Topic: [2020-05-16] Pine64 Drops BitPay Before First Bitcoin Payment (Read 387 times)

Ahh my apologies, I misread that as "Why do folks not recommend Bitpay".

The most commonly recommended alternative is BTCPay, which if you pair with a payment forwarding service, can be configured to auto-convert to fiat. There is a good medium post explaining one way of setting this up here: https://medium.com/@prayankgahlot/instant-fiat-conversion-with-btcpay-1d2f3dd57352. In-built crypto to fiat conversion is also on BTCPay's roadmap for the future. BTCPay is self hosted and does not rely on any third parties.

There are other custodial/hosted payment processors which have in-built conversion, but without the privacy invading and anti-bitcoin stance of BitPay. CoinPayments and CoinGate are both quite common. They obviously require KYC from the merchant, but do not require KYC from the customers as BitPay does.

Here is a list of some other alternatives: https://github.com/alexk111/awesome-bitcoin-payment-processors

We shouldn't need it for any bitcoin transaction. The whole point of bitcoin is to be peer to peer, and not require approval from some third party who needs all your documents and to perform a full background check on you before deciding whether or not you are allowed to spend your own money. That's what fiat is for.

I would argue the opposite. If every time you want to spend bitcoin you are forced to perform KYC and send a photocopy of your passport to a payment processor, then bitcoin is going nowhere. There are already 20+ different payment processors, not to mention all the merchants who accept bitcoin directly, meaning you are more-or-less going to have to complete KYC for every new merchant you want to spend bitcoin at. Not only is that a massive inconvenience, but it's also a massive risk to your own security.

I'm not too surprised, people are vocal because they got burned or had other negative experiences with them. I looked into donating to Wikipedia the other day, not only is the donation page buried pretty deeply, deeply enough for many people to miss it, but BitPay also requires an email address, a full name, and a full address.

agree that we shouldn't need this for every BTC transaction

However, AML/KYC seems a small price to pay for getting bitcoin adoption growing.

See the first reply in this thread and the link within it I posted.

Who do folks recommend if not Bitpay???

BitBay uses outdated protocols to make BTC payments and forces users to install insecure/proprietary wallet software. It's not good for bitcoin.

I looked into donating to Wikipedia the other day, not only is the donation page buried pretty deeply, deeply enough for many people to miss it, but BitPay also requires an email address, a full name, and a full address.

The fee, however, is almost 16%! It's seems like it's a fixed fee ~$1.50 so not as bad when sending more but still

Unless it is a big amount to donate, maybe something >$5k, to suspect a money laundering?, I don't see honesty why should anyone give his full identity for 10 bucks! This is ridiculous.

I'm not too surprised, people are vocal because they got burned or had other negative experiences with them. I looked into donating to Wikipedia the other day, not only is the donation page buried pretty deeply, deeply enough for many people to miss it, but BitPay also requires an email address, a full name, and a full address.

https://i.imgur.com/a0F7UIu.png

I'm surprised that a lot of users are already recommending PINE64 BTCPay as an altnernative for Bitpay. This says a lot on how the users are expressing their anger against Bitpay since they are recommending a complete opposite of it with BTCpay they have no KYCs, no fees, and the bad thing is the business will receive the payment as BTC which PINE64 may not like that's why they are trying to introduce Bitpay in their product. It might be a relief for consumers that PINE64 let their voices be heard but I doubt BTCpay will be their second option.

I strongly advise AGAINST using
@bitpay
 and instead advise that you present your engineers with the option to use
@BtcpayServer
 for free and have complete control over your online commerce

Here's the original thread: https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1261275844913348610

Pleasantly surprised at twitter here. Lots of people saying they would flat out refuse to use BitPay, and lots of people recommending to use BTCPay instead.

BitPay are anti-bitcoin, anti-privacy, pro-KYC (for both sellers and buyers), pro-tracking, pro-BCash, charge excessive fees, and defeat the very point of bitcoin as they are a third party which you have to trust. You can read more details here: https://debitpay.directory/anti-bitcoin/. Most companies use them because they auto-convert to fiat, and many consumers will use them because there aren't any alternative merchants which don't use it. You can set up auto-conversion with BTCPay, however, so there is no good reason to use BitPay at all.

Good that BitPay have lost another company. Hopefully the community can continue to put pressure on companies which use BitPay, and ideally not give them our custom at all. The fewer people that use BitPay, the better for the individuals and the better for bitcoin as a whole.

Here's the original thread: https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1261275844913348610

Pleasantly surprised at twitter here. Lots of people saying they would flat out refuse to use BitPay, and lots of people recommending to use BTCPay instead.

[snip]

Good that BitPay have lost another company. Hopefully the community can continue to put pressure on companies which use BitPay, and ideally not give them our custom at all. The fewer people that use BitPay, the better for the individuals and the better for bitcoin as a whole.

tracing can have enough privacy, but still you need to prove its all correct, or you are the thief, cause you cannot disprove that

Ahh yes, you and your "only criminals need privacy" nonsense. I'll ask you yet again to post your real name, address, email and social media logins. If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to fear, right?

Seeking to break this can only come from evil ppl

So because I value my privacy, by your logic I must inherently be up to something shady or immoral? So why do you post under a pseudonym? I'll ask again for your real name, address, and all your email and social media logins. After all, you've just said that privacy is "not needed for normal people". Why won't you share that information? What have you got to hide?

I suppose it makes sense that someone who shills for a privacy invading, centralized scam like BSV doesn't understand why the average person might value their privacy. Perhaps if the world wasn't filled with identity thieves like Craig Wright, some people might be less concerned with keeping their KYC data to themselves.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer.

I'm well aware of the regulations surrounding fiat payments, and the fact that you can and are tracked via your credit card purchases. It's part of the reason I am so interested in bitcoin - the freedom to spend my money on what I want to spend it on without some faceless company tracking all my purchases and sharing that information with the government. The government has no need to know how often I go grocery shopping or how much money I spent on x, y, or z.

So talking specifically about bitcoin, again BitPay is the only entity who have ever asked for my KYC as a customer making a purchase. I've bought groceries, clothes, entertainment, games, music, computer hardware, electronics, appliances, building materials, booked hotels, dined out, paid some subscriptions and memberships, etc., all with bitcoin. I've made purchases of more than $3000 (the limit BitPay set for KYC) in one go, and I've spent more than $3000 spread across several transactions with the same merchant. In not a single one of these places was KYC even mentioned, let alone demanded like BitPay does. If BitPay want to demand KYC, then as a private entity that is their right to do so, just as it is our right to refuse to use them, but I don't think the government are forcing them to do so at this point. If they were, why is not every merchant and service which accepts bitcoin doing so? Why are other payment processors not doing so?

If this is where we are heading, then we need to do better. If we are heading in the direction of every bitcoin merchant demanding full KYC from every customer before accepting a transaction, then bitcoin becomes little better than fiat. This needs to be resisted.

BitPay invades your privacy, takes control of your coins, decides whether or not you are allowed to spend your own money, and charges a fee for the privilege. It is the very definition of having to trust a third party which bitcoin was created to avoid.

So at a *guess* it's location & lawyers. They are a US corporation so their legal department is probably a bit more paranoid then others. They are also trying to be a big player so dot every i cross every t and make sure nobody can come after them for anything.