[2021-04-21] Governments can stop Bitcoin by shutting down mining, says Electric

chrisculanag

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Quote from: Argoo on May 28, 2021, 08:31:59 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on April 22, 2021, 06:13:06 AM

They are wrong. There are more than 250 countries and autonomous territories in the world and there is zero chance that all of them would crackdown on Bitcoin mining simultaneously. OK.. let's take the unlikely scenario of that happening. But that doesn't mean that all of the miners would just shut down their shop and quit. There will be some who would continue mining cryptocurrency, albeit anonymously. I don't think that the governments have the resources to track down and prosecute small scale miners.

Of course, there will always be states and various free zones that will allow cryptocurrency mining. However, even if the mining of bitcoin is completely banned everywhere and suppose that there is not even any other opportunity for its mining, it still cannot destroy bitcoin. More than 18 million bitcoins out of 21 million have already been mined. As a last resort, we can already do without mining the remaining three million bitcoins. However, people will always find a way to mine it. So I don't think this is a problem.

Very well said , there are many options to mine bitcoin and you right people are very smart to find another way. 18 million bitcoins is enough for bitcoins to spread all over the world. I think the one other reason why governments stop Bitcoin mining because they cant get any taxes about this. But if they want to accept minings im sure that government need put some taxes to gain also.

Argoo

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on April 22, 2021, 06:13:06 AM

They are wrong. There are more than 250 countries and autonomous territories in the world and there is zero chance that all of them would crackdown on Bitcoin mining simultaneously. OK.. let's take the unlikely scenario of that happening. But that doesn't mean that all of the miners would just shut down their shop and quit. There will be some who would continue mining cryptocurrency, albeit anonymously. I don't think that the governments have the resources to track down and prosecute small scale miners.

Of course, there will always be states and various free zones that will allow cryptocurrency mining. However, even if the mining of bitcoin is completely banned everywhere and suppose that there is not even any other opportunity for its mining, it still cannot destroy bitcoin. More than 18 million bitcoins out of 21 million have already been mined. As a last resort, we can already do without mining the remaining three million bitcoins. However, people will always find a way to mine it. So I don't think this is a problem.

Betwrong

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 14, 2021, 10:42:43 PM

Quote from: hv_ on May 14, 2021, 02:42:41 AM

Things can go quick

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/bitcoin-ban

It has begun. News media will publish and spread fud anything about mining and proof of work, an important component of cryptocoins. Whatever the people clicks more, that will be their storyline. It depends on you because it is sustained by you. Do not click it or help spread it.

Click it or not, Bitcoin mining can't be stopped by a government ban because, in spite of what conspiracy-theorists believe, our world doesn't have a centralized government. It can be banned in some countries, but others will keep doing it. For example, some major american films were banned in some countries, while other countries were screening the movies, generating millions of dollars in revenues. Same thing would happen to Bitcoin mining if it were banned somewhere.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 17, 2021, 07:50:04 PM

@hv_. Do you trust his tweets? Tesla is applying for entry on the renewable fuel credit market where they can receive more government subsidies. Tesla has been needing them to keep the company’s cashflow positive.

For how long they are going to sustain solely on government subsidies? Tesla was founded in 2003, and even after two decades they haven't been successful in attaining profit. And that is despite generous support from the federal government and the state governments. For me, it means only one thing - Tesla's business model is not sustainable. Perhaps they should exit the EV sector and leave it to more competent automobile makers. The only positive about Tesla is its hyperinflated market cap and unbelievably high P/E ratio.

bbc.reporter

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@hv_. Do you trust his tweets? Tesla is applying for entry on the renewable fuel credit market where they can receive more government subsidies. Tesla has been needing them to keep the company’s cashflow positive.

hv_

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 14, 2021, 10:42:43 PM

Quote from: hv_ on May 14, 2021, 02:42:41 AM

Things can go quick

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/bitcoin-ban

It has begun. News media will publish and spread fud anything about mining and proof of work, an important component of cryptocoins. Whatever the people clicks more, that will be their storyline. It depends on you because it is sustained by you. Do not click it or help spread it.

Proof of Social Media is strong - we ve seen that in the scaling debate... now it's up to bigger calibers like Elon. Seems he is a real big blocker

Lorence.xD

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They can stop it but people are going to find a way to mine the coins even if there is a ban, there are mines in China that are illegal that has been working for years so shutting down mining isn't going to really affect heavily.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: hv_ on May 14, 2021, 02:42:41 AM

Things can go quick

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/bitcoin-ban

It has begun. News media will publish and spread fud anything about mining and proof of work, an important component of cryptocoins. Whatever the people clicks more, that will be their storyline. It depends on you because it is sustained by you. Do not click it or help spread it.

hv_

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Things can go quick

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/bitcoin-ban

bbc.reporter

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Is appears that this government to shutdown bitcoin mining will the the storyline for the fud of 2021 with the government’s new mascot Elon Musk hehehe.

I reckon Elon was certainly not careless when he decided for Tesla to stop accepting bitcoin. Everything was planned. Tesla has always needed government perks to keep the company running.

EXCLUSIVE Tesla seeks entry into U.S. renewable fuel credit market

Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) is seeking to enter the multi-billion dollar U.S. renewable credit market, hoping to profit from the Biden administration’s march toward new zero-emission goals, two sources familiar with the matter said.

The electric car maker is one of at least eight companies with a pending application at the Environmental Protection Agency tied to power generation and renewable credits, the sources said. The EPA produces a list of pending applications with some details, but not companies' names.

Source https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/exclusive-tesla-seeks-entry-into-us-renewable-fuel-credit-market-sources-2021-05-12/

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 12, 2021, 01:20:31 PM

Quote from: posi on May 11, 2021, 06:59:23 AM

I dont mistake FUD with reality and yes Bitcoin mining will shut down if the government shutdown the electric grid but no government will dare to do that because of Bitcoin.

No government would shut down their electric grid to stop bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency--that's ludicrous. What the US government certainly could do is outlaw mining or even the possession of bitcoin if they were so inclined. But since they've done neither one of those things since bitcoin was rolled out in 2009, I don't think they plan on doing so. If bitcoin were a threat to fiat, I think it would have shown itself to be such well before now--and there hasn't even been much opposition to crypto by the US government so far as I know.

And lets say a government could and did shut down mining in its country; mining is so profitable that I bet you that the affected miners would just move their operations to a neighboring country where mining was still legal. So if the US government outlawed mining, my guess would be that there would be an exodus of miners to either Canada or Mexico, whichever has lower electricity costs/taxes.

That's the point and only an unreasonable or selfish person will believe crypto is a threat to fiat cause it has helped the country's economy in some aspect through the government tax on Bitcoin. I read an article that I don't remember the think again, that illustrates that the government and the law practitioner somehow support Bitcoin if not they can raise a legal law that could prevent people use using it or mining it which I think can happen rather than the shutdown of the electric grid which I believe is unaccommodating.

Betwrong

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 11, 2021, 08:50:17 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on May 10, 2021, 06:32:26 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 06, 2021, 02:16:00 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on May 03, 2021, 06:09:29 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 02, 2021, 11:21:38 PM

~
However, what is bitcoin doing to help the economy and how would taxing bitcoin miners affect it? It is arguable that the bitcoin and cryptospace markets are helping the real economy because these coins and tokens are used predominantly as speculative investments.

I think even if they, BTC and other cryptos, are purely speculative investments(I personally don't think so, but let's imagine this is the case), they are still helping the real economy because when people have more things to spend their money on, it's good for the economy in general. CMIIW.

That is hardly a good argument because those more things being spent on are not producing any goods for society. It is also not used as a medium for payments. It is only commonly used as something similar to casino chips for gambling on other something similar to casino chips.

What I mean is it's always good for the economy when people have more things to spend their money on, regardless of the utility of those things. $600 tickets on the Rolling Stones and the likes are not producing any goods for society either, same goes for collectibles(just one example: more than 5 billion Hot Wheels models have been sold, making it a multibillion-dollar market). Although it's hard to imagine how to utilize those tickets, car models and whatnot, the fact that people are willing to spend money on them makes people to want to earn more money, meaning to work more, contributing to the development of the economy.

I'll say it again, rephrasing a bit my previous comment: imo, even if BTC and other cryptos are just collectibles, it's good for the economy that they exist.

If it is producing the currency that powers our gambling habits, I would surrender to your argument and agree hehehe. In any case, yes if bitcoin mining produces jobs and creates new types of industries then you are correct.

Thank you. Yes, that's what I mean. And new jobs are produced not only by Bitcoin mining and gambling, but also by exchanging process. There are hundreds and hundreds of crypto exchanges around the world, and there are around 14,000 Bitcoin ATMs all over the world, according to statista, so it means cryptocurrency ATM designers and operators are needed. Don't forget about cryptocurrency journalists and technical analysts, this army is growing too. In short, many jobs are being produced by Bitcoin, and a government, if it were any good, wouldn't deprive their citizens of those benefits.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: posi on May 11, 2021, 06:59:23 AM

I dont mistake FUD with reality and yes Bitcoin mining will shut down if the government shutdown the electric grid but no government will dare to do that because of Bitcoin.

No government would shut down their electric grid to stop bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency--that's ludicrous. What the US government certainly could do is outlaw mining or even the possession of bitcoin if they were so inclined. But since they've done neither one of those things since bitcoin was rolled out in 2009, I don't think they plan on doing so. If bitcoin were a threat to fiat, I think it would have shown itself to be such well before now--and there hasn't even been much opposition to crypto by the US government so far as I know.

And lets say a government could and did shut down mining in its country; mining is so profitable that I bet you that the affected miners would just move their operations to a neighboring country where mining was still legal. So if the US government outlawed mining, my guess would be that there would be an exodus of miners to either Canada or Mexico, whichever has lower electricity costs/taxes.

Streets 2.0

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Soon, in principle, this will be impossible. Since in some countries, large companies have invested large capitals both in mining and in the bitcoin itself. The shutdown and restrictions will cause the expected price drop and panic sell-off. Who will benefit from this? I think only speculators who will buy cheap bitcoin and other coins. They will wait until everything is normalized, since this will happen anyway, and they will receive their profit. In general, I think that the modern world will never get rid of the blockchain, with all the wishes of individual governments.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Betwrong on May 10, 2021, 06:32:26 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 06, 2021, 02:16:00 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on May 03, 2021, 06:09:29 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 02, 2021, 11:21:38 PM

~
However, what is bitcoin doing to help the economy and how would taxing bitcoin miners affect it? It is arguable that the bitcoin and cryptospace markets are helping the real economy because these coins and tokens are used predominantly as speculative investments.

I think even if they, BTC and other cryptos, are purely speculative investments(I personally don't think so, but let's imagine this is the case), they are still helping the real economy because when people have more things to spend their money on, it's good for the economy in general. CMIIW.

That is hardly a good argument because those more things being spent on are not producing any goods for society. It is also not used as a medium for payments. It is only commonly used as something similar to casino chips for gambling on other something similar to casino chips.

What I mean is it's always good for the economy when people have more things to spend their money on, regardless of the utility of those things. $600 tickets on the Rolling Stones and the likes are not producing any goods for society either, same goes for collectibles(just one example: more than 5 billion Hot Wheels models have been sold, making it a multibillion-dollar market). Although it's hard to imagine how to utilize those tickets, car models and whatnot, the fact that people are willing to spend money on them makes people to want to earn more money, meaning to work more, contributing to the development of the economy.

I'll say it again, rephrasing a bit my previous comment: imo, even if BTC and other cryptos are just collectibles, it's good for the economy that they exist.

If it is producing the currency that powers our gambling habits, I would surrender to your argument and agree hehehe. In any case, yes if bitcoin mining produces jobs and creates new types of industries then you are correct.

posi

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Quote from: Kittygalore on May 10, 2021, 06:56:13 AM

Quote from: posi on May 05, 2021, 02:29:37 PM

People need to ignore all the false claimed from the Electricity sector, institutions, etc about the government having the capacity to shut down Bitcoin mining or Bitcoin cause they are doing this to cause fud. If it happens that the government shut down mining a lot of different ideas about Bitcoin mining have been put together to save Bitcoin from the rainy day which lightning is one of them.

Why though? I mean if electricity grids really did shut down, it will pretty much shut down bitcoin and all the things that are depending on electricity, don't mistake FUD with reality because just because it says something negative about bitcoin.

I dont mistake FUD with reality and yes Bitcoin mining will shut down if the government shutdown the electric grid but no government will dare to do that because of Bitcoin. However, the question the OP was about government shutdown Bitcoin mining through power outage to Bitcoin mining factory.

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Quote from: Kittygalore on May 10, 2021, 06:56:13 AM

Quote from: posi on May 05, 2021, 02:29:37 PM

People need to ignore all the false claimed from the Electricity sector, institutions, etc about the government having the capacity to shut down Bitcoin mining or Bitcoin cause they are doing this to cause fud. If it happens that the government shut down mining a lot of different ideas about Bitcoin mining have been put together to save Bitcoin from the rainy day which lightning is one of them.

Why though? I mean if electricity grids really did shut down, it will pretty much shut down bitcoin and all the things that are depending on electricity, don't mistake FUD with reality because just because it says something negative about bitcoin.

If the electrical grids really did shut down, we'd have a lot more problems than bitcoin mining. Air conditioners, doctor's office, hospitals, roadways (no lights), no pumps for gas stations, no pumps for water the internet, etc. would all cease to function. (And bitcoin mining would just slow down or freeze or migrate somewhere else). Sure a government could shut down an electrical grid, but the populace would shut down the government. (Unless it was something like a "One Second After" scenario).

Shutting down the grid wouldn't be a viable way to stop mining.

Kittygalore

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Quote from: posi on May 05, 2021, 02:29:37 PM

People need to ignore all the false claimed from the Electricity sector, institutions, etc about the government having the capacity to shut down Bitcoin mining or Bitcoin cause they are doing this to cause fud. If it happens that the government shut down mining a lot of different ideas about Bitcoin mining have been put together to save Bitcoin from the rainy day which lightning is one of them.

Why though? I mean if electricity grids really did shut down, it will pretty much shut down bitcoin and all the things that are depending on electricity, don't mistake FUD with reality because just because it says something negative about bitcoin.

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 06, 2021, 02:16:00 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on May 03, 2021, 06:09:29 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 02, 2021, 11:21:38 PM

~
However, what is bitcoin doing to help the economy and how would taxing bitcoin miners affect it? It is arguable that the bitcoin and cryptospace markets are helping the real economy because these coins and tokens are used predominantly as speculative investments.

I think even if they, BTC and other cryptos, are purely speculative investments(I personally don't think so, but let's imagine this is the case), they are still helping the real economy because when people have more things to spend their money on, it's good for the economy in general. CMIIW.

That is hardly a good argument because those more things being spent on are not producing any goods for society. It is also not used as a medium for payments. It is only commonly used as something similar to casino chips for gambling on other something similar to casino chips.

What I mean is it's always good for the economy when people have more things to spend their money on, regardless of the utility of those things. $600 tickets on the Rolling Stones and the likes are not producing any goods for society either, same goes for collectibles(just one example: more than 5 billion Hot Wheels models have been sold, making it a multibillion-dollar market). Although it's hard to imagine how to utilize those tickets, car models and whatnot, the fact that people are willing to spend money on them makes people to want to earn more money, meaning to work more, contributing to the development of the economy.

I'll say it again, rephrasing a bit my previous comment: imo, even if BTC and other cryptos are just collectibles, it's good for the economy that they exist.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Betwrong on May 03, 2021, 06:09:29 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 02, 2021, 11:21:38 PM

~
However, what is bitcoin doing to help the economy and how would taxing bitcoin miners affect it? It is arguable that the bitcoin and cryptospace markets are helping the real economy because these coins and tokens are used predominantly as speculative investments.

I think even if they, BTC and other cryptos, are purely speculative investments(I personally don't think so, but let's imagine this is the case), they are still helping the real economy because when people have more things to spend their money on, it's good for the economy in general. CMIIW.

That is hardly a good argument because those more things being spent on are not producing any goods for society. It is also not used as a medium for payments. It is only commonly used as something similar to casino chips for gambling on other something similar to casino chips.

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