[2022-09-22] JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon slammed crypto and called BTC Ponzi Scheme

Kakmakr

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They say.... when you live in a glass house... you should not throw stones. Roll Eyes

Well, let's look at JPMorgan's history to see if they can afford to throw stones. "All in all, JP Morgan was fined $35,241,500,000 in a three-and-a-half year period" - https://www.dividend.com/dividend-education/a-brief-history-of-jp-morgans-massive-fines-jpm/

"In the largest fine (of any single company) in corporate history, JP Morgan settled for $13 billion in November of 2013. The charges stemmed from misleading investors on what regulators dubbed “toxic mortgages.”

Would you take financial advice from a CEO of a financial institution that has a history like that?

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Lucius on September 28, 2022, 06:03:43 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 27, 2022, 07:46:29 PM

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/19/over-10-billion-lost-to-defi-scams-and-thefts-in-2021.html

Overall losses caused by DeFi exploits have totaled $12 billion so far in 2021, according to a report from xxx.
Fraud and theft accounted for $10.5 billion of that sum — a sevenfold increase from last year.
DeFi, or decentralized finance, products aim to replicate traditional financial services using blockchain.

Also, share the source of the article, I would like to read it. The article really said according to a report from xxx?

Are you so blinded by your persistent repetition (and even posting links) of something that has nothing to do with Bitcoin that you don't see that the link to the content is above the part I quoted? I have intentionally removed the name of the company that did the analysis because I don't want to promote anyone.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 27, 2022, 07:46:29 PM

If someone wants to buy an NFT because he thinks it is beautiful for him and also speculates that there will be more value to sell it in the future and in a market that says what the fair market value is presently, do you not think that this is very much similar to bitcoin or any market?

You live in the belief that NTF and Bitcoin are something similar, but I will never accept that someone equates these two technologies and puts them in the same category. Bitcoin is primarily a decentralized crypto currency based on POW and has its own application as such, and the fact that you think that someone invests in something because it is beautiful has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

Are you familiar with the tweet that Jack Dorsey sold for $2.9 million as NTF, and today its price is 99% lower?

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2022/04/14/why-jack-dorseys-first-tweet-nft-plummeted-99-in-value-in-a-year/

In December 2020, Jack Dorsey created a non-fungible token (NFT) out of his first-ever Twitter post. He turned a static image of a five-word tweet into a digital file stored on a blockchain, and voila, an NFT was born. A few months later, the image sold for a stunning $2.9 million. Yet in an auction this past week, no one bid more than $280 for it. And even current bids on OpenSea only amount to about $10,000, a 99% drop in value.

I did not notice the quote has the source hehe.

Elliptic? Why would you be afraid to mention it and be told that you are promoting it if you mentioned it? Is Elliptic a bad service or good service? It is not bad, I reckon. I am only curious why you did not like to mention it hehehe.

Did I say that I considerered bitcoin and NFT as similar technologies? I did not say it. I only said that there are similarities in their markets because they are based on supply and demand like all of markets. They get their value from speculative value. Nothing wrong with this.

Yes, I know that NFT. Does it make all NFTs and Defi protocols that make it easier to swap NFTs considered also scams? If dogecoin dumped 99%, does it make all of the cryptospace a scam?

Also, what is your defininition of a scam? Michael Saylor talked in a video when bitcoin was more than $50k. He said that we should mortgage our homes and buy bitcoin. If many people listened, they would presently be paying interest rates and their investments would be down more than 50%. Does this make Michael Saylor a scammer? My answer is no, however, this is only my opinion.

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Quote from: BambiDx on September 22, 2022, 06:18:30 AM

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/jpmorgan-jamie-dimon-bitcoin-crypto-blockchain-regulation-crime-ponzi-scheme-2022-9

"I'm a major skeptic of crypto tokens, which you call currency, like bitcoin," the JPMorgan CEO told the House Financial Services Committee on Wednesday.
"They are decentralized Ponzi schemes, and the notion that it's good for anybody is unbelievable," Dimon added during the hearing, which centered on holding America's biggest banks accountable.
"We are a big user of blockchain," he said, highlighting the existence of a JPMorgan coin that can be exchanged for dollars at a fixed rate. "It can be moved just the way cryptocurrencies can be moved — stable value, very low cost."

I didn't expect less from him. As the CEO of a large bank, I find it highly unlikely that he will praise a system that is directly competitive and that promotes better change than his model proposes. In the end he is a competitor and will hardly praise his opponent.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 27, 2022, 07:46:29 PM

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/19/over-10-billion-lost-to-defi-scams-and-thefts-in-2021.html

Overall losses caused by DeFi exploits have totaled $12 billion so far in 2021, according to a report from xxx.
Fraud and theft accounted for $10.5 billion of that sum — a sevenfold increase from last year.
DeFi, or decentralized finance, products aim to replicate traditional financial services using blockchain.

Also, share the source of the article, I would like to read it. The article really said according to a report from xxx?

Are you so blinded by your persistent repetition (and even posting links) of something that has nothing to do with Bitcoin that you don't see that the link to the content is above the part I quoted? I have intentionally removed the name of the company that did the analysis because I don't want to promote anyone.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 27, 2022, 07:46:29 PM

If someone wants to buy an NFT because he thinks it is beautiful for him and also speculates that there will be more value to sell it in the future and in a market that says what the fair market value is presently, do you not think that this is very much similar to bitcoin or any market?

You live in the belief that NTF and Bitcoin are something similar, but I will never accept that someone equates these two technologies and puts them in the same category. Bitcoin is primarily a decentralized crypto currency based on POW and has its own application as such, and the fact that you think that someone invests in something because it is beautiful has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

Are you familiar with the tweet that Jack Dorsey sold for $2.9 million as NTF, and today its price is 99% lower?

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2022/04/14/why-jack-dorseys-first-tweet-nft-plummeted-99-in-value-in-a-year/

In December 2020, Jack Dorsey created a non-fungible token (NFT) out of his first-ever Twitter post. He turned a static image of a five-word tweet into a digital file stored on a blockchain, and voila, an NFT was born. A few months later, the image sold for a stunning $2.9 million. Yet in an auction this past week, no one bid more than $280 for it. And even current bids on OpenSea only amount to about $10,000, a 99% drop in value.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Lucius on September 27, 2022, 05:22:37 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 26, 2022, 07:58:14 PM

~snip~

You're shaking your head too much, and that's because of things that have already been proven negative for the majority of naive believers who, like you, are now comparing some famous art picture with the fact that some kid got rich selling pictures of himself in front of a computer as NTF? According to some analyses, Defi caused a loss of over $10 billion in 2021 alone, and for me that is a relatively large amount - surely nothing less will happen in 2022 as well.

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/19/over-10-billion-lost-to-defi-scams-and-thefts-in-2021.html

Overall losses caused by DeFi exploits have totaled $12 billion so far in 2021, according to a report from xxx.
Fraud and theft accounted for $10.5 billion of that sum — a sevenfold increase from last year.
DeFi, or decentralized finance, products aim to replicate traditional financial services using blockchain.

You can continue telling fairy tales about what people should invest in if they want to get rich in the next bull run, but don't talk nonsense that this bull run will be caused by the fact that after 10 years someone will realize that NTF is something worth investing in.

If someone wants to buy an NFT because he thinks it is beautiful for him and also speculates that there will be more value to sell it in the future and in a market that says what the fair market value is presently, do you not think that this is very much similar to bitcoin or any market?

Define what a scam is because anything that is not bitcoin is a scam for much of the people who cannot accept that the cryptospace has become not only about bitcoin.

Are these NFT Defi protocols scams?

https://jpegd.io/
https://sudoswap.xyz/

Are Uniswap and Cakeswap scams? They did not scam anyone. Those protocols are working and make swapping without KYC much easier.

In any case, we cannot continue arguing if I do not know what is your definition of a scam.

Also, share the source of the article, I would like to read it. The article really said according to a report from xxx?

coolcoinz

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on September 26, 2022, 04:53:12 AM

And yet again all crypto twitter, news and forum(s) talk again again Dimon and JP Morgan. I will call this a successful advertising campaign.

Didn't Dimon say not long after the "i was wrong about Bitcoin" that he still doesn't like nor trust Bitcoin? And then what you guys expect? For him it's just a tool to make more fiat; it has always been. Then why would you expect he would spend a second understand Bitcoin? Do you think that he cares that what he tells is utter stupid? No; his audience doesn't know (nor cares) that either.
Only the Bitcoiners will care and those will.. just help him with further advertising.

Dimon lost his credibility long time ago when he was attacking bitcoin and publicly said that he'd fire any employee caught trading bitcoin. Then a year later the news came out that blockchain activity pointed to JP actively trading bitcoin for months and Jamie said in an interview that although he doesn't like Bitcoin his daughter has some of it and is trading. Than, later when bitcoin was in a bull market he said it's not a scam and he was wrong.

If you look at the timing of his tweets he always attacks it during the bear market like he's kicking a dead horse. I bet you he or some of his rich friends are buying right now and he wants to help them by making these accusations, but the market doesn't care about his opinions anymore.

Lucius

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 26, 2022, 07:58:14 PM

~snip~

You're shaking your head too much, and that's because of things that have already been proven negative for the majority of naive believers who, like you, are now comparing some famous art picture with the fact that some kid got rich selling pictures of himself in front of a computer as NTF? According to some analyses, Defi caused a loss of over $10 billion in 2021 alone, and for me that is a relatively large amount - surely nothing less will happen in 2022 as well.

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/19/over-10-billion-lost-to-defi-scams-and-thefts-in-2021.html

Overall losses caused by DeFi exploits have totaled $12 billion so far in 2021, according to a report from xxx.
Fraud and theft accounted for $10.5 billion of that sum — a sevenfold increase from last year.
DeFi, or decentralized finance, products aim to replicate traditional financial services using blockchain.

You can continue telling fairy tales about what people should invest in if they want to get rich in the next bull run, but don't talk nonsense that this bull run will be caused by the fact that after 10 years someone will realize that NTF is something worth investing in.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Lucius on September 26, 2022, 04:45:15 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2022, 09:03:28 PM

~snip~
I am telling everyone that the cataysts for the next pump of the next bull market might be around NFT-Defi projects. They are very low market capitalized projects with much potential to increase. This is speculation and I speculate that the next storylines will be around NFTs.

As far as I was able to read, the history of NTF goes back to 2012, although they only started to be popular in 2017 - which means that a lot of time has passed, and accordingly they had their chance in 2017 as well in 2021. Honestly, all these projects make very little and almost no sense to me, but the masses behave completely irrationally whenever someone successfully sells them an overnight success story.

If you look at how many scams are connected to Defi, and how much money people have lost on various super projects, then I would conclude that the whole industry is only harming Bitcoin - let's just remember the scandal with Terra/Luna stablecoin which caused tens of billions of dollars in damage. Let's imagine that this did not happen and that at least part of that money was invested in Bitcoin.

Maybe then people like this banker would have no reason to call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme, because the biggest trigger for such statements lies in disappointment in the market - and maybe the man simply lost a lot of money and is now telling a classic story like all the other losers.

If you are correct in your argument then anything that are works of art that are valued by their owners and a market willing to buy those works of art in fair market price would also not make sense to you. It is also head shaking that just because NFTs have existed since 2012, it should not be successful and not grow to more than a $100 billion market?

There are many scams, yes, and scams that are not only in Defi. They are in all of the cryptospace. Also, what is your definition of a scam? Is this any project that is not bitcoin a scam? From this argument then we are no better than Jaime Dimon.

Another head shaking comment to blame other projects because there are mainstream investors and bankers like Jaime Dimon who call bitcoin a ponzi. They will call it a ponzi because it does not create any value and to get profit from it, the holder must wait for new money to come in then sell it to another buyer for a higher price.

NeuroticFish

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And yet again all crypto twitter, news and forum(s) talk again again Dimon and JP Morgan. I will call this a successful advertising campaign.

Didn't Dimon say not long after the "i was wrong about Bitcoin" that he still doesn't like nor trust Bitcoin? And then what you guys expect? For him it's just a tool to make more fiat; it has always been. Then why would you expect he would spend a second understand Bitcoin? Do you think that he cares that what he tells is utter stupid? No; his audience doesn't know (nor cares) that either.
Only the Bitcoiners will care and those will.. just help him with further advertising.

Lucius

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2022, 09:03:28 PM

~snip~
I am telling everyone that the cataysts for the next pump of the next bull market might be around NFT-Defi projects. They are very low market capitalized projects with much potential to increase. This is speculation and I speculate that the next storylines will be around NFTs.

As far as I was able to read, the history of NTF goes back to 2012, although they only started to be popular in 2017 - which means that a lot of time has passed, and accordingly they had their chance in 2017 as well in 2021. Honestly, all these projects make very little and almost no sense to me, but the masses behave completely irrationally whenever someone successfully sells them an overnight success story.

If you look at how many scams are connected to Defi, and how much money people have lost on various super projects, then I would conclude that the whole industry is only harming Bitcoin - let's just remember the scandal with Terra/Luna stablecoin which caused tens of billions of dollars in damage. Let's imagine that this did not happen and that at least part of that money was invested in Bitcoin.

Maybe then people like this banker would have no reason to call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme, because the biggest trigger for such statements lies in disappointment in the market - and maybe the man simply lost a lot of money and is now telling a classic story like all the other losers.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Lucius on September 25, 2022, 05:23:10 AM

People who worry about what bankers and various rich people are talking about Bitcoin have a big problem in life - because what does it matter that some banker is talking nonsense? I personally didn't care what that banker thought 5 years ago, and I don't care even less what he thinks today, just as I don't care what Buffett, Gates or Mr. Mars think about the same thing.

@bbc.reporter, I am surprised that you are promoting something that is still the source of a huge amount of scams today, and in the future there will be even more. Who else got rich in such a safe way that you suggest? Maybe 1% or 2% of those who are behind everything and sell fake stories everywhere, drawing even more followers into their game...

They are not scams or they appear not to be scams when I did my research hehehe. They are projects that are very experimental much like bitcoin during 2012 when much of the people did not know it would be more than $1000. I am also not telling everyone that Jpegd and Sudoswap will be as successful as bitcoin. I am telling everyone that the cataysts for the next pump of the next bull market might be around NFT-Defi projects. They are very low market capitalized projects with much potential to increase. This is speculation and I speculate that the next storylines will be around NFTs.

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Quote from: DooMAD on September 23, 2022, 09:20:49 AM

He only does this because he knows he couldn't say anything defamatory like that about his other competition. They'd sue him. But because Bitcoin has no centralised entity in charge, he can spout whatever deranged nonsense he likes and no one can take him to court for it.

Yup, that's it. If bitcoin adoption reaches a high enough level, crypto will seriously compete with traditional banks. Chase is heavily invested in the traditional banking system, and it is not trivial for them to get that same market share in the various crypto markets (lending, deposits, etc.). He is trying to talk it down in order to reduce the chances that bitcoin will seriously compete with banks.

Quote from: DaveF on September 23, 2022, 08:12:11 AM

Quote from: SFR10 on September 23, 2022, 04:48:42 AM

So all of this nonsense was for promoting their own shitcoin and he forgot to mention they can easily freeze/confiscate it!

He also left out the fact that JPM offers BTC / crypto to is clients.
Makes you wonder if that leaves them open to a big chunk of liability if something bad happens.

i.e. DaveF is a JPM client, he invests in BTC, Jamie Dimon says it's a Ponzi, BTC drops a lot, DaveF looses money when he sells, then calls lawyer saying JPM let me trade in something they said was a Ponzi, I would like to sue them now......

May not win, but enough people file enough lawsuits about it, that could become a PR nightmare.

-Dave

I am sure that company lawyers reviewed his proposed statements, and answers to likely questions that he would be asked in the hearing, and "approved" the answers as not being something that would cause legal liability to Chase.

Bitcoin isn't a ponzi scheme, so there is no chance that Chase customers could lose money in a manner similar to someone investing in a ponzi.

Lucius

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People who worry about what bankers and various rich people are talking about Bitcoin have a big problem in life - because what does it matter that some banker is talking nonsense? I personally didn't care what that banker thought 5 years ago, and I don't care even less what he thinks today, just as I don't care what Buffett, Gates or Mr. Mars think about the same thing.

@bbc.reporter, I am surprised that you are promoting something that is still the source of a huge amount of scams today, and in the future there will be even more. Who else got rich in such a safe way that you suggest? Maybe 1% or 2% of those who are behind everything and sell fake stories everywhere, drawing even more followers into their game...

bbc.reporter

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@electronicash. I would not speculate or think that their opposition against the cryptospace is because they hate it. They are hating it because they do not understand it and much of this not understanding is in Defi and NFT. I reckon if you want to be rich in the next bull market, invest in projects similar to Jpegd and Sudoswap. The storyline will be about NFT lending and NFT direct swapping through Defi.

electronicash

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the message is that blockchain and tokens are fine and good to use if its issued by JPMorgan. if its not then its not good. this is Jamie who had been trolling around Bitcoin for a long time. Jamie is just like the bankster who are losing influence Charlie Munger and Buffet. these are the biggest investors who forgot to update. so focused to fud the biggest threat.

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Quote from: DooMAD on September 22, 2022, 06:48:22 AM

Translation: Owner of a walled garden with gatekeepers not a fan of open and permissionless systems that pose a threat to their business model.

So not really news. Just a mouthpiece expelling hot air.

Agreed. It is head shaking why until know some people think this is news hehe. Jamie Dimon has declared that bitcoin would only be valuable in a dystopian world, he also said that he will fire any JPMorgan employee if they are trading bitcoin. However, last year JPMorgan gave their clients access to 6 cryptofunds hehehe.

With little fanfare, JPMorgan Chase has started giving its wealth management clients access to six crypto funds in the past month.

Source https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/bitcoin-jpmorgan-led-by-jamie-dimon-quietly-unveils-access-to-a-half-dozen-crypto-funds.html

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Quote from: DooMAD on September 22, 2022, 06:48:22 AM

Translation: Owner of a walled garden with gatekeepers not a fan of open and permissionless systems that pose a threat to their business model.

So not really news. Just a mouthpiece expelling hot air.

Hahaha lol i actually want to tell something like this.

or in the back he creating the fud so he can actually buy the crypto at the dip.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

He only does this because he knows he couldn't say anything defamatory like that about his other competition. They'd sue him. But because Bitcoin has no centralised entity in charge, he can spout whatever deranged nonsense he likes and no one can take him to court for it.

That, and he probably thinks the best defence is a good offence. It was a hearing about holding banks accountable, after all. It's not surprising he wants to deflect attention away from all the myriad things his company have done wrong:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/17/jpmorgan-agrees-to-125-million-fine-for-letting-employees-use-whatsapp-to-evade-regulators.html
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/jpmorgan-chase-bank-na-fined-%C2%A3137610000-serious-failings-relating-its-chief
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/23/jpmorgan-to-pay-almost-1-billion-fine-to-resolve-us-investigation-into-trading-practices.html
https://www.dividend.com/dividend-education/a-brief-history-of-jp-morgans-massive-fines-jpm/

Yeah, it's unbelievable anyone could benefit from Bitcoin, given that banksters are soooooooo trustworthy. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: SFR10 on September 23, 2022, 04:48:42 AM

So all of this nonsense was for promoting their own shitcoin and he forgot to mention they can easily freeze/confiscate it!

He also left out the fact that JPM offers BTC / crypto to is clients.
Makes you wonder if that leaves them open to a big chunk of liability if something bad happens.

i.e. DaveF is a JPM client, he invests in BTC, Jamie Dimon says it's a Ponzi, BTC drops a lot, DaveF looses money when he sells, then calls lawyer saying JPM let me trade in something they said was a Ponzi, I would like to sue them now......

May not win, but enough people file enough lawsuits about it, that could become a PR nightmare.

-Dave

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Quote from: BambiDx on September 22, 2022, 06:18:30 AM

"I'm a major skeptic of crypto tokens, which you call currency, like bitcoin," the JPMorgan CEO

So that clown is implying in some way that Bitcoin is built on top of an existing blockchain, as opposed to its own Roll Eyes

Quote from: BambiDx on September 22, 2022, 06:18:30 AM

"They are decentralized Ponzi schemes,

Just because there are a bunch of scammers that utilize some of its infrastructures, it doesn't mean the coin itself should be labeled in the same way ^[SMH]!

Quote from: BambiDx on September 22, 2022, 06:18:30 AM
"We are a big user of blockchain," he said, highlighting the existence of a JPMorgan coin that can be exchanged for dollars at a fixed rate. "It can be moved just the way cryptocurrencies can be moved — stable value, very low cost."
So all of this nonsense was for promoting their own shitcoin and he forgot to mention they can easily freeze/confiscate it!

Topic: [2022-09-22] JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon slammed crypto and called BTC Ponzi Scheme (Read 441 times)