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Topic: [2014-04-29] ‘Dark Wallet’ Is About to Make Bitcoin Money Laundering Easier... (Read 5787 times)

legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1011
Does any nation have a constitutional clause guaranteeing a right to anonymity? If not, then why is it more important than privacy?

Some mention a need for anonymity (not just privacy) with certain operations such as voting.  I don't think many talk much about anonymity, but then many such documents were written long before the surveillance apparatus we have today was established.

Part of the reason real anonymity is important is that these days, privacy is often breached when it should not be.  I believe that as we head further into the digital age, the distinction between "anonymous" and "private" will continue to grow, and the distinction between "private" and "public" will continue to shrink.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
Does any nation have a constitutional clause guaranteeing a right to anonymity? If not, then why is it more important than privacy?
newbie
Activity: 50
Merit: 0
no one will know who you are when sending via Dark Wallet?
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 253
Is this a good thing for Bitcoin?  I would think things like this are only going to cause more problems when it comes to legislation and the legal use of Bitcoin.  Sad

This is a great thing for Bitcoin; there's a great need for privacy in our society where everything can be monitered, and where this data can be used against an individual that does anything which the irrational governments do not deem to be acceptable. I'd be very glad if Bitcoin was able to successfully and easily fulfill this need for privacy towards a person's use of his wealth, just like TOR does for his online activities. No legislation can destroy anything that fulfills an important need.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
Time is on our side, yes it is!
I personally care about the need to be anonymous if there is someone infringing on my privacy rights.  I think there will be a real need for this and support the project even though it has a negative label.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?

I don't think weed is threatened with a death sentance in most countries. Sure in some but not most. And cash is more anonymous than bitcoin if you want it to be.
Cash isn't anonymous. Don't conflate anonymity with fungibility. Besides, cash may be banned for large purchases soon.

If I meet someone on the street and give them some money that seems pretty annoymous.
Not if I'm a cop and you are doing something bad.

Maybe I'll leave it at a location for him to pick up then. You can probably say nothing is anonymous if you want to nitpick.
That's not what I'm saying. Cash is private, not anonymous. You can increase privacy by risking control and dropping off the money, but you may lose it completely. OTOH, the person picking up the money is then at risk if you are the cop.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?

I don't think weed is threatened with a death sentance in most countries. Sure in some but not most. And cash is more anonymous than bitcoin if you want it to be.
Cash isn't anonymous. Don't conflate anonymity with fungibility. Besides, cash may be banned for large purchases soon.

If I meet someone on the street and give them some money that seems pretty annoymous.
Not if I'm a cop and you are doing something bad.

Maybe I'll leave it at a location for him to pick up then. You can probably say nothing is anonymous if you want to nitpick.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?

I don't think weed is threatened with a death sentance in most countries. Sure in some but not most. And cash is more anonymous than bitcoin if you want it to be.
Cash isn't anonymous. Don't conflate anonymity with fungibility. Besides, cash may be banned for large purchases soon.

If I meet someone on the street and give them some money that seems pretty annoymous.
Not if I'm a cop and you are doing something bad.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?

I don't think weed is threatened with a death sentance in most countries. Sure in some but not most. And cash is more anonymous than bitcoin if you want it to be.
Cash isn't anonymous. Don't conflate anonymity with fungibility. Besides, cash may be banned for large purchases soon.

If I meet someone on the street and give them some money that seems pretty annoymous.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
Isn't the developer shooting his own foot by openly admitting he wants his wallet to be used for illegal activities and black market?

It's nice that he has developed anonymous wallet but his statements give Feds and government a new opportunity of opening fire on Bitcoin.

Nor does he deny that Dark Wallet might enable heinous crimes...
He doesn't say "he wants his wallet to be used for illegal activities":
He is acknowledging that when everyone has privacy, some people will use it for crimes.

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”  ~Benjamin Franklin
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 1313
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

I am not sure if you say this thread, but it is quite interesting:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjoin-bitcoin-privacy-for-the-real-world-279249

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?

I don't think weed is threatened with a death sentance in most countries. Sure in some but not most. And cash is more anonymous than bitcoin if you want it to be.
Cash isn't anonymous. Don't conflate anonymity with fungibility. Besides, cash may be banned for large purchases soon.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?

I don't think weed is threatened with a death sentance in most countries. Sure in some but not most. And cash is more anonymous than bitcoin if you want it to be.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
Why is marijuana banned with a death sentence in most countries? Bitcoin threatens banks the same way herbs threatens Big Pharm. Bitcoin the payment system doesn't threaten law enforcement any more than PayPal, but Bitcoin the anonymous currency does. See the difference?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?

Why how and who would outright ban them?
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I don't get Dark Wallet. Few people care about anonymity, but many people fear it will empower criminality. The blowback to Dark Wallets may be outright banning of PoW coins. Maybe the developers are bullish on PoS?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
Isn't the developer shooting his own foot by openly admitting he wants his wallet to be used for illegal activities and black market?

Yes, but strong ethics, courage, and convection often lead to this.  One extreme example to make the point clear: the tank man of Tiananmen Square fame really shot himself in the foot when he decided to block a chain of advancing tanks rather than go home and watch some TV.


Understand; however he could have made his point just by releasing the wallet. He didn't have to BRAG about the illegal usage. Its like bragging about the crimes you committed when the feds are arresting you.

"Anything you say can be used against you. You have the right to remain silent" Smiley


It is important to note that there are two main people involved and that one is doing more advocacy, one more coding.  Amir Taaki doing the coding (Britain), and Cody Wilson (US) doing advocacy, iirc.  

im 100% behind Amir Taaki ... even if he is a bit incoherent on stage!

Well I'm glad he isn't doing all the talking then and is sticking to being more behind the code.
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 1313
Isn't the developer shooting his own foot by openly admitting he wants his wallet to be used for illegal activities and black market?

Yes, but strong ethics, courage, and convection often lead to this.  One extreme example to make the point clear: the tank man of Tiananmen Square fame really shot himself in the foot when he decided to block a chain of advancing tanks rather than go home and watch some TV.


Understand; however he could have made his point just by releasing the wallet. He didn't have to BRAG about the illegal usage. Its like bragging about the crimes you committed when the feds are arresting you.

"Anything you say can be used against you. You have the right to remain silent" Smiley


It is important to note that there are two main people involved and that one is doing more advocacy, one more coding.  Amir Taaki doing the coding (Britain), and Cody Wilson (US) doing advocacy, iirc.  The difference between the two jurisdictions and the two roles is important since it has lots of non-illegal uses too - and the definition of illegal depends on your jurisdiction of course.  It is more difficult for the US to attack the advocacy portion due to the Constitution and 1st Amendment.

I don't know what will happen, if anything, to them, but if Amir is concentrating on the privacy aspects and Cody is doing the advocacy it seems to make it more difficult for the authorities.

It is an important project.

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
Don't think that Government organizations won't be using it also, the CIA (Americas largest drug smuggling cartel) will love this  Wink Cheesy

I don't think they'll need to use it. They seem to be able to launder money just fine.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Watch out for the "Neg-Rep-Dogie-Police".....
Don't think that Government organizations won't be using it also, the CIA (Americas largest drug smuggling cartel) will love this  Wink Cheesy
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