[2019-07-05] This Bitcoin money-laundering cartel was operating inside a prison

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: buwaytress on July 09, 2019, 12:30:16 AM

Quote from: BitHodler on July 08, 2019, 07:25:54 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 07, 2019, 07:54:04 PM

Bitcoin and altcoins has made it easier because the market is liquid and cryptocoins are very easy to move, keep and store.

Easier at first glance maybe, but not really if you think about how you can be held responsible for certain transactions even a decade later with how transactions once confirmed are recorded in the ledger for ever.

Now that you mentioned it, I'm actually wondering now if there could at least be some statute of limitations applicable for some things even for immutable records on a blockchain assumed to remain there in perpetuity. At least in the manner of financial compliance, records in most countries are kept only for a period of 7 years, and then can safely be destroyed, precisely because of these statutes. I'm sure of course if you used those funds for certain crimes, you wouldn't escape any pursuit of justice although you'd probably be okay from people trying to pin you down as criminal associates just because you received coins from or your coins were tainted by some unsavoury activity.

This might be because many users had little understanding about bitcoin and blockchains before maybe 2016. They thought bitcoin was this anonymous and fast digital currency hehe. However, what would happen when criminals begin to use Monero.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: Ozero on July 08, 2019, 11:54:10 PM

I see nothing unusual in this news. Almost all inventions of mankind can be used with a criminal purpose. It has always been and it always will be. People sit in prison and try to use the free time that appears to make money. Earn someone as you can. However, almost every use of cryptocurrency with a criminal purpose gets into the news channels. This creates a bad cryptocurrency image.

The mainstream media shapes public opinion. They decide whether an individual, an organization or an asset should be having a positive image or a negative one. If they decide for the latter, then they will publish all sort of negative news and unfortunately a lot of people (especially the middle-aged and the elderly) still relies on mainstream media more than the social media for their daily dose of news.

buwaytress

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Quote from: BitHodler on July 08, 2019, 07:25:54 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 07, 2019, 07:54:04 PM

Bitcoin and altcoins has made it easier because the market is liquid and cryptocoins are very easy to move, keep and store.

Easier at first glance maybe, but not really if you think about how you can be held responsible for certain transactions even a decade later with how transactions once confirmed are recorded in the ledger for ever.

Now that you mentioned it, I'm actually wondering now if there could at least be some statute of limitations applicable for some things even for immutable records on a blockchain assumed to remain there in perpetuity. At least in the manner of financial compliance, records in most countries are kept only for a period of 7 years, and then can safely be destroyed, precisely because of these statutes. I'm sure of course if you used those funds for certain crimes, you wouldn't escape any pursuit of justice although you'd probably be okay from people trying to pin you down as criminal associates just because you received coins from or your coins were tainted by some unsavoury activity.

Ozero

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I see nothing unusual in this news. Almost all inventions of mankind can be used with a criminal purpose. It has always been and it always will be. People sit in prison and try to use the free time that appears to make money. Earn someone as you can. However, almost every use of cryptocurrency with a criminal purpose gets into the news channels. This creates a bad cryptocurrency image.

Sithara007

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2019, 08:01:15 PM

I was referring to the ease of buying and selling because of high liquidity of the market. Alex Ginnick of BTCe has laundered billions of dollars.

Also, agreed. It will be harder with KYC and blockchain analysis. However, this is also where anonymous cryptocoins and decentralized exchanges will find its place and find more liquidity.

You are referring to Alexander Vinnik. At the most he laundered a few tens of millions of USD worth of coins. According to the FBI, he laundered close to one million coins, but most of that was done during 2011-12, when the exchange rate was around $5 per coin. The media just multiplied the number of coins with the exchange rate in 2017, and came up with this crazy valuation.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: BitHodler on July 08, 2019, 07:25:54 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 07, 2019, 07:54:04 PM

Bitcoin and altcoins has made it easier because the market is liquid and cryptocoins are very easy to move, keep and store.

Easier at first glance maybe, but not really if you think about how you can be held responsible for certain transactions even a decade later with how transactions once confirmed are recorded in the ledger for ever.

Firms involved in blockchain analysis are getting better at what they do with every day that goes by, their tools too. I would say that Bitcoin is probably the least favorable option based on that.

By the time people are more educated about how Bitcoin works under the hood, they will refrain from using it to participate in the practice of money laundering and other illegal activities with severe penalties as punishment.

I was referring to the ease of buying and selling because of high liquidity of the market. Alex Ginnick of BTCe has laundered billions of dollars.

Also, agreed. It will be harder with KYC and blockchain analysis. However, this is also where anonymous cryptocoins and decentralized exchanges will find its place and find more liquidity.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: rodel caling on July 07, 2019, 04:58:49 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on July 05, 2019, 10:40:43 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This will happen over and over again , but think about how many of these operations a day is carried out with fiat

The mainstream media still want to paint Bitcoin as a currency of the scamsters and criminals, although the latest data indicates that usage of Bitcoin for illegal purposes have come down from 7% in 2013 to less than 1% in 2019. 99% of the Bitcoin transactions are being used for legal purposes and the mainstream media never highlights it.

Oh wow great analysis mate, We know that medias can't highlight the good news of bitcoin but if bitcoin get people get involve using bitcoin in bad ways they highlights that news speciythe media personality against in crypto as new form of money.

You can check this article yourselves:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-01/bitcoin-criminals-set-to-spend-1-billion-on-dark-web-this-year

See the language that they have used. They have highlighted the slight increase in the overall USD value (that may be due to the increase in net worth of the coins that were already deposited to the dark market wallets). But the most important fact is hidden somewhere in the middle of the article. It sates that:

Quote

Illegal activity has accounted for less than 1% of all Bitcoin activity so far this year -- down from 7% in 2012, according to Hannah Curtis, senior product manager

BitHodler

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 07, 2019, 07:54:04 PM

Bitcoin and altcoins has made it easier because the market is liquid and cryptocoins are very easy to move, keep and store.

Easier at first glance maybe, but not really if you think about how you can be held responsible for certain transactions even a decade later with how transactions once confirmed are recorded in the ledger for ever.

Firms involved in blockchain analysis are getting better at what they do with every day that goes by, their tools too. I would say that Bitcoin is probably the least favorable option based on that.

By the time people are more educated about how Bitcoin works under the hood, they will refrain from using it to participate in the practice of money laundering and other illegal activities with severe penalties as punishment.

joelsamuya

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As for me, bad publicity is always a publicity. We should be thankful that the media is always mentioning bitcoin even in the bad light or in connection with some crimes committed by unscrupulous people. This can highlight more interest in bitcoin and when people start searching for it online they can see the much bigger picture and many can be joining us in the industry. The fact that the media is continually mentioning bitcoin is a big indication that indeed bitcoin is here to stay no matter if the image of it has been tied to criminal activities (we know this is already changing).

Reality speaking though, we have to admit that the bitcoin platform is making it easier for criminals to do their stuffs but this is quite unavoidable because bitcoin could not choose who will be using the currency and this is the same trait with the fiat money. However, since bitcoin is not really anonymous the transaction records are actually making illegal activities easier to investigate and pursue compared to transactions purely using the fiat money. The mere fact that criminals are identified and their activities known in using bitcoin is a big telltale sign.

bbc.reporter

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@buwaytress. It is easier. Money laundering requires buying something to sell back, like paintings, stocks or a house. Bitcoin and altcoins has made it easier because the market is liquid and cryptocoins are very easy to move, keep and store.

rodel caling

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on July 05, 2019, 10:40:43 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This will happen over and over again , but think about how many of these operations a day is carried out with fiat

The mainstream media still want to paint Bitcoin as a currency of the scamsters and criminals, although the latest data indicates that usage of Bitcoin for illegal purposes have come down from 7% in 2013 to less than 1% in 2019. 99% of the Bitcoin transactions are being used for legal purposes and the mainstream media never highlights it.

Oh wow great analysis mate, We know that medias can't highlight the good news of bitcoin but if bitcoin get people get involve using bitcoin in bad ways they highlights that news speciythe media personality against in crypto as new form of money.

buwaytress

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 05, 2019, 08:29:33 PM

However, look how easy money laundering has become without the use of banks because of the cryptospace. You also cannot deny that what we thought was legitimate bitcoin transactions and trades might also be part of a money laundering ring similar to what BTCe has done.

Not sure we can ask Bitcoin and the "crypto space" to claim the credit for easy money laundering. Criminal cartels (and let's use that word as loosely as the article does) have been washing money behind prison bars for as long as systematic prisons have existed.

And see which activity they were profiting from... stolen credit cards. And using commissary accounts. You kind of need banks or at least some kind of centralised financial institution from the old world to facilitate either of those two. Should we now be saying banks issuing credit cards are helping these guys? Or even prisons for creating accounts for them?

bbc.reporter

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@ETFbitcoin. Not anymore, yes. However, money launderers will only become better to evade the law, and I speculate that they might begin slowly moving their volume to Monero and decentralized exchanges and over the counter trading.

Kakmakr

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These criminal must be convicted Bank employees, because most money laundering happens within the Banking industry. In most of these cases, Bank employees work with drug cartels to launder the money for them. Roll Eyes

In the event that these activities are exposed and mentioned in the media, these Banks simply get a slap on the wrist with some small fines and all is forgotten. Bitcoin is used for many other legitimate transactions every day, but that is seldom mentioned, because it does not fit their agenda. Angry

odolvlobo

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 04, 2019, 09:34:12 PM

Authorities in Florida have busted an elaborate operation which saw prison inmates use Bitcoin BTC to launder thousands of dollars via their commissary accounts.

ha ha. They used Bitcoin to launder their lunch money. Sounds like a bunch of kids in middle school to me.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on July 05, 2019, 10:40:43 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This will happen over and over again , but think about how many of these operations a day is carried out with fiat

The mainstream media still want to paint Bitcoin as a currency of the scamsters and criminals, although the latest data indicates that usage of Bitcoin for illegal purposes have come down from 7% in 2013 to less than 1% in 2019. 99% of the Bitcoin transactions are being used for legal purposes and the mainstream media never highlights it.

However, look how easy money laundering has become without the use of banks because of the cryptospace. You also cannot deny that what we thought was legitimate bitcoin transactions and trades might also be part of a money laundering ring similar to what BTCe has done.

roosbit

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I don't like to read such articles because they are always trying to pull bitcoins name in this mess created by regulated organisations....

If there is a culprit in the flow of money then this should be sorted out by the banks as they are the custodians and weakest link, for goodness sake they better integrate address verifications, 2fa and all relevant measures to sweep out the mess.

BitHodler

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on July 05, 2019, 10:40:43 AM

The mainstream media still want to paint Bitcoin as a currency of the scamsters and criminals

They say that Bitcoin isn't and will not be a currency, yet they often refer to it as the currency of the underworld. I don't think they'll ever stop with this nonsense, not even when Bitcoin is worth $100k a pop.

Overall, anything can and will be used for money laundering as long as it convenient and there is demand for it to have it be accepted worldwide. Bitcoin naturally checks these boxes. Not a big deal in my opinion.

Bitcoin is the currency of freedom, and this means that whoever the entity using it is, nothing can be done to prevent that entity from doing so. It shows how powerful Bitcoin is.

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Quote from: Slow death on July 05, 2019, 02:06:47 PM

the news channels related to bitcoin have the habit of exaggerating in the news and always put bitcoin like a great victim of a great conspiracy made by the governments, when this is not always true. look at the article, they talk about:

- Credit cards

- Identity theft

- Bitcoin

they do not just talk about bitcoin, they did not direct the crime to bitcoin

But the headlines are suggesting it. Angry

The article is written to make us think bitcoin is responsible.

Quote

inmates use Bitcoin BTC to launder thousands of dollars

They did not use bitcoin to launder money. They used bitcoin to buy stolen cards and used those cards to later take credit in the owner's name or send money to inmates without revealing their identity so that they cannot be associated with them.

We should ask why the owners of those stolen credit cards did not report them stolen to lock them. Such cards can also be bought with cash. We don't know how many were bought with bitcoins!

Slow death

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the news channels related to bitcoin have the habit of exaggerating in the news and always put bitcoin like a great victim of a great conspiracy made by the governments, when this is not always true. look at the article, they talk about:

- Credit cards

- Identity theft

- Bitcoin

they do not just talk about bitcoin, they did not direct the crime to bitcoin

Topic: [2019-07-05] This Bitcoin money-laundering cartel was operating inside a prison (Read 392 times)