[2020-04-04] Class-action lawsuits filed against 11 Bitcoin companies

malevolent

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 09, 2020, 06:20:31 PM

i won't rule out the possibility, but it's still pure conjecture. if the SEC and/or FINCEN wanted to take them down on much bigger criminal charges, i could see it. then the DOS and DOJ would get involved and pressure foreign governments.

absent that, i don't see why the USA government would give a shit at all about these alleged victims or these cases. i don't believe for a second that they just intervene in any and every civil ambulance chasing lawsuit in foreign jurisdictions, especially during these times.

i think it's exactly what @gentlemand said: this is the equivalent of patent trolling. they just want an easy payday, settled out of court. scumbag litigation lawyers, doing what they do best.

I hope you're right. I'm just used to seeing the most influential countries (USA nowadays, Russia less so nowadays than in the past) or organizations (EU, UN, etc.) either act shadily or in an authoritarian manner to have things done in other countries as their whim dictates.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: malevolent on April 09, 2020, 05:31:58 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 09, 2020, 05:17:56 AM

who's gonna pressure them, the american government? why would they do that?

Yes. To show who's in charge, to set an example, to make sure even foreign companies learn to toe the line. It could all be behind the scenes and we may not learn of it until much later if ever.

i won't rule out the possibility, but it's still pure conjecture. if the SEC and/or FINCEN wanted to take them down on much bigger criminal charges, i could see it. then the DOS and DOJ would get involved and pressure foreign governments.

absent that, i don't see why the USA government would give a shit at all about these alleged victims or these cases. i don't believe for a second that they just intervene in any and every civil ambulance chasing lawsuit in foreign jurisdictions, especially during these times.

i think it's exactly what @gentlemand said: this is the equivalent of patent trolling. they just want an easy payday, settled out of court. scumbag litigation lawyers, doing what they do best.

malevolent

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 09, 2020, 05:17:56 AM

who's gonna pressure them, the american government? why would they do that?

Yes. To show who's in charge, to set an example, to make sure even foreign companies learn to toe the line. It could all be behind the scenes and we may not learn of it until much later if ever.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 08, 2020, 11:19:12 PM

Why has no one filed lawsuits on the most centralized platform in the cryptospace? Ripple. I reckon XRP is the easiest token of all to be classified as an illegal security.

there's actually an open class action lawsuit against ripple, filed in california. ripple's attorneys tried to have it thrown out in february but their arguments were rejected and the case will move forward: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/californian-judge-will-let-xrp-lawsuit-to-proceed-against-ripple-5229385

Quote from: malevolent on April 09, 2020, 04:50:33 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 08, 2020, 04:43:27 PM

what is the protocol for this in civil cases? mutual legal assistance treaties/agreements are negotiated between the department of state and target countries in regards to criminal matters. even so, i don't think the seychelles (where bitmex and binance are registered) has any such agreement with the USA.

Apparently there are some ways from brief googling but in this case it would be impossible or near impossible... and that's where pressuring the country comes in, after all Seychelles is only a tiny country with a GDP of ~$1.5B.

who's gonna pressure them, the american government? why would they do that?

malevolent

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 08, 2020, 04:43:27 PM

what is the protocol for this in civil cases? mutual legal assistance treaties/agreements are negotiated between the department of state and target countries in regards to criminal matters. even so, i don't think the seychelles (where bitmex and binance are registered) has any such agreement with the USA.

Apparently there are some ways from brief googling but in this case it would be impossible or near impossible... and that's where pressuring the country comes in, after all Seychelles is only a tiny country with a GDP of ~$1.5B.

hv_

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 08, 2020, 11:19:12 PM

Why has no one filed lawsuits on the most centralized platform in the cryptospace? Ripple. I reckon XRP is the easiest token of all to be classified as an illegal security.

The answer might be political connections hehehe.

yep - its not even a crypto thing - but the only way for US to potentially replace all global payment networks like SWIFT .. with a (non-crypto) central US solution ....

it is a security - but must have som hdden agenda / supporters - playing the 'crypto-community' - global innovation game

bbc.reporter

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Why has no one filed lawsuits on the most centralized platform in the cryptospace? Ripple. I reckon XRP is the easiest token of all to be classified as an illegal security.

The answer might be political connections hehehe.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 08, 2020, 04:43:27 PM

part of me wonders if this is almost purely a bluff on the part of the plaintiffs. if the cost of settling is low enough, the companies may be happy to settle just to avoid bad PR.

I assumed that was their prime objective, not that I'm qualified to guess shit. I thought it might be the equivalent of patent trolling.

Presumably any sizeable crypto business is hit with frivolous stuff like this on a regular basis, though it gets less publicity. I doubt any of them would want to set any type of precedent by caving to no marks for the sake of a quiet life.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: malevolent on April 08, 2020, 02:07:37 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 07, 2020, 06:01:47 PM

i have a hard enough time fathoming the USA government being able to collect from bitmex or binance. hiding in africa, the carribean, east asia etc and all their money is cryptocurrency held in encrypted wallets.

so even if they win (i'm not sure it's a slam dunk either) how does this law firm plan to collect civil judgments from crypto-only companies hiding offshore? the whole thing almost seems laughable, but maybe i'm missing something.

If they get whatever jurisdiction they're hiding at to cooperate, I'm sure it would be possible. Bitmex or Binance are still after all trying do the bare minimum to be recognized as legitimate enterprises, they aren't SR or Alphabay, if they face enough pressure they'll pay.

what is the protocol for this in civil cases? mutual legal assistance treaties/agreements are negotiated between the department of state and target countries in regards to criminal matters. even so, i don't think the seychelles (where bitmex and binance are registered) has any such agreement with the USA.

part of me wonders if this is almost purely a bluff on the part of the plaintiffs. if the cost of settling is low enough, the companies may be happy to settle just to avoid bad PR.

malevolent

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 07, 2020, 06:01:47 PM

i have a hard enough time fathoming the USA government being able to collect from bitmex or binance. hiding in africa, the carribean, east asia etc and all their money is cryptocurrency held in encrypted wallets.

so even if they win (i'm not sure it's a slam dunk either) how does this law firm plan to collect civil judgments from crypto-only companies hiding offshore? the whole thing almost seems laughable, but maybe i'm missing something.

If they get whatever jurisdiction they're hiding at to cooperate, I'm sure it would be possible. Bitmex or Binance are still after all trying do the bare minimum to be recognized as legitimate enterprises, they aren't SR or Alphabay, if they face enough pressure they'll pay.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: hv_ on April 07, 2020, 01:40:58 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 06, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

@hv_. Agreed, the American government can do a lot, however, why have they not done anything to the more than 1000 cryptocoins, altcoins, scamcoins, ICO tokens and more?

I reckon a lot might only be few.

Ramping up - get them educated,... they do a lot, but they are split quite a lot SEC, CFTC, NY BitLicence, ....

And sure, they need to adjust / collude a bit with EU / ... to make things happen global. That all takes time and is coming next 1-2 y

Many people also said that it was coming in the next 1 or 2 years on 2015. However, the next 1 or 2 years saw the biggest pumps in the cryptospace hehehe.

On 2018 - 2019, the SEC begun accepting payment as fees to continue from EOS and other ICO projects. It never came. It would only give power to the SEC to choose which projects they like to continue and which they do not like, however hehehe.

figmentofmyass

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i have a hard enough time fathoming the USA government being able to collect from bitmex or binance. hiding in africa, the carribean, east asia etc and all their money is cryptocurrency held in encrypted wallets.

so even if they win (i'm not sure it's a slam dunk either) how does this law firm plan to collect civil judgments from crypto-only companies hiding offshore? the whole thing almost seems laughable, but maybe i'm missing something.

buwaytress

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Funny I missed this bit of news. Reckon it's a lot of butthurt people who bought into token sales across all of them platforms at what they thought were discount prices, and then got ripped up when listing day came. Haven't followed much of the ICO/STO/IEO business since 2018 but all those names almost always lost investors money, even Binance got rid of almost their entire IEO pairs recently, didn't they?

hv_

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 06, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

@hv_. Agreed, the American government can do a lot, however, why have they not done anything to the more than 1000 cryptocoins, altcoins, scamcoins, ICO tokens and more?

I reckon a lot might only be few.

Ramping up - get them educated,... they do a lot, but they are split quite a lot SEC, CFTC, NY BitLicence, ....

And sure, they need to adjust / collude a bit with EU / ... to make things happen global. That all takes time and is coming next 1-2 y

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@hv_. Agreed, the American government can do a lot, however, why have they not done anything to the more than 1000 cryptocoins, altcoins, scamcoins, ICO tokens and more?

I reckon a lot might only be few.

Harlot

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A lawsuit handled by a US firm, Roche Cyrulnik Freedman, and their defendants are from 11 different countries not counting USA? If this firm even for real? How did they manage to get 42 defendants in 11 countries just to sue this companies? Are they really that desperate for money that now they are scouting people outside of the US just to sue them, I mean outside of the USA most exchanges doesn't even need to have a license to offer up a STO like token in other countries so why are they targeting this? I would understand their lawsuit against TRON but I won't take in consideration the exchanges involved here especially when Binance recently just got back in the US.

hv_

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Clean Code and Scale

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 05, 2020, 11:36:28 PM

Quote from: hv_ on April 05, 2020, 02:18:05 AM

Big thing / diff link https://www.theblockcrypto.com/amp/post/60930/top-crypto-exchanges-token-issuers-named-in-friday-barrage-of-u-s-class-action-lawsuits

.... "They separately name Binance, Civic, BProtocol, Status, Block.one, KayDex, Quantstamp, BiBox, TRON Foundation, KuCoin, HDR Global Trading, and many of their principals, including crypto notables such as Brendan Blumer, Dan Larimer, Vinny Lingham, and Binance founder Changpeng ("CZ") Zhao. "

How many of them have the funding to pay for good layers and reduce the case into a settlement and a fee payment for the SEC?

Quote from: hv_ on April 05, 2020, 07:57:42 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on April 05, 2020, 04:56:39 AM

Such cases can take years if aimed at local companies. When you're suing offshore firms it's going to be a pain for the court to be able to schedule hearings and such and for the prosecutors to go through all the translations. They must be aware that defendants will hide behind their local laws and will keep delaying everything.
This case is just for show IMO, unless they want to keep coming to court for the next couple years.

The main problem of the US and their law is that while all countries believe that if your citizens go somewhere and buy something, they need to check if it's fine with their local law. So if you buy a gun in an online store and your country doesn't allow guns, you will have to take responsibility for it and possibly face a fine and lose the gun.
The US law makes it so that if someone buys a restricted item online, it's the fault of the seller. The seller should have asked where the client is from and be aware of all the US laws and regulations. Tell me this isn't crazy.

The latest case around telegram coin say sth different, it's not enough to just exclude US tax payer

However, the developers have declared that they will still turn on their platform and issue the tokens. What can America do?

Source https://cointelegraph.com/news/ton-community-no-one-can-prevent-the-launch-of-ton

a lot - finance - usd - big banks - powers and networks - legals - economy - ...

still US is leader here, or do you see that different?

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: hv_ on April 05, 2020, 02:18:05 AM

Big thing / diff link https://www.theblockcrypto.com/amp/post/60930/top-crypto-exchanges-token-issuers-named-in-friday-barrage-of-u-s-class-action-lawsuits

.... "They separately name Binance, Civic, BProtocol, Status, Block.one, KayDex, Quantstamp, BiBox, TRON Foundation, KuCoin, HDR Global Trading, and many of their principals, including crypto notables such as Brendan Blumer, Dan Larimer, Vinny Lingham, and Binance founder Changpeng ("CZ") Zhao. "

How many of them have the funding to pay for good layers and reduce the case into a settlement and a fee payment for the SEC?

Quote from: hv_ on April 05, 2020, 07:57:42 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on April 05, 2020, 04:56:39 AM

Such cases can take years if aimed at local companies. When you're suing offshore firms it's going to be a pain for the court to be able to schedule hearings and such and for the prosecutors to go through all the translations. They must be aware that defendants will hide behind their local laws and will keep delaying everything.
This case is just for show IMO, unless they want to keep coming to court for the next couple years.

The main problem of the US and their law is that while all countries believe that if your citizens go somewhere and buy something, they need to check if it's fine with their local law. So if you buy a gun in an online store and your country doesn't allow guns, you will have to take responsibility for it and possibly face a fine and lose the gun.
The US law makes it so that if someone buys a restricted item online, it's the fault of the seller. The seller should have asked where the client is from and be aware of all the US laws and regulations. Tell me this isn't crazy.

The latest case around telegram coin say sth different, it's not enough to just exclude US tax payer

However, the developers have declared that they will still turn on their platform and issue the tokens. What can America do?

Source https://cointelegraph.com/news/ton-community-no-one-can-prevent-the-launch-of-ton

gentlemand

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I can't say I'd be desperately sad if any of those joints or projects were cleaned out and subsequently fucked off for good. They won't of course. There's no word on who's instigated or joined it. Who is it?

crwth

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I understand the lawsuit filed with BitMEX, with them acting as like a "casino" in terms of the "manipulations" of the market in their site. Having them take the website offline that liquidated high leveraged positions. But with others just trading different tokens, EOS, TRX, etc. Why would the Bitcoin companies have no licensing in the first place? They have just started it themselves, I guess.

Topic: [2020-04-04] Class-action lawsuits filed against 11 Bitcoin companies (Read 351 times)