[2019-10-10] US SEC Rejects Bitwise Bitcoin ETF Proposal

BitHodler

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Quote from: 1Referee on October 17, 2019, 05:33:37 PM

I'm pretty sure that CME and Bakkt will play a very important role in the approval of an ETF, and then mainly regarding the volumes they generate and the honest price discovery that happens on these platforms.

CME maybe. Bakkt definitely not. Bakkt has failed and will be reduced to a meme, which it already is to some lower degree. I don't understand why people still try to make it look like a fundamentally important development.

It's better to move on and focus on developments such as taproot+schnorr implementation. It will be a moment to actually celebrate as these are big fundamental developments that add utility to Bitcoin.

Bakkt has done nothing but offer traders a reason to short the news of Bakkt going live. People who did so ended up making a good bit of money, while fundamentalists believing in Bakkt and their impact got nothing at all.

1Referee

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 13, 2019, 09:50:47 PM

So many years have passed and by now it is clear that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission will never approve an ETF even if it is having a remote connection with any of the cryptocurrencies. Everytime they come up with new excuses.

They don't come up with excuses. All their reasons for rejecting these ETF's are valid considering how big the ETF market in the US is, plus there is a lot of shady shit going on with Tether, overseas exchanges reporting huge amounts of fake volumes, etc.

I'm pretty sure that CME and Bakkt will play a very important role in the approval of an ETF, and then mainly regarding the volumes they generate and the honest price discovery that happens on these platforms. It will not happen any time soon, but I would say that the chances are pretty high that we get it within 5 years from now.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 13, 2019, 09:50:47 PM

But seriously, who need these ETFs now? I don't think that it is that difficult to store Bitcoins by yourself. You need ETFs for gold, platinum.etc, because it is very risky and expensive to store these assets. The case is different with Bitcoin.

It might not be a difficult task for you to store a few k worth of Bitcoin, but what do you expect an institution or a wealthy individual to do when the amounts are in the multi millions? They rather use a regulated instrument where they don't have to worry about storage, theft, etc.

Crypto as a whole is nowhere near user friendly enough to onboard the mass. An ETF helps a lot in that regard.

Saint-loup

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I don't think those motivations are new, and it was highly predictable the Bitwise submission won't be accepted.
But I think when Bakkt will show more volume, an ETF approval will become unavoidable.

bryant.coleman

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Cryptocurrency users need to move on. So many years have passed and by now it is clear that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission will never approve an ETF even if it is having a remote connection with any of the cryptocurrencies. Everytime they come up with new excuses. But seriously, who need these ETFs now? I don't think that it is that difficult to store Bitcoins by yourself. You need ETFs for gold, platinum.etc, because it is very risky and expensive to store these assets. The case is different with Bitcoin.

magneto

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I remember that it was just a few days ago that some major mainstream news outlet (Forbes, I believe?) that reportedly stated that we're closer to an ETF approval than ever. And look how that prediction aged, not very well, aye?

People seem to think that this was something out of the ordinary, but it really isn't.

The truth is, the markets have stopped caring for ETF approvals altogether and there is only ripples of what the splash ETF news once made within the market. It really doesn't matter whether or not one actually gets approved, because people now realise that theshe ETFs are made to benefit institutional investors more than anyone else anyhow.

rodel caling

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This is it what I am excpected from the US security and exchange commission atleast we know the result of the decisoin of the US government than to wait a lot of time about the proposal. I still believe without the aproval bitcoin are still exist and strong virtual currency.

InvoKing

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Quote from: febriyana on October 10, 2019, 08:33:48 AM

Bitcoin is highly manipulated in the price, also they can't really control it. US SEC also protect Fiat, they hate or fear about cryptocurrency.

I don't agree with the word "manipulated", I prefer high "volatility" which makes it hard to predict but also very profitable for some.
For the Fiat thing, yeah...they will delay this until they find a profitable alternative.

Harlot

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Even if they have the necessary requirements submitted they will just find a way to extend and extend the deadline until people forget all about it. Just like what they are doing with VanEck and Wilshire which was two of the three currently still in play for the Bitcoin ETFs. We should have noticed it by now that the SEC is just playing with us with all of this nonsense rules that even if they fulfill the requirements they will still have a reason to reject it. I don't know about you but I'm not really hyped by the possibilities of Bitcoin ETFs anymore I'll just believe it when it is already approved.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: buwaytress on October 10, 2019, 07:36:24 AM

Tell you what, though. Better they reject this now and get it all done and buried... rather than approve it, and then we get Bakkt Part Deux.

you mean a news selloff? that happens when everyone already knows the news is coming. that's what "buy the rumor sell the news" means. in this case, the market would be completely blindsided by an ETF approval so i'd expect a more bullish reaction.

Quote from: buwaytress on October 10, 2019, 07:36:24 AM

The deep pockets wanting to get into Bitcoin already have (OTC). There's very little reason for them to want to get into ETFs if they're purely out to speculate, given they already have CME and others to do that.

Tell me I'm wrong =)

the carrying costs of an ETF are cheap as hell. it's way more attractive than the OTC market, where custody is a major sticking point for wall street dinosaurs. they are also built for long term investment unlike futures.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: error08 on October 10, 2019, 07:15:32 AM

It has been set on the stone since the beginning, SEC will not accept bitcoin ETF.
They have good reasons to reject it, market manipulation, fraudulent, illicit activities, all the same reasons.
However, there are some ETF proposals submitted to SEC, even bitwise will refile their bitcoin ETFs application soon.

From what I have heard, they will not get the approval as long as they can prove that 2/3rd of the daily trade volume comes from exchanges that can't be manipulated. And with most of the trade volume concentrated in exchanges such as Binance, I don't think that it can be realized anytime soon. Perhaps we need to admit that the SEC is never going to approve any Bitcoin ETF and it will be better to spend that time instead on something productive.

BitHodler

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Quote from: febriyana on October 10, 2019, 08:33:48 AM

Bitcoin is highly manipulated in the price, also they can't really control it.

What makes you think Bitcoin's price is highly manipulated? The only obvious form of manipulation we see take place is volume manipulation by mainly Asian exchanges to get a higher rank on sites such as CMC.

These exchanges in no shape or form contribute to price discovery, so they are just there doing their thing, but the SEC looks at the bigger picture and considers these exchanges faul players. It's a risk they don't consider worth taking.

Overall, the price will go up with or without an ETF. People need to stop thinking that an ETF will be the $100k catalyst that makes them rich. The get rich quick time is over.

febriyana

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Febriyana Muhammad

Bitcoin is highly manipulated in the price, also they can't really control it. US SEC also protect Fiat, they hate or fear about cryptocurrency.
That is some reason US SEC will always reject it.
I think that is doesn't give any effect for the bitcoin price in the future.

1Referee

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Quote from: timerland on October 09, 2019, 11:52:53 PM

Haha, I knew it. There was so much hype around this times ETF and even though I got a bit more hopeful then last time, it was pretty obvious that it wouldn't get approved, like the last couple of times it's happened.

What hype? People haven't ever been this bearish when it comes to an ETF approval.

I have seen some people come up with conspiracy theories as to why the SEC is rejecting Bitcoin ETF's, but that's just Bitcoiners feeling that every government body is working against them, which isn't the case. The SEC is EXTREMELY strict and selective when it comes to approving ETF's, not just Bitcoin ETF's, but all types. Depending on the asset and the oversight possibilities, it can take up to 5 years for the SEC to finally award you an approval.

I'm sure it will happen eventually for Bitcoin, but not any time soon. When it does happen, it's crystal clear for any applicant what to do in order to have an ETF approved, and that will lead to a flood of ETF's all trying to get you to buy into it. The future looks bright.

DaveWave

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We are expecting this already. Although it is normal that some of us are disappointed because Bakkt was fully approved and was launched already just more than 2 weeks ago. Anyway, we hope that there will be a major drop down in prices because of this. And halving is on the way so most of us will be bullish on bitcoin until then. Maybe ETF gets approved when all bitcoins are mined already which I hope not. Cheesy

Kyraishi

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I mean what could we expect? It's failed the last couple of times it's been tried and I don't know who would have expected anything else this time round.

I agree with Kakmakr, they won't ever approve this ETF deal because they won't be able to control the markets or anything in general, and they are all about having control.

It's sad to see important things being handicapped by the SEC, but that's just how the cookie crumbles.

buwaytress

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Tell you what, though. Better they reject this now and get it all done and buried... rather than approve it, and then we get Bakkt Part Deux.

Impossible for any product now to get any kind of traction. The deep pockets wanting to get into Bitcoin already have (OTC). There's very little reason for them to want to get into ETFs if they're purely out to speculate, given they already have CME and others to do that.

Tell me I'm wrong =)

Mahanton

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Quote from: Kakmakr on October 10, 2019, 02:16:53 AM

You guys should have known by now that the SEC is just the puppets of the puppet masters that are protecting the traditional financial institutions. These institutions are rigged so that there people can manipulate the markets in their favor and that other people who are not part of the inner circle, would lose money. Angry

They cannot handle the fact that they cannot manipulate the Bitcoin price alone and that is why they are using this as an excuse to stop the ETF proposal from being approved. Angry

On first delay of this ETF approval is somewhat considerable but they've been doing this over and over again when it comes to delays.

Why they cant just tell that they wont approve any ETF Proposal in the future so that these dramas and expectation would be completely cut-off?

error08

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It has been set on the stone since the beginning, SEC will not accept bitcoin ETF.
They have good reasons to reject it, market manipulation, fraudulent, illicit activities, all the same reasons.
However, there are some ETF proposals submitted to SEC, even bitwise will refile their bitcoin ETFs application soon.

hatshepsut93

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I think most traders have already expected that it will get rejected, the SEC has many times already sent the signal that they won't approve any Bitcoin ETF until Bitcoin markets can be considered regulated. The price barely even dropped today, while in the last year we had noticeable crashes every time an ETF was rejected, so the market was ready for this outcome.

Kakmakr

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You guys should have known by now that the SEC is just the puppets of the puppet masters that are protecting the traditional financial institutions. These institutions are rigged so that there people can manipulate the markets in their favor and that other people who are not part of the inner circle, would lose money. Angry

They cannot handle the fact that they cannot manipulate the Bitcoin price alone and that is why they are using this as an excuse to stop the ETF proposal from being approved. Angry

Topic: [2019-10-10] US SEC Rejects Bitwise Bitcoin ETF Proposal (Read 231 times)