Topic: [2018-02-10] The IRS Takes Its Tax Evasion Hunt to the Blockchain (Read 522 times)
February 26, 2018, 05:00:42 PM
I am curious on how they will be able to track and evaluate the capital. I mean the value of a coin can loose half of its value in very little time so how will you tax that in a fair way?
February 26, 2018, 08:17:50 AM
If these world become a movie, I'm sure that the main antagonist is the government. They really want people to be discouraged supporting crypto and forget it or have us pay so much tax if we still pursue it. They said that the government is here for us but we are like slaves for them to be honest.
February 23, 2018, 11:47:41 AM
Are you sure that the poll tax was so easily avoided? I'm not very familiar with its history, but as far as I know almost everyone had to pay it even if they didn't have the money. In Great Britain, for example, it was levied on every person since age 14 as a percentage of the value of their property. So it was more like a property tax today. And if you mean that it was a light burden, then I can't quite agree with you.
It's not even about how easy it was to avoid, but how hard it was to collect. Back in the day people had no bank accounts and didn't keep the books. You couldn't prove that somebody has the money or not and the taxes were being gathered by the collectors. Many people didn't want to let them in, so they were letting themselves in. This lead to fights, quarrels and the whole process was taking too much time and resources. Read about the poll tax in GB. There are many sources available.
Yes, it was like a property tax, but you didn't have to own anything to pay it. That looked like a bad thing, but it was much better than the taxes we are paying today.
Just imagine that you'd only have to pay once, just a property tax, wouldn't that be great? People don't know what they have until they lose it.
Yes, I read about the poll tax introduced by Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher in 1980s in GB. It was highly unpopular there and said to have contributed greatly to her political death in early 1990s. On the other hand, which tax is popular anyway? With that said, we shouldn't forget that the majority of today's taxes are paid on your income, either directly via income tax itself or indirectly via VAT and similar taxes, which you pay when you buy stuff in your grocery store. If you don't have income and limit your consumption, you don't have to pay a lot of taxes. I'm not very fond of taxes myself, but modern tax systems are by far more flexible and progressive than what we had in the past.
February 21, 2018, 04:22:04 PM
Are you sure that the poll tax was so easily avoided? I'm not very familiar with its history, but as far as I know almost everyone had to pay it even if they didn't have the money. In Great Britain, for example, it was levied on every person since age 14 as a percentage of the value of their property. So it was more like a property tax today. And if you mean that it was a light burden, then I can't quite agree with you.
It's not even about how easy it was to avoid, but how hard it was to collect. Back in the day people had no bank accounts and didn't keep the books. You couldn't prove that somebody has the money or not and the taxes were being gathered by the collectors. Many people didn't want to let them in, so they were letting themselves in. This lead to fights, quarrels and the whole process was taking too much time and resources. Read about the poll tax in GB. There are many sources available.
Yes, it was like a property tax, but you didn't have to own anything to pay it. That looked like a bad thing, but it was much better than the taxes we are paying today.
Just imagine that you'd only have to pay once, just a property tax, wouldn't that be great? People don't know what they have until they lose it.
February 21, 2018, 08:28:03 AM
I think that no one is against taxes
Many people reject the legitimacy of taxes
- It's involuntary, and hence legalised theft
- Violence (and threats of violence) are used to terrorise people to pay
- Because of the violence, a culture of waste and inefficiency pervades the government offices which spend the tax (why do a good job when the money is so easy to get?)
- Private organisations that receive government contracts also waste money (competition for contracts are often negotiated with corrupt terms and bidding processes)
- Government workers or contractors also simply spend the money on themselves and hide the evidence
- Most egregiously, governments start wars against other governments, drag their people into the wars, and kill millions in the conflicts
Maybe you weren't aware, but this is the reality of taxes.
I'm not in favour of paying someone money under violent threats towards me, then having them spend my money on mass-murder, stealing the property of the victims of mass-murder, spending my money on contract work for their friends, or just giving my money directly to themselves. And lying to me about all these things, that's the most egregious act of all.
Is anyone in favour of the above?
February 21, 2018, 05:37:37 AM
This was to be expected to start introducing taxes in the cryptomir. I think that no one is against taxes, the main thing is that they were not very large. If everything is regulated and brought to mind, then only large investors will come.
February 21, 2018, 04:19:41 AM
... And if you mean that it was a light burden, then I can't quite agree with you.
It probably was a hard burden due to the low income and the low general living standard back then.
However, I think he was comparing the percentage with the tax percentage that most countries have today
and then it becomes very clear that it was way lower than the tax percentage of today in most countries.
As I posted in another thread the general rise of the wealth of the nations of the world has allowed
countries to siphon off increasingly big amounts of money using taxation.
February 20, 2018, 01:21:31 PM
I only wish that more people read this and understood how the system works.
It never ceases to amaze me how the state has kept on adding taxes on top of taxes and nobody opposed this. 200 years ago all people had to pay was a poll tax. It was a common tax in many countries around the world and one of it's main downsides was that it was easy to avoid. If somebody had no money and didn't pay the tax there wasn't much the state could do about it as there was no wealth or property that it could seize. It was just though, as all people had the same amount to contribute.
It never ceases to amaze me how the state has kept on adding taxes on top of taxes and nobody opposed this. 200 years ago all people had to pay was a poll tax. It was a common tax in many countries around the world and one of it's main downsides was that it was easy to avoid. If somebody had no money and didn't pay the tax there wasn't much the state could do about it as there was no wealth or property that it could seize. It was just though, as all people had the same amount to contribute.
Are you sure that the poll tax was so easily avoided? I'm not very familiar with its history, but as far as I know almost everyone had to pay it even if they didn't have the money. In Great Britain, for example, it was levied on every person since age 14 as a percentage of the value of their property. So it was more like a property tax today. And if you mean that it was a light burden, then I can't quite agree with you.
February 19, 2018, 08:27:01 AM
Who said it was my solution
you
and why would you label me as part of them?
I didn't
Also, your solution is too extreme for an everyday person. If we try to refuse the whole system, including the corporations we become something like the Amish.
Wasn't your computer built the corporations? We would not be taking without them.
Wasn't your computer built the corporations? We would not be taking without them.
Your interpretation is too extreme. We don't need to regress to 19th century farming life in order to reject government totalitarianism, that's an enormous exaggeration. Just buy from independent businesses. Independent businesses make computers (although their supply chain may not necessarily be 100% free of proprietary components, the changes that can be made today are, e.g. no Windows and hence no licensing fee to Microsoft)
February 19, 2018, 08:03:38 AM
...
Indirect taxation in time evolved into what we are whitnessing. Sales tax, income tax (local and federal), excise tax, import tax, VAT, road tax, health insurance, social security, and so on. In some countries you have to pay taxes for the air you breathe, for owning a dog, and for many other ridiculous things.
Indirect taxation in time evolved into what we are whitnessing. Sales tax, income tax (local and federal), excise tax, import tax, VAT, road tax, health insurance, social security, and so on. In some countries you have to pay taxes for the air you breathe, for owning a dog, and for many other ridiculous things.
I´d speculate that this is partly related to the rise in the general wealth of most countries.
E.g. a few centuries ago the "poor" were starving and today the "poor" all have TV, Netflix
and a full fridge.
Due to this rise in the general wealth of most nations most countries can get away with
increasing the tax burden. After every rise of the GDP they can siphon off more money from
the taxpayers.
February 18, 2018, 07:29:30 PM
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
Your solution is highly unoriginal: voting. It's never worked, as individual people can't simply elect the government they prefer. And at least 51% of the electorate reliably believe politicians who lie about what they'll do if elected. Your advice is no different than the same advice we've been receiving for 100's of years. It's never, ever worked.
I did offer a solution: refuse government everywhere and for everything. Refuse corporations everywhere and for everything. People are beginning to do both in increasing numbers, without me saying a thing.
Who said it was my solution and why would you label me as part of them? I was born into this system and they pushed every belief they wanted me to conceive down my throat through the school system.
Also, your solution is too extreme for an everyday person. If we try to refuse the whole system, including the corporations we become something like the Amish.
Wasn't your computer built the corporations? We would not be taking without them.
February 18, 2018, 05:35:33 PM
I did offer a solution: refuse government everywhere and for everything. Refuse corporations everywhere and for everything. People are beginning to do both in increasing numbers, without me saying a thing.
That should be it, but what if as per the law you are forced to purchase healthcare insurance for example, and you don't want that? It's not that you can stretch it out for too long, because at some point it's a guarantee that the government will force you to pay what's due. If it isn't friendly, then it happens in a manner that is not so friendly. I have seen how this specific case has resulted in people being put into jail because they either can't pay it, or don't want to pay it. In other words, if you don't want to move to a country offering more freedom, you are basically being forced to compromise. What's your stance on this specific example?
February 18, 2018, 08:00:28 AM
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
Your solution is highly unoriginal: voting. It's never worked, as individual people can't simply elect the government they prefer. And at least 51% of the electorate reliably believe politicians who lie about what they'll do if elected. Your advice is no different than the same advice we've been receiving for 100's of years. It's never, ever worked.
I did offer a solution: refuse government everywhere and for everything. Refuse corporations everywhere and for everything. People are beginning to do both in increasing numbers, without me saying a thing.
February 18, 2018, 04:50:56 AM
So what do you propose if you hate the government?
This is an incredibly loaded question, bbc.reporter
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
A lot of us took to the streets to wave posters in their face. When someone is waving a poster saying, "Stop the expensive WAR, use the money to protect our borders" then we offered them solutions.
Most people only have a voice, when they are beaten on the streets for saying the truth.
They have a right to demand their taxes, but they have a duty to spend it wisely. We have a duty to remind them, when they are wasting those taxes.
These senseless wars in other countries is just one of the examples. People are duying of hunger in 1st world countries, because their governments are dropping $100 000 bombs in other countries.
This I agree with. It's not about taxes but about the people who run the government. Also, I reckon it would be better to have a smaller government than an ever larger, growing one that keeps increasing taxes every year. What they should be doing is make tax collection more efficient and consciously trying to push the corruption down to a minimum.
The problem I see is they increase the taxes because more and more of it goes to the corrupt's pockets hehehe.
@darkangel11. Is that who I am? No.
I think the solution you are offering is long-term, and is quite impossible to adapt considering very well how politics work. It is only through taxation that governments earn and sustain its cause regardless of some of the politician's hidden agenda. Hence, to take away or minimize the power to tax is to remove from the governments one of its main functions to work efficiently. Remember in the US Constitution, the power to tax is an encompassing power of the government without which the latter is unable to function.
You mentioned about corruption. You know, this issue has been in existence since time immemorial. I suppose, too, all governments aim to push it down. Too much talk; less act -- that is what I see. How can they be proactive about something when they are the promoters of this act?
Thusly, pointing at Bitcoin is just one of those instances they are looking for loopholes in the government. We have to recognize that Bitcoin is not the problem, but the system of government that we have.
February 17, 2018, 07:50:30 PM
So what do you propose if you hate the government?
This is an incredibly loaded question, bbc.reporter
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
A lot of us took to the streets to wave posters in their face. When someone is waving a poster saying, "Stop the expensive WAR, use the money to protect our borders" then we offered them solutions.
Most people only have a voice, when they are beaten on the streets for saying the truth.
They have a right to demand their taxes, but they have a duty to spend it wisely. We have a duty to remind them, when they are wasting those taxes.
These senseless wars in other countries is just one of the examples. People are duying of hunger in 1st world countries, because their governments are dropping $100 000 bombs in other countries.
This I agree with. It's not about taxes but about the people who run the government. Also, I reckon it would be better to have a smaller government than an ever larger, growing one that keeps increasing taxes every year. What they should be doing is make tax collection more efficient and consciously trying to push the corruption down to a minimum.
The problem I see is they increase the taxes because more and more of it goes to the corrupt's pockets hehehe.
@darkangel11. Is that who I am? No.
February 17, 2018, 04:34:07 PM
So what do you propose if you hate the government?
This is an incredibly loaded question, bbc.reporter
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
To hate people who criticize the government you first need to support the government. Is that who you are? A government supporter who doesn't criticize and hates those who do?
I would have a lot of ideas, but the problem with most people is they don't like changes. They are afraid that when they switch a couple bricks out or make a hole for a new window the whole building will fall on their heads. If you add the fact that old farts who grew in the system like to hold on to their chairs until they die or get kicked by force, you'll have a recipe for the never ending reign of socialism Yo read it right, because most of the world is still living in modern socialism. Taxes are meant to take from the rich (different tax rates depending on the income) and give to the poor (allowances, handouts) and the governments are trying to figure out how to implement new types of taxes. In some countries you're forced to pay a tax for owning a TV, called a TV licence... In the UK they're even invading homes trying to check if people own a TV.
February 17, 2018, 04:39:40 AM
One thing should be clear to all of at this point in the cryptocurrency movement: We should not use cryptocurrency as a means to evade paying taxes otherwise IRS will do everything in its power to run after us. We have to give in to the government's demand to have a share of the money we earned regardless of the source digital or fiat. Despite not having the proper recognition from the government on cryptocurrency, once the digital asset is converted into US Dollar the government is staking a claim on that and they the law backing them up. Just like in any industry, there will always be that cat-and-mouse kind of play here.
February 17, 2018, 02:18:33 AM
So what do you propose if you hate the government?
This is an incredibly loaded question, bbc.reporter
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
A lot of us took to the streets to wave posters in their face. When someone is waving a poster saying, "Stop the expensive WAR, use the money to protect our borders" then we offered them solutions.
Most people only have a voice, when they are beaten on the streets for saying the truth.
They have a right to demand their taxes, but they have a duty to spend it wisely. We have a duty to remind them, when they are wasting those taxes.
These senseless wars in other countries is just one of the examples. People are duying of hunger in 1st world countries, because their governments are dropping $100 000 bombs in other countries.
February 17, 2018, 02:11:37 AM
I think it is a good move to always try to exert some level of control to your people, hence, the US government keep pushing through on regulating cryptos and for it to be taxed correlatively just like any other businesses or employment. To be honest, I see nothing wrong with it because it only shows they are doing their jobs. Set plausible corruption aside, I know taxing those who earn with cryptos is just right according to all laws of the land.
Although on the flip side, I am wondering how is this possible considering the heavily encrypted database? Also, the transactions contain no identities except for maybe making use of the location of the user, but we all know this cannot be accurate in any sense. It may only give you leads.
Well, as they say, there will always be ways to get a hand of this especially if there is money involved.
Although on the flip side, I am wondering how is this possible considering the heavily encrypted database? Also, the transactions contain no identities except for maybe making use of the location of the user, but we all know this cannot be accurate in any sense. It may only give you leads.
Well, as they say, there will always be ways to get a hand of this especially if there is money involved.
February 16, 2018, 07:43:18 PM
So what do you propose if you hate the government?
This is an incredibly loaded question, bbc.reporter
Yes, but what about I hate about some people who keep criticizing the government, not that I love it, is that they offer no solution, only complaints.
But if you ask them what they reckon should be done with it, they do not offer anything.
To would be revolutionaries. Before you express any discontent, know the solutions before breaking things down.
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