Topic: [2019-05-20] Poloniex delists 9 cryptos for U.S. traders, they may be securities (Read 437 times)
July 29, 2019, 08:00:35 PM
I forgot the website, however I remember there was an article written there that some ICOs are not applicable under the Howey test because the tokens are the product in those platforms.
July 29, 2019, 04:51:34 PM
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
I only accept that once they ve written down that statement. Given out legal doc like a no action letter. Not having such yet after many ppl tried to imply that eth might not be a security ( it is 100% for sure, easy read from ICO and selling purpose definition) is a strong hint that still fights from eth foundation are on.
requiring a no-action letter as proof makes no sense. the SEC would only write a no-action letter if it were requested by the ethereum foundation. https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersnoactionhtm.html
regulators in the USA don't like to make it easy. the SEC is unlikely to state in a formal document that ether is not a security. the fact that they've publicly stated it's not a security and haven't come after the ETH foundation is pretty strong indication of their position though.
personally, i don't see how ethereum fits #2 and #4 of the howey test. but maybe you can enlighten us.
Nope. The tactics is simple. They ll wait and what business will earn a bounty for them and charge it later . So no big bank with decent risk dept will pick eth for trading. It is a dad cat.
Any bigger move to change protocol by some central dev is the security proof btw
July 29, 2019, 03:52:19 PM
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
I only accept that once they ve written down that statement. Given out legal doc like a no action letter. Not having such yet after many ppl tried to imply that eth might not be a security ( it is 100% for sure, easy read from ICO and selling purpose definition) is a strong hint that still fights from eth foundation are on.
requiring a no-action letter as proof makes no sense. the SEC would only write a no-action letter if it were requested by the ethereum foundation. https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersnoactionhtm.html
regulators in the USA don't like to make it easy. the SEC is unlikely to state in a formal document that ether is not a security. the fact that they've publicly stated it's not a security and haven't come after the ETH foundation is pretty strong indication of their position though.
personally, i don't see how ethereum fits #2 and #4 of the howey test. but maybe you can enlighten us.
July 29, 2019, 03:07:39 PM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
What the SEC chairman said at the time was, "I believe every ICO I’ve seen is a security." It wasn't a blanket statement about the ICO mechanism itself, though he was certainly implying that most ICO tokens are securities.
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
I only accept that once they ve written down that statement. Given out legal doc like a no action letter. Not having such yet after many ppl tried to imply that eth might not be a security ( it is 100% for sure, easy read from ICO and selling purpose definition) is a strong hint that still fights from eth foundation are on.
July 29, 2019, 02:37:01 PM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
What the SEC chairman said at the time was, "I believe every ICO I’ve seen is a security." It wasn't a blanket statement about the ICO mechanism itself, though he was certainly implying that most ICO tokens are securities.
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
July 29, 2019, 01:55:57 PM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Ether might be somewhat different with how it had a long POW history up to where we are today.
XRP on the other hand is a classic security token. It would surprise me if the SEC doesn't officially mark it as such, because it behaves exactly like a stock that bounces up or down based on partnerships and new company developments. Funny thing is that after Jay Clayton's (SEC chairman) interview, Brad Garlinghouse (CEO of Ripple) suddenly started to advertise XRP as being more decentralized than Bitcoin, lol.
The only downside to these delistings is that you can say goodbye to fair price discovery and welcome pump and dump schemes to take over.
July 29, 2019, 07:44:09 AM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
July 29, 2019, 01:03:41 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
hello! you signalled that they are now in bermuda.
https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/
is it effective ?
I am not so certain. The American government's power sometimes extends from its own borders because of their ability to impose sanctions and violence.
Why are you asking? You want Aeon relisted there hehehe?
just curious, trying to understand.
July 28, 2019, 11:02:47 PM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
hello! you signalled that they are now in bermuda.
https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/
is it effective ?
I am not so certain. The American government's power sometimes extends from its own borders because of their ability to impose sanctions and violence.
Why are you asking? You want Aeon relisted there hehehe?
July 28, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
That is not a problem with Poloniex. People are talking like that they have made a mistake or something. They are only following the us law. Probably all the others exchanges that operate in Us will have to make the same. Bittrex has created the international version to scape this rule.
That is right opinion mate, I understand the reaction of the people against poloniex decision to delis 9 coins, the company need to follow the rules of law of the states to protect also their interest and to other customers than government order to stop operating the exchange if not follow the rules of law.
July 27, 2019, 01:29:45 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
hello! you signalled that they are now in bermuda.
https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/
is it effective ?
June 14, 2019, 12:12:12 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
June 12, 2019, 11:49:25 PM
Bittrex has now also released a list of banned cryptocoins in the US of its own. However, none of the coins in Poloniex's list are in it.
Is there different government guidance or what? Or did Bittrex try to adjust it on their own?
It looks funny to see two exchange in the US didn't agree on what coins could be considered as securities. Still, they both agree XRP is not securities.
different legal counsels, different interpretations of the law. there's a lot of grey area with so-called "utility tokens" especially with the SEC offering "no action" relief to let teams prove their tokens aren't securities. since none of this stuff has been fought out in court yet (no precedent), it's all up to individual legal teams to determine how to best mitigate their clients' risk. i worked at a law firm for a few years......every lawyer's got a different opinion on everything. and they all think they're right.
June 12, 2019, 07:17:34 PM
@jonoboini. I reckon each exchange itself and the vip traders and investors who were holding those coins in them, have already dumped them, is the reason for the difference of their lists hehehe.
June 12, 2019, 12:58:35 AM
Bittrex has now also released a list of banned cryptocoins in the US of its own. However, none of the coins in Poloniex's list are in it.
Is there different government guidance or what? Or did Bittrex try to adjust it on their own?
It looks funny to see two exchange in the US didn't agree on what coins could be considered as securities. Still, they both agree XRP is not securities.
June 11, 2019, 08:53:53 PM
Bittrex has now also released a list of banned cryptocoins in the US of its own. However, none of the coins in Poloniex's list are in it.
The following markets will transition to Bittrex International on June 21, 2019.
ADT CMCT GO MFT QRL XEL
AMP DNT GTO MOBI QTUM XNK
BAY DTA HYDRO NLC2 RFR
BCPT ENG IHT NMR STORJ
BLOCK FCT ION PRO STORM
BOX FLDC LBA PTOY SWT
Source https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028996652
The following markets will transition to Bittrex International on June 21, 2019.
ADT CMCT GO MFT QRL XEL
AMP DNT GTO MOBI QTUM XNK
BAY DTA HYDRO NLC2 RFR
BCPT ENG IHT NMR STORJ
BLOCK FCT ION PRO STORM
BOX FLDC LBA PTOY SWT
Source https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028996652
May 22, 2019, 08:49:07 PM
@Slow death Bittrex International is the version of the exchange that is for its customers outside the U.S. I reckon they might have already did their research and the legal work to know that the SEC cannot shut it down.
@Bitholder. Bittrex also lost its whales to Binance hehehe.
@Bitholder. Bittrex also lost its whales to Binance hehehe.
May 22, 2019, 04:32:13 PM
Tristan D'Agosta must be laughing his way all the way to the bank when he sold Poloniex the Dying to Circle hehehe.
I'm sure he does. $400 million for an exchange that lost its whale traders to Bittrex is an absolute joke. Circle very likely bought it with the intention to make Poloniex reach its glory days as top exchange.Poloniex was the shit during the rise of Ethereum. It easily did 100k BTC just on its BTC/ETH pair, and the rest of the coins they had listed did over 100k BTC combined in volume on top of it.
Over 200k BTC in volume per day means a shit ton of fee income. These guys must be sitting somewhere on an island drinking tequilas all day, and I can't blame them for doing so. Circle rekt itself there.
May 22, 2019, 03:39:30 PM
when they ignore the problems of their customers, it just proves they are not afraid of regulators and now they are delists 9 cryptos because they are afraid of US regulators? Why did not I see Bittrex take the same action? according to this:
bittrex are also from the USA and:
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-LSK
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ARDR
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-DCR
aI have not seen them take the same action
Bittrex Incorporated
800 5th Avenue
Ste. 4100
Seattle, WA 98104-3100
Customer Support
800 5th Avenue
Ste. 4100
Seattle, WA 98104-3100
Customer Support
bittrex are also from the USA and:
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-LSK
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ARDR
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-DCR
aI have not seen them take the same action
May 20, 2019, 08:29:01 PM
@IconFirm. Agreed. Tristan D'Agosta must be laughing his way all the way to the bank when he sold Poloniex the Dying to Circle hehehe. Also, the exchange is very slow in times of high trading activity and the support staff are very incompetent and slow.
I thought this would change after Circle's takeover.
I thought this would change after Circle's takeover.
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