LOL @ the submissive beta males claiming Coinbase is not legally liable. Here is a highly reputed legal scholar asserting boldly that Coinbase is courting serious legal trouble:
http://fortune.com/2017/07/31/bitcoin-fork-coinbase/
For the umpteenth time, warning users beforehand of an illegal or unethical move DOES NOT justify the move. Bleat all you want about stubborn users. The move is not justified, legally or otherwise.
Coinbase will get sued hard and it will be very costly to defend. The point missed is that Coinbase could have simply worked to give customers their forked coins. Even if it was spelled out as a warning, it will not remove liability.
For cryptocurrencies to gain mainstream adoption, they will have to be more user-friendly. That's the reality. With relatively sophisticated technological or financial instruments, the public will be cut some slack in the courts, no matter the huffing and puffing here by self-appointed experts or message board heroes.
Listen to the legal scholars.
/rant
Topic: 2017-08-01 Coinbase/GDAX Biggest Crypto Fraud in history? - page 2. (Read 4537 times)
Coin base s
David Farmer
Jul 28
Wanted to clarify for customers asking if Coinbase is keeping bitcoin cash for ourselves.
Coinbase does not intend to interact with the Bitcoin Cash blockchain, or to access bitcoin cash (BCC). In order to safely and securely access bitcoin cash, Coinbase would need to undertake a process of designing and testing significant changes to our systems — including hot and cold storage. This is one of the core reasons customers will not be able to withdraw bitcoin cash after the fork on August 1st, 2017.
If this decision were to change in the future and we were to access bitcoin cash, we would distribute to customers bitcoin cash (BCC) associated with bitcoin (BTC) balances at the time of the fork on August 1st, 2017. Coinbase would not keep the bitcoin cash associated with customer bitcoin (BTC) balances for ourselves.aid if BCH survives they will issue them to us, not sell them or throw them away.
David Farmer
Jul 28
Wanted to clarify for customers asking if Coinbase is keeping bitcoin cash for ourselves.
Coinbase does not intend to interact with the Bitcoin Cash blockchain, or to access bitcoin cash (BCC). In order to safely and securely access bitcoin cash, Coinbase would need to undertake a process of designing and testing significant changes to our systems — including hot and cold storage. This is one of the core reasons customers will not be able to withdraw bitcoin cash after the fork on August 1st, 2017.
If this decision were to change in the future and we were to access bitcoin cash, we would distribute to customers bitcoin cash (BCC) associated with bitcoin (BTC) balances at the time of the fork on August 1st, 2017. Coinbase would not keep the bitcoin cash associated with customer bitcoin (BTC) balances for ourselves.aid if BCH survives they will issue them to us, not sell them or throw them away.
I don't think it's grounds for claiming Fraud, but it is grounds (if you haven't determined this already) for keeping your BTC off exchanges and on wallets where you control the private keys.
so coinbase/gdax didnt gave out bch or bcc to btc holders...so where did the bch/bcc went ? to coinbase pocket?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
Will Coinbase keep BCC coins for itself?
No.
Coinbase does not intend to support or interact with the new blockchain in any way. If this were to change, Coinbase would make those coins available for customers to withdraw, not keep them.
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2851863-bitcoin-cash---frequently-asked-questions
They informed everyone with enough time for people to take their coins out.
Same as poloniex, they also didn't issue anything.
I don't think it could be counted as a fraud, because it's not like those exchanges claimed that you are going to receive the bch tokens and you didn't receive.
Poloniex specifically claimed that they are going to do whatever they want to do and they can not guarantee anything.
Anyway I believe that they are going to sell those tokens and get the profit directly into their pockets.
I don't think it could be counted as a fraud, because it's not like those exchanges claimed that you are going to receive the bch tokens and you didn't receive.
Poloniex specifically claimed that they are going to do whatever they want to do and they can not guarantee anything.
Anyway I believe that they are going to sell those tokens and get the profit directly into their pockets.
Well, if they do, no one can really complain. The exchanges were very upfront about their plans going into the fork. I think a lot of people didn't pay attention, or figured BCC would be worthless and/or dead right out the gate. Now people are feeling like they missed out.
so coinbase/gdax didnt gave out bch or bcc to btc holders...so where did the bch/bcc went ? to coinbase pocket?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
Fraud implies a wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. Coinbase not only let the people who use them know that they would not be supporting BCC, but they did so as soon as they were aware of the fork.
Coinbase had notices and a huge banner over their Overview for days that told everyone that they would not be supporting BCC and even warned about delays to support all the movement of BTC from the wallets to other places. It would be an interesting twist to accuse them of robbery or fraud of they made everyone aware of this fact well before the fork. If they had not notified anyone, and then after the 1st or later then told those who used their wallet of the fact that they were not going to support BCC then yes it would have been fraudulent and a huge fiasco.
Granted, if a person was not paying attention, had their head in the sand and did not log into Coinbase for the last week then i can see how they might feel robbed. How is this Coinbase intentionally screwing them though? I don't believe it is. I can only imagine that there are people that were ignorant enough to not monitor their investments and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, but this is solely their fault and no one else.
Coinbase as already confirmed by other members had issued a warning about their not being able to make us available bitcoin cash and if we wish we could move our coins to some other wallet so it's not their fault but ours not to do the needful when we were supposed to so it's no use crying over the spilt milk. It's not just coinbase but a lot of other exchanges also aren't supporting bitcoin cash and almost all of them informed their users well in advance of this. So as long as they did what was supposed of them and given us a choice to move out our coins if we wished so we can't complain. It's another thing that they made good money with it all for themselves.
Same as poloniex, they also didn't issue anything.
I don't think it could be counted as a fraud, because it's not like those exchanges claimed that you are going to receive the bch tokens and you didn't receive.
Poloniex specifically claimed that they are going to do whatever they want to do and they can not guarantee anything.
Anyway I believe that they are going to sell those tokens and get the profit directly into their pockets.
I don't think it could be counted as a fraud, because it's not like those exchanges claimed that you are going to receive the bch tokens and you didn't receive.
Poloniex specifically claimed that they are going to do whatever they want to do and they can not guarantee anything.
Anyway I believe that they are going to sell those tokens and get the profit directly into their pockets.
I already read that someone in Florida is going to sue them (an attorney named Priyanka Ghosh-Murthy, from Miami). So they are in big trouble now. What they are doing is plain unethical. Suppose you are a share broker and your client has been allotted bonus shares. Will it be ethical for you to withhold these bonus shares from your clients, saying that you don't agree with the policies of the listed firm?
BCC isn't Bitcoin. People with bitcoins on deposit aren't entitled to anything, since they don't control the private keys.
This seems like a real longshot legally. Put it this way: I could make a fork of Bitcoin right now. If I have some BTC on Coinbase, I can sue them for not paying me coins on my fork, too? Of course not!
The BCC fork was totally rushed. It was reasonable for Coinbase not to pay out on that timeframe. And they gave people plenty of warning, too.
so coinbase/gdax didnt gave out bch or bcc to btc holders...so where did the bch/bcc went ? to coinbase pocket?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
There have been heaps of warning saying to move your Bitcoin so you have access to your private keys, so why didn't you listen? Coinbase were super clear to the users so that they wouldn't be receiving and Bitcoin cash since they don't have the private keys and all of the Bitcoin cash would go into their own account. Most people just swapped wallets but I am sure a bunch of people like you didn't and now you are paying for it.
It isn't fraud, they declared it and most people swapped wallets when they had the chance anyway, but Coinbase should still be kind and give maybe 60 percent of thier BCC away to the users.
It does suck and coinbase/gdax should give back users their BCH/BCC even it it cant be stored there. However, for Months we have all been warned to pull btc out of exchanges and online wallets so this should have not happened in the first place.
I already read that someone in Florida is going to sue them (an attorney named Priyanka Ghosh-Murthy, from Miami). So they are in big trouble now. What they are doing is plain unethical. Suppose you are a share broker and your client has been allotted bonus shares. Will it be ethical for you to withhold these bonus shares from your clients, saying that you don't agree with the policies of the listed firm?
It all depends upon the jurisdiction,since coinbase is located in California it will be interesting to know what the outcome will be, what if they might come up with a technical unfeasibility theory in front of the court that could jeopardize the entire companies security and they have already given the warning to the users that they wont be getting the coins if you are holding your coins in the event of a split, just my assumption. 
I already read that someone in Florida is going to sue them (an attorney named Priyanka Ghosh-Murthy, from Miami). So they are in big trouble now. What they are doing is plain unethical. Suppose you are a share broker and your client has been allotted bonus shares. Will it be ethical for you to withhold these bonus shares from your clients, saying that you don't agree with the policies of the listed firm?
so coinbase/gdax didnt gave out bch or bcc to btc holders...so where did the bch/bcc went ? to coinbase pocket?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
From what i understand they have given out their statement about what they are going to do and what is the use of crying about it now,everyone had plenty of opportunity to move out your coins and still you did not do that and yes it is a form of making some very huge profit but they have already informed about that earlier. is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
Robbery and fraud will be only after these coins will be sold. I think their implementation will be a big problem. Such a panic in the market could not attract the cheaters, but their victims, the people become voluntary. They're not robbers. The more of these scams the more loyal bitcoin people.
OP does have a point, though. Bitcoin Cash technically belongs to the Bitcoin owners - NOT Coinbase.
I hope Coinbase does the right thing and at least gives 80% of BCH to the rightful owners.
I heard poloniex is next with being looked and inspected into.
They went offline last night and was off for atleast 4 hours without explaining or notifying their users.
We will see though.
They went offline last night and was off for atleast 4 hours without explaining or notifying their users.
We will see though.
so coinbase/gdax didnt gave out bch or bcc to btc holders...so where did the bch/bcc went ? to coinbase pocket?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
Of course it went to Coinbase's pocket! Those bitcoins do have private keys and since Coinbase doesn't offer private keys to their customers it's Coinbase that owns the private keys for all their assets (coins) under management.
Yeah it's a pretty shady or brilliant move, depending on your perspective. Coinbase gets the opportunity of BCC upside while avoiding the hassle of having to manage a new coin on their books. There could be some really sound business (sensible) reasons that led for the decision.
And you can't really call it robbery or fraud when Coinbase clearly announced to the world (and their customers directly) that they would not be offering BCC post-fork to any of their customers. They offered a date and time at which people would need to withdraw their bitcoin AND they encouraged people to withdraw their bitcoin if they wanted access to Bitcoin Cash.
They were as open and honest as anyone could expect...hardly a case for robbery or fraud.
Being "open and honest" will not prevent the legal headache that is surely to come for Coinbase. It's obvious their decision was simply to hope there would be no fork and find out the consequences later. You can be an "open and honest" serial killer and it still will not justify your actions.
so coinbase/gdax didnt gave out bch or bcc to btc holders...so where did the bch/bcc went ? to coinbase pocket?
is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
I do not think you can call it fraud, coinbase was very open about the fact they were not going to credit BCH to any of their customers and encouraged anyone that wanted to have that altcoin to get their bitcoin out of coinbase, if someone did not listen or did not attend the call then that is not coinbase fault also there is not a single proof they stole BCH for their own benefit, maybe it was a technical decision or one base on principles.is it the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history?
If this happened in any other industry, arguably it would be called fraud. The problem with cryptocurrencies is that regulators are behind the curve. Exchanges like Coinbase should absolutely compensate the owners of coins during forks. Anything less will simply breed public skepticism and the spectre of government intrusion to make sure the conduct meets standards in other industries. Coinbase should adopt a more user-friendly approach.
It's obvious to me that Coinbase will eventually give customers at least some of their bitcoin cash. Lawyers are no doubt working round the clock to "clock" Coinbase and the expenses of these lawsuits will probably outweigh simply giving customers their coins.
my final note on this issue:
seems that coinbase clients feel scammed/robbed whatever u wanna call it.... just have a look at the coinbase forum https://community.coinbase.com/
with bcc at current price this was obviously the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history after all coinbase claims to have 10% of all btc
seems that coinbase clients feel scammed/robbed whatever u wanna call it.... just have a look at the coinbase forum https://community.coinbase.com/
with bcc at current price this was obviously the biggest robbery/fraud in crypto history after all coinbase claims to have 10% of all btc
It would be unfair if coinbase did not give customers any forewarning about what would would happen post fork but they were 100% transparent in saying that they were not supporting bitcoin cash. I left a little bit there and I'm bummed that I did, but I left it there myself, I had the full opportunity to zero out my bitcoin balance from there, so did everyone else.
Jump to: