Topic: [2015-03-13] IBM and Federal Reserve want to create a Bitcoin Knock-Off (Read 2821 times)

Yes, there are currency exchanges around the world. The exchange rates are set just like the exchange rates of cryptos, mostly by supply and demand (buyer and seller) but there is some influence by media, some by the trading systems (bots, mgmt), and some by regulators.

This is just the technical solution, but will the central banks, who create and control such a Coin in general allow speculation? Or will they just set the exchange rate to their national currencies (similar to the IMF's SDRs)?

Gold was never "abolished" and still remains the most widely accepted tradable currency in the world.

When the currencies were in a gold standard, you could demand gold for your paper note. Nowadays for a paper note you get just another paper note from the central bank, no gold. The central banks abolished the backing of their monetary base with gold.

You can always buy gold in free market with your paper notes. Since you are not rushing to buy up gold with all your piles of paper notes, not that many people would want to actually exchange a paper note for a fixed amount of gold...

cbeast

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Quote from: bitbouillion on March 15, 2015, 11:48:34 PM

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

Essentially, banks can't run a Bitcoin-like network because they have no incentive to work. They want only free money because they feel entitled. There are only two ways to get free stuff and that's by stealing it or magic. I believe that IBM doesn't have magic wands. If I may be so bold, it will be a craftily worded scheme that belies a pyramid scheme that rewards banks at the expense of the users. It will not solve the Byzantine General's Problem and it will not be trustless. It will not be peer to peer.

Also, because no cryptographer worth his salt would work for such a scheme, it will not be secure. Samsung should be running away from IBM as fast as possible.

Armis

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Yes, there are currency exchanges around the world. The exchange rates are set just like the exchange rates of cryptos, mostly by supply and demand (buyer and seller) but there is some influence by media, some by the trading systems (bots, mgmt), and some by regulators.

This is just the technical solution, but will the central banks, who create and control such a Coin in general allow speculation? Or will they just set the exchange rate to their national currencies (similar to the IMF's SDRs)?

Gold was never "abolished" and still remains the most widely accepted tradable currency in the world.

When the currencies were in a gold standard, you could demand gold for your paper note. Nowadays for a paper note you get just another paper note from the central bank, no gold. The central banks abolished the backing of their monetary base with gold.

You ask who WILL do what, of course I don't know that, but since the SEC and FINRA are the police of the current fiancial systems on behalf of govt I see no reason why their powers won't be further extended to cover the additional areas.

As for the gold standard, yes we went off of the gold standard when it became evident that we could achieve more with faith and promise than glittering gold.

bitbouillion

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Yes, there are currency exchanges around the world. The exchange rates are set just like the exchange rates of cryptos, mostly by supply and demand (buyer and seller) but there is some influence by media, some by the trading systems (bots, mgmt), and some by regulators.

This is just the technical solution, but will the central banks, who create and control such a Coin in general allow speculation? Or will they just set the exchange rate to their national currencies (similar to the IMF's SDRs)?

Quote from: bitbouillion on March 15, 2015, 04:52:28 PM

Gold was never "abolished" and still remains the most widely accepted tradable currency in the world.

When the currencies were in a gold standard, you could demand gold for your paper note. Nowadays for a paper note you get just another paper note from the central bank, no gold. The central banks abolished the backing of their monetary base with gold.

Armis

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Central banks can create a Globalcoin, but how they wanna deal with currency fluctuations? Will be there exchanges around the world, where it is traded or will be there a global committee setting the exchange rates?

The other global currency before Bitcoin was gold but was abolished, declared illegal or a barbarous relic.

Bretton Woods failed and who the heck uses SRDs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

Long before there were currency exchanges for cryptocurrencies there were currency exchanges for fiat -- they still exist.
In order to better appreciate the process, make the distinction between currency as a commodity and currency as a currency.
Currency as a commodity is the merchandise that you receive or trade away, where as currency as a currency is the means of exchange of good or services.

The commodity's value is ever changing whereas the currency's value remains the same (face value). As a commodity BTC is worth about $280 however as a currency bitcoin is worth 1 bitc. As a commodity the USD may be worth .70 GBP (www.xe.com) however as a currency it's worth is 1USD, 4 quarters, or 100 pennies.

Yes, there are currency exchanges around the world. The exchange rates are set just like the exchange rates of cryptos, mostly by supply and demand (buyer and seller) but there is some influence by media, some by the trading systems (bots, mgmt), and some by regulators.

Gold was never "abolished" and still remains the most widely accepted tradable currency in the world. Salt was a major global currency for a very long time too.

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Quote from: bitbouillion on March 15, 2015, 04:52:28 PM

Central banks can create a Globalcoin, but how they wanna deal with currency fluctuations? Will be there exchanges around the world, where it is traded or will be there a global committee setting the exchange rates?

The other global currency before Bitcoin was gold but was abolished, declared illegal or a barbarous relic.

Bretton Woods failed and who the heck uses SRDs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

SDR's are only used by countries for now. If we have multicurrency failure the IMF may step in and each of the national currencies may be "backed" by SDR's since they have the lowest current leverage at about 3:1 while other countries like the US are 70-80:1.

bitbouillion

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Central banks can create a Globalcoin, but how they wanna deal with currency fluctuations? Will be there exchanges around the world, where it is traded or will be there a global committee setting the exchange rates?

The other global currency before Bitcoin was gold but was abolished, declared illegal or a barbarous relic.

Bretton Woods failed and who the heck uses SRDs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

Armis

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Quote from: Hazir on March 15, 2015, 01:35:41 PM

Quote from: Armis on March 15, 2015, 01:03:35 PM

Quote from: Hazir on March 15, 2015, 12:55:44 PM

Quote from: Armis on March 15, 2015, 01:03:35 PM

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

However I indicated that: "IBM has their own centralized network" larger and far more powerful (financially, politically, and electronically) than that of btc.

Oh. They have a huge network and power behind and that is one of my main concerns. Can IBM effectively copy bitcoin’s blockchain, and keep it as secure? Do you want them to create their 'altcoin' and then use their fiat centralized digital money or you will stay with decentralized bitcoin?

I want both of those option, plus all other honest coins, and more centralized blockchains for big corps so they can reduce expensese. As things get easier to do life gets cheaper to live. Decentralization enables the world to dwarf any centralized super power however when that decentralized entity keeps hurting itself with scams and schemes it serves no one any good.

Bring integrity to the world of CC.

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Quote from: Hazir on March 15, 2015, 12:55:44 PM

Quote from: Hazir on March 15, 2015, 12:55:44 PM

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

However I indicated that: "IBM has their own centralized network" larger and far more powerful (financially, politically, and electronically) than that of btc.

Oh. They have a huge network and power behind and that is one of my main concerns. Can IBM effectively copy bitcoin’s blockchain, and keep it as secure? Do you want them to create their 'altcoin' and then use their fiat centralized digital money or you will stay with decentralized bitcoin?

Armis

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I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

However I indicated that: "IBM has their own centralized network" larger and far more powerful (financially, politically, and electronically) than that of btc.

Hazir

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I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

Armis

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Quote from: db on March 14, 2015, 04:29:49 PM

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

deisik

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Transferring value by assigning it to new owners in a ledger has been done for thousands of years. Bitcoin is new because for the first time this can be done without a trusted ledger keeper. Technologically a centralised ledger is much more efficient. Bitcoin can compete because no real life ledger keepers can actually be trusted. They are too vulnerable to coercion and corruption

I think it has much in common with the old argument of planned economy vs market economy. At first look it seems that planned economy, in which decisions regarding production and investment are made by a central authority, should be more efficient, but, as it often happens, the devil is in the details and the best-laid plans of men go astray...

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Quote from: Armis on March 15, 2015, 03:04:21 AM

Quote from: Hazir on March 14, 2015, 10:20:00 PM

Quote from: Armis on March 15, 2015, 03:04:21 AM

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks. That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof.

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

Funny you should point out my 'copy and paste' but the authors are essentially repeating the same story over and over again, so we have different conversations on the same subject that I have the same reply about. But to answer your question directly, yes I read the article; no, IBM isn't creating another altcoin, they are essentially only taking the bitcoin blockchain technology.

As I indicated in another thread, the greatest value about bitcoin is as follows: the community, the blockchain, the node network, the code, and the coin. IBM has their own centralized network, and doesn't care about our community, code, or coin they just want our blockchain technology. So there's no competition for the cryptocurrency world, if anything its a blurring, or erasing, of the lines between corp and crypto, which is a good thing for all involved.

When the banks, insurance, legal, and govt start using blockchains to store content things will be faster, cheaper, and easier to store.

good point.

a centralized and unlimited coin would be a big faliure anyway.

cbeast

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Quote from: Hazir on March 14, 2015, 10:20:00 PM

Quote from: Hazir on March 14, 2015, 10:20:00 PM

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks. That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof.

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

Funny you should point out my 'copy and paste' but the authors are essentially repeating the same story over and over again, so we have different conversations on the same subject that I have the same reply about. But to answer your question directly, yes I read the article; no, IBM isn't creating another altcoin, they are essentially only taking the bitcoin blockchain technology.

As I indicated in another thread, the greatest value about bitcoin is as follows: the community, the blockchain, the node network, the code, and the coin. IBM has their own centralized network, and doesn't care about our community, code, or coin they just want our blockchain technology. So there's no competition for the cryptocurrency world, if anything its a blurring, or erasing, of the lines between corp and crypto, which is a good thing for all involved.

When the banks, insurance, legal, and govt start using blockchains to store content things will be faster, cheaper, and easier to store.

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Armis

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I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks. That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof.

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

Funny you should point out my 'copy and paste' but the authors are essentially repeating the same story over and over again, so we have different conversations on the same subject that I have the same reply about. But to answer your question directly, yes I read the article; no, IBM isn't creating another altcoin, they are essentially only taking the bitcoin blockchain technology.

As I indicated in another thread, the greatest value about bitcoin is as follows: the community, the blockchain, the node network, the code, and the coin. IBM has their own centralized network, and doesn't care about our community, code, or coin they just want our blockchain technology. So there's no competition for the cryptocurrency world, if anything its a blurring, or erasing, of the lines between corp and crypto, which is a good thing for all involved.

When the banks, insurance, legal, and govt start using blockchains to store content things will be faster, cheaper, and easier to store.

Hazir

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