politics with technology
Bitcoin: Challenge accepted.
Bitcoin: Challenge accepted.
But here's an opinion for you: Sunde obviously feels his life under the status quo is pretty good. You don't have to be a buddhist to be content with the world. He lives in Sweden. Sweden is the opposite of dystopia: it's rich, civilised, they just closed a bunch of prisons because they don't have enough prisoners anymore
Yes, Sweden is clearly a paradise. But that's just my opinion. And that's ok, as long as I don't have to pay taxes for someone else's "opinion". 
Love & Greets!!
oOo
It's the press section, people can post links to stories here without holding an opinion on them.
But here's an opinion for you: Sunde obviously feels his life under the status quo is pretty good. You don't have to be a buddhist to be content with the world. He lives in Sweden. Sweden is the opposite of dystopia: it's rich, civilised, they just closed a bunch of prisons because they don't have enough prisoners anymore, the Economist has ranked it once of the best governed countries in the world, the furniture is top notch, the people are tolerant and the women are beautiful.
It's of zero surprise that someone who lives in Sweden might be OK with things as they are.
But here's an opinion for you: Sunde obviously feels his life under the status quo is pretty good. You don't have to be a buddhist to be content with the world. He lives in Sweden. Sweden is the opposite of dystopia: it's rich, civilised, they just closed a bunch of prisons because they don't have enough prisoners anymore, the Economist has ranked it once of the best governed countries in the world, the furniture is top notch, the people are tolerant and the women are beautiful.
It's of zero surprise that someone who lives in Sweden might be OK with things as they are.
Sorry Mike, but I have to strongly disagree with that statement here.
You realise I was just quoting the article, right?
I find it relevant given recent discussions but don't have much opinion on it beyond that. I wasn't a fan of TPB though.
"you are not going to stop the police from chasing you just because you have the best encryption in the world."
and:
"Sunde is a firm believer in taxation, since it allows communities to build shared infrastructure"
and:
"The distrust of the political system is unhealthy"
and, and, and...
It's as if every second sentence somehow confirms the Status quo, rather than to reject it. Unfortunately it appears like Sunde has become one of the "bad guys" now. He is exactly one of those we must fear most. A young, smart, sympathetic tech-guy like him is a far bigger danger to freedom & liberty than any polititian in a suit. He can do far more damage if people start listening to him or take him seriously.
Since you weren't clearly distancing yourself from the article, I just assumed (perhaps wrongfully), that you would agree with it.
Glad to see you aren't!
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