@Lucius, @Harlot. What are the exchanges approved by the government? In America, I speculate that one might be Coinbase. Therefore the best method to buy clean and no KYC bitcoins might be to buy them from someone who has bought them from Coinbase.
Is there a Coinbase user in the forum hehehe?
Topic: [2020-08-15] US Prosecutors Seize Bitcoin Allegedly Tied to AlQaeda, ISIS, Hamas - page 3. (Read 588 times)
August 19, 2020, 11:40:29 PM
August 19, 2020, 07:20:29 AM
Have the terrorist bitcoins seized by the American government become clean upon sequestration? I speculate that the future of public blockchain data is open for the government to label what is bad and not bad.
This might become a important issue, I reckon hehe.
This might become a important issue, I reckon hehe.
Of course, the coins will become clean after being washed by a state agency - it sounds a bit paradoxical that state institutions legally wash the so-called dirty BTC and then return it to the system through auctions - although the history of these coins cannot be erased (unless they run through a coin mixer).
There is no doubt that this will be exactly the case, there will be a lot of seizure of cryptocurrencies which will then be returned to the system in this way. Is that good or bad? Well, I think it's still positive, because such coins still return to the system and are no longer marked as bad.
Silk Road total amount of seized BTC was over 170 000, after being washed they are back in the system and are probably part of many wallets - who knows, maybe some of us have them too
August 19, 2020, 07:00:54 AM
Have the terrorist bitcoins seized by the American government become clean upon sequestration? I speculate that the future of public blockchain data is open for the government to label what is bad and not bad.
This might become a important issue, I reckon hehe.
This might become a important issue, I reckon hehe.
The US government have previously auctioned off Bitcoins related to illicit activities so I doubt this situation would be different not unless these Bitcoin they have are also stolen from people who they know this will something they do. After they have these Bitcoin and is ready for auction I assume that this will be "clean" as it has passed and investigated under them safely.
August 18, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
Have the terrorist bitcoins seized by the American government become clean upon sequestration? I speculate that the future of public blockchain data is open for the government to label what is bad and not bad.
This might become a important issue, I reckon hehe.
This might become a important issue, I reckon hehe.
August 18, 2020, 09:21:03 AM
Basically what they are saying is that anyone who is in possession of the private keys to the 155 addresses listed must forfeit them to the US government. If the people in possession of the private keys are the terrorists themselves, then obviously they aren't going to hand over anything. If, on the other hand, the people in possession of the private keys are exchanges or other third party services, then they will hand over the relevant assets.
So basically they haven't seized the Bitcoin then, as the title wrongly states. Even if they are 3rd party services and exchanges as Chanalysis claims, it's not certain they'll even have the jurisdiction over them.~
I think they have actually seized more than $1 million worth of cryptocurrency from various exchanges that were under their jurisdiction. One of the exchanges is called BitcoinTransfer, and its office is situated in Idlib, Syria. Read more from the link below:
https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/cryptocurrency-terrorism-financing-al-qaeda-al-qassam-brigades-bitcointransfer
So, it's not like they just discovered 155 crypto addresses held by terrorists. They found out to what exchanges and platforms the money went, and seized those accounts.
So yeah, it's still a wrong title still. I'm still highly doubtful they already seized the bitcoin, which is why they're asking those in possession of private keys to forfeit them to the US govt. The report you shared and all I've read only say they've disrupted these operations. Not recovered any funds. It's going to be a challenge. Fro example, BitcoinTransfer may or may not be able or willing to do this, and since Syria is actually sanctioned by the US, I don't see why, other than to buy political goodwill, why the Syrian government would be okay with that happening either.
Either way, blockchain makes a case for efforts against terrorism financing. However you feel about that, its role in making analysis possible can't be denied.
Well, you see, a wrong title by CoinDesk wouldn't surprise me at all, but it turns out that there are too many "wrong titles" regarding this case.
NBC News, for instance, titled their story "Feds announce largest seizure of cryptocurrency connected to terrorism", and here's a fragment from the article:
Authorities have now seized millions of dollars across 300 cryptocurrency accounts, four websites and four Facebook pages connected to these groups.
So, I think they did seize the money.
August 17, 2020, 09:50:50 AM
Basically what they are saying is that anyone who is in possession of the private keys to the 155 addresses listed must forfeit them to the US government. If the people in possession of the private keys are the terrorists themselves, then obviously they aren't going to hand over anything. If, on the other hand, the people in possession of the private keys are exchanges or other third party services, then they will hand over the relevant assets.
So basically they haven't seized the Bitcoin then, as the title wrongly states. Even if they are 3rd party services and exchanges as Chanalysis claims, it's not certain they'll even have the jurisdiction over them.~
I think they have actually seized more than $1 million worth of cryptocurrency from various exchanges that were under their jurisdiction. One of the exchanges is called BitcoinTransfer, and its office is situated in Idlib, Syria. Read more from the link below:
https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/cryptocurrency-terrorism-financing-al-qaeda-al-qassam-brigades-bitcointransfer
So, it's not like they just discovered 155 crypto addresses held by terrorists. They found out to what exchanges and platforms the money went, and seized those accounts.
So yeah, it's still a wrong title still. I'm still highly doubtful they already seized the bitcoin, which is why they're asking those in possession of private keys to forfeit them to the US govt. The report you shared and all I've read only say they've disrupted these operations. Not recovered any funds. It's going to be a challenge. Fro example, BitcoinTransfer may or may not be able or willing to do this, and since Syria is actually sanctioned by the US, I don't see why, other than to buy political goodwill, why the Syrian government would be okay with that happening either.
Either way, blockchain makes a case for efforts against terrorism financing. However you feel about that, its role in making analysis possible can't be denied.
August 17, 2020, 06:15:01 AM
Basically what they are saying is that anyone who is in possession of the private keys to the 155 addresses listed must forfeit them to the US government. If the people in possession of the private keys are the terrorists themselves, then obviously they aren't going to hand over anything. If, on the other hand, the people in possession of the private keys are exchanges or other third party services, then they will hand over the relevant assets.
So basically they haven't seized the Bitcoin then, as the title wrongly states. Even if they are 3rd party services and exchanges as Chanalysis claims, it's not certain they'll even have the jurisdiction over them.~
I think they have actually seized more than $1 million worth of cryptocurrency from various exchanges that were under their jurisdiction. One of the exchanges is called BitcoinTransfer, and its office is situated in Idlib, Syria. Read more from the link below:
https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/cryptocurrency-terrorism-financing-al-qaeda-al-qassam-brigades-bitcointransfer
So, it's not like they just discovered 155 crypto addresses held by terrorists. They found out to what exchanges and platforms the money went, and seized the terrorists' accounts there.
August 16, 2020, 10:26:27 PM
They cannot enforce it on the blockchain, however, my question is how good are the blockchain analytics companies today in producing an analysis on coins after mixing or coinjoins?
Having read the court documents I linked above, there is no mention anywhere about the terrorists attempting to mix, coinjoin, or otherwise obfuscate their coins in this case. A number of addresses were identified as they were openly soliciting donations to these addresses, these addresses tended to consolidate the donations to one central address, and then that central address sent directly to exchanges and gift card sellers.I reckon not yet from those addresses. However, it would also be very naive to assume that no terrorist has mixed or coinjoined their coins before.
The concern is on the innocent users who only want privacy through mixing. The blockchain analytics companies might wrongfully mark or just assume that their addresses as part of the terrorists's address.
August 16, 2020, 06:58:05 PM
I think these Telegram channels aren't actually associated with the orgs, and just scammers.
Have read a lot of news about the organization recruiting and receiving fund from people through social media so there must be a specific online account that truly belongs to the organization as there's some which were run by scammers.Then again, maybe people aren't as smart as they're supposed to be.
Yes and that's what happened to twitter hackers when they make silly mistakes that expose them to the authority.In the meantime, I love the information provided by Chainanalysis guy year ago but we dont know if they have improve their services now.
August 16, 2020, 05:45:35 PM
With this quote the article provided it looks like they received a tip that these criminal organizations are using telegram to contact and transact with each other that's why they got a hit from it. They might not be that 100% accurate but I think what stands out in court is that you have a very good evidence linking that person to the terrorist group and I think the judge seen enough for it to happen.
I mean, if you read the court documents I linked to above, the terrorists don't exactly hide the fact that they are accepting bitcoin. Telegram groups named "Jihad Media", posting adverts for "Fundraising campaign for bullets and rockets", and pictures of fighters holding banners with bitcoin addresses on them.It's actually a little funny that the DOJ are paying Chainalysis hundreds of thousands of dollars for them to perform "blockchain analysis" on this kind of thing. I've seen more complicated investigative work on the Scam Accusations board than is in this report. It's literally "Here are a bunch of addresses which were posted on Telegram asking for donations" and "All these addresses then consolidated funds to these other addresses, which then sent coins to exchanges and gift card sellers". Anyone mildly familiar with bitcoin and Telegram and with access to a block explorer could have done this.
August 16, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/us-prosecutors-attempt-to-seize-bitcoin-allegedly-tied-to-al-qaeda
“Al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups have been operating a BTC money laundering network using Telegram channels and other social media platforms to solicit BTC donations to further their terrorist goals,” the complaint read. “As described below, al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups operate a number of Telegram channels and purport to act as charities when, in fact, they are soliciting funds for the mujahadeen.”
When we look at blockchain analytics companies like Chainalysis I think it is important to know that when they are investigating or doing their own research it doesn't mean they only analyze transaction using blockchain but they also start from somewhere like what addresses are affiliated to these terrorists groups and go from there. With this quote the article provided it looks like they received a tip that these criminal organizations are using telegram to contact and transact with each other that's why they got a hit from it. They might not be that 100% accurate but I think what stands out in court is that you have a very good evidence linking that person to the terrorist group and I think the judge seen enough for it to happen.
August 16, 2020, 11:41:20 AM
does this Chainalysis now work for the US government?
Chainalysis, like all blockchain analysis companies, sell their privacy invasion to the highest bidder. They have worked with various governments and government agencies for years now.Take a look at these records: https://www.fpds.gov/ezsearch/search.do?indexName=awardfull&templateName=1.5.1&s=FPDS.GOV&q=VENDOR_FULL_NAME%3A%22CHAINALYSIS+INC.%22
According to them, the FBI and IRS have been paying for services from Chainalysis since at least 2015, and the DEA and Immigration and Customs Enforcement since 2016. There are 97 contracts from various different government agencies for Chainalysis services, the largest being for $1.7 million.
And here they are working with Europol in 2016: https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsroom/news/europol-and-chainalysis-reinforce-their-cooperation-in-fight-against-cybercrime
August 16, 2020, 11:01:23 AM
what a great novelty, so they are eliminating these terrorists, this is very good and it can also be good for governments to see that bitcoin is not so different from FIAT and that they can manage to catch terrorists who use bitcoin and altcoins. I just wonder if this is really true because honestly governments when it comes to terrorists are able to lie a lot (adulterate the data) to make it look as if they are succeeding in combating terrorism
does this Chainalysis now work for the US government?
does this Chainalysis now work for the US government?
August 16, 2020, 08:47:58 AM
They cannot enforce it on the blockchain, however, my question is how good are the blockchain analytics companies today in producing an analysis on coins after mixing or coinjoins?
Having read the court documents I linked above, there is no mention anywhere about the terrorists attempting to mix, coinjoin, or otherwise obfuscate their coins in this case. A number of addresses were identified as they were openly soliciting donations to these addresses, these addresses tended to consolidate the donations to one central address, and then that central address sent directly to exchanges and gift card sellers.Even if they are 3rd party services and exchanges as Chanalysis claims, it's not certain they'll even have the jurisdiction over them.
True, but most centralized exchanges, even foreign ones, will give in immediately to pressure from the US government lest they get slapped with sanctions or regulations. August 16, 2020, 06:38:20 AM
They cannot enforce it on the blockchain, however, my question is how good are the blockchain analytics companies today in producing an analysis on coins after mixing or coinjoins?
If we take into account what Snowden published about Bitcoin, then we know that some three letters agencies worked very seriously on identifying and tracking Bitcoin users. If they already had very sophisticated tools in 2013, it is not at all a question of what they have today - something much better than what all these analysis companies have at the moment.
Also, analysis of some mixers has shown that they are far from perfect tools for hiding traces, and everything a man designs is subject to reverse engineering, so I think most still live under the misconception that they can be completely anonymous on the internet.
As for terrorists, I thought Al-Qaeda and ISIS were a thing of the past - they served their purpose and now we are waiting for some new super terrorist organization because the fight against terror must not stop - maybe terrorists are waiting for the price of BTC to rise - terrorists Hodlers
August 16, 2020, 03:55:17 AM
Basically what they are saying is that anyone who is in possession of the private keys to the 155 addresses listed must forfeit them to the US government. If the people in possession of the private keys are the terrorists themselves, then obviously they aren't going to hand over anything. If, on the other hand, the people in possession of the private keys are exchanges or other third party services, then they will hand over the relevant assets.
So basically they haven't seized the Bitcoin then, as the title wrongly states. Even if they are 3rd party services and exchanges as Chanalysis claims, it's not certain they'll even have the jurisdiction over them. Anyone remember how the US sanctioned BTC addresses last year? That worked out well, didn't it?
They cannot enforce it on the blockchain, however, my question is how good are the blockchain analytics companies today in producing an analysis on coins after mixing or coinjoins?
Probably not very, very good, it still needs individuals to really make good assessments. This Chainalysis whistleblower claims the software isn't anywhere as good as it claims to be.
August 15, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
So unless ISIS et all have been using Coinbase or exchanges regulated by the US, how exactly does the DOJ attempt to seize private keys from these organisations? Waterboard their Ledgers? Find it hard to believe most of the addresses were stored on exchanges. I saw the Hamas site asking for donations and they were NOT using exchange wallets. I think these Telegram channels aren't actually associated with the orgs, and just scammers. Then again, maybe people aren't as smart as they're supposed to be.
They cannot enforce it on the blockchain, however, my question is how good are the blockchain analytics companies today in producing an analysis on coins after mixing or coinjoins?
I reckon that this might become disadvantageous to innocent users. The government has a history of accusing innocent people only to report a result and close the case.
August 15, 2020, 08:31:26 PM
So unless ISIS et all have been using Coinbase or exchanges regulated by the US, how exactly does the DOJ attempt to seize private keys from these organisations?
You can read the relevant court document here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7035314-Complaint.html. Paragraph 70 states that:Quote
The Defendant Properties are subject to forfeiture to the United States, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 981(a)(1)(G)(i), as assets of a foreign terrorist organization engaged in planning or perpetrating any federal crime of terrorism (as defined in section 2332b(g)(5)) against the United States, citizens or residents of the United States, or their property, and as assets affording any person a source of influence over any such entity or organization.
Basically what they are saying is that anyone who is in possession of the private keys to the 155 addresses listed must forfeit them to the US government. If the people in possession of the private keys are the terrorists themselves, then obviously they aren't going to hand over anything. If, on the other hand, the people in possession of the private keys are exchanges or other third party services, then they will hand over the relevant assets.
August 15, 2020, 04:14:31 PM
How good are blockchain analytics companies in analyzing coinjoins and mixing presently? Can they follow outputs after a mix or a coinjoin? This might be a concern for regular users, I reckon.
I am quite certain blockchain analytics companies do not have 99% batting average hehe. There are services and institutions in this world that should not have a 1% or .01% error. Airline pilots, the police and the judicial system are examples.
Image from risetopeace.org
The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) announced the “largest ever seizure of terrorist organizations’ cryptocurrency accounts” on Thursday, including “millions of dollars” and 300 crypto accounts.
In a press release Thursday, the DOJ announced it had investigated and dismantled “three terrorist financing cyber-enabled campaigns” involving al-Qaeda, Hamas and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS).
Legal documents filed Thursday show the DOJ is trying to seize bitcoin from 155 addresses it alleges were used by Al Qaeda to fund terrorism and arrest two individuals allegedly involved with facilitating crypto transfers for Hamas.
Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/us-prosecutors-attempt-to-seize-bitcoin-allegedly-tied-to-al-qaeda
I am quite certain blockchain analytics companies do not have 99% batting average hehe. There are services and institutions in this world that should not have a 1% or .01% error. Airline pilots, the police and the judicial system are examples.
Image from risetopeace.org
The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) announced the “largest ever seizure of terrorist organizations’ cryptocurrency accounts” on Thursday, including “millions of dollars” and 300 crypto accounts.
In a press release Thursday, the DOJ announced it had investigated and dismantled “three terrorist financing cyber-enabled campaigns” involving al-Qaeda, Hamas and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS).
Legal documents filed Thursday show the DOJ is trying to seize bitcoin from 155 addresses it alleges were used by Al Qaeda to fund terrorism and arrest two individuals allegedly involved with facilitating crypto transfers for Hamas.
Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/us-prosecutors-attempt-to-seize-bitcoin-allegedly-tied-to-al-qaeda
ISIS aka CIA, heck we don't even know who created bitcoin, maybe it's the CIA..
August 15, 2020, 04:02:03 PM
So unless ISIS et all have been using Coinbase or exchanges regulated by the US, how exactly does the DOJ attempt to seize private keys from these organisations? Waterboard their Ledgers? Find it hard to believe most of the addresses were stored on exchanges. I saw the Hamas site asking for donations and they were NOT using exchange wallets. I think these Telegram channels aren't actually associated with the orgs, and just scammers. Then again, maybe people aren't as smart as they're supposed to be.
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