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Topic: [2018-09-04] Is the future of Bitcoin in ETF? (Read 307 times)

newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
October 11, 2018, 02:23:49 AM
#22
Don't you think that people often think about Bitcoin as an investment and not a currency?

That's okay I guess, as long as the balance is healthy enough.

In all cases, the majority of the fiat in circulation isn't being utilized as money, but rather as investment. The reason fiat has value is because we need and use it as money, and we need it to invest in other assets. It's a 2-way utility factor that makes fiat so useful, even though its value depreciates consistently throughout the years.

Bitcoin does everything fiat does in that regard, except for the fact that with Bitcoin you aren't dealing with long term value depreciation.

The current generation of "investors" are lunatics and parasites that we'll eventually get rid of. Smart money will shake the last few satoshis out of their pockets.

Haha, I like your observation and predictions about current "investors". There's only one thing I want you to ask now, do you think that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies will outlive fiat and eventually replace all the currencies and we'll use cryptocurrencies in everyday financial activities? And if so, why?
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 575
Cryptophile at large
September 08, 2018, 07:38:10 AM
#21
Hell no. ETFs are only financial instruments which are beneficial to institutional investors and the like.

In no way shape or form are they of any use to the average Joe using bitcoin. The only effect would be the hype created by an approval (which seems extremely unlikely at this stage with SEC continuously rejecting and delaying decisions) which could potentially push prices up in the short term.

There is no long term future to speak of in bitcoin that is held in bitcoin ETFs, that is just stuff made up by media. The SEC is making a judgment on a financial product, not bitcoin itself, remember that.

Don't you think that people often think about Bitcoin as an investment and not a currency? I have seen many people (hodlers mostly) who believe that cryptocurrency is for an investment, they hope for the future rise and profit. But originally, Bitcoin was created as a currency, as an everyday use tool. By looking at this situation, I think lots of people will be excited to have Bitcoin ETFs, just for the investment plans.

I know it's an arguable subject, whether it's necessary for Bitcoin to have an ETF or not, but this thing is demanded all over the world. Changing or maybe transforming the Bitcoin infrastructure.

It's nice to know your opinion about this.

We can't stop people from using it how they want, but there's no reason why it can't be both a currency and investment. Saving money should give you interest over time and that's how bitcoin is designed so the less comes into existence as time goes by, as opposed to fiat where more and more gets printed which devalues everybody else cash. If you want to use your bitcoins for payment for goods and services then you can, but those that want to hold it as a (potential) investment can also do so.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 2304
September 07, 2018, 12:26:48 PM
#20
I guess that Bitcoin ETF will be adopted in the future. As far as I know, the SEC twice rejected the ETF proposals - in 2017 and recently in August 2018. I'm pretty sure that the Winklewoss brothers or other big BTC holders will file a new application next year. Who knows whether this proposal will be refused or not. Perhaps there will be another circumstances for changing the opinion of the SEC.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
September 07, 2018, 07:27:49 AM
#19
But few countries use bitcoin to pay their bills and make purchases. after the mastercard and visa have become a bitcoin enemy, we do not have the means to use bitcoin as a form of payments.
It's just a matter of time before we can start even paying our bills in Bitcoin. Merchants can save like 3% in fees just by accepting Bitcoin, which allows them to forward that as a bonus to people using Bitcoin as payment option. If Merchants cut out the centralized payment gateways, which will take a while but still, Mastercard & Co won't be able to compete with Bitcoin based on fees anymore.

If we had bitcoin debit card, then we would be using bitcoin like fiat
That's not Bitcoin. We need to get rid of central parties requiring permission and fees for their services. That's what Bitcoin is meant to combat. If we stick to debit cards and central payment gateways, what are we using Bitcoin for? People in that case can just as easily stick to using fiat as they have always been doing.
hero member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 596
September 06, 2018, 06:51:27 PM
#18
Quote
On  March 28, 2003, the first Gold ETF was launched and the interest in gold started rising. But the thing is, these markets are controlled and manipulated, that crosses out the idea of Bitcoin and the independence of our financial possibilities.

These are the obvious negative effects of ETFs. They might produce a short term spark in the market, but after that, it could actually lead to more manipulation within the market due to the fact that they are only financial instruments, and not actual bitcoins itself.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no way that the future of bitcoin is in the ETF alone, at least not in a positive sense. Regardless of whether the ETF is approved, the bitcoin network is going to stay the same.

People need to start to realizing that adoption levels is what's going to affect the future of bitcoin, especially international adoption by people who produce and sell goods. That's what makes bitcoin a better currency, in my opinion at least. ETFs could fulfill the void of institutional investors, but most likely is not going to be of benefit to bitcoin in the long run.

Besides, it's not like there is much of a chance that one ETF is going to get accepted next month. In fact, we don't even know if September is truly going to be the absolute deadline for ETFs which are on review right now.
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 1127
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
September 06, 2018, 04:43:04 PM
#17
I think lots of people will be excited to have Bitcoin ETFs, just for the investment plans.

people are very enthusiastic because they expect to have a big increase in prices, just look at this:

Bitcoin ETF Exclusive: Trump Appoints Pro-Crypto SEC Commissioner While Coinbase Planning a Bitcoin ETF

with this we increase more the chances of finally seeing a bitcoin ETF, the next months will be very exciting months

Bitcoin does everything fiat does in that regard

But few countries use bitcoin to pay their bills and make purchases. after the mastercard and visa have become a bitcoin enemy, we do not have the means to use bitcoin as a form of payments. If we had bitcoin debit card, then we would be using bitcoin like fiat

legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
September 06, 2018, 03:40:13 PM
#16
Don't you think that people often think about Bitcoin as an investment and not a currency?

That's okay I guess, as long as the balance is healthy enough.

In all cases, the majority of the fiat in circulation isn't being utilized as money, but rather as investment. The reason fiat has value is because we need and use it as money, and we need it to invest in other assets. It's a 2-way utility factor that makes fiat so useful, even though its value depreciates consistently throughout the years.

Bitcoin does everything fiat does in that regard, except for the fact that with Bitcoin you aren't dealing with long term value depreciation.

The current generation of "investors" are lunatics and parasites that we'll eventually get rid of. Smart money will shake the last few satoshis out of their pockets.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
September 06, 2018, 08:16:14 AM
#15
Hell no. ETFs are only financial instruments which are beneficial to institutional investors and the like.

In no way shape or form are they of any use to the average Joe using bitcoin. The only effect would be the hype created by an approval (which seems extremely unlikely at this stage with SEC continuously rejecting and delaying decisions) which could potentially push prices up in the short term.

There is no long term future to speak of in bitcoin that is held in bitcoin ETFs, that is just stuff made up by media. The SEC is making a judgment on a financial product, not bitcoin itself, remember that.

Don't you think that people often think about Bitcoin as an investment and not a currency? I have seen many people (hodlers mostly) who believe that cryptocurrency is for an investment, they hope for the future rise and profit. But originally, Bitcoin was created as a currency, as an everyday use tool. By looking at this situation, I think lots of people will be excited to have Bitcoin ETFs, just for the investment plans.

I know it's an arguable subject, whether it's necessary for Bitcoin to have an ETF or not, but this thing is demanded all over the world. Changing or maybe transforming the Bitcoin infrastructure.

It's nice to know your opinion about this.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
September 06, 2018, 08:11:38 AM
#14
No, bitcoin was created as a currency, not for price manipulation. Trading tool is a second time for bitcoin, it will be develop, but it not the future.

Yes, Bitcoin was created as a currency, but many markets have opened the doors for Bitcoin. The crypto infrastructure is still forming and people are trying out different fields that Bitcoin can affect. One of those field is ETF. It's not necessarily the best thing to happen to Bitcoin, but it's something that people think should be tried. You can't deny that Bitcoin ETFs have big demand. It's different if Bitcoin needs ETF or not (I think it doesn't need ETF to be great, but it's something that will probably happen).
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
September 06, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
#13
Nope but big help for bitcoin if ETF approve by the government  
In my own opinion bitcoin continue to stay string as currency without ETF aproval
Bitcoin supposedly still strongly stand their own ability to become famous currency in the help of the supporters
I still believe The  future of bitcoin in this new era of technology are still continue to grow

So, as I understand, you don't believe that Bitcoin ETF will be accepted?

By the way, of course Bitcoin doesn't need ETF to be popular and useful. It's the first cryptocurrency and it's popular enough already. I can see many different ways it can be developed, and ETF is one of them. It's a subject of conversation whether it's a good idea or not, but I'm interested in what you think?
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
September 06, 2018, 08:06:52 AM
#12
Bitcoin is bigger than these ETFs and bitcoin's future is so much more than just them. Don't get me wrong, I think ETFs are potentially huge for bitcoin and a big step in the right direction for mainstream acceptance and will surely open up doors to more investors and the general public which will obviously all come with financial benefit due to increased demand, but we certainly shouldn't pin all our hopes and dreams on them. What if they never actually get the go ahead? Maybe they will and maybe they won't, but they're certainty not the entire future of bitcoin that's for sure. Regardless, whether they do get accepted or not it is out of our hands so I think we should concern ourselves with spreading adoption in other ways in the meantime and we can only wait and hope they do get accepted at some point.

I agree 100%. We try to keep the neutral way while discussing this subject, but lately Bitcoin ETF has been the number one subject for discussion. Considering everything that you said, what do you think? Will Bitcoin ETF be accepted 100%? (like Andreas says) or is it more doubtful?
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1179
September 05, 2018, 01:30:04 PM
#11
Why haven't they accepted one already as there's been several requests and all have been denied so far. I hope this isn't the case and one will be accepted eventually but I wouldn't put all my money on it.
Currently the main problem is that the majority of the market making happens on exchanges outside the legal reach of the SEC. In case of manipulation, they pretty much can't do anything to combat the bad actors.

If eventually US based volumes grow, and it's no longer unregulated exchanges dominating the whole industry, they'll be more likely to let one come through. From there I believe it's only a matter of time.

I also disagree with you in that I do think it will have a significant effect on bitcoin. We already saw a drop in value when a couple of them were denied before, and I think one finally being given the green light will be very exciting for people and cause increased demand and a price spike.
I don't rule out any initial speculative hype resulting in the price to increase. I was more referring to the actual demand for these ETFs as instrument, which in no shape or form is guaranteed to be of significance.
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 575
Cryptophile at large
September 05, 2018, 07:58:24 AM
#10
Don't get me wrong, I think ETFs are potentially huge for bitcoin and a big step in the right direction for mainstream acceptance and will surely open up doors to more investors and the general public which will obviously all come with financial benefit due to increased demand, but we certainly shouldn't pin all our hopes and dreams on them. What if they never actually get the go ahead? Maybe they will and maybe they won't, but they're certainty not the entire future of bitcoin that's for sure.
An ETF approval is only a matter of time, really. The only point I don't agree with, is the fact that most people blindly assume that an ETF will have a significant impact on the market.

I don't see anyone here ever point out that there might not be much demand for an ETF at all. And then we don't know if the ETF that will be approved will be backed by Bitcoin or not, which is quite an important factor too.

If it's not backed by Bitcoin at all, there will be next to no actual effect on the spot market, even if the demand is significant enough to consider it a successful ETF launch. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

I don't want to sound all that negative, but there is no point to hype up something with no proven track record either. I want Bitcoin to succeed based on legit user demand, and we can definitely work towards that goal slowly but surely.

I'm not so sure it's only a matter of time. They might just think it is too risky and volatile to allow. Why haven't they accepted one already as there's been several requests and all have been denied so far. I hope this isn't the case and one will be accepted eventually but I wouldn't put all my money on it.

I also disagree with you in that I do think it will have a significant effect on bitcoin. We already saw a drop in value when a couple of them were denied before, and I think one finally being given the green light will be very exciting for people and cause increased demand and a price spike. It's probably not going to go to the moon again because of it and I don't think we'll see a new all time high or anything because of it but I think it will be very significant.
hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 753
September 05, 2018, 06:27:28 AM
#9
Hell no. ETFs are only financial instruments which are beneficial to institutional investors and the like.

In no way shape or form are they of any use to the average Joe using bitcoin. The only effect would be the hype created by an approval (which seems extremely unlikely at this stage with SEC continuously rejecting and delaying decisions) which could potentially push prices up in the short term.

There is no long term future to speak of in bitcoin that is held in bitcoin ETFs, that is just stuff made up by media. The SEC is making a judgment on a financial product, not bitcoin itself, remember that.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
September 05, 2018, 04:33:11 AM
#8
No, bitcoin was created as a currency, not for price manipulation. Trading tool is a second time for bitcoin, it will be develop, but it not the future.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1963
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
September 05, 2018, 01:13:16 AM
#7
The short-term benefit of a Bitcoin ETF will be a huge increase in the Bitcoin price, but in my opinion a Bitcoin ETF's long-term impact will be harmful to Bitcoin. We will see a lot more volatility, because much bigger players from Hedge funds will start to invest big amounts of money into these ETFs and they can pull it at any time.  Roll Eyes

The manipulation of the price will go from current Bitcoin Whales to large Hedge funds in Wall Street. A lot of people are against this move, because these Wall Street investors have no long-term vision for Bitcoin, other than making a quick profit.  Angry
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1179
September 04, 2018, 04:00:50 PM
#6
Don't get me wrong, I think ETFs are potentially huge for bitcoin and a big step in the right direction for mainstream acceptance and will surely open up doors to more investors and the general public which will obviously all come with financial benefit due to increased demand, but we certainly shouldn't pin all our hopes and dreams on them. What if they never actually get the go ahead? Maybe they will and maybe they won't, but they're certainty not the entire future of bitcoin that's for sure.
An ETF approval is only a matter of time, really. The only point I don't agree with, is the fact that most people blindly assume that an ETF will have a significant impact on the market.

I don't see anyone here ever point out that there might not be much demand for an ETF at all. And then we don't know if the ETF that will be approved will be backed by Bitcoin or not, which is quite an important factor too.

If it's not backed by Bitcoin at all, there will be next to no actual effect on the spot market, even if the demand is significant enough to consider it a successful ETF launch. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

I don't want to sound all that negative, but there is no point to hype up something with no proven track record either. I want Bitcoin to succeed based on legit user demand, and we can definitely work towards that goal slowly but surely.
full member
Activity: 2520
Merit: 204
OrangeFren.com
September 04, 2018, 09:16:37 AM
#5
Nope but big help for bitcoin if ETF approve by the government  
In my own opinion bitcoin continue to stay string as currency without ETF aproval
Bitcoin supposedly still strongly stand their own ability to become famous currency in the help of the supporters
I still believe The  future of bitcoin in this new era of technology are still continue to grow
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 575
Cryptophile at large
September 04, 2018, 09:11:39 AM
#4
Bitcoin is bigger than these ETFs and bitcoin's future is so much more than just them. Don't get me wrong, I think ETFs are potentially huge for bitcoin and a big step in the right direction for mainstream acceptance and will surely open up doors to more investors and the general public which will obviously all come with financial benefit due to increased demand, but we certainly shouldn't pin all our hopes and dreams on them. What if they never actually get the go ahead? Maybe they will and maybe they won't, but they're certainty not the entire future of bitcoin that's for sure. Regardless, whether they do get accepted or not it is out of our hands so I think we should concern ourselves with spreading adoption in other ways in the meantime and we can only wait and hope they do get accepted at some point.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
September 04, 2018, 08:56:42 AM
#3
I do not think that ETF is the only solution for bitcoin to grow more in future. SEC declined the bitcoin proposal many time still there is no any such positive information for the SEC team. We just ignore those things and go towards to good investment to make money out of it.

How do you believe the ETF is the only thing allow us to find the bump in future.
Since you simply shared news here from your site directly, I would like to see it more. Keep up your good work mate.

Thank you for your feedback. In our opinion, this is simply the Bitcoin infrastructure's way of growing. It needs to touch every field and every market until it finds the best suit. ETF may or may not be the best thing for Bitcoin, who knows?!

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