[2018-08-10] New Bill Proposes 5% Tax on Crypto Incomes in Ukraine

Snaic

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Quote from: veleten on August 14, 2018, 10:44:14 AM

Quote from: darkangel11 on August 13, 2018, 02:07:51 PM

I see that many people have quoted me saying that there's no civil war there. I'm not going to argue with Ukrainians or people who visited the country, you're most likely better informed than me. Why did I call it a civil war? The answer is simple. It's Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians. You may call these people hired mercenaries or rebels or separationists, but most of them used to be Ukrainian citizens at some point in time, which makes it a civil war, doesn't it?

it certainly does,but you won't prove anything as you can see by the post above yours
they would tell you about hundreds of armoured vehicles they hear about from the Ukrainian news and batallions of russians attacking Ukraine
we live in the sattelites era,if there was a single shred of evidence about russian troops on the ukrainian territory
don't you think the whole world would know about it the next second they cross the border?
hence the goverment has to invent fairy tales about "hybrid war", "agression" and all that jazz,meanwhile remaining the main trading partner of Russia
all that to not accept the simple fact: many people haven't accepted the illegal coup'd'etat and do not want to have anything in common with the nationalists and thieves at the helm
instead of trying to find a solution to the problem, the goverment wants to subdue Donbass region using military power
you cannot say "hey we bomb our own people who do not share our ideology", you say we fight Russia instead

So maybe in the Ukrainian Crimea now there are no Russian military, and Putin there already on the parade did not come, and Russia did not capture the Crimea with its military? Or do you not know this? The whole world knows, but you do not. Or maybe yes, the Crimea was captured, but on the Donbass Russian tanks of the newest modification are not Russian?
And tell me, how can you assess the actions of the Russian authorities, in which from Russia the military unit was towed to the territory of Ukraine corresponding sophisticated equipment that could only be managed by a specially trained crew, knock off a MN-17 passenger plane from Ukraine and then tow it back to Russia in the former military unit. This has already been recognized by the international community. This is a component, part of the civil war in Ukraine, in which Russian soldiers from civilian aircraft are knocked down from the most sophisticated military equipment. But in fact. wanted to transfer all responsibility for this terrorist act to Ukraine. Did not work out.

Snaic

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 13, 2018, 02:07:51 PM

I see that many people have quoted me saying that there's no civil war there. I'm not going to argue with Ukrainians or people who visited the country, you're most likely better informed than me. Why did I call it a civil war? The answer is simple. It's Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians. You may call these people hired mercenaries or rebels or separationists, but most of them used to be Ukrainian citizens at some point in time, which makes it a civil war, doesn't it?

No, it's not. Now the Russian government has transported thousands of units of modern military equipment across the open Ukrainian-Russian border, thousands of Russian servicemen are in the Ukrainian Donbas as directly subdivided, and simply under the guise of mercenaries. And Russian mercenaries, Russian nationality, with a residence permit in Russia. And they are taken in coffins and then to Russia. And you do not need to twist anything here. There is no civil war in Ukraine. Putin does not want to let Ukraine go to the European Union and NATO. This is practically the only reason for the direct and indirect invasion of Russian troops in Ukraine.

veleten

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 13, 2018, 02:07:51 PM

I see that many people have quoted me saying that there's no civil war there. I'm not going to argue with Ukrainians or people who visited the country, you're most likely better informed than me. Why did I call it a civil war? The answer is simple. It's Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians. You may call these people hired mercenaries or rebels or separationists, but most of them used to be Ukrainian citizens at some point in time, which makes it a civil war, doesn't it?

it certainly does,but you won't prove anything as you can see by the post above yours
they would tell you about hundreds of armoured vehicles they hear about from the Ukrainian news and batallions of russians attacking Ukraine
we live in the sattelites era,if there was a single shred of evidence about russian troops on the ukrainian territory
don't you think the whole world would know about it the next second they cross the border?
hence the goverment has to invent fairy tales about "hybrid war", "agression" and all that jazz,meanwhile remaining the main trading partner of Russia
all that to not accept the simple fact: many people haven't accepted the illegal coup'd'etat and do not want to have anything in common with the nationalists and thieves at the helm
instead of trying to find a solution to the problem, the goverment wants to subdue Donbass region using military power
you cannot say "hey we bomb our own people who do not share our ideology", you say we fight Russia instead

aoluain

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Quote from: European Central Bank on August 10, 2018, 06:42:24 AM

that's a tax rate most people elsewhere could get behind. i think it's 55 or 60% in japan. but the idea of that tax being on all purchases with crypto is a pretty dumb idea. it should only be above a certain level.

and what the hell's with that war tax? i've never heard of anything like that before.

Never heard of a military tax before either but hey there used to be a window tax
many many years ago so governments can create a tax on anything.

5% tax is very very low and very attractive to anyone looking to take some profit
out of crypto. Compare this to Isreal who have a 25% tax on crypto profits.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

I see that many people have quoted me saying that there's no civil war there. I'm not going to argue with Ukrainians or people who visited the country, you're most likely better informed than me. Why did I call it a civil war? The answer is simple. It's Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians. You may call these people hired mercenaries or rebels or separationists, but most of them used to be Ukrainian citizens at some point in time, which makes it a civil war, doesn't it?

Spaffin

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Quote from: veleten on August 12, 2018, 04:16:25 PM

Quote from: mazdafunsun on August 12, 2018, 09:06:42 AM

Quote from: darkangel11 on August 10, 2018, 12:06:22 PM

Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

Altough some members pointed this out, i feel that i need to do it again.
There is no civil war in Ukraine!
There is people of Ukraine who are fighting in gropus and in army to pretect what is left of their land which is being invaded by Russian troops and backed assholes. Do not disrespect people who are giving their lives for their land by fighting imperialist pigs.

Regarding the tax, this is very appropriate in my mind, since big taxes make people think of ways to avoid them, small taxes encourages tax payments,

you are delusional
find a single evidence of "Russian troops" and post here I dare you
when one part of the same nation is fighting another part and it is what is happening exactly
this is called civil war no matter who backs who in the process

You are deeply mistaken. Civil war, this is when within one country people kill other people again, because of some internal reasons. In Ukraine there is no discord between citizens. In it there is not even enmity between Russians and Ukrainians. Simple people do not fight with each other. The Russian government organized the invasion of the Russian troops on the Ukrainian peninsula Crimea, and then wanted to seize the eastern part of Ukraine, so that there would be a free passage overland to this peninsula. They failed because they met the resistance of volunteers, as the Russian authorities tried to make sure that the Ukrainian army did not exist by that time.

The essence of such an invasion by Russian troops is to prevent Ukraine from getting out of Russia's influence and joining the European Union and then into NATO. The fact that in Ukraine a civil war, it was invented by Putin and his entourage to disguise his direct invasion of Ukraine. If there is a civil war in Ukraine, why are there hundreds of Russian tanks and other modern military equipment?

So do not write what you do not know.

veleten

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Quote from: mazdafunsun on August 12, 2018, 09:06:42 AM

Quote from: darkangel11 on August 10, 2018, 12:06:22 PM

Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

Altough some members pointed this out, i feel that i need to do it again.
There is no civil war in Ukraine!
There is people of Ukraine who are fighting in gropus and in army to pretect what is left of their land which is being invaded by Russian troops and backed assholes. Do not disrespect people who are giving their lives for their land by fighting imperialist pigs.

Regarding the tax, this is very appropriate in my mind, since big taxes make people think of ways to avoid them, small taxes encourages tax payments,

you are delusional
find a single evidence of "Russian troops" and post here I dare you
when one part of the same nation is fighting another part and it is what is happening exactly
this is called civil war no matter who backs who in the process

Mikhail 777

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If you really look at these things, then the introduction of such a tax does not threaten anything. Paying five percent of the income of an asset with such a large volatility is normal. So we are waiting for this law, maybe this will be an example for other countries.

mazdafunsun

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 10, 2018, 12:06:22 PM

Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

Altough some members pointed this out, i feel that i need to do it again.
There is no civil war in Ukraine!
There is people of Ukraine who are fighting in gropus and in army to pretect what is left of their land which is being invaded by Russian troops and backed assholes. Do not disrespect people who are giving their lives for their land by fighting imperialist pigs.

Regarding the tax, this is very appropriate in my mind, since big taxes make people think of ways to avoid them, small taxes encourages tax payments,

Rustamm

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 10, 2018, 12:06:22 PM

Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

I am also surprised by the expression that a civil war is under way in Ukraine. Even in the article itself it is written that Ukraine is fighting in the east of its country with pro-Russian forces. There are entire army units of Russian troops there, still a significant part of them are formally dismissed from the armed forces and are supposedly already civilians and when they are brought to their relatives in coffins, they are absolutely sure that the one killed in Ukraine served the Russian army until recently. And how to explain that in the east of Ukraine there are the latest developments of military Russian technology, and in very large quantities. Do they steal in the Russian army or does Russia voluntarily supply them to the territory of Ukraine?

Tylev

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Quote from: veleten on August 11, 2018, 01:09:22 PM

Quote from: European Central Bank on August 10, 2018, 06:42:24 AM

that's a tax rate most people elsewhere could get behind. i think it's 55 or 60% in japan. but the idea of that tax being on all purchases with crypto is a pretty dumb idea. it should only be above a certain level.

and what the hell's with that war tax? i've never heard of anything like that before.

you don't understand the way this is going to happen in Ukraine:
this would mean that the enforcement agencies will have the right to come and confiscate your mining equipment or have a pretence
to be able to squeeze some money out of the common folk who just makes their hard living in Ukraine mining or trading crypta
it is not going to be positive for a regular Joe in any ways-no protection,no legal status,just be sure that you will get visited and asked to share
the goverment is very close to bankrupcy and they are trying to find anything that would allow to stop the bleeding at least for a while
the war tax is what every ukrainian has to pay now because of the civil war raging in the East while the goverment says they are fighting Russia
so every operation is taxed with 1.5% be it business or just a shop purchase

What civil war in Ukraine? What are you talking about? And in the Crimea civil war, it turns out, was not, because on the territory of Crimea there was a naval base of Russia in Sevastopol. From there, just withdrew armored vehicles and tanks and captured the peninsula. And the Russian special forces led by Girkin came to the Donbass first, and then began to recruit and send thousands of mercenaries and transfer modern military equipment across the open border. Hundreds of tanks, hail, artillery, mortars are also part of the civil war that Russia is supplying to the Donbas?

Sutters Mill

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Quote from: Rahar02 on August 10, 2018, 09:10:13 AM

5% is a pretty big tax, especially for miners these days hardly make decent profits.
.

You don't pay taxes do you? 5% is tiny. Capital gains taxes are often 20% or more. 5% is a steal. Miners will probably pay income taxes anyway which will certainly be higher than 5% that's for sure.

Quote from: darkangel11 on August 10, 2018, 12:06:22 PM

Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

Love or hate taxes it's the price you gotta pay to live in a functioning society. The best and simplest way to tax crypto is only when you cash out, then pay what you owe on your gains. Trying to tax transactions and trades etc is both cumbersome and silly and only makes things difficult for everyone.

jjacob

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5% is a very low tax rate and most people across the world would be happy with such low rates. Low rates also encourage compliance - it is a small price to pay to be on the right side of the law.

Quote from: veleten on August 11, 2018, 01:09:22 PM

this would mean that the enforcement agencies will have the right to come and confiscate your mining equipment or have a pretence
to be able to squeeze some money out of the common folk who just makes their hard living in Ukraine mining or trading crypta

If the enforcement agencies do this, they would do it irrespective of whether the rate is 5% or 50%. It is good that the government has set a low rate for crypto taxation.

veleten

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Quote from: European Central Bank on August 10, 2018, 06:42:24 AM

that's a tax rate most people elsewhere could get behind. i think it's 55 or 60% in japan. but the idea of that tax being on all purchases with crypto is a pretty dumb idea. it should only be above a certain level.

and what the hell's with that war tax? i've never heard of anything like that before.

you don't understand the way this is going to happen in Ukraine:
this would mean that the enforcement agencies will have the right to come and confiscate your mining equipment or have a pretence
to be able to squeeze some money out of the common folk who just makes their hard living in Ukraine mining or trading crypta
it is not going to be positive for a regular Joe in any ways-no protection,no legal status,just be sure that you will get visited and asked to share
the goverment is very close to bankrupcy and they are trying to find anything that would allow to stop the bleeding at least for a while
the war tax is what every ukrainian has to pay now because of the civil war raging in the East while the goverment says they are fighting Russia
so every operation is taxed with 1.5% be it business or just a shop purchase

senin

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In my opinion, the 5-percent tax is quite good for payment when exchanging crypto-currency for ordinary money. However, it would be better if such a tax was levied after some fixed minimum amount. Although, if you look at it, this is the fourth or fifth draft of the crypto currency, which lie in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and none of them are going to accept. There are several thousand very urgent bills, and when they are considered, it is not known.

FXTradingPro

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The tax level seems very fair and demonstrates how far ahead Eastern Europe is compared with the rest of the world when it comes to acceptance and government implementation.

Irvinn

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 10, 2018, 12:06:22 PM

Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

You are deeply mistaken. In Ukraine there is no civil war. Ordinary citizens there do not divide anything among themselves, Ukrainians and Russians have always lived normally in Ukraine. The Russian government is now conducting a hybrid war with Ukraine, seeking to keep it in its subordination, so that Ukraine could not join the European Union and NATO. It all began when the then president, Yanukovych, refused to sign an association agreement with the European Union, in defiance of the people's aspirations. The people rose and drove out such a president. After that, Putin immediately captured the Ukrainian peninsula Crimea and the eastern part of the industrialized region of Ukraine - Donbass. Russian tanks at the cost of their lives were stopped there mainly by volunteers armed only with rifles, because Yanukovych and Putin tried to ensure that by that time the Ukrainian army was practically non-existent.
Moving now hundreds of tanks and other modern military equipment to the Donbass and handing it over to their own mercenaries, such as the Russian private army of Wagner, Putin is trying to destabilize the situation in Ukraine.

darkangel11

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Although i hate taxes this one is pretty fair. Not only that it is only 5%, but it's also charged only when you convert to fiat money, which you don't have to do at all. Many countries want you to pay on your crypto profits regardless of whether you exchange for fiat or not. There's a civil war being waged in there so it's no surprise they need money. Of course introducing taxes while some of your neighbors (Belarus) have none is shooting yourself in the leg.

Leyss

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Quote from: European Central Bank on August 10, 2018, 06:42:24 AM

that's a tax rate most people elsewhere could get behind. i think it's 55 or 60% in japan. but the idea of that tax being on all purchases with crypto is a pretty dumb idea. it should only be above a certain level.

and what the hell's with that war tax? i've never heard of anything like that before.

It seems to me that five percent of the cost of the converted crypto currency in fiat, it's pretty good. Although the Verkhovna Rada has a bill on the complete exemption of citizens from taxes associated with crypto-currency activities.
As for the military charge, now Ukraine is actually conducting an undeclared war with Russia. Russia has already seized part of the territory of Ukraine, transferred more than 700 tanks, many salvo fire systems and other modern to mercenaries fighting against Ukraine. More than 8,000 citizens of Ukraine have already been killed. Destroys the industrial region of Ukraine, Russia exports to itself from the occupied territories factories and other valuable enterprises. I mean, it's all very serious and many in general, I see the notion is not how difficult the situation is now in Ukraine and what the Russian government is doing now. Therefore, Ukraine actually revives the army, introduced a special tax on citizens to modernize the army.

1Referee

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Quote from: European Central Bank on August 10, 2018, 06:42:24 AM

but the idea of that tax being on all purchases with crypto is a pretty dumb idea. it should only be above a certain level.

It's extremely smart from the government's perspective. I personally can legally avoid paying taxes over my gains by spending my coins, and this practice is something the Ukrainian government wants to combat by taxing every purchase regardless of its value. It's pretty safe to say that they have been observing how other countries have been dealing with less income due to this legal 'loophole' and for that reason want to avoid missing out on income.

In most cases countries aren't really conservative because they are conservative, but purely to observe how other countries are doing and it seems that Ukraine has been an observing country. Either way, these developments will be just as important for Russia because they have been moving back and forth for years, and this can be their trigger to start regulating crypto in a similar way. The last thing they want is Ukraine to get all the shine and potential econonical power.

Topic: [2018-08-10] New Bill Proposes 5% Tax on Crypto Incomes in Ukraine (Read 312 times)