[2020-10.01] Research Reveals Crypto Owners to Be the Riskiest Esports Bettors

ABCbits

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Quote from: malevolent on October 10, 2020, 07:16:03 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

But most payment method available (e.g. bank transfer) also require you to be majority (usually 17-18 years old depending on the country).
Selling digital items is more realistic option, but i doubt it have high price (unless for artificially rare digital item).

Minors can usually have their own bank accounts starting at 12-13, other options involve cash deposits or intermediaries accepting cash in common places, and then there are places like paxful with multitudes of means of payment.

I forget such option, but AFAIK there are more limitation (compared with regular bank account) and must be approved by their family or guardian which makes it complicated.

malevolent

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Quote from: ABCbits on October 11, 2020, 04:24:51 AM

I forget such option, but AFAIK there are more limitation (compared with regular bank account) and must be approved by their family or guardian which makes it complicated.

Sure, but once it's done their guardian doesn't need to approve every transaction. I don't remember facing any restrictions when I was underage that would preclude someone from being able to acquire cryptocurrencies.

20kevin20

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

One of the enduring mysteries of this arena is the willingness of people to throw their Bitcoin away in a way I'm certain they'd think twice about with dollars.

Now that I'm reading this thread, I just noticed this is a phenomenon happening to me as well.. especially with gambling. It's probably the fact that a Bitcoin "cent", as in 0.01 BTC, misleads your mind into thinking it's not worth so much just because you're used to the USD denomination - and maybe also the fact that we all just want to gather as much BTC as possible.

Quote from: pixie85 on October 09, 2020, 10:24:49 AM

It's normal but esports gamblers are often young gamers who play with small amounts of money.

It's a very rapidly increasing industry, the esports figures are higher every year. I doubt kids are playing with low amounts though - parents seem to give them more money than I thought they would, and I don't think it's much different to how much the average . How many adults do you think afford spending $10k on a dice game? Kids have way more free time, and winning those in-game items seems to be a very fascinating goal for them.

According to ChooseHelp, "the average american loses just under $400 per year, or about $30 per month, through all forms of gambling" while "the average Canadian loses just under $600 per year, or about $50 per month, through all forms of gambling". I am quite sure kids who are betting on esports have more free money per month than that.

malevolent

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Quote from: ?? on ??

But most payment method available (e.g. bank transfer) also require you to be majority (usually 17-18 years old depending on the country).
Selling digital items is more realistic option, but i doubt it have high price (unless for artificially rare digital item).

Minors can usually have their own bank accounts starting at 12-13, other options involve cash deposits or intermediaries accepting cash in common places, and then there are places like paxful with multitudes of means of payment.

malevolent

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

Little surprise there.

One of the enduring mysteries of this arena is the willingness of people to throw their Bitcoin away in a way I'm certain they'd think twice about with dollars. How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.

Fuck 'em.

Easy come, easy go. When someone has seen the value of their coins appreciate by several orders of magnitude, they may be less prudent about how they spend it. On bustabit bets of 100 BTC or more can occasionally be observed.

Quote from: ?? on ??

But how would they obtain cryptocurrency in first place? Using exchange is obviously impossible, while ATM is only available on very few places.
There are another option such as faucet, bounty hunter or airdrop, but it barely give you any money these days.

https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/

It's sometimes possible, especially when small amounts of money are involved, to forego KYC even when ATMs aren't available. There're also quite a few places where people can sell their digital loot (e.g. CS:GO 'skins') for BTC.

pixie85

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It's normal but esports gamblers are often young gamers who play with small amounts of money.

They buy cs keys for cheap and hope to get a rare item they can sell for more than the value of those keys. Most of those transactions are extremely low in value.

When they are to open $100 worth of crates they film it and put it on social media. Adult gamblers can spend 10 thousand USD playing dice and never tell anyone about it.

To conclude, there's a lot of people who gamble and own cryptocurrencies but the value of esports gambling is still very low.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.

it's easy, simply think about someone other than yourself Roll Eyes

1. Convert all your fiat to BTC as and when you receive any
2. Spend BTC

Or are you not so confident in BTC, economically or philosophically? Perhaps you don't like to spread knowledge of a concept that's making you (feel) better off than your peers?

Or are you more confident in fiat? 50:50 maybe?

sounds like gambling to me. Myself? all in, on BTC. Because it's the right thing to do, not because it indulges my self-image or flatters my wounded ego

cr1776

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

Little surprise there.

One of the enduring mysteries of this arena is the willingness of people to throw their Bitcoin away in a way I'm certain they'd think twice about with dollars. How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.

Fuck 'em.

Agreed. One might think that perhaps many of these people are truly crypto owners, but gamblers who are buying crypto in order to fund their gambling habit. People who are using crypto to bypass whatever state controls there might be on gambling online, so only being owners for a very short period of time. (Some perhaps using their crypto holdings to fund a habit).

Many of the crypto owners I have met since 2010 are (at least the ones I met long ago) have a good understanding of math and realize that lotteries, casinos etc are merely a tax on the innumerate.

Likewise, without some type of true inside information (e.g. game X will be thrown) it is, as you say, throwing their bitcoin away to be on a sports game. Yes, you may win, but the house always has an edge through the spread, superior knowledge or something else. (Barring counting cards at casinos and the like where you could have an advantage over the house).

Gambling isn't a "risk" as it might be to use and risk one's time to start a business (crypto or otherwise) where you have a reasonable chance of reward, gambling is a sure loser when you consider everyone in aggregate. Thus it isn't a "risk" but a sure way to lose if you persist for long periods of time.

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Quote from: stompix on October 07, 2020, 03:16:26 PM

As for the reasoning behind it, I can only think that's probably because we already have invested in BTC the money we're affording to lose, so in some way this is play money and it gets...well..played. Not the best theory on why this is happening but I can't think of a better one

Pretty simple reason for me. It's now the majority of the value I own. If I want something pricey then BTC has to pay for it. But that's kind of irrelevant as I have no shortage of it.

It's the people who let all of it fly out of their hands that blow my mind and that seems to be extremely common. I remember someone in a well paying sig campaign in 2014/15 saying they spent ALL of it on Steam games and they claimed not to retain any. It got spent as soon as it was earned.

Those games had better liven up your lonely nights for a long arse time to come. I couldn't look at them without feeling anything other than burning resentment.

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Quote from: Betwrong on October 06, 2020, 04:21:14 AM

I think all of us, crypto gamblers, should consider the words said by @gentlemand here:

Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

~How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.
~

Indeed, it seems more easy to part with crypto than with fiat, but it is so wrong.

Now that I think again about this, I can say that's true not just for gambling but also for normal spending.
When I transfer some mbits to my wirex card I tend to spend it way faster on stupid things, just because I loaded it with coins, even if the sum is shown in euros, and the same for buying stuff directly with crypto, if the product I want is available on a shop here that accepts bitcoin I always end up buying a more expensive version that it, just because I have enough bitcoins in my day to day wallet, a thing I would have not done with my CC.
I don't know why I do this, I know it's stupid and the only excuse I'm coming up with is that I wan to help adoption...like my 100$ would make a change...

As for the reasoning behind it, I can only think that's probably because we already have invested in BTC the money we're affording to lose, so in some way this is play money and it gets...well..played. Not the best theory on why this is happening but I can't think of a better one

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 03, 2020, 11:39:31 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

Little surprise there.

One of the enduring mysteries of this arena is the willingness of people to throw their Bitcoin away in a way I'm certain they'd think twice about with dollars. How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.

Fuck 'em.

Similar to ICO gamblers hehe.

In any case, I am skeptical of loot.bet's statistics. Their study should have a comparison with the largest fiat sportsbooks in the world. The article only appears to be a paid for advertisment.

There's no point if they would just make out claims that they are making much more in crypto compared into their typical fiat player deposits.It might be on the advertisement side but actually

i do see this as a sort of telling up things on how it did go well when they had just jumped into this crypto space.I have seen that they just recently adding up Bitcoin/crypto deposits in the site

yet to know that Loot.bet is already a known site on e-sports field where you can really expect that it does really have those big numbers.What surprises me here is that they do able to get
huge deposits from crypto players which means there are lots of e-sports lovers on this market that do own crypto?

For people do mention about using up the coins or wasting up to gambling then its their own choice since its their money after all which means it isnt really our business on how they would spend it.

Betwrong

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Quote from: stompix on October 02, 2020, 09:06:10 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

But how would they obtain cryptocurrency in first place? Using exchange is obviously impossible, while ATM is only available on very few places.

Localbitcoins, Paxful, online deals, exchange for gift cards, if you're not living in a small village in a 3rd world country it's pretty easy to get, and remember those are gamers, kids who usually have more than 10$ monthly allowance. It has become pretty easy to get cryptos nowadays.
~

Exactly. In Western countries, $30-$40 per week for a teenager is not something unheard of. Then they buy BTC with cash from their older friends, and voila! - they can place bets.

Quote from: stompix on October 02, 2020, 09:06:10 AM

~I'm also pretty sure there are a lot of people who are only betting with cryptocurrencies and not only they don't touch at all traditional fiat systems but also never had bet previously.

You almost literally described my situation!

It's not that I never had bet previously, but I started doing it hundred times more frequently with crypto. And I just realized that although my crypto bets are usually very small, all of them combined might amount to a number that would be many times higher than what I've wagered in fiat during my whole life.

I think all of us, crypto gamblers, should consider the words said by @gentlemand here:

Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

~How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.
~

Indeed, it seems more easy to part with crypto than with fiat, but it is so wrong.

Darker45

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I remember there was once a topic in the gambling discussion board which talked about how it is easier to spend crypto in gambling than fiat. I also remembered I agreed because, based on experience, it was really easier to place a bet worth $20 or $50 or even $100 when it is done in 0.005BTC or 0.003BTC or even 0.01BTC. Although eventually I personally shifted to ETH in gambling when BTC has grown more precious to me. But there was that same feeling that money in the form of ETH is much easier to gamble than in fiat.

I'm not sure but it is possible that BTC and ETH's worth has not yet sunk in them. Probably crypto is not yet as money as fiat may seem to them.

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I don't think that this is accurate though, they need to identify first if majority of them are just normal players hodling cryptocurrencies as there is a good chances that these are whales that are also high-rollers or has become one since they are just early adopters and they have stacks of Bitcoin to gamble with. Because most of the people I have seen here are merely hodling cryptocurrencies in their portfolio with no plans on spending nor gambling it.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

Little surprise there.

One of the enduring mysteries of this arena is the willingness of people to throw their Bitcoin away in a way I'm certain they'd think twice about with dollars. How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.

Fuck 'em.

Similar to ICO gamblers hehe.

In any case, I am skeptical of loot.bet's statistics. Their study should have a comparison with the largest fiat sportsbooks in the world. The article only appears to be a paid for advertisment.

buwaytress

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The line between gambling and burning money getting blurry since many DeFi/ICO are obviously scam or will fail.

At least with actual gambling, you can get very clear numbers on your chances with a transparent and obvious house edge, and provably fair mechanism to know exactly how much you can lose and win. With a lot of these Defi crap, most people aren't aware of how likely they are to lose everything for the sake of a miserable 40% apy or whatever.

Suppose it makes sense they'd go for esports in that case.

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 01, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

One of the enduring mysteries of this arena is the willingness of people to throw their Bitcoin away in a way I'm certain they'd think twice about with dollars. How you can favour retaining the currency that's only going to reduce your spending power and piss away the one that may ensure your future is beyond me.

Yeah. If you dig into all the excitement surrounding Defi and crypto derivatives, you also realise the majority of people dabbling in them are really just gambling. Put your Bitcoin into some platform and get back Wrapped BTC! Put up your Bitcoin as collateral and trade safely in derivatives! They're betting, is all they are. So no surprise they take more risks in straight-up gambling.

stompix

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Quote from: ?? on ??

But how would they obtain cryptocurrency in first place? Using exchange is obviously impossible, while ATM is only available on very few places.

Localbitcoins, Paxful, online deals, exchange for gift cards, if you're not living in a small village in a 3rd world country it's pretty easy to get, and remember those are gamers, kids who usually have more than 10$ monthly allowance. It has become pretty easy to get cryptos nowadays.
But yeah, no surprise here, I was sure that was the case even without a research, I'm also pretty sure there are a lot of people who are only betting with cryptocurrencies and not only they don't touch at all traditional fiat systems but also never had bet previously.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Betwrong on October 02, 2020, 05:33:44 AM

I think it is very likely that most of those bettors are below 18 years of age, and therefore they can't have a credit card, and can't bet with fiat currency. It is much easier to circumvent age restrictions on gambling sites than in banks(where it would be close to impossible). Hence the stats. Not because "cryptocurrency owners are more inclined to take risks", as they claim.

I absolutely believe the average crypto fan is more willing to risk. They wouldn't own any if they weren't. It's handy to balance risk appetite with some understanding and impulse control but I know that's a tricky balance.

Betwrong

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I think it is very likely that most of those bettors are below 18 years of age, and therefore they can't have a credit card, and can't bet with fiat currency. It is much easier to circumvent age restrictions on gambling sites than in banks(where it would be close to impossible). Hence the stats. Not because "cryptocurrency owners are more inclined to take risks", as they claim.

Topic: [2020-10.01] Research Reveals Crypto Owners to Be the Riskiest Esports Bettors (Read 308 times)