[2018-06-13] Last Year’s Record-Breaking Bitcoin Price Was Actually A Fraud

ruthbabe

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Quote from: senin on June 14, 2018, 12:24:47 PM

I just did not understand what is fraud using the Tether token. This token is actually the digital equivalent of the dollar and it is really convenient for them to use on exchanges and exchangers as an intermediate step when converting to fiat. But what does fraud have to do with it? How did the demand for bitcoin increase with the tether USDT token?

I guess you did not click or open the link I have provided therein for everyone to read more about the controversies, that says 'Tether is used to provide price support and manipulate cryptocurrency prices'. John M. Griffin and Amin Shams, both from the University of Texas conducted the research published a paper (via Business Insider) that makes a remarkable claim, according to this report, http://bgr.com/2018/06/13/bitcoin-price-today-vs-ethereum-vs-ripple-vs-eos-manipulation/

jjacob

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 AM

Anyone can tell you that a commodity cannot jump from $1000 to $19 000 in a couple of months without manipulation. So this should not even be news. Roll Eyes

The Tether angle is new, so I would give you that. Roll Eyes

Everyone seems to be looking for an explanation on why the price is dropping and why we do not have a great year, but the answer is right in front of you. Bitcoin is based on Supply & Demand, and the Supply has increased and the demand has decreased. Cheesy

By an extension of your logic, no commodity can jump from a few cents to $1000 in a few years. Bitcoin has done just that. So would you conclude that the price rise during the initial years was manipulation too.
There may have been some manipulation during the price increase, but your logic that such a bull run is impossible without price manipulation is flawed.

stompix

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Quote from: senin on June 14, 2018, 12:24:47 PM

I just did not understand what is fraud using the Tether token. This token is actually the digital equivalent of the dollar and it is really convenient for them to use on exchanges and exchangers as an intermediate step when converting to fiat. But what does fraud have to do with it? How did the demand for bitcoin increase with the tether USDT token?

It's a supposition but at this moment:
- they can print tether just as fiat
- nobody knows for what the money from tether sales was used
- they have declined every financial audit that would make sure every tether is indeed backed by a $

So, the speculation is that they've used usdT printed out of air to buy BTC and thus increase the price.

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 15, 2018, 06:41:05 AM

I can imagine someone manipulating the market to change a few percents up or down occasionally, but I doubt that manipulation alone can drive the price from $1,000 to 19,000.

Remember Willy and Markus ?

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: 1Referee on June 15, 2018, 09:02:17 AM

Quote from: Kronos21 on June 15, 2018, 07:51:58 AM

I don't see many wanting to sell bitcoins for $ 6000. Price reduction is the same manipulation only with a minus sign. On each exchange we see a large number of offers for sale but we do not know how many of them are fictitious. The cryptocurrency market has no regulations and therefore speculators feel like a fish in the water.

It's almost safe to say that the majority of the sales in the last months were not retailers selling their coins, but very large holders and manipulators taking the price back to levels they think the market will be able to sustain itself without artificial buy support.

i think that theory is missing an important piece. market makers like to sell into retail demand and buy into retail panic. that's how trading ranges are formed: with thick liquidity on both sides of the range.

it's not really the "manipulators" who are pushing the market down. it's retail top buyers who are cutting losses and panicking because price ran into an order block and fell off a cliff.

the other thing is, major liquidity providers sometimes get run over by the market. they expect a continued range then get overrun by demand. this is where trends (and bubbles) are born, where out-of-position market makers have to chase price and provide further fuel to the fire.

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Quote from: ruthbabe on June 14, 2018, 10:22:43 AM

More disturbing, a new study now claims that Bitcoin’s incredible bull run last year was the result of manipulation via the use of a different token called Tether, which has seen its own share of controversies since its emergence.

Recently everyone's talking about this "study" and taking it for granted, just like the credibility of the researchers. I haven't seen any real proof only estimations, but there hasn't been any real proof from Binance's side as well. So for now it's a group of people against another group of people. It would be great if they allowed CTFC to check if they aren't making up all those tether - USD transactions, because if they are, we'll have Mt. Gox II.
It's funny that the tether problem is coming back every couple months. Last time I read about it when the price was falling for the first time in February. maybe this is the real manipulation, somebody trying to crash BTC by attacking USDt. If you can influence BTC by attacking an altcoin, why not try it. We all know that connection with fiat money was always the weak point of the system.

richardsNY

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With how exchanges become compliant and are allowed to run actual fiat to crypto pairs, we will slowly get rid of Tether, and this is the best possible development for this market as a whole. If ever Tether turns out to be one big shitshow, the impact will be negligible -- the longer the explosion of Tether is being delayed, the lower the impact on this market will be. Bitfinex didn't exclude US registrants without a reason, and that is to at least temporarily get rid of the world police (US) but they can't keep running endlessly. I wonder if anyone here on this forum has ever used Tether to actually cash out?

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Just as the bears are firmly in control of the market now, the bulls were very much holding the market in their vicelike grips last year. And sure, if manipulation and control of the market (I mean, what else would have caused people to buy Bitcoin at $20k?), then last year was as much a fraud as today's bearish market is a fraud (I mean, what else could possess people to sell Bitcoin at $6.5k when it was barely six months ago at almost three times that?).

Quote from: Hamphser on June 15, 2018, 12:03:56 PM

For those who had already have idea on how the market moves or behaves specially with bitcoins price they would already realize that selling off doesnt really have any point. Buying on high ranges cant really be avoided even no matter how experienced we are. We can call it a fraud into those Price peaks or ATH but even knowing such thing cant really make any difference. They can manipulate since they do hold heavier bags compared to us.

Precisely. You buy and sell as and when needed, as and when your strategy (if trading) allows. There's no way to influence or time the market. And there's no blame to place on anyone or anything. Bitcoin has never moved on rationale.

Kemarit

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I wouldn't categorized it a s fraud, but it you are going to look at it closely, there was a lot of irrational buyers that time, and we can't really explained where all those money are coming from. Maybe there are a lot who think that their money can still grow eventhough the price already reaches it peaked at $19,000 and a matter of time to burst. So once it burst, obviously the price keeps free falling up to a point wherein most holders mentality has been challenged and I believed some of them have succumb to the pressure already. As for tether, as far as I can remember, it has been exposed already as one way of whales manipulating the price so I'm not surprised at all.

Hamphser

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Quote from: 1Referee on June 15, 2018, 09:02:17 AM

Quote from: Kronos21 on June 15, 2018, 07:51:58 AM

I don't see many wanting to sell bitcoins for $ 6000. Price reduction is the same manipulation only with a minus sign. On each exchange we see a large number of offers for sale but we do not know how many of them are fictitious. The cryptocurrency market has no regulations and therefore speculators feel like a fish in the water.

It's almost safe to say that the majority of the sales in the last months were not retailers selling their coins, but very large holders and manipulators taking the price back to levels they think the market will be able to sustain itself without artificial buy support. Very important indicator is how much they tend to respect crucial chart patterns and bottoms. Retailers in panic have zero respect for any sort of indicator or chart, they just want to dump their coins to prevent further losses.

I know certain people around me that are holding coins bought at way higher levels, they have taken the right amount of distance from this market and wait for their coins to gain value again. They acknowledge that there is no point in selling anymore, especially with how the price suddenly can start shooting up again.

For those who had already have idea on how the market moves or behaves specially with bitcoins price they would already realize that selling off doesnt really have any point. Buying on high ranges cant really be avoided even no matter how experienced we are. We can call it a fraud into those Price peaks or ATH but even knowing such thing cant really make any difference. They can manipulate since they do hold heavier bags compared to us.

Slow death

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Quote from: ruthbabe on June 14, 2018, 11:47:54 AM

So, what you're saying it's not possible for Bitcoin to repeat what it did last year? If not...

it is not possible to reach prices last year because this year there is pressure from many governments and central banks that are creating fear in people and are making it difficult to buy cryptos, you just see the decisions taken by visa and mastercard for you to realize that the extent of the problem. we do not have much demand like last year because of the exaggerated regulations that many governments and banks are creating for people using bitcoin

Quote from: ruthbabe on June 14, 2018, 11:47:54 AM

then is there a chance that it could hit the $8000 in the next 30 days?

Yes have a chance, if we have more demand. but if you look closely you will realize that this will be a hard task, I would say that have a 20% chance of reaching this price

1Referee

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Quote from: Kronos21 on June 15, 2018, 07:51:58 AM

I don't see many wanting to sell bitcoins for $ 6000. Price reduction is the same manipulation only with a minus sign. On each exchange we see a large number of offers for sale but we do not know how many of them are fictitious. The cryptocurrency market has no regulations and therefore speculators feel like a fish in the water.

It's almost safe to say that the majority of the sales in the last months were not retailers selling their coins, but very large holders and manipulators taking the price back to levels they think the market will be able to sustain itself without artificial buy support. Very important indicator is how much they tend to respect crucial chart patterns and bottoms. Retailers in panic have zero respect for any sort of indicator or chart, they just want to dump their coins to prevent further losses.

I know certain people around me that are holding coins bought at way higher levels, they have taken the right amount of distance from this market and wait for their coins to gain value again. They acknowledge that there is no point in selling anymore, especially with how the price suddenly can start shooting up again.

Kronos21

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 AM

Anyone can tell you that a commodity cannot jump from $1000 to $19 000 in a couple of months without manipulation. So this should not even be news. Roll Eyes

The Tether angle is new, so I would give you that. Roll Eyes

Everyone seems to be looking for an explanation on why the price is dropping and why we do not have a great year, but the answer is right in front of you. Bitcoin is based on Supply & Demand, and the Supply has increased and the demand has decreased. Cheesy

Are you sure the offers have increased? I don't see many wanting to sell bitcoins for $ 6000. Price reduction is the same manipulation only with a minus sign. On each exchange we see a large number of offers for sale but we do not know how many of them are fictitious. The cryptocurrency market has no regulations and therefore speculators feel like a fish in the water.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 AM

Anyone can tell you that a commodity cannot jump from $1000 to $19 000 in a couple of months without manipulation.

Why not? I don't think we should quickly attribute big price changes to manipulation and whales when there's a simple explanation - volatile and speculative market. History knows many bubbles and most of them were caused by regular traders being overoptimistic. This is not to say that there's no manipulation at all, I think there a huge amount of it, but it's effect is not very big, especially on larger scale. I can imagine someone manipulating the market to change a few percents up or down occasionally, but I doubt that manipulation alone can drive the price from $1,000 to 19,000. Also, it took one full year, not a couple of months.

entrepmind23

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 AM

Anyone can tell you that a commodity cannot jump from $1000 to $19 000 in a couple of months without manipulation. So this should not even be news. Roll Eyes

The Tether angle is new, so I would give you that. Roll Eyes

Everyone seems to be looking for an explanation on why the price is dropping and why we do not have a great year, but the answer is right in front of you. Bitcoin is based on Supply & Demand, and the Supply has increased and the demand has decreased. Cheesy

Yes there is manipulation and we all know that. There is still the issue about tether not backed by dollar and they just keep printing more tethers but then the perfect explanation would be the supply and demand. We all know about the law of supply and demand and it is the reason why a currency or commodity behaves that way in the market. Bitcoin has been going down and volume is low so people are not interested to buy yet but when the volume picks up, demand would increase and maybe it would be the start of the bull market.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 AM

Anyone can tell you that a commodity cannot jump from $1000 to $19 000 in a couple of months without manipulation. So this should not even be news. Roll Eyes

The Tether angle is new, so I would give you that. Roll Eyes

Everyone seems to be looking for an explanation on why the price is dropping and why we do not have a great year, but the answer is right in front of you. Bitcoin is based on Supply & Demand, and the Supply has increased and the demand has decreased. Cheesy

Agreed. But the research paper also mentioned that more USDT were issued as the price of bitcoin was falling. When bitcoins are falling the demand transfers to USDT. High demand also makes USDT higher in price against US dollars. To maintain the $1.00:1USDT peg, the issuers have to issue more USDT.

felixesteban

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Now everyone is looking for a logical reason, what happened there and bitcoin's price has fallen so terribly. At that time,in all platforms were talking about cryptos and bitcoins, and people began to buy bitcoins like crazy. Bitcoin price will reach $ 100,000 or even $ 1 million. That was what they said . If everything went well at that stage, the price would continue to rise, but something happened and it stopped. Who's guilty, whales or starting of the future trading.

dunfida

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 AM

Anyone can tell you that a commodity cannot jump from $1000 to $19 000 in a couple of months without manipulation. So this should not even be news. Roll Eyes

The Tether angle is new, so I would give you that. Roll Eyes

Everyone seems to be looking for an explanation on why the price is dropping and why we do not have a great year, but the answer is right in front of you. Bitcoin is based on Supply & Demand, and the Supply has increased and the demand has decreased. Cheesy

We are always looking out for a reason either we do go upward or downward but even just on our common sense we can really say such thing. Even its hard to admit to ourselves yet we do believe on bitcoins potential but thinking of manipulation cant really be removed on our minds. There wont really be a thing that can jump up with that range on a short period of time. We can even say with our very own eyes that its always been part of manipulation.

senin

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I just did not understand what is fraud using the Tether token. This token is actually the digital equivalent of the dollar and it is really convenient for them to use on exchanges and exchangers as an intermediate step when converting to fiat. But what does fraud have to do with it? How did the demand for bitcoin increase with the tether USDT token?

Maveth13

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Quote from: ruthbabe on June 14, 2018, 11:47:54 AM

So, what you're saying it's not possible for Bitcoin to repeat what it did last year? If not, then is there a chance that it could hit the $8000 in the next 30 days?

Even exceeding that of last year is a possibility. There's not always a special reason for a huge price increase or decrease. People always seem to try and find/make crazy speculations on why the market moves the way it does, when this is normal in cryptocurrency trading.

ruthbabe

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So, what you're saying it's not possible for Bitcoin to repeat what it did last year? If not, then is there a chance that it could hit the $8000 in the next 30 days?

Topic: [2018-06-13] Last Year’s Record-Breaking Bitcoin Price Was Actually A Fraud (Read 280 times)