Topic: [2019-12-18] Two more bitcoin firms shutdown over impending EU money-laundering (Read 434 times)
December 30, 2019, 09:14:59 PM
AML is the foremost reason for KYC. And this is enforced by the government without compromise. It effectively kills the anonymous factor of exchanges. I hope there is still a BTC or two minimum for unverified accounts. This is the EU saying you need to bend or you face the risk of breaking.
December 27, 2019, 05:07:36 PM
I'm talking about huge exchanges like BitMEX and Poloniex, not casinos and darknet markets. I don't believe we've ever seen exchanges -- who generally have some AML policy in place -- restricted in that way.
Binance has frozen some coins sent from Wex, other than that I wouldn't be surprised if some exchanges, say, Bitstamp viewed a user who would send coins from Binance with more suspicion, they just wouldn't necessarily tell anyone about it.
That Binance/Wex situation was different. Customers were alleging that coins deposited to Binance (from Wex's cold wallets) were stolen from them, so Binance temporarily froze the associated accounts and asked for those customers to file police reports. They have a whole policy for dealing with these types of allegations.
The situation I'm concerned about is more like Binance freezing/investigating all accounts receiving any deposits from Wex -- or BitMEX, Poloniex, etc.
December 27, 2019, 04:56:07 PM
I'm talking about huge exchanges like BitMEX and Poloniex, not casinos and darknet markets. I don't believe we've ever seen exchanges -- who generally have some AML policy in place -- restricted in that way.
Binance has frozen some coins sent from Wex, other than that I wouldn't be surprised if some exchanges, say, Bitstamp viewed a user who would send coins from Binance with more suspicion, they just wouldn't necessarily tell anyone about it.
December 27, 2019, 04:36:24 PM
My primary concern with platforms registering in the Seychelles and similar jurisdictions so they can continue avoiding AML/KYC is that the industry is creating a two-tiered system. Is it possible that the whitelisted exchanges -- the Coinbases, Geminis, and Bitstamps -- will begin restricting deposits from non-compliant platforms? That creates huge fungibility issues.
Already has been the case for quite a while now, coins from mixers, coinjoin, wasabi, gambling sites or a dnm can trigger an account freeze.
I'm talking about huge exchanges like BitMEX and Poloniex, not casinos and darknet markets. I don't believe we've ever seen exchanges -- who generally have some AML policy in place -- restricted in that way.
December 27, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
My primary concern with platforms registering in the Seychelles and similar jurisdictions so they can continue avoiding AML/KYC is that the industry is creating a two-tiered system. Is it possible that the whitelisted exchanges -- the Coinbases, Geminis, and Bitstamps -- will begin restricting deposits from non-compliant platforms? That creates huge fungibility issues.
Already has been the case for quite a while now, coins from mixers, coinjoin, wasabi, gambling sites or a dnm can trigger an account freeze.
However, there are some minimum amounts that will be allowed under the new directive (50-150 EUR), so you may still be able to trade small amounts without KYC.
As long as transaction fees are low, that is, or even that will stop making sense.
December 26, 2019, 07:24:00 PM
On one hand this is stupid because if they aren't allowing people to exchange coins to fiat money they shouldn't undergo AML regulations because no laundering can take place.
Laundering just means disguising the source of illicit proceeds. Swapping them for different currencies without revealing your identity seems like a fine way to do that.
That is if you consider cryptocurrencies to be money. If I get wow gold by hacking someone's account and not disclose what I did is it going to be money laundering? I'd say no because wow gold is not money. And it's no different from some shitcoin because you can sell wow gold and swap it into fiat if you really want. Maybe when you do that it becomes money laundering. To me it's all semantics.
The US gov would like to first make the law ambiguous enough so it can be interpreted in at least 10 different ways and then charge people for breaking it.
December 25, 2019, 10:37:51 AM
Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
i assume you're referring to the privacy features of the lightning network, or maybe the future integration of schnorr signatures?
bitcoin and BSV are both getting regulated to hell regardless of these privacy features, so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. regulations like the 5th AML directive capture all cryptocurrencies under the same umbrella. BSV exchanges and custodial wallets are screwed just the same as everyone else.
There is a real diff in terms of purpose and governance / roadmap and compliance help on due dilligence tasks. Keep it easy simple stupid.
KISS
That makes a huge difference where I see only one solution winning that race.
https://thecurrencyanalytics.com/8898/bitcoin-sv-shows-potential-to-restore-the-original-version-of-bitcoin-sydney-ifergan/
December 25, 2019, 09:39:14 AM
crypto firms who want to obey regulations will sooner or later have to meet such fate. with rise in popularity of bitcoin we will see more such strict regulations coming into place. regulations and crypto are two enemies. lets see who wins
Quote
A notice on the Simplecoin website reads that it is closing down on Jan. 1 because the new rules will require the firm to implement several anti-money laundering (AML) know-your-customer (KYC) requirements and it is against those to protect users' privacy.
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/50613/two-more-crypto-firms-shutting-down-over-impending-eu-money-laundering-rules
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/50613/two-more-crypto-firms-shutting-down-over-impending-eu-money-laundering-rules
December 24, 2019, 11:20:03 PM
@figmentofmyass. I think that hv_ might be drunk on a christmas party hehehe. I am shaking my head while reading his reply to me 5 times.
December 24, 2019, 02:18:40 PM
Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
i assume you're referring to the privacy features of the lightning network, or maybe the future integration of schnorr signatures?
bitcoin and BSV are both getting regulated to hell regardless of these privacy features, so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. regulations like the 5th AML directive capture all cryptocurrencies under the same umbrella. BSV exchanges and custodial wallets are screwed just the same as everyone else.
December 24, 2019, 04:05:16 AM
Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
What does it mean to scale the original transparent bitcoin industrial way? How would it make bitcoin avoid the regulations?
Not avoid but stay seamless and compliant.
You know what 'purpose' means in legal terms?
Dont fuck up open financial relevant protocols.
December 23, 2019, 09:27:10 PM
Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
What does it mean to scale the original transparent bitcoin industrial way? How would it make bitcoin avoid the regulations?
December 23, 2019, 03:15:56 PM
I think there can be no exceptions, the laws will apply to anyone doing business in the European Union. There are three options, adjusting to new laws, terminating your business, or moving to another country. Although running away from the law only delays the inevitable, as there are fewer and fewer locations to work in the financial sector without KYC.
My primary concern with platforms registering in the Seychelles and similar jurisdictions so they can continue avoiding AML/KYC is that the industry is creating a two-tiered system. Is it possible that the whitelisted exchanges -- the Coinbases, Geminis, and Bitstamps -- will begin restricting deposits from non-compliant platforms? That creates huge fungibility issues.
On one hand this is stupid because if they aren't allowing people to exchange coins to fiat money they shouldn't undergo AML regulations because no laundering can take place.
Laundering just means disguising the source of illicit proceeds. Swapping them for different currencies without revealing your identity seems like a fine way to do that.
December 23, 2019, 11:06:26 AM
Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere
Told ya
December 23, 2019, 08:58:59 AM
On one hand this is stupid because if they aren't allowing people to exchange coins to fiat money they shouldn't undergo AML regulations because no laundering can take place.
On the other, since they are required to do KYC anyway, they could add an exchange options to their services. Now they can offer cloud mining, pool mining, and so on, with an option to exchange mined coins to fiat on site, making it faster and easier for their customers. It's important to find silver lining and adapt.
On the other, since they are required to do KYC anyway, they could add an exchange options to their services. Now they can offer cloud mining, pool mining, and so on, with an option to exchange mined coins to fiat on site, making it faster and easier for their customers. It's important to find silver lining and adapt.
December 23, 2019, 06:35:15 AM
Any company serving EU residents will need to implement KYC now?
If that's the case, I'm surprised we haven't heard more from exchanges. I hope we don't see a rash of hastily added KYC policies next month.
If that's the case, I'm surprised we haven't heard more from exchanges. I hope we don't see a rash of hastily added KYC policies next month.
I think there can be no exceptions, the laws will apply to anyone doing business in the European Union. There are three options, adjusting to new laws, terminating your business, or moving to another country. Although running away from the law only delays the inevitable, as there are fewer and fewer locations to work in the financial sector without KYC.
Binance already has a branch that operates under the mandatory KYC (https://www.binance.je/en), so it is very possible that they will simply introduce KYC to Binance Europe, and give some time to everyone to do it or withdraw their funds. However, there are some minimum amounts that will be allowed under the new directive (50-150 EUR), so you may still be able to trade small amounts without KYC.
December 22, 2019, 09:09:37 PM
I haven't heard any of the major exchanges, or anywhere really, mention this. Presumably that means they've taken it in their stride? If it's that onerous and that soon I expect to have heard a great deal more about it than I have.
They might be taking it in stride not to hesitate in giving their users' private data to anyone that demands it under law hehe.
December 22, 2019, 03:21:01 PM
Malta is a full member of the European Union and I don't see how it could stay out of reach of AMLD5. If they want to do business within the EU, they will need to adjust to a new directive.
There have been rumors floating around since the beginning of the year that Binance might be planning to leave Malta. It sounds like it's not just a question of leaving Malta, though. Any company serving EU residents will need to implement KYC now?
If that's the case, I'm surprised we haven't heard more from exchanges. I hope we don't see a rash of hastily added KYC policies next month.
December 21, 2019, 09:24:30 AM
does this apply only to EU-based operations? or also to offshore companies that serve EU customers?
i've seen surprisingly little discussion about the exact consequences this will have for the industry. i've just seen that a few EU-based companies are shutting down and deribit (the netherlands) are implementing KYC. i'm hoping exchanges like binance, bitmex, kucoin, etc will hold the line and stay KYC-free. binance is based in malta so i'm wondering if they'll jump jurisdictions soon as they have so many times before.
I cannot say with certainty how this will affect companies like Binance, but Malta is a full member of the European Union and I don't see how it could stay out of reach of AMLD5. If they want to do business within the EU, they will need to adjust to a new directive. It's not just AMLD5, but also AMLD6 directive which brings 5 more amendments and has yet to enter the approval process of EU member states.i've seen surprisingly little discussion about the exact consequences this will have for the industry. i've just seen that a few EU-based companies are shutting down and deribit (the netherlands) are implementing KYC. i'm hoping exchanges like binance, bitmex, kucoin, etc will hold the line and stay KYC-free. binance is based in malta so i'm wondering if they'll jump jurisdictions soon as they have so many times before.
European lawmakers seem to have decided to deal with every form of anonymity in the financial business, which is likely to cause some companies to change their place of business.
December 20, 2019, 03:59:58 PM
I'm sure that if they continue to be so annoying we will see a trend of an exodus of companies that will prefer to go elsewhere, where they will not be so annoyed. And it's quite understandable from a business point of view
Problem is, sooner or later other countries will start getting pressured to adopt these new regulations, too, both overtly and covertly (if it hasn't already started).
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